Boat for single hander
 

On Sat, 09 Dec 2006 09:14:25 -0800, Dan Best
wrote:

Could this be the source of your
assertion that most sailors overestimate by 100%?

I believe Roger is talking about the optical illusion that occurs when
the bow of your boat is pointing down into the trough of a good sized
wave but your senses think that the boat is level due to the motion
and G forces.

Boat for single hander
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 09 Dec 2006 09:14:25 -0800, Dan Best
wrote:

Could this be the source of your
assertion that most sailors overestimate by 100%?

I believe Roger is talking about the optical illusion that occurs when
the bow of your boat is pointing down into the trough of a good sized
wave but your senses think that the boat is level due to the motion
and G forces.


I think the best approach is the set-up a surveyor's transit on your
foredeck, and assign crew to keep a running wave-height log.

Boat for single hander
 

Dan Best wrote:

It may be true that some overestimate wave heights by this much, but
it is hardly universal. For moderate waves, I am quite confident in
my estimates. It's really quite simple. If you know the height of
your eye above the water as you sit in the cockpit (for instance,
mine is just a hair over 6') then if the wave top is above the
horizon while you are in the trough, it is over 6', if it doesn't, it
is under 6'. By adjusting for how much it appears to be higher/lower
than the horizon, you can then get a very good estimate for waves up
to about twice your base height.

You are probably right about your wave height estimates because that is
essentially the proper method for estimating. When you just look out from
the cockpit and guess though, they'll look twice as high. Often, you'll
have to lie down at the rail to get the proper eye height to measure those
"six foot" waves.

--
Roger Long

Boat for single hander
 

How did I know I was in 40-foot waves? I did not.

The waves were extremely high; the sea surface was covered with white foam
and long streaks

When I made it to Ingermar, a safe heaven, a group of people was inside the
breakwater. They were all looking at me and my boat getting in.

While helping me to tie up my boat they stated that I was very lucky. They
mentioned that they had been watching me with binoculars coming in. They
then said,"you were on your own" Because all vessels including the coast
guards were tied inside the break water and were unable to go out. Soon
after the coast guard told me that, I was lucky to be safe since all Rescue
Helicopters were grounded because of the high seas and strong wind. I then
asked about the height of the waves they replied 40 feet. Then the local
radio stations confirmed that all beaches were closed because of 40-foot
waves.


"Dan Best" wrote in message
...
Roger Long wrote:
There are solid physical reasons why even the most experience sailors
overestimate wave heights by about 100%.

Roger,
It may be true that some overestimate wave heights by this much, but it is
hardly universal. For moderate waves, I am quite confident in my
estimates. It's really quite simple. If you know the height of your eye
above the water as you sit in the cockpit (for instance, mine is just a
hair over 6') then if the wave top is above the horizon while you are in
the trough, it is over 6', if it doesn't, it is under 6'. By adjusting
for how much it appears to be higher/lower than the horizon, you can then
get a very good estimate for waves up to about twice your base height.
Beyond that, it becomes more difficult and the wave heights become more of
a guesstimate than an estimate as it is difficult to really tell if it is
even with the spreaders or how much above/below them the waves really are.

Note that using this method, you also have to adjust a bit depending on
the amount of heel and whether you are sitting on the high or low side of
the cockpit.

p.s.
Don't forget that all waves have two heights, the one we write down in the
log and the one we tell about at the bar in the story that begins "No
****, you won't believe....". Could this be the source of your assertion
that most sailors overestimate by 100%?

Boat for single hander
 

NE Sailboat wrote:

If single handing is as easy as you make it out to be ....... why are
the above folks (Slocum, Chichester, Robin Knox-Johnston) so revered.

Good agents? :) Lots of people we've never heard of have sailed long
distances single handed.

I'm not for a minute saying that single handed offshore passage making is as
easy as what I do, any more than long passagemaking with a crew is as easy
as coastal cruising with a crew. We're talking here about coastal cruising
which is essentially daysailing except that you anchor or moor somewhere
different every night.

Obviously it's more work and effort to do everything youself but, from the
tenor of your post, I don't think effort is what we are talking about.
"Difficult", as I read your post, means anxiety about how to accomplish the
tasks, worry that effects your decisions, (anchoring instead of docking
because you might damage another boat), getting frustrated, etc. This is
supposed to be enjoyable and rewarding in the way that challenging things
can be. If it's only enjoyable when you're sliding along with the sails set
and a beverage in your hand, you are doing something wrong.

I'm not saying that I never did and never will bump another boat or have
something go wrong but my level of confidence and expectation of
successfully performing the various evolutions and tasks is about the same,
and often slightly higher, when I'm alone than with a crew. The feelings
and events that seem to be diminishing your pleasure in boating occasionally
comeup but it has nothing to do with how many bodies are on the boat.

You say you always sail alone. What you may be overlooking is that you will
end up feeling just as frustrated and out of control if you start taking
people with you. It may have nothing to do with single handing at all. If
you need to rely on the crew to perform in a way that will prevent the
feelings that you have described, you will be putting pressure on them that
will hurt their enjoyment and make you feel even less in control when they
give you that "which cleat?" look. There is an art to command that, it it's
way, is even more difficult than single handing. Even with a good and
experienced crew, if you can't handle a boat of this size by yourself, you
probably are going to find it difficult to direct a crew in a way that makes
it less stressful.

31 years? You should be able to handle a Bristol 32 with one hand tied
after wringing that much water out of your socks.

--
Roger Long

Boat for single hander
 

Really ,, this is getting old. You never, ever, not in this lifetime, or in
the last lifetime .......... sailed a 27' boat out on the sea in 40' waves!

