Dreaming and the basics of how to start
 

"In my youth" I went half way around and back. At the helm a lot of
the way in a big USN way. "As I age" I wish to do it all the way
around. My wife and I will be in South Florida for vacation the week
of Christmas, and would like to look at ?catamarans? capable of a
circumnavigation. We would not be able to purchase before next fall,
hinging on the sale of everything we own to accomplish this dream.
Is there a polite way to view boats in the $100k to $150k range while
not feeling that we are taking advantage of some brokers time, or a
private individual's time, knowing that the boats we look at will have
been sold by then? (I also wonder if SO will be able to handle the
small quarters)

Is it realistic to think that a well equipped boat, with $100k in the
bank will last? 5?, 10?, 20 years till social security kicks in?

Looking for input, thank full for your time.

Frank and Gail.

(and is "Gail Wins" a bad name for a boat?)


--

Woodsy,
Off the Grid, Off the Road, Off my Rocker...

Dreaming and the basics of how to start
 

Woodsy wrote:
"In my youth" I went half way around and back. At the helm a lot of
the way in a big USN way. "As I age" I wish to do it all the way
around. My wife and I will be in South Florida for vacation the week
of Christmas, and would like to look at ?catamarans? capable of a
circumnavigation. We would not be able to purchase before next fall,
hinging on the sale of everything we own to accomplish this dream.
Is there a polite way to view boats in the $100k to $150k range while
not feeling that we are taking advantage of some brokers time, or a
private individual's time, knowing that the boats we look at will have
been sold by then? (I also wonder if SO will be able to handle the
small quarters)

Is it realistic to think that a well equipped boat, with $100k in the
bank will last? 5?, 10?, 20 years till social security kicks in?

There are no answers to the financial questions beyond the here and now.
Will Social Security be around in 5, 10, or 20 years? Will the
purchasing power of the dollar even remotely resemble its current level?
A $100k boat may hold its value far better than $100k in a bank.

The key issue, Frank, is whether you would go ahead with the venture
even if you thought the money wouldn't last. That makes it much easier
and probably more honest as well.


Looking for input, thank full for your time.

Frank and Gail.

(and is "Gail Wins" a bad name for a boat?)


How does Gail see that?

Good luck!

Chuck

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Dreaming and the basics of how to start
 

Woodsy wrote in
:

Is it realistic to think that a well equipped boat, with $100k in the
bank will last? 5?, 10?, 20 years till social security kicks in?


BOAT = Bring Out Another Thou$and

The only thing I know of that's more expensive is a corporate jet....(c;

If you think sailing is cheap, drop by the sailmaker's shop and ask him how
much for a new mainsail for a (put your boat manufacturer/size here).

Larry
Some sailors are afraid to unfurl 'em until it's dead calm!...others not at
all!

Dreaming and the basics of how to start
 

On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 20:12:52 -0500, chuck wrote:

Woodsy wrote:
"In my youth" I went half way around and back. At the helm a lot of
the way in a big USN way. "As I age" I wish to do it all the way
around. My wife and I will be in South Florida for vacation the week
of Christmas, and would like to look at ?catamarans? capable of a
circumnavigation. We would not be able to purchase before next fall,
hinging on the sale of everything we own to accomplish this dream.
Is there a polite way to view boats in the $100k to $150k range while
not feeling that we are taking advantage of some brokers time, or a
private individual's time, knowing that the boats we look at will have
been sold by then? (I also wonder if SO will be able to handle the
small quarters)

Is it realistic to think that a well equipped boat, with $100k in the
bank will last? 5?, 10?, 20 years till social security kicks in?

There are no answers to the financial questions beyond the here and now.
Will Social Security be around in 5, 10, or 20 years? Will the
purchasing power of the dollar even remotely resemble its current level?
A $100k boat may hold its value far better than $100k in a bank.

$100k for 20 years is $416/month (no interest calc), seems slim and un
realistic. $2500 for 40 months more like it. We are just looking at
doing it "young" vs too old, perhaps, to enjoy it. If all went well,
retirement fund and SS and 401K is new boat (today's $) with no
worries about refit and fun, although the fun may be less!


The key issue, Frank, is whether you would go ahead with the venture
even if you thought the money wouldn't last. That makes it much easier
and probably more honest as well.

I want to, and the pressure from SO is mounting. I am a stick in the
mud! She is a short fuse of a redhead. I have traveled and had
adventures up till about 10 years ago, she has not. We planed, (well I
did) this at retirement with the farm to come back to if it got to
much, or health reasons, or just a good place to croak. Going now is
burnt bridges and no bailout other than to return to the work force at
an age where retirement should be in the sights.



Looking for input, thank full for your time.

Frank and Gail.

(and is "Gail Wins" a bad name for a boat?)


How does Gail see that?

It was her idea! (damn the torpedo's, full speed ahead)


Good luck!

Chuck

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--

Woodsy,
Off the Grid, Off the Road, Off my Rocker...

Dreaming and the basics of how to start
 

On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 20:29:00 -0500, Larry wrote:

Woodsy wrote in
:

Is it realistic to think that a well equipped boat, with $100k in the
bank will last? 5?, 10?, 20 years till social security kicks in?


BOAT = Bring Out Another Thou$and

The only thing I know of that's more expensive is a corporate jet....(c;

If you think sailing is cheap, drop by the sailmaker's shop and ask him how
much for a new mainsail for a (put your boat manufacturer/size here).


That's what is bugging me, I do not see it lasting. 6 months of
constant research and dreaming and trying to see how to make it work
as an evening hobby, lurking here. $5k on rigging every 5 years at a
minimum? Hot glue and patches, run it till the mast comes off, then
jump in and swim? The time I spent in weight test and rigging, and the
sail loft may help, but also enforce the reality of what happens when
something goes wrong with said rigging!

That monster cat on yachtworld, a junk rig, watermaker, and a couple
of fishing poles! who needs all those fancy expensive accessories.

Larry
Some sailors are afraid to unfurl 'em until it's dead calm!...others not at
all!
--

Woodsy,
Off the Grid, Off the Road, Off my Rocker...

Dreaming and the basics of how to start
 

Frank,

There is a thread over on the Sailnet.com forum relevant to your questions.

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/cruisi...inancials.html

The thread sort of wanders around, as they tend to do, but does
eventually come back to the question. Also, I found it just plain
interesting and funny at times. I recommend it.

