Staining teak trim before varnishing?
 

I'm getting ready to do a major varnish project on my Grand Banks 49
and was thinking that it might be nice to have the teak more or less
the same color (some is lighter, some darker, etc.). The wood will be
stripped and sanded before I start with the varnish.

Does anyone have any thoughts, experience, whatever with staining
teak? If so, what type and color of stain would you recommend?

Is there any downside other than some loss of wood grain visibility?

I'm planning to use epifanes gloss varnish which builds up to a dark
amber color with enough coats.

Staining teak trim before varnishing?
 

I wouldn't do it. I tried it a few months ago on a laminated teak display
easel I was building for a friend down in the BVI. Stained with an aniline
dye which is the most transparent of all stain types to subdue the variation
in the veneers and it still came out with a muddy look under the varnish.
Stripped it down to bare wood and started over.

BTW, if anyone gets to Tortola and want to repay the first mate for putting
up with your boating addiction, be sure to take her to the Brandywine
Restaurant. Finest dining experience in the Caribbean. I made the menu
easels. :-)

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
I'm getting ready to do a major varnish project on my Grand Banks 49
and was thinking that it might be nice to have the teak more or less
the same color (some is lighter, some darker, etc.). The wood will be
stripped and sanded before I start with the varnish.

Does anyone have any thoughts, experience, whatever with staining
teak? If so, what type and color of stain would you recommend?

Is there any downside other than some loss of wood grain visibility?

I'm planning to use epifanes gloss varnish which builds up to a dark
amber color with enough coats.

Staining teak trim before varnishing?
 

Staining teak is generally a bad idea. I've seen it tried twice (Albin
trawler and Jeaneau 41). and in both cases it was a disaster.
The problem is that teak is oily and hard to stain evenly. If your teak
has been ignored over the years and drier (In that you didn't oil it),
it might stain more evenly. Depending on the condition of the wood and
it's depth, it may be hard or even impossible to undo the staining
process.
After he tried it, the owner of the Albin told me it had been as dumb
as painting a DeLorean. Teak is a gorgeous wood. Don't stain it.

Good luck in any case!



Robert B
Beneteau 35s5
NY
http://hometown.aol.com/bobsprit/index.html

Staining teak trim before varnishing?
 

There are products specifically made to even out the ability of difficult woods
to absorb stains. Ask anyone who builds and finishes furniture.



The fellow with the Albin used something that smelled like acetone for
that very purpose. It didn't work. Nothing was capable of getting
enough oil out of the teak. I haven't looked lately, but the last time
I did most sites said staining teak was not a good idea either.
If the original poster tries it I'd like to hear the results. At my
yard it's generally considered a no-no.


Robert B
35s5
NY

Staining teak trim before varnishing?
 

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com...

There are products specifically made to even out the ability of difficult
woods
to absorb stains. Ask anyone who builds and finishes furniture.



The fellow with the Albin used something that smelled like acetone for
that very purpose. It didn't work. Nothing was capable of getting
enough oil out of the teak. I haven't looked lately, but the last time
I did most sites said staining teak was not a good idea either.
If the original poster tries it I'd like to hear the results. At my
yard it's generally considered a no-no.


Robert B
35s5
NY


Maybe use an oil based stain?

Staining teak trim before varnishing?
 

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com...

There are products specifically made to even out the ability of
difficult woods
to absorb stains. Ask anyone who builds and finishes furniture.



The fellow with the Albin used something that smelled like acetone for
that very purpose. It didn't work. Nothing was capable of getting
enough oil out of the teak. I haven't looked lately, but the last time
I did most sites said staining teak was not a good idea either.
If the original poster tries it I'd like to hear the results. At my
yard it's generally considered a no-no.


Robert B
35s5
NY


Maybe use an oil based stain?


I have to concur with those who say "Don't do it." The variations in the
grain are part of the beauty of teak. If you would stain it, you might as
well go whole hog and just *paint* it.