"Helicopters were grounded because of the high seas and strong wind. I
then
asked about the height of the waves they replied 40 feet. Then the local
radio stations confirmed that all beaches were closed because of 40-foot
waves."

I believe we have a "troll" here. An annoying troll.

Good thing the helicopters didn't go off and fly,, one of the 40' waves
would have reached up and swallowed the helicopter.







wrote in message
...
How did I know I was in 40-foot waves? I did not.

The waves were extremely high; the sea surface was covered with white foam
and long streaks

When I made it to Ingermar, a safe heaven, a group of people was inside
the breakwater. They were all looking at me and my boat getting in.

While helping me to tie up my boat they stated that I was very lucky. They
mentioned that they had been watching me with binoculars coming in. They
then said,"you were on your own" Because all vessels including the coast
guards were tied inside the break water and were unable to go out. Soon
after the coast guard told me that, I was lucky to be safe since all
Rescue Helicopters were grounded because of the high seas and strong wind.
I then asked about the height of the waves they replied 40 feet. Then the
local radio stations confirmed that all beaches were closed because of
40-foot waves.


"Dan Best" wrote in message
...
Roger Long wrote:
There are solid physical reasons why even the most experience sailors
overestimate wave heights by about 100%.

Roger,
It may be true that some overestimate wave heights by this much, but it
is hardly universal. For moderate waves, I am quite confident in my
estimates. It's really quite simple. If you know the height of your eye
above the water as you sit in the cockpit (for instance, mine is just a
hair over 6') then if the wave top is above the horizon while you are in
the trough, it is over 6', if it doesn't, it is under 6'. By adjusting
for how much it appears to be higher/lower than the horizon, you can then
get a very good estimate for waves up to about twice your base height.
Beyond that, it becomes more difficult and the wave heights become more
of a guesstimate than an estimate as it is difficult to really tell if it
is even with the spreaders or how much above/below them the waves really
are.

Note that using this method, you also have to adjust a bit depending on
the amount of heel and whether you are sitting on the high or low side of
the cockpit.

p.s.
Don't forget that all waves have two heights, the one we write down in
the log and the one we tell about at the bar in the story that begins "No
****, you won't believe....". Could this be the source of your assertion
that most sailors overestimate by 100%?

Boat for single hander
 

NE Sailboat wrote:
Really ,, this is getting old. You never, ever, not in this lifetime, or in
the last lifetime .......... sailed a 27' boat out on the sea in 40' waves!

"Helicopters were grounded because of the high seas and strong wind. I
then
asked about the height of the waves they replied 40 feet. Then the local
radio stations confirmed that all beaches were closed because of 40-foot
waves."

I believe we have a "troll" here. An annoying troll.

Good thing the helicopters didn't go off and fly,, one of the 40' waves
would have reached up and swallowed the helicopter.



Not to mention 40' waves on a beach. The surfers would have been
swarming from far & near.

Boat for single hander
 

Boat for single hander
 

Roger ,, ,, on the single handed sailing ..

According to the folks on the singlehanded_sailing group for yahoo ... it is
against the maritime laws because a watch must be maintained at all times.

Now I'm off the hook ( get it ). I can stay in port and bother people.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
NE Sailboat wrote:

If single handing is as easy as you make it out to be ....... why are
the above folks (Slocum, Chichester, Robin Knox-Johnston) so revered.

Good agents? :) Lots of people we've never heard of have sailed long
distances single handed.

I'm not for a minute saying that single handed offshore passage making is
as easy as what I do, any more than long passagemaking with a crew is as
easy as coastal cruising with a crew. We're talking here about coastal
cruising which is essentially daysailing except that you anchor or moor
somewhere different every night.

Obviously it's more work and effort to do everything youself but, from the
tenor of your post, I don't think effort is what we are talking about.
"Difficult", as I read your post, means anxiety about how to accomplish
the tasks, worry that effects your decisions, (anchoring instead of
docking because you might damage another boat), getting frustrated, etc.
This is supposed to be enjoyable and rewarding in the way that challenging
things can be. If it's only enjoyable when you're sliding along with the
sails set and a beverage in your hand, you are doing something wrong.

I'm not saying that I never did and never will bump another boat or have
something go wrong but my level of confidence and expectation of
successfully performing the various evolutions and tasks is about the
same, and often slightly higher, when I'm alone than with a crew. The
feelings and events that seem to be diminishing your pleasure in boating
occasionally comeup but it has nothing to do with how many bodies are on
the boat.

You say you always sail alone. What you may be overlooking is that you
will end up feeling just as frustrated and out of control if you start
taking people with you. It may have nothing to do with single handing at
all. If you need to rely on the crew to perform in a way that will
prevent the feelings that you have described, you will be putting pressure
on them that will hurt their enjoyment and make you feel even less in
control when they give you that "which cleat?" look. There is an art to
command that, it it's way, is even more difficult than single handing.
Even with a good and experienced crew, if you can't handle a boat of this
size by yourself, you probably are going to find it difficult to direct a
crew in a way that makes it less stressful.

31 years? You should be able to handle a Bristol 32 with one hand tied
after wringing that much water out of your socks.

--
Roger Long

Boat for single hander
 

I won't be as quick as the other responders to dismiss this story. Wave
heights are often over estimated in the media and beach wave heights will be
a lot more than in the open water.

It's winter, many of us are stuck on shore. This sounds like a story that
deserves telling. Please start a new post and tell it. There certainly
must be some lessons that are useful to others. Also, please tell us where
Ingermar is (which country). I'd like to look it up on Google Earth. A
link to a picture of the boat would also be nice.

--
Roger Long