Howard


Woodsy wrote:
"In my youth" I went half way around and back. At the helm a lot of
the way in a big USN way. "As I age" I wish to do it all the way
around. My wife and I will be in South Florida for vacation the week
of Christmas, and would like to look at ?catamarans? capable of a
circumnavigation. We would not be able to purchase before next fall,
hinging on the sale of everything we own to accomplish this dream.
Is there a polite way to view boats in the $100k to $150k range while
not feeling that we are taking advantage of some brokers time, or a
private individual's time, knowing that the boats we look at will have
been sold by then? (I also wonder if SO will be able to handle the
small quarters)

Is it realistic to think that a well equipped boat, with $100k in the
bank will last? 5?, 10?, 20 years till social security kicks in?

Looking for input, thank full for your time.

Frank and Gail.

(and is "Gail Wins" a bad name for a boat?)

Dreaming and the basics of how to start
 

Woodsy wrote:
"In my youth" I went half way around and back. At the helm a lot of
the way in a big USN way. "As I age" I wish to do it all the way
around. My wife and I will be in South Florida for vacation the week
of Christmas, and would like to look at ?catamarans? capable of a
circumnavigation. We would not be able to purchase before next fall,
hinging on the sale of everything we own to accomplish this dream.
Is there a polite way to view boats in the $100k to $150k range while
not feeling that we are taking advantage of some brokers time, or a
private individual's time, knowing that the boats we look at will have
been sold by then? (I also wonder if SO will be able to handle the
small quarters)

Is it realistic to think that a well equipped boat, with $100k in the
bank will last? 5?, 10?, 20 years till social security kicks in?

Looking for input, thank full for your time.

A month or two ago, Cruising World did an analysis of three ways to
cruise from frugal to luxo. I may be wrong, but that was also all
inclusive. Find and read that issue for all the info on probable costs.

There is NOTHING preventing you from doing small work to earn $$ on the
way. By doing little works you learn more about the communities you
visit than if you just tourist it. Some cruisers have skills they market
to other cruisers like if you are a reefer tech your future is MADE on
the water. Do not count on employment overseas, but it's easy in the US.
You can market your skills to cruisers anywhere.

Make it clear to the brokers that you are future buyers. Establish a
relationship with a broker who you learn to like and then when you are
ready to buy, contact that broker, say what you want, and make him part
of the deal. That way both of you are happy and you aren't exploiting
the guy now.

You will definitely want a broker on your side when you buy for a
variety of reasons I expect you know. If not, then repost.

-paul

Dreaming and the basics of how to start
 

Check out the following link, as it appears to have possible answers to your
questions, both in terms of expenses and type of boat. www.bumfuzzle.com

Dreaming and the basics of how to start
 

Paul Cassel wrote:
Woodsy wrote:
"In my youth" I went half way around and back. At the helm a lot of
the way in a big USN way. "As I age" I wish to do it all the way
around. My wife and I will be in South Florida for vacation the week
of Christmas, and would like to look at ?catamarans? capable of a
circumnavigation. We would not be able to purchase before next fall,
hinging on the sale of everything we own to accomplish this dream.
Is there a polite way to view boats in the $100k to $150k range while
not feeling that we are taking advantage of some brokers time, or a
private individual's time, knowing that the boats we look at will have
been sold by then? (I also wonder if SO will be able to handle the
small quarters)

Is it realistic to think that a well equipped boat, with $100k in the
bank will last? 5?, 10?, 20 years till social security kicks in?

Looking for input, thank full for your time.

A month or two ago, Cruising World did an analysis of three ways to
cruise from frugal to luxo. I may be wrong, but that was also all
inclusive. Find and read that issue for all the info on probable costs.

There is NOTHING preventing you from doing small work to earn $$ on the
way. By doing little works you learn more about the communities you
visit than if you just tourist it. Some cruisers have skills they market
to other cruisers like if you are a reefer tech your future is MADE on
the water. Do not count on employment overseas, but it's easy in the US.
You can market your skills to cruisers anywhere.

Make it clear to the brokers that you are future buyers. Establish a
relationship with a broker who you learn to like and then when you are
ready to buy, contact that broker, say what you want, and make him part
of the deal. That way both of you are happy and you aren't exploiting
the guy now.

You will definitely want a broker on your side when you buy for a
variety of reasons I expect you know. If not, then repost.

-paul

Another key issue is the extent to which you can/will do your own
maintenance work. Will you scrape the bottom, rebuild the head, install
the SSB, etc. or will you pay to have that work done? Sort of the
difference between a laid-back vacation and a scraped-knuckle lifestyle.
It might be good to actually do a big chunk of that work before
deciding. It's not so much rocket science as it is savvy. I know my own
life is probably a little shorter due to worrying (needlessly, it turned
out) while at sea that repairs I did weren't done quite the way they
should have been. In my case, that was probably the strongest argument
for having a pro do the work. Some folks will work so hard for
perfection that they never leave their slip: its easier.

Chuck

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Dreaming and the basics of how to start
 

If you intend to live at a level above a wharf rat a $100,000 will last less
than three years. I'm a full time liveaboard cruiser and I have spent
$51,000 year to date just on basics and boat expenses I'm also paying for a
son at an expensive college. I worked hard and invested well years ago and
have an investment income in excess of what I spend annually.


I have a fully equipped 2003 Beneteau 473 sailboat with extensive navigation
and communication gear, water maker, genset, RIB, Satellite TV, Phone,
Internet. Some simple figures on an annual basis:


Twenty Year loan for boat (After over $125K down payment): $16,008

Annual Insurance agreed hull, with liveaboard coverage, extended cruising
area: $3,500

Health Insurance, Blue Cross Blue Shield (Family coverage to include college
student son): $5,100

Fuel Charges (Average) @ $2.50 per gallon: 900 * 2.50 = $2,250

Annual Maintenance Budget( Zincs, Synthetic Oil, filters, bottom paint (Haul
out every 2 years): $1,500

Annual Repair Budget: $7,000

Mooring charges (60 days at $35) $2,100

Transient slip charges (30 days at $125): $3,750

That comes to $41,208 and you haven't eaten, bought clothes, rented a car,
taken a cab. . . . .nothing. Let's say you can eat for $100 a week. That
brings us up to $47,000.