Staining teak trim before varnishing?
 

have to concur with those who say "Don't do it." The variations in the

grain are part of the beauty of teak. If you would stain it, you might
as
well go whole hog and just *paint* it.


That's a very good point and I've seen people paint over teak with good
results. That may be a smarter move as well since you can get the paint
off one day.


Robert B
35s5
NY

Staining teak trim before varnishing?
 

On 3 Dec 2006 17:01:42 -0800, "Capt. Rob" wrote:

That's a very good point and I've seen people paint over teak with good
results. That may be a smarter move as well since you can get the paint
off one day.

If you seal the wood with varnish first, it is possible to remove the
paint at a later date. We have already painted some of the teak trim
that is difficult to get at but it would not look good on the part
that I'm doing now.

Staining teak trim before varnishing?
 

Instead of staining consider 'tinting' the varnish after the first few
coats.
Check with the varnish maufacturer for the best chemical 'match' of
tint to varnish; for oil based varnished I use aniline dyes .... just a
'pinch' is 'plenty' and build up with coats till you reach the 'hue'
you want. If you are over 50 years of age, get some younger person to
help with the color match as old eyes cant perceive colors very well.
;-)


In article , Wayne.B
wrote:

I'm getting ready to do a major varnish project on my Grand Banks 49
and was thinking that it might be nice to have the teak more or less
the same color (some is lighter, some darker, etc.). The wood will be
stripped and sanded before I start with the varnish.

Does anyone have any thoughts, experience, whatever with staining
teak? If so, what type and color of stain would you recommend?

Is there any downside other than some loss of wood grain visibility?

I'm planning to use epifanes gloss varnish which builds up to a dark
amber color with enough coats.

Staining teak trim before varnishing?
 

Teak is a gorgeous wood. Don't stain it.

Being a woodworker, I feel that way about many woods. I had a customer once
that wanted "cherry wood" cabinets. When the material was delivered (I do
the woodworking on site), he thought I was trying to rip him off. He
couldn't believe that the wood delivered was cherry. I explained to him that
cherry wood develops that deep cherry tone with age, and this is how it
looks new. He didn't want to wait, so I stained it with that sh*ty rosewood
stain. He was happy, and I was paid. I still didn't like ruining that
gorgeous wood though... AAMOF, I have a fair amount left over from that job,
and it's been sitting in my shop for 10 years or so. It's looking VERY nice
right about now. Now I just have to figure out what to make out of it.

--Mike

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com...

Staining teak is generally a bad idea. I've seen it tried twice (Albin
trawler and Jeaneau 41). and in both cases it was a disaster.
The problem is that teak is oily and hard to stain evenly. If your teak
has been ignored over the years and drier (In that you didn't oil it),
it might stain more evenly. Depending on the condition of the wood and
it's depth, it may be hard or even impossible to undo the staining
process.
After he tried it, the owner of the Albin told me it had been as dumb
as painting a DeLorean. Teak is a gorgeous wood. Don't stain it.

Good luck in any case!



Robert B
Beneteau 35s5
NY
http://hometown.aol.com/bobsprit/index.html

Staining teak trim before varnishing?
 

Try Deks Olje; part 1 will seal and part 2 will give you the
varnish-like appearance you want. Once you get through the initial
work, upkeep is relatively easy (a once a year quick update for me).
It also darkens the teak a bit but gives you a consistent finish.

Steve Hayes
Augusta, ME

Staining teak trim before varnishing?
 

On 4 Dec 2006 08:09:33 -0800, "steve_hayes_maine"
wrote:

Try Deks Olje; part 1 will seal and part 2 will give you the
varnish-like appearance you want. Once you get through the initial
work, upkeep is relatively easy (a once a year quick update for me).
It also darkens the teak a bit but gives you a consistent finish.

I know that some people swear by it but for some reason it has never
been rated very highly in any of Practical Sailors teak coating tests.

My varnish would probably last almost forever in Maine but down here
in south Florida the sun is brutal. Perhaps PS did their testing in
the tropics also.

