2 stroke / 4 stroke advice
 

Hi

I am a member of a Scuba diving club and we are investigating replacing
our outboard engines.

We currently have two Zodiac 5m inflatable boats (not RIBs) with 40HP 2
stroke Mariner outboards. These are reaching the end of their lives and
we are looking at replacing them.

With the new legislation coming in we are looking at 2 stroke vs 4
stroke. I am aware that few people use 4 strokes on inflatables and
fewer would manhandle them down beaches removing and replacing them
daily as we do.

Does anyone have any experience of using 4 strokes on inflatable boats
in this way? Are there any implcations to the angle you can carry/store
them?

Thanks in advance for your advice

Anthony Whittaker

2 stroke / 4 stroke advice
 

"ajw" wrote in
ups.com:

Are there any implcations to the angle you can carry/store
them?


Yes. In any engine with loose lube oil inside it, you can only tilt,
carry and store it in certain locations. If, for instance, you were to
store it so the oil ran up against the bottom of the pistons, oil would
get past the rings into the top of the cylinders, after a time as they
are not hermetically sealed. It could become hydrolocked with lube oil,
which would bend the rods trying to get it past TDC on the compression
stroke with the valves closed. If the oil in the crankcase ran out the
crankcase vents in another position, what a mess. Cranking that would be
running the engine way low on lube oil, the oil that ran out now missing
from where it is needed.

The permissible carrying and storage positions designed into the portable
4-stroke outboards is defined in the owner's manual. Check that before
buying them. They are also much more complex and heavy than the
simplistic 2-strokers with no valve trains, camshafts, etc. a 4-stroker
must have. How far down the beach did you say you had to carry these
beasts? It's also an issue.

I tried to quote from Mercury or Evinrude from a downloaded owner's
manual, but both websites tried to force me to install Flash players so
they could run code on my computer to spy on me, which I will not permit,
and, once that was bypassed, informed me I had to already be an owner to
download an Evinrude owner's manual, making me question, "What are they
hiding?", as it costs them nothing to let me have a look, being a
potential customer.



Larry
--
Turkeys will be cheaper, Friday morning...(sigh)

2 stroke / 4 stroke advice
 

"Larry" wrote in message
...
I tried to quote from Mercury or Evinrude from a downloaded owner's
manual, but both websites tried to force me to install Flash players so
they could run code on my computer to spy on me, which I will not permit,
and, once that was bypassed, informed me I had to already be an owner to
download an Evinrude owner's manual, making me question, "What are they
hiding?", as it costs them nothing to let me have a look, being a
potential customer.



Larry
--
Turkeys will be cheaper, Friday morning...(sigh)


Perhaps I'm naive, but since when is Flash spyware?

2 stroke / 4 stroke advice
 

Perhaps I'm naive, but since when is Flash spyware?





It isn't, however it is used for quite a few annoying ads.

Firefox to the