I'll get off my soap box now but too many people think they can do this on
$100,000 for the rest of their life. If you only have two years to live then
you are correct. I also see a lot of people writing that "real cruisers"
don't go to marinas or get mooring balls - They anchor out!! I've done this
for eight years and I won't make any apologies, I live well. If it is rough,
hot, raining, high winds and/or lightening and I'm near a port with nice
floating docks and transportation to a good restaurant then that is where
I'm heading. That is what having a larger budget for doing this allows.
Forgive me but owning a large boat and sailing around the world for years is
not a God given right. First you have to work and earn enough to be able to
do this or have a job that allows you to work while you are cruising. You
can see the sunken derelicts all along the ICW and in many anchorages and
harbors around the world of people that tried to do this without sufficient
funds.

Cap'n Ric

S/V Sezaneh

Dreaming and the basics of how to start
 

Cap'n Ric ,, your budget is not everyone's budget. While I agree cruising
isn't as cheap as some think, many are off cruising for far less than you
spend.

Are they as comfortable as you? Probably not. Do they have as nice a boat
as yours? Probably not, make that deffinitely not.

But they are traveling about in their sailboat.

Does the poster plan on buying the boat and then living on the income from a
$100,000 portfolio? That would only give him about $10,000 per year to live
on. If the boat is paid for, and all up to date, with a part time job I
think a single could do this. A couple can do it even easier. Two people
working part time, with a home paid for, with a guarantee of $10,000 coming
in .. that might work.

If each worked part time and they both earn around $12,000 per year. That
is $24,000 plus the $10,000 from investment .. might work.

They would need a very simple boat, live without much. I'm not sure about
the health insurance. One reason the rest of the developed world can go off
and we Americans are stuck is because of our health care system. On the one
hand ( treatment, doctors, nurses, medicine ) it is the best in the world ..
and on the other hand .. the cost etc, it sucks.

There are a few books about that show how a couple can live very cheaply.

They aren't renting cars, going out the restaurants, etc though.

It is all about the choices one makes.

I think I would fall in the middle. Your budget is way more than I spend.
But, I don't want to be at the bottom end either.




"Cap'n Ric" wrote in message
news:Md1hh.2689$aD6.2375@trndny02...
If you intend to live at a level above a wharf rat a $100,000 will last
less than three years. I'm a full time liveaboard cruiser and I have spent
$51,000 year to date just on basics and boat expenses I'm also paying for
a son at an expensive college. I worked hard and invested well years ago
and have an investment income in excess of what I spend annually.


I have a fully equipped 2003 Beneteau 473 sailboat with extensive
navigation and communication gear, water maker, genset, RIB, Satellite TV,
Phone, Internet. Some simple figures on an annual basis:


Twenty Year loan for boat (After over $125K down payment): $16,008

Annual Insurance agreed hull, with liveaboard coverage, extended cruising
area: $3,500

Health Insurance, Blue Cross Blue Shield (Family coverage to include
college student son): $5,100

Fuel Charges (Average) @ $2.50 per gallon: 900 * 2.50 = $2,250

Annual Maintenance Budget( Zincs, Synthetic Oil, filters, bottom paint
(Haul out every 2 years): $1,500

Annual Repair Budget: $7,000

Mooring charges (60 days at $35) $2,100

Transient slip charges (30 days at $125): $3,750

That comes to $41,208 and you haven't eaten, bought clothes, rented a car,
taken a cab. . . . .nothing. Let's say you can eat for $100 a week. That
brings us up to $47,000.


I'll get off my soap box now but too many people think they can do this on
$100,000 for the rest of their life. If you only have two years to live
then you are correct. I also see a lot of people writing that "real
cruisers" don't go to marinas or get mooring balls - They anchor out!!
I've done this for eight years and I won't make any apologies, I live
well. If it is rough, hot, raining, high winds and/or lightening and I'm
near a port with nice floating docks and transportation to a good
restaurant then that is where I'm heading. That is what having a larger
budget for doing this allows. Forgive me but owning a large boat and
sailing around the world for years is not a God given right. First you
have to work and earn enough to be able to do this or have a job that
allows you to work while you are cruising. You can see the sunken
derelicts all along the ICW and in many anchorages and harbors around the
world of people that tried to do this without sufficient funds.

Cap'n Ric

S/V Sezaneh

Dreaming and the basics of how to start
 

On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 03:01:16 GMT, "NE Sailboat"
wrote:

There are a few books about that show how a couple can live very cheaply.

They aren't renting cars, going out the restaurants, etc though.

It is all about the choices one makes.

Yes, and the choice is to live somewhere that resembles a floating
trailer park. Not pretty, and the towns are getting fed up. That
makes it more difficult for the rest of us who maintain our boats and
move on after a few days. This whole notion of being able to cruise
the world on the cheap is a complete myth.

Dreaming and the basics of how to start
 

Wayne ,, you are showing a rather ugly side here. Do you have something
against people who live in trailer parks?

When you stop by Dunkin Donuts, do you call the employees losers? I bet
many of them live in trailer parks.

The "towns are getting fed up" . Classic "not in my backyard" thinking.
Oh, it is ok to pay next to nothing for to the lady who drives your kids to
school, the school janitor, the guy down at Dunkins, the employee of Walmart
............

As long as you don't have to associate with these people ... and for
heaven's sake you don't want "them" anywhere near the water.


I for one would rather dock next to someone who is busting their ass at
Dunkin Donuts and has an old sailboat than some Trustfund Baby who never
worked a day in his/her life.

Don't be too critical of the sailors who are at the bottom of the docking
order.

================================================== =====
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 03:01:16 GMT, "NE Sailboat"
wrote:

There are a few books about that show how a couple can live very cheaply.

They aren't renting cars, going out the restaurants, etc though.

It is all about the choices one makes.

Yes, and the choice is to live somewhere that resembles a floating
trailer park. Not pretty, and the towns are getting fed up. That
makes it more difficult for the rest of us who maintain our boats and
move on after a few days. This whole notion of being able to cruise
the world on the cheap is a complete myth.

Dreaming and the basics of how to start
 

On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 16:23:14 GMT, "NE Sailboat"
wrote:

Don't be too critical of the sailors who are at the bottom of the docking
order.

Don't be too critical of my comments until you have been to south
Florida and seen some of what I speak.

Dreaming and the basics of how to start
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 16:23:14 GMT, "NE Sailboat"
wrote:

Don't be too critical of the sailors who are at the bottom of the docking
order.

Don't be too critical of my comments until you have been to south
Florida and seen some of what I speak.


They can't be much worse, if any, than some of the boats in LA Harbor,
Wilmington CA. But even if they are floating wrecks just barely habitable --
so? Can only the "Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous" aspirants own and live
aboard boats? I've seen perfectly maintained boats that I considered to be
uglier than sin -- shouldn't I be able to do something about them?