Does anyone else have Deks Olje experience - pro or con?

Staining teak trim before varnishing?
 

On Mon, 04 Dec 2006 18:03:56 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:

On 4 Dec 2006 08:09:33 -0800, "steve_hayes_maine"
wrote:

Try Deks Olje; part 1 will seal and part 2 will give you the
varnish-like appearance you want. Once you get through the initial
work, upkeep is relatively easy (a once a year quick update for me). It
also darkens the teak a bit but gives you a consistent finish.

I know that some people swear by it but for some reason it has never
been rated very highly in any of Practical Sailors teak coating tests.

My varnish would probably last almost forever in Maine but down here in
south Florida the sun is brutal. Perhaps PS did their testing in the
tropics also.

Do they live with it and maintain it for a couple of years, or just report
on how it goes on and looks immediately afterward?

Does anyone else have Deks Olje experience - pro or con?

I've been using it for the last 6 years. Until recently I swore it was
the best thing going. Maintenance is far easier than with traditional
varnish, and takes a lot less time.

The downside is that it isn't as hard or glossy, and doesn't last as long.
In South Florida I'm sure it won't last as long as in the Pacific
Northwest.

After a couple of years testing Cetol on some areas and Deks on the rest,
we've switched everything to Cetol. It's harder to sand and apply, but
lasts so much longer. Every spring the Deks would need moderate
patching, as well as a thorough sanding and a couple of finish coats. The
Cetol needed nothing but a top coat for good measure, and patching only
where it had been physically damaged.

So I think I'm a Cetol convert. If I were on the boat year-round to
do regular touch-ups, I might go back to Deks -- especially just the #1
satin, which alone is a really nice finish. But I haven't left it on
without the #2 long enough to know how well it lasts by itself.

Many people don't like Cetol's orange color. The new Light version
is less orange.

Deks Olje has a traditional varnish color, darker than average.

Finally, a safety issue -- Cetol is so hard that it's very slippery, while
Deks is soft enough that it's almost non-skid.

Matt O.

Staining teak trim before varnishing?
 

On Mon, 04 Dec 2006 19:56:43 -0500, Matt O'Toole
wrote:

My varnish would probably last almost forever in Maine but down here in
south Florida the sun is brutal. Perhaps PS did their testing in the
tropics also.

Do they live with it and maintain it for a couple of years, or just report
on how it goes on and looks immediately afterward?

They apply the coatings to test panels and put them outdoors for a
year, similar to what a boat would experience.

Staining teak trim and Deks Olje
 

Wayne asked. "Does anyone else have Deks Olje experience - pro or con?.

I recently purchased a boat with teak trim that had gone grey with age and
exposure.

Initially I felt nothing would bring it back but Deks Olje completely
transformed it. Now it looks new in fact a few people at the marina asked me
if I replaced it, and were surprised to lean it was the original wood.

Follow the instructions carefully. Clean off any varnish or old paint with
stripper and use a good wood cleaner, the Flood one is good and scrub the
teak with a soft brisstle brush and hose down or wash thoroughly. After
cleaning the teak will come up a pale honey blonde colour. Sand any poor
areas with 100 grit paper and a sanding block and dust off.

The Deks is a 2 part process. Apply Deks #1 to the completely dry prepared
wood and saturate with continuous wet coats till the wood will absorb no
more then wipe off the excess with a rag moistened with more Deks #1. Dont
use a dry rag or you will wipe off the surface. Allow 24 - 48 hrs to dry
then apply 5 coats of Deks #2 with 24 hrs between. It is a lot easier to
apply than varnish. Wet sand coats 3 and 4 for a flat varnish like surface.

When I bought this boat I would have thought my teak was ruined but this
stuff works great and I think it is exactly what you need.

By the way, the previous owner had painted the teak marlin board with white
enamel. We stripped that back and Deks Olje'd that too. The hardest part was
stripping all the old enamel off.

I have some pics if interested.

Craig

Staining teak trim before varnishing?
 

