Prices on used boats
 

Paul L wrote:
I like your analysis on new boats. Makes sense that they will increase in
price, beyond inflation, as demand/volume goes down. There doesn't seem to
be any great 'productivity' gains being applied to building new boats that
would drive the prices down like desktop PCs.

The market for boats is miniscule compared to the market for PCs and
cars...there are only 12 million registrered boats in the whole
country...not very many in a population of 300 million. But the cost of
building 'em is even higher than the costs of building cars and PCs.
That gives boat builders on two choices: charge more for 'em, or go out
of business--which a lot of have done. 90% of the names today belong to
companies who bought little more than the rights to put those names on
their boats...Cape Dory, Chris Craft (now owned by a UK company),
Trojan, Carver, Bertram, just to name a few. Pearson is gone
altogether...so is Columbia, California and at least a dozen more.

That's why the favorite joke among boat builders is, "How do you make a
million $$ in the boat business? Start with $2 million and get out quick!"

Proucdtion has already been
moved overseas. So what does this really mean for the used boat market? Less
new boats coming on the market, prices go up, less overall demand, prices go
down. ???

Used boat prices are tied to the economy....the minute it starts to get
soft, people start unloading non-essentials, flooding the market,
driving price down. When it's strong, people buy non-essentials like
boats...no glut, higher prices. However, unlike the real estate market,
boat prices never get ridiculously high, they only recover to
normal--adjusted for inflation--for age and condition. They can,
however, get ridiculously low in bad times. Great for people who have
cash and want to buy...not so great if you have a boat and have to sell.

Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327

http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

Prices on used boats
 

"Skip Gundlach" wrote in message
nk.net...
A while back there were several threads on values of used boats. It was
the
strong assertion of various posters that boats under 45' and of mature age
would be virtually worthless - to the effect that whatever you bought it
for, when you went to sell it, it would be worth half that.

I'm of very mixed mind on this matter, as I've found just the opposite.
Any
of you following my search know that I'm looking at that type of boat, and
in the 'do you know this boat' thread, I've received several replies which
have exposed us to boats we'd not known about.

In an effort to get to know these, all very minimally available in the
usual
YachtWorld universe, I've done a lot of searching, and unearthed various
reviews from '95 to '99 or so. Most of them were helpful in understanding
the type of boat, but very tellingly, and the point of this post, they
also
had "well equipped and good examples of this boat's selling prices range"s
quoted which were *under* any I'd found available today.

That suggests to me that either Cruising World, Good Old Boat, and the
like,
are badly misinformed (at the time) or that prices are actually rising,
rather than falling.

That's good news as a trend for when we eventually go to sell our boat
(presumably more than 20 years down the road, so I'm certain that the
20-30
year old boat we'll buy will be priced exclusively on condition and
equipment, the full normal depreciation having been achieved some time
before). I've even seen some of the boats we've been looking at in real
time (current experience) have price increases, and in one particular
case,
selling at the prior asking price. The bad news is the suggestion that
it's
going to cost more currently than, say, 4-8 years ago, for the same boat
type.

What's been everyone else' experience?? If we don't find a boat soon,
will
it cost us 10%, or something bigger, more, later?

L8R

Skip and Lydia, still looking, and appreciative of leads already and yet
to
be received!


I have been following your posts because I too have been looking to buy. My
feeling is that you will never find what you want because you do not
understand that all boats are a compromise, especially when you are looking
with limited funds, and you don't want to compromise. However, I also
understand the headroom issue. It is the only time when it seems to be
advantageous for me to be short. Maybe you should take up basketball ;-)

I have been looking at used boats but usually I get turned off by the
condition of the vessels. I just don't have the time or ambition to be
fixing somebody else's problems.

The only thing harder to do than buy a decent boat is to try and sell one.
Notice how long some of them have been on the market.

I do not see prices of used boats going up, but that is just my unscientific
survey over the last year or so.

It also seems like that after about 5 years, the boats stop depreciating at
a rapid pace, and the salt hasn't corroded everything yet.

Another thing, if you buy a boat that is not very well known, you will have
more trouble selling it - no matter how nice it is. People buy brands that
they know. Has to be the reason why certain brands sell - they are known -
and you know which ones I mean, because they are not very well done.

BTW, have you noticed that almost all of the sail boat makers are now
making power boats? Maybe we need another oil crisis.

Good luck Captain.

Prices on used boats
 

Hi, Bill, and group,

"Bill" wrote in message
...

I have been following your posts because I too have been looking to buy.
My
feeling is that you will never find what you want because you do not
understand that all boats are a compromise, especially when you are
looking
with limited funds, and you don't want to compromise. However, I also
understand the headroom issue. It is the only time when it seems to be
advantageous for me to be short. Maybe you should take up basketball ;-)

Heh. Too short for basketball, too tall for boats. Actually, we're quite
prepared to make lots of compromises. However, compromises which make us
miserable to be in the boat are self-defeating. As to me, if I could be
self-defeeting, I'd be a lot shorter, and we'd already be aboard! :{))

The good news is that we've received several leads to boats we didn't
previously know about, and at least some of them appear as though they'd
work. I'm going to be looking at some of them in the next round of search,
most likely late October or early November.