Not in what used to be a free country. In America today, probably so.

Dreaming and the basics of how to start
 

Wayne ,, not only have I been to south Florida, I lived there for a short
time.

And yes, there were some who I would not want near my boat.

But don't paint a broad brush .. not everybody is rolling in money and some
of the bottom dwellers are the best people on the water.

================


"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 16:23:14 GMT, "NE Sailboat"
wrote:

Don't be too critical of the sailors who are at the bottom of the docking
order.

Don't be too critical of my comments until you have been to south
Florida and seen some of what I speak.

Dreaming and the basics of how to start
 

"NE Sailboat" wrote in message
news:rSzhh.2736$JL5.1725@trndny03...
Wayne ,, not only have I been to south Florida, I lived there for a short
time.

And yes, there were some who I would not want near my boat.

But don't paint a broad brush .. not everybody is rolling in money and
some of the bottom dwellers are the best people on the water.

================

Besides, the worse the neighbor's boat looks, the better mine looks. ;-)

Dreaming and the basics of how to start
 

On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 17:04:23 GMT, "NE Sailboat"
wrote:

But don't paint a broad brush .. not everybody is rolling in money and some
of the bottom dwellers are the best people on the water.

If you want to park your boat in someone elses backyard or community
then you have an obligation to also be a good neighbor. That means
keeping your boat in respectable condition and observing a few other
social niceties. If you can do that on the cheap, great, but most
people can't. Being a good person is all well and good but not
totally relevant to whether or not you can keep your boat up, and be
regarded as an asset to the community rather than a liability.

Dreaming and the basics of how to start
 

"NE Sailboat" wrote in
news:Sfzhh.1429$Pq4.692@trndny08:

Wayne ,, you are showing a rather ugly side here. Do you have
something against people who live in trailer parks?

When you stop by Dunkin Donuts, do you call the employees losers? I
bet many of them live in trailer parks.

The "towns are getting fed up" . Classic "not in my backyard"
thinking. Oh, it is ok to pay next to nothing for to the lady who
drives your kids to school, the school janitor, the guy down at
Dunkins, the employee of Walmart ...........

As long as you don't have to associate with these people ... and for
heaven's sake you don't want "them" anywhere near the water.


I for one would rather dock next to someone who is busting their ass
at Dunkin Donuts and has an old sailboat than some Trustfund Baby who
never worked a day in his/her life.

Don't be too critical of the sailors who are at the bottom of the
docking order.


Wow, Wayne gets ugly some times. Some of us simply have no need for a
showy mortgaged mansion that drains away whatever you make. I'm always
amused that people living in houses where you can't hear the grand piano in
the drawing room back in the kitchen spend most weekends at the "floating
trailer park" living in a 1 bedroom shack with a mast sticking out of it
and telling each other how wonderful it is.

This afternoon, instead of working for more mortgage bankers, I'm screwing
off in my nasty ol' "trailer" on the riverfront across the Ashley River
from historic Magnolia Plantation enjoying the view with the door open.
It's 72F on the river at 1430. I got back from the seawall a few minutes
ago to check my email.

I don't consider me "at the bottom of the docking order" at all. I'm proud
of all who feed the bankers/doctors/lawyers/politicians working 60 hours a
week, and more power to them. But, which of us is "at the bottom" this
very instant as the nice, tropical breeze moving through the Spanish Moss-
crowned Southern Oaks in my yard is wafting those wonderful flower smells
from the gardens at Magnolia through my open doors into my "nav station" of
the Oakwood 70 dock condo? Which of us is working on his first heart
attack?....No thanks!

Gotta go, now. I'm driving my Mercedes to Eastern Buffet for a late lunch
and gotta go check the mail before the UPS man shows up with my GPS antenna
about 4:30, his usual time.

Life is great! Sorry some missed it.

I might install the Garmin into the stepvan, later...

Dreaming and the basics of how to start
 

Wayne.B wrote in
:

If you want to park your boat in someone elses backyard or community
then you have an obligation to also be a good neighbor. That means
keeping your boat in respectable condition and observing a few other
social niceties. If you can do that on the cheap, great, but most
people can't. Being a good person is all well and good but not
totally relevant to whether or not you can keep your boat up, and be
regarded as an asset to the community rather than a liability.




One of my favorite pictures I took in the FL ICW north of St Augustine is
of this great Florida Cracker family sitting on their dock in lawn chairs
watching 6 kids jumping into the ICW, screaming and yelling and having a
great time in front of their old mobile home, cluttered with old trucks,
junk and about 8 small boats, 2 of them tied to the dock. Daddy had his
beer in a coozy taking the occasional sip and Mom had a butt hangin' out of
her mouth. Both looked so content.....

Next door was a veritable Spanish-style mansion. There was a 3 car garage,
separate from the main house, a Spanish courtyard with fountain bubbling
away. A perfectly manicured-by-Mexican-Illegals putting green of a lawn
stretched from the main house to the seawall on the ICW. A beautifully-
made dock adorned the seawall, but it looked like noone had ever caught a
fish or dumped out a crab trap on its unused, unweathered surface. Of
course, "House Beautiful" had noone sitting outside enjoying the beautiful
afternoon watching the boats go by, like the next door neighbors. Their
kids must have been at the golf club with the pro spending Daddy's money.

I'll bet Doctor Wonderful would kill those Cracker kids next door if he
thought he could get away with it.....(c;

Daddy Cracker and I exchanged salutes with our coozies as we motored the
Endeavour 35 past his dock... His kids waved, then jumped off the end of
the dock, again, holding their nose....

Dreaming and the basics of how to start
 

Be careful Larry ,, Wayne wants you gone. He hates people like you. His
whole existance is threatened when someone tells him his view of the world
isn't necessarily everyone elses.


===============================
"Larry" wrote in message
...
"NE Sailboat" wrote in
news:Sfzhh.1429$Pq4.692@trndny08:

Wayne ,, you are showing a rather ugly side here. Do you have
something against people who live in trailer parks?

When you stop by Dunkin Donuts, do you call the employees losers? I
bet many of them live in trailer parks.

The "towns are getting fed up" . Classic "not in my backyard"
thinking. Oh, it is ok to pay next to nothing for to the lady who
drives your kids to school, the school janitor, the guy down at
Dunkins, the employee of Walmart ...........

As long as you don't have to associate with these people ... and for
heaven's sake you don't want "them" anywhere near the water.


I for one would rather dock next to someone who is busting their ass
at Dunkin Donuts and has an old sailboat than some Trustfund Baby who
never worked a day in his/her life.

Don't be too critical of the sailors who are at the bottom of the
docking order.


Wow, Wayne gets ugly some times. Some of us simply have no need for a
showy mortgaged mansion that drains away whatever you make. I'm always
amused that people living in houses where you can't hear the grand piano
in
the drawing room back in the kitchen spend most weekends at the "floating
trailer park" living in a 1 bedroom shack with a mast sticking out of it
and telling each other how wonderful it is.

This afternoon, instead of working for more mortgage bankers, I'm screwing
off in my nasty ol' "trailer" on the riverfront across the Ashley River
from historic Magnolia Plantation enjoying the view with the door open.
It's 72F on the river at 1430. I got back from the seawall a few minutes
ago to check my email.

I don't consider me "at the bottom of the docking order" at all. I'm
proud
of all who feed the bankers/doctors/lawyers/politicians working 60 hours a
week, and more power to them. But, which of us is "at the bottom" this
very instant as the nice, tropical breeze moving through the Spanish Moss-
crowned Southern Oaks in my yard is wafting those wonderful flower smells
from the gardens at Magnolia through my open doors into my "nav station"
of
the Oakwood 70 dock condo? Which of us is working on his first heart
attack?....No thanks!

Gotta go, now. I'm driving my Mercedes to Eastern Buffet for a late lunch
and gotta go check the mail before the UPS man shows up with my GPS
antenna
about 4:30, his usual time.

Life is great! Sorry some missed it.

I might install the Garmin into the stepvan, later...

Dreaming and the basics of how to start
 

On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 03:01:16 GMT, "NE Sailboat"
wrote:

Cap'n Ric ,, your budget is not everyone's budget. While I agree cruising
isn't as cheap as some think, many are off cruising for far less than you
spend.

Are they as comfortable as you? Probably not. Do they have as nice a boat
as yours? Probably not, make that deffinitely not.

But they are traveling about in their sailboat.

Does the poster plan on buying the boat and then living on the income from a
$100,000 portfolio? That would only give him about $10,000 per year to live
on. If the boat is paid for, and all up to date, with a part time job I
think a single could do this. A couple can do it even easier. Two people
working part time, with a home paid for, with a guarantee of $10,000 coming
in .. that might work.

The selling the homestead is the tough part, no fall back for old age.
I hoped to buy the boat out right, the 100K would have to last.
I am plumber by trade and find I can fix anything, including A/C/R.
Wife seems to think we should get a large boat, one that can take
crewed charters to make money. I cannot disagree with her, as it seems
a way to make money. (licensing aside, or as necessary)


If each worked part time and they both earn around $12,000 per year. That
is $24,000 plus the $10,000 from investment .. might work.

They would need a very simple boat, live without much. I'm not sure about
the health insurance. One reason the rest of the developed world can go off
and we Americans are stuck is because of our health care system. On the one
hand ( treatment, doctors, nurses, medicine ) it is the best in the world ..
and on the other hand .. the cost etc, it sucks.

I like the simple boat, and feel capable of maintaining anything on
it, or even on a complicated one. I look at the maintenance as a break
from boredom? Scraping the bottom, in a sheltered cove is a bad thing?

Is it unrealistic to be on the move most of the time?


There are a few books about that show how a couple can live very cheaply.

We have done very well when living cheap! (better than with disposable
income)


They aren't renting cars, going out the restaurants, etc though.

Bikes have done me well, or a moped around the world so far, and avoid
the expense and hassle of most other forms of transportation.


It is all about the choices one makes.

I think I would fall in the middle. Your budget is way more than I spend.
But, I don't want to be at the bottom end either.




"Cap'n Ric" wrote in message
news:Md1hh.2689$aD6.2375@trndny02...
If you intend to live at a level above a wharf rat a $100,000 will last
less than three years. I'm a full time liveaboard cruiser and I have spent
$51,000 year to date just on basics and boat expenses I'm also paying for
a son at an expensive college. I worked hard and invested well years ago
and have an investment income in excess of what I spend annually.


I have a fully equipped 2003 Beneteau 473 sailboat with extensive
navigation and communication gear, water maker, genset, RIB, Satellite TV,
Phone, Internet. Some simple figures on an annual basis:


Twenty Year loan for boat (After over $125K down payment): $16,008

Annual Insurance agreed hull, with liveaboard coverage, extended cruising
area: $3,500

Health Insurance, Blue Cross Blue Shield (Family coverage to include
college student son): $5,100

Fuel Charges (Average) @ $2.50 per gallon: 900 * 2.50 = $2,250

Annual Maintenance Budget( Zincs, Synthetic Oil, filters, bottom paint
(Haul out every 2 years): $1,500

Annual Repair Budget: $7,000

Mooring charges (60 days at $35) $2,100

Transient slip charges (30 days at $125): $3,750

That comes to $41,208 and you haven't eaten, bought clothes, rented a car,
taken a cab. . . . .nothing. Let's say you can eat for $100 a week. That
brings us up to $47,000.


I'll get off my soap box now but too many people think they can do this on
$100,000 for the rest of their life. If you only have two years to live
then you are correct. I also see a lot of people writing that "real
cruisers" don't go to marinas or get mooring balls - They anchor out!!
I've done this for eight years and I won't make any apologies, I live
well. If it is rough, hot, raining, high winds and/or lightening and I'm
near a port with nice floating docks and transportation to a good
restaurant then that is where I'm heading. That is what having a larger
budget for doing this allows. Forgive me but owning a large boat and
sailing around the world for years is not a God given right. First you
have to work and earn enough to be able to do this or have a job that
allows you to work while you are cruising. You can see the sunken
derelicts all along the ICW and in many anchorages and harbors around the
world of people that tried to do this without sufficient funds.

Cap'n Ric

S/V Sezaneh





--

Woodsy,
Off the Grid, Off the Road, Off my Rocker...

Dreaming and the basics of how to start
 

On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 22:56:12 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 03:01:16 GMT, "NE Sailboat"
wrote:

There are a few books about that show how a couple can live very cheaply.

They aren't renting cars, going out the restaurants, etc though.

It is all about the choices one makes.

Yes, and the choice is to live somewhere that resembles a floating
trailer park. Not pretty, and the towns are getting fed up. That
makes it more difficult for the rest of us who maintain our boats and
move on after a few days. This whole notion of being able to cruise
the world on the cheap is a complete myth.

Next fall we would have to do it on the cheap.
10 years from now, not so much.
20 years from now, in style, but we wonder if it would be better to
just go for it, young enough to enjoy the "cleaning of the hull"
I have a dock to tie to in my home port, and intend to move on or
anchor for short periods if the territory strikes me.
Somewhere further in this thread, the TT dock sounds like home!
(and resembles the one I will tie to for a small contribution of $ele$
and some more esoteric contributions for the favor.)
--

Woodsy,
Off the Grid, Off the Road, Off my Rocker...

Dreaming and the basics of how to start
 

On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 09:07:57 -0500, Howard wrote:

Frank,

There is a thread over on the Sailnet.com forum relevant to your questions.

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/cruisi...inancials.html

The thread sort of wanders around, as they tend to do, but does
eventually come back to the question. Also, I found it just plain
interesting and funny at times. I recommend it.

Howard

Yes it does wander, and was a great read, thanks for the link.
--

Woodsy,
Off the Grid, Off the Road, Off my Rocker...

Dreaming and the basics of how to start
 

"NE Sailboat" wrote in
news:p9Ehh.1445$Pq4.1014@trndny08:

Be careful Larry ,, Wayne wants you gone. He hates people like you.
His whole existance is threatened when someone tells him his view of
the world isn't necessarily everyone elses.



Lucky for him there aren't very many "people like me"....(c;

Most of 'em are much worse!

Dreaming and the basics of how to start
 

On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 21:57:41 GMT, "NE Sailboat"
wrote:

Be careful Larry ,, Wayne wants you gone. He hates people like you. His
whole existance is threatened when someone tells him his view of the world
isn't necessarily everyone elses.

Not so, it takes all kinds. There are actually some very nice
trailer parks here and there, typically retired folks who take a great
deal of pride in their homes and apply a lot of peer pressure to those
who don't.

And then there are the floating trailer parks with the home made
plywood aft cabins, 3 feet of sea weed hanging off the bottom and
multiple layers of artistic mildew decorating the top sides.
Typically the mast will be horizontal on 2 x 4s with a tarp stretched
over it but not always.

These are the folks who went cruising on the cheap and got just far
enough to be south of the frost line. And they are the first ones to
scream about the latest anti anchoring law that just got passed by the
town fathers.

Dreaming and the basics of how to start
 

On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 11:51:52 -0700, Paul Cassel
wrote:

Woodsy wrote:
"In my youth" I went half way around and back. At the helm a lot of
the way in a big USN way. "As I age" I wish to do it all the way
around. My wife and I will be in South Florida for vacation the week
of Christmas, and would like to look at ?catamarans? capable of a
circumnavigation. We would not be able to purchase before next fall,
hinging on the sale of everything we own to accomplish this dream.
Is there a polite way to view boats in the $100k to $150k range while
not feeling that we are taking advantage of some brokers time, or a
private individual's time, knowing that the boats we look at will have
been sold by then? (I also wonder if SO will be able to handle the
small quarters)

Is it realistic to think that a well equipped boat, with $100k in the
bank will last? 5?, 10?, 20 years till social security kicks in?

Looking for input, thank full for your time.

A month or two ago, Cruising World did an analysis of three ways to
cruise from frugal to luxo. I may be wrong, but that was also all
inclusive. Find and read that issue for all the info on probable costs.

Wow, about 5 hours before you wrote this, I picked up 10/06 (and 11
and 12/06) CW, and the article was in it. I have got to clean out the
POBox more often.I just started in to the article tonight.
Thanks, I would have bought the back issue otherwise.


There is NOTHING preventing you from doing small work to earn $$ on the
way. By doing little works you learn more about the communities you
visit than if you just tourist it. Some cruisers have skills they market
to other cruisers like if you are a reefer tech your future is MADE on
the water. Do not count on employment overseas, but it's easy in the US.
You can market your skills to cruisers anywhere.

Master plumber. the odd diesel mechanics,gas engine,small engine,etc
classes as continuing education, off the grid for over a decade in
recent past, worked in the weight test and rigging, sail loft on a
tender. B'osun. I own an O-Scope! And a pile of tools I can make a
living off of. Humm, maybe this cheap thing could work. That monster
cat on yacht world looks better and better. Deck crane, pull your
engine and meet you in Tahiti, drop it back in rebuilt. How many cans
of universal refrigerant before you violate a law?


Make it clear to the brokers that you are future buyers. Establish a
relationship with a broker who you learn to like and then when you are
ready to buy, contact that broker, say what you want, and make him part
of the deal. That way both of you are happy and you aren't exploiting
the guy now.

You will definitely want a broker on your side when you buy for a
variety of reasons I expect you know. If not, then repost.

I don't see a lot of positives with a broker.
What makes them desirable, and what makes a good one?


Thanks again,

Frank


--

Woodsy,
Off the Grid, Off the Road, Off my Rocker...

Dreaming and the basics of how to start
 

On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 18:39:34 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:

And then there are the floating trailer parks with the home made plywood
aft cabins, 3 feet of sea weed hanging off the bottom and multiple
layers of artistic mildew decorating the top sides. Typically the mast
will be horizontal on 2 x 4s with a tarp stretched over it but not
always.

These are the folks who went cruising on the cheap and got just far
enough to be south of the frost line. And they are the first ones to
scream about the latest anti anchoring law that just got passed by the
town fathers.

Actually a lot of them aren't cruisers at all, but people who live on
boats because it's cheaper than an apartment.

I know they're all over Florida. False Creek in Vancouver, BC is full of
them. There are plenty of "sneakaboards" living where they're not
supposed to in southern California marinas too. The few I've known over
the years weren't really boaters at all.

There are plenty of cruisers with inexpensive boats that are well taken
care of, some even quite spiffy.

Matt O.

Dreaming and the basics of how to start
 

Woodsy wrote:

My wife and I will be in South Florida for vacation the week
of Christmas, and would like to look at ?catamarans? capable of a
circumnavigation.

I suggest ya read teh post titled Cat Capsized off Oregon coast before
comitting to a cat capable of a round the world.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...GHUN14OU18.DTL


How many upside down cat stories are necessary for people see a
pattern?!?


We would not be able to purchase before next fall,
hinging on the sale of everything we own to accomplish this dream.

As soon as I see the word "dream" I get worried.

Is there a polite way to view boats in the $100k to $150k range while
not feeling that we are taking advantage of some brokers time, or a
private individual's time, knowing that the boats we look at will have
been sold by then? (I also wonder if SO will be able to handle the
small quarters)

Just say what ya just said. Let the owner/broker make the choice.


Is it realistic to think that a well equipped boat, with $100k in the
bank will last? 5?, 10?, 20 years till social security kicks in?


Sure. $!00,000 x .055 = $5,500/year.
But is SSI sis the only thin ya got for later.......?

Which breangs me to anothe queston.

So how are all thoes "writer and sailing experts" in the sailing
magazines who have "zillions of miles under their keel" and did
everything and are experts in all things that float going to live after
they are too old to work? I am assuming they did not bank much in 40
years of sailing and writing 500 word articles for $200 each.

Any clues?




Looking for input, thank full for your time.
Frank and Gail.

Try the "crusing simulator" posted her a few years back.



(and is "Gail Wins" a bad name for a boat?)

No worse than "wet spot" or "breaking wind"



--

Woodsy,
Off the Grid, Off the Road, Off my Rocker...

Dreaming and the basics of how to start
 

So how are all thoes "writer and sailing experts" in the sailing
magazines who have "zillions of miles under their keel" and did
everything and are experts in all things that float going to live after
they are too old to work? I am assuming they did not bank much in 40
years of sailing and writing 500 word articles for $200 each.

Any clues?
================================================== ===================================

Are you living to die or dying to LIVE? Those writers who have spent 40
years traveling all over the world and writing $200 dollar articles about
their adventures may not have much money, they might end up poor, homeless,
who knows. But, when their epitath is written, when their last cruise has
ended, they will go to their maker knowing that the trip here on earth was a
great ride.

Rather than mock them, I think of them as my hero's. I read of their
successes and of their failures. The storms they endured. The good times.
And sometimes the bad. Sure, they could have stayed put, worked at a job,
never set out for who knows where. But some urge, something within them,
sent them out onto the ocean. They ventured forth in small boats. Would we
be a better lot if not for the likes of Captain Joshua Slocum?

Robert Service, the poet put it best.

There's a race of men that don't fit in,
A race that can't stay still;
So they break the hearts of kith and kin,
And they roam the world at will.
They range the field and they rove the flood,
And they climb the mountain's crest;
Theirs is the curse of the gypsy blood,
And they don't know how to rest.

If they just went straight they might go far;
They are strong and brave and true;
But they're always tired of the things that are,
And they want the strange and new.
They say: "Could I find my proper groove,
What a deep mark I would make!"
So they chop and change, and each fresh move
Is only a fresh mistake.

And each forgets, as he strips and runs
With a brilliant, fitful pace,
It's the steady, quiet, plodding ones
Who win in the lifelong race.
And each forgets that his youth has fled,
Forgets that his prime is past,
Till he stands one day, with a hope that's dead,
In the glare of the truth at last.

He has failed, he has failed; he has missed his chance;
He has just done things by half.
Life's been a jolly good joke on him,
And now is the time to laugh.
Ha, ha! He is one of the Legion Lost;
He was never meant to win;
He's a rolling stone, and it's bred in the bone;
He's a man who won't fit in.

Robert Service



================================================== ================================================== ==========





"Bob" wrote in message
ups.com...

Woodsy wrote:

My wife and I will be in South Florida for vacation the week
of Christmas, and would like to look at ?catamarans? capable of a
circumnavigation.

I suggest ya read teh post titled Cat Capsized off Oregon coast before
comitting to a cat capable of a round the world.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...GHUN14OU18.DTL


How many upside down cat stories are necessary for people see a
pattern?!?


We would not be able to purchase before next fall,
hinging on the sale of everything we own to accomplish this dream.

As soon as I see the word "dream" I get worried.

Is there a polite way to view boats in the $100k to $150k range while
not feeling that we are taking advantage of some brokers time, or a
private individual's time, knowing that the boats we look at will have
been sold by then? (I also wonder if SO will be able to handle the
small quarters)

Just say what ya just said. Let the owner/broker make the choice.


Is it realistic to think that a well equipped boat, with $100k in the
bank will last? 5?, 10?, 20 years till social security kicks in?


Sure. $!00,000 x .055 = $5,500/year.
But is SSI sis the only thin ya got for later.......?

Which breangs me to anothe queston.

So how are all thoes "writer and sailing experts" in the sailing
magazines who have "zillions of miles under their keel" and did
everything and are experts in all things that float going to live after
they are too old to work? I am assuming they did not bank much in 40
years of sailing and writing 500 word articles for $200 each.

Any clues?




Looking for input, thank full for your time.
Frank and Gail.

Try the "crusing simulator" posted her a few years back.



(and is "Gail Wins" a bad name for a boat?)

No worse than "wet spot" or "breaking wind"



--

Woodsy,
Off the Grid, Off the Road, Off my Rocker...

Dreaming and the basics of how to start
 

On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 23:43:18 +0000, NE Sailboat wrote:

So how are all thoes "writer and sailing experts" in the sailing
magazines who have "zillions of miles under their keel" and did
everything and are experts in all things that float going to live after
they are too old to work? I am assuming they did not bank much in 40
years of sailing and writing 500 word articles for $200 each.

Any clues?

Yachtsmen from wealthy families -- who woulda thunk?

Matt O.

Dreaming and the basics of how to start
 

Woodsy wrote:


Master plumber. the odd diesel mechanics,gas engine,small engine,etc
classes as continuing education, off the grid for over a decade in
recent past, worked in the weight test and rigging, sail loft on a
tender. B'osun. I own an O-Scope! And a pile of tools I can make a
living off of. Humm, maybe this cheap thing could work. That monster
cat on yacht world looks better and better. Deck crane, pull your
engine and meet you in Tahiti, drop it back in rebuilt. How many cans
of universal refrigerant before you violate a law?

I don't know what a sail loft is doing on a tender, but it seems to me
that you have some skills. The reefer and the diesel will stand you in
good stead making a cash living. Don't fret the laws. We're afloat.



I don't see a lot of positives with a broker.
What makes them desirable, and what makes a good one?

Most boats are listed with brokers so you will pay the commission one
way or another. If you hire a buying broker, you'll pay no more yet
he'll be looking out for your interests, help you point out things on
the test sail, refer you to surveyors who will find what's wrong so
knock down the price of the boat or let you out of the deal.