On Sun, 03 Dec 2006 13:53:15 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

I'm getting ready to do a major varnish project on my Grand Banks 49
and was thinking that it might be nice to have the teak more or less
the same color (some is lighter, some darker, etc.). The wood will be
stripped and sanded before I start with the varnish.

Is the color difference from sun exposure or from different batches of
wood being used during construction? If it's from sun it will all be
much closer to the same when you sand down far enough. I used Daly's
A/B bleach to even out some blotches and rust spots, then lightly
sanded out the bleach stains.

Does anyone have any thoughts, experience, whatever with staining
teak? If so, what type and color of stain would you recommend?


After some tests I used tung oil instead of stain. I pressure washed,
scrubbed, stripped (Citri-strip with plastic scrapper; it has to be
hot out) sanded and used tung oil, then varnished. Don't pressure wash
unless you have to- I had mold, moss, slime, rot to blow off first. My
wood was badly neglected and some of it had to be bleached or
replaced. Some parts blew off when pressure washed. Splices on trim
and mouldings were done at opposed 45 degrees instead of butt spliced.
It looks pretty good now and light years better than it did.

Is there any downside other than some loss of wood grain visibility?

I tried staining on some scrap and it just looked gross. It killed all
the iridescence and depth that makes a varnished piece of teak look
hypnotic, sensual and classy. The stained effect was kind of
artificial and cheap looking but that's in the eye of the beholder I
guess. Cetal makes me physically ill to look at.
I have stained, then varnished marine plywood and been blown away by
how good it looks. If you radius the edges of 3 or 5 ply stuff it
makes a dark, light, dark, light etc effect which makes it look like
you know what you're doing. It was a cheap trick in 60's interior
construction and draws the eye away from amateur joinery work to an
extent.

I'm planning to use epifanes gloss varnish which builds up to a dark
amber color with enough coats.

I used Man-o-War at $32 per gallon. Any varnish will darken as the
coats build up. I found it lasted longer in the can than the boutique
stuff, was easier to apply and gave more consistent results. Unless
you're some kind of artist I would stick to basics.

Staining teak trim before varnishing?
 

On Wed, 06 Dec 2006 01:34:14 -0800, ray lunder
wrote:

I have stained, then varnished marine plywood and been blown away by
how good it looks. If you radius the edges of 3 or 5 ply stuff it
makes a dark, light, dark, light etc effect which makes it look like
you know what you're doing.

I did that with a bow pulpit project on my old boat. Used cherry
stain over okume ply and it looked real good when varnished.

Staining teak trim before varnishing?
 

On Sun, 03 Dec 2006 13:53:15 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

I'm getting ready to do a major varnish project on my Grand Banks 49
and was thinking that it might be nice to have the teak more or less
the same color (some is lighter, some darker, etc.). The wood will be
stripped and sanded before I start with the varnish.

Does anyone have any thoughts, experience, whatever with staining
teak? If so, what type and color of stain would you recommend?

Is there any downside other than some loss of wood grain visibility?

I'm planning to use epifanes gloss varnish which builds up to a dark
amber color with enough coats.


On my last boat I used Watco danish oil finish stain on my interior
teak, but did not apply a varnish over it, just more oil. I used
Cherry. It came out great.

It will only alter tone as it is a suspended pigment stain in an oil
base. The effect is to blend the various wood tones, rather than
impart a serious color change.

All stains are not the same, Dyes are not the same as pigment stains.
Dyes can be water based, alcohol based, or oil based and generally
provide the most color change, but also the most chance of blotching.
Dyes penetrate, oil stains tend to stay on the surface.

My suggestion, read up on the subject, (flexnor, Jewitt, others..),
but sample first to see what you like.

I'm also a woodworker and currently finishing a china cabinet. I must
have about 30 samples of various dyes, stains, topcoats combinations
sitting around the shop and still haven't gotten it perfect. In this
case, I'm trying to match an existing piece so it is that much harder.
With that, you also have to estimate the patina change over time.

Frank