I have been looking at used boats but usually I get turned off by the
condition of the vessels. I just don't have the time or ambition to be
fixing somebody else's problems.

Interestingly, to us, there have been quite a few *very* nice boats in a
reasonable price range (well, of course, reasonable is entirely in the realm
of the holder's purse) - I just couldn't fit aboard. Natcherly, if one
expects to have a 'perfect' boat, it would have to be new, and we were not
the least misled about that going in. Recall that we did two 4th-tier
charters specifically for the purpose of getting acquainted with poorly
maintained elderly boats... But, back to the top of the para, if you have
the same tastes as we, and a similar budget, I can point you to lots of
suitable boats.

The only thing harder to do than buy a decent boat is to try and sell one.
Notice how long some of them have been on the market.

That's another conundrum. It appears that unless there's a distress
situation (with an accompanying major price adjustment, and, often, a
distinct bargain), an awful lot of boats remain unsold for extended periods
of time. OTOH, there are those which come and go almost immediately.

I do not see prices of used boats going up, but that is just my
unscientific
survey over the last year or so.

It also seems like that after about 5 years, the boats stop depreciating
at
a rapid pace, and the salt hasn't corroded everything yet.

In our case, we'll be very surprised if we find anything newer than 15, and
more likely 20, years old which will fit our budget. We've found that most
of the ones we're able to consider are pretty well packed into the same
price range per type. The bigger and newer they get, the wider that range
seems to be, however.

Another thing, if you buy a boat that is not very well known, you will
have
more trouble selling it - no matter how nice it is. People buy brands that
they know. Has to be the reason why certain brands sell - they are known -
and you know which ones I mean, because they are not very well done.

Indeed - however, it's those in which the upward price movement has been
noted (mostly because we didn't research far enough [we didn't have to, in
order to find out about the type] into better known models - it may well be
the case that had we researched older articles, the better known models
would have had that phenomenon as well) - which gives us comfort.
Realistically, however, we'll either love it, and spend most - if not all -
the rest of our lives on it, or get right off. If the former, we'll have
gotten our money's worth out of it; if the latter, we'll have a brokerage
experience tax to move back ashore...

BTW, have you noticed that almost all of the sail boat makers are now
making power boats? Maybe we need another oil crisis.

That was true in the time of the generation of boats we're looking at, too.
Some of them were motor sailors, but there were others which were motor
yachts (from which the motor sailors' hulls sometimes were pulled).
Different strokes for Different Folks, and all that.

Good luck Captain.

:{)) Thanks. I'm optimistic, and Lydia's stopped gnawing at the second
knuckle and started whining ("go buy that boat, right now, OK??"), so we're
getting there, slowly but surely.

L8R

Skip and Lydia

Prices on used boats
 

"Skip Gundlach"
I hate to be the one to break the news to you, but all the good well
maintained boats in this part of the world are being bought up. Brokers are
crying for listings of GOOD boats that will sell. I sold mine for full
asking price and could have gotten 5k more. A friend of mine put his Oyster
45 on the market and has had two offers in less than a month. Low balling
boats is soon to be a thing of the past and watch for a dramatic price
increase in good used boat prices. There are still the project boats that
need total restoration but owners of these junkers will start asking more
because they see the good boats getting top dollar and they are to stupid to
see that theirs is junk.
My advice is to bite the bullet and buy that MarkII and get started or some
boat that meet 80% of your dream boat. I have watched you in your efforts
for over a year and I think that if you keep this up,all the boats will be
$10,000 less than you are willing to pay, and you will never get started
cruising.
Good Luck
Bruce

Prices on used boats
 

Bruce wrote:

... Low balling boats is soon to be a thing of the past and watch for a dramatic price
increase in good used boat prices. ...

I hope you're right since I already own a boat. IMHO much depends on the
stock markets which in turn control 401Ks and other investment funds. I
was unwilling to exhaust my savings or sign up for payments after the
near crash following Bush's election knocked 25% out of my retirement
savings. Today, I'd have bought/financed a newer, bigger boat that
needed less work - tho I'm quite pleased with our old Catalina 30 - or
even paid the asking price for it instead of 40% less. When the DOW goes
over 10 again, just befor the election, prices will no doubt climb
accordingly. After that ... who knows?? Only thing worse than
tax-and-spend Democrats is a borrow-to-spend-more Republican.

Prices on used boats
 

I hate to be the one to break the news to you, but all the good well
maintained boats in this part of the world are being bought up. Brokers are
crying for listings of GOOD boats that will sell.

What part of the world is that? The US economy is still a shadow and there are
plenty of deals out there. Of course one rarely finds a deal through a broker.
Why just two weeks ago I met a fellow who bought a very nice C&C 37XL for just
85K. A close friend just bought a Pearson 37 for 52K. Well below market value
and a profit to be made on sale day. I see deals all of the time, but it means
taking time (and of course having time available) to walk the docks and see
what's cooking.

RB
C&C 32
NY