-paul

Dreaming and the basics of how to start
 

On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 19:26:45 -0500, Woodsy wrote:

I don't see a lot of positives with a broker.
What makes them desirable, and what makes a good one?

I think brokers help a lot with price negotiation and making sure that
the deal goes down cleanly.

Most sellers have an inflated view of what their boat is worth. Many
brokers encourage that view in order to get the listing. Succesful
brokers however, also know how to deflate those expectations in the
end game without putting you in an awkward position.

Brokers also act as an escrow agent for holding your deposit until the
surveys and sea trial are successfully completed.

In addition to performing those functions, a good broker will also
know the market very well and give you good advice about specific
types and models of boats.

Dreaming and the basics of how to start
 

On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 18:02:03 -0700, Paul Cassel
wrote:

Woodsy wrote:


Master plumber. the odd diesel mechanics,gas engine,small engine,etc
classes as continuing education, off the grid for over a decade in
recent past, worked in the weight test and rigging, sail loft on a
tender. B'osun. I own an O-Scope! And a pile of tools I can make a
living off of. Humm, maybe this cheap thing could work. That monster
cat on yacht world looks better and better. Deck crane, pull your
engine and meet you in Tahiti, drop it back in rebuilt. How many cans
of universal refrigerant before you violate a law?

I don't know what a sail loft is doing on a tender, but it seems to me
that you have some skills. The reefer and the diesel will stand you in
good stead making a cash living. Don't fret the laws. We're afloat.

Sail loft made canvas for anything, convert a Destroyer into the
silhouette of a tanker, cover the decks, made a lot of canvas day
bags!




I don't see a lot of positives with a broker.
What makes them desirable, and what makes a good one?

Most boats are listed with brokers so you will pay the commission one
way or another. If you hire a buying broker, you'll pay no more yet
he'll be looking out for your interests, help you point out things on
the test sail, refer you to surveyors who will find what's wrong so
knock down the price of the boat or let you out of the deal.

I like the idea, just had not thought it thru, lets me concentrate on
other things than the details of purchase, other than reading the
contracts? I take it, like real estate, the commission is split
between the 2 brokers?


-paul
--

Woodsy,
Off the Grid, Off the Road, Off my Rocker...

Dreaming and the basics of how to start
 

On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 20:18:04 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 19:26:45 -0500, Woodsy wrote:

I don't see a lot of positives with a broker.
What makes them desirable, and what makes a good one?

I think brokers help a lot with price negotiation and making sure that
the deal goes down cleanly.

I now see many advantages, the above says it all, cleanly!


Most sellers have an inflated view of what their boat is worth. Many
brokers encourage that view in order to get the listing. Succesful
brokers however, also know how to deflate those expectations in the
end game without putting you in an awkward position.

Brokers also act as an escrow agent for holding your deposit until the
surveys and sea trial are successfully completed.

In addition to performing those functions, a good broker will also
know the market very well and give you good advice about specific
types and models of boats.

Invaluable with that, especially at this stage, rather than spend
years figuring it out, better off figuring out a specific boat.

--

Woodsy,
Off the Grid, Off the Road, Off my Rocker...

Dreaming and the basics of how to start
 

On 18-Dec-2006, "Bob" wrote:

Woodsy wrote:

My wife and I will be in South Florida for vacation the week
of Christmas, and would like to look at ?catamarans? capable of a
circumnavigation.

I suggest ya read teh post titled Cat Capsized off Oregon coast before
comitting to a cat capable of a round the world.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...GHUN14OU18.DTL


How many upside down cat stories are necessary for people see a
pattern?!?

How many SUNKEN mono hull stories are necessary for people see a pattern?

Dreaming and the basics of how to start
 

Woodsy wrote:


I like the idea, just had not thought it thru, lets me concentrate on
other things than the details of purchase, other than reading the
contracts? I take it, like real estate, the commission is split
between the 2 brokers?

Yes. If you hire a broker yourself, he is bound to look after your
interests. Same as real estate.

-paul

Dreaming and the basics of how to start
 

NE Sailboat wrote:
So how are all thoes "writer and sailing experts" in the sailing
magazines who have "zillions of miles under their keel" and did
everything and are experts in all things that float going to live after
they are too old to work? I am assuming they did not bank much in 40
years of sailing and writing 500 word articles for $200 each.

Any clues?
================================================== ===================================

Hi NE Sailboat
Are you living to die or dying to LIVE?

I think you need to read another Lats $ Atts issue. Close quote but
missed it. Get it right.


Those writers who have spent 40
years traveling all over the world and writing $200 dollar articles about
their adventures may not have much money, they might end up poor, homeless,
who knows.

In the united states they'll end up on welfair with you paying their ER
visits cause they dont have any insurance. How many marinas have
wheelchair acess?


But, when their epitath is written, when their last cruise has
ended, they will go to their maker knowing that the trip here on earth was a
great ride.

gag me with a spoon! Im sitting in my motel room again cause I have fix
a window and sort through 40 years of my mom's stuff who died in
september. You want to know somthing, when yore dead your dead. Most
likly you'll just beanother unknown face on an old photo.



Rather than mock them,

MOck them.......... nope. Just not willing to cannonize somebody
selfish enough to play their life away and tthen???? But the other
poster had it right no doubt, children of well of parents.

I think of them as my hero's. I read of their
successes and of their failures. The storms they endured. The good times.
And sometimes the bad.

I certainly wouldnot use the word hero. So they did inteesting things
and now need to turn to others to pay for the decads of interesting
articals. Sounds fun. I have a friend who did the same. NOw that he is
55, no health insurance, no retirment, rented all his life. Now that
life is catching up he is truely scared.

Sure, they could have stayed put, worked at a job,
never set out for who knows where. But some urge, something within them,
sent them out onto the ocean. They ventured forth in small boats. Would we
be a better lot if not for the likes of Captain Joshua Slocum?

He worked for a living. Check out his bio.



Robert Service, the poet put it best.

There's a race of men that don't fit in,
A race that can't stay still;

But when your body does not alow that then what? Die young and leave a
good looking corps?
My dead mom thoght she would justsit in her garden, sip Merlot, and
bliss out to the next world. In reallity death is most likly
agonizingly prolonged. There are a few interesting stats regarding
hospis care and having a family member who will take care of you. I
suppose you can always OD in the cockpit and hope to die of hypothermia
and drugs.


Im thinking you want to live the dream and can not. But this is best
suited for another thread.
Happy Chrismaka