"Capt. JG" wrote in message ...
"sherwindu" wrote in message ...
Gee, do I have to spell everything out! My comment was directed to the concept
that boats are unsinkable, period. They said the Titanic could never sink. Get
the
analogy? I guess not.

I personally would rather take my chances on a boat that most likely will go
back
to an upright position where I have a chance of salvaging enough rigging to
continue
sailing. We are slaves to our EPIRB's to get us out of trouble. Your first
thought
when in trouble at sea is how can I recover a bad situation, not make a grab for
the
EPIRB. Of course, in the case of an upsidedown multihull, they didn't have much

of a choice.

Sherwin D.


The logical choice is to pick the most survivable situation and to recognize when a situation is becoming untenable. I suggest
that you've never been in a washing machine-style situation, where everything (as a best case) is going round and round and
everything is flying. It's not a place you would want to stay for very long. Need a dramatic account? Read Fastnet Force 10. The
mono will capsize, then right itself, perhaps a number of times, and if you're very lucky, you won't be killed or injured by the
flying debris. If you're unlucky, water will enter and the boat will right itself on the bottom.

On the other hand, if a multi capsizes, it will likely stay capsized providing a stable and likely livable place to await rescue.

No where have I seen anyone suggest that triggering an EPIRB is a first action or even third option, but neither is it necessary
to wait until the situation is unsalvagable to trigger it. When you say, "they didn't have much choice," you imply that they had
a choice at all. It's more likely that they were swept overboard before being able to get to it or below.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com


Is it not correct to have the EPIRB already on deck in a
self releasing holder? That is if it is not a personal EPIRB.

--

SeeYaa Harbin Osteen KG6URO

When American Citizens with dual citizenship pledges allegiance
to the flag, to which flag do they pledge allegiance too?

-

Harbin Osteen wrote:

Is it not correct to have the EPIRB already on deck in a
self releasing holder? That is if it is not a personal EPIRB.


Not necessarily for a catamaran - The presumption is that if the boat
flips, and anyone is left on board, they would be able to take it out
of the locker and activate it. Having it on deck increases the chance
it would be damaged, lost, or inaccessible when needed.

The fact that it was found in a locker implies that the entire crew
was on deck when it flipped. Certainly (we can hope, at least) anyone
down below would have activated it even if they were trying to escape
or rescue the others. Since this was a professional delivery team we
have to assumed they all knew where the gear was, and had discussed
various emergency scenarios.

more info:
http://www.latitude38.com/LectronicL...#anchor1085433

119 days in capsized trimaran Rose Noelle.

After four months adrift in the South Pacific in 1989, the survivors were in such relatively good health that at first their story
was disbelieved. Though upside down and half-submerged, their boat was well made. Its captain, John Glennie, a shrewd old salt, and
his three companions--including Nalepka, an Outward Bound guide and the sole American--had originally set out from New Zealand for
Tonga, and after capsizing they made living quarters in a compartment in the hull the size of a double bed with 18 inches of head-
room.

Here is a link to some audio:
http://www.lauralee.com/index.cgi?pid=3277

--

SeeYaa Harbin Osteen KG6URO

When American Citizens with dual citizenship pledges allegiance
to the flag, to which flag do they pledge allegiance too?

-

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
Harbin Osteen wrote:

Is it not correct to have the EPIRB already on deck in a
self releasing holder? That is if it is not a personal EPIRB.


Not necessarily for a catamaran - The presumption is that if the boat
flips, and anyone is left on board, they would be able to take it out of
the locker and activate it. Having it on deck increases the chance it
would be damaged, lost, or inaccessible when needed.

The fact that it was found in a locker implies that the entire crew was on
deck when it flipped. Certainly (we can hope, at least) anyone down below
would have activated it even if they were trying to escape or rescue the
others. Since this was a professional delivery team we have to assumed
they all knew where the gear was, and had discussed various emergency
scenarios.


Hmmm... I would think it should not be on deck, but rather it should be
readily accessible from the cockpit... same with monohulls... near the
companionway. Why would I want it in a distant locker?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jeff" wrote in message
. ..
more info:
http://www.latitude38.com/LectronicL...#anchor1085433


Whew.. missed that article... one crew alive after the capsize. I wonder why
that person was above deck (err... below, whatever) in such weather. The
inside must surely have been safer.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Harbin Osteen" wrote in message
...
119 days in capsized trimaran Rose Noelle.

After four months adrift in the South Pacific in 1989, the survivors were
in such relatively good health that at first their story was disbelieved.
Though upside down and half-submerged, their boat was well made. Its
captain, John Glennie, a shrewd old salt, and his three
companions--including Nalepka, an Outward Bound guide and the sole
American--had originally set out from New Zealand for Tonga, and after
capsizing they made living quarters in a compartment in the hull the size
of a double bed with 18 inches of head- room.

Here is a link to some audio:
http://www.lauralee.com/index.cgi?pid=3277

--

SeeYaa Harbin Osteen KG6URO

When American Citizens with dual citizenship pledges allegiance
to the flag, to which flag do they pledge allegiance too?


Thanks for the link.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Harbin Osteen" wrote in message
...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Bob" wrote in message
ups.com...

Capt. JG wrote:
Obviously, I don't know better than anyone else what actually happened.

Me too........

However, my guess is that they were on deck trying to get control of
the
situation (as most of us would try to do), got hit by a big wave/high
gust
combination, and went over the side either because they didn't use a
harness
or the harness broke.

Swept clean.

Counter intuitive though it might have been, they were
safer below, hove to as best as they could manage.

And if flipped, still floating it no communication with the sea.


I also don't understand why they didn't activate their EPIRB. There's
no
requirement that the boat be sinking to do so.

One crew inside. Why? maybe resting. maybe too sick to be on deck,
maybe navigator/radio. Flipped, hit head. Noody on deck any more and
only one left not able inside. Personally I like to establish a radio
check-in on the hour. Gives the USCG kid somthing to do and log. No
contact, sooner to start the search. Every minuet counts when there is
only :45 on the exposure clock. But who knows.

I'm betting we'll never know with certainty what happened.

Dead men tell no tales.


ganz @@
www.sailnow.com



A harness isn't necessarily dependent upon having a rig that standing,
although you have a good possibility of being killed by a falling rig,
one that's sweeping the boat as it goes.

Are you saying one crew was inside? That hasn't been published as far as
I know. Still, having it in a closed locker with the situation clearly
deteriorating wouldn't be right either. It should be handy. I do agree
that being in communication is a very, very good idea... if possible of
course.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com


I don't get it either about the erb being secured in a locker. If I
thought
things were getting bad, I would be holding that erb with my teeth if I
had too.

--

SeeYaa Harbin Osteen KG6URO

When American Citizens with dual citizenship pledges allegiance
to the flag, to which flag do they pledge allegiance too?


Yep... I'd have it on me at that point...


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 06:48:39 -0800, Harbin Osteen wrote:

I don't get it either about the erb being secured in a locker. If I
thought things were getting bad, I would be holding that erb with my
teeth if I had too.

They might not have thought things were that bad, until suddenly they were
capsized.

Matt O.

"Matt O'Toole" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 06:48:39 -0800, Harbin Osteen wrote:

I don't get it either about the erb being secured in a locker. If I
thought things were getting bad, I would be holding that erb with my
teeth if I had too.

They might not have thought things were that bad, until suddenly they were
capsized.

Matt O.


Maybe, but I kind of doubt it... it was pretty extreme conditions... well, I
guess we may never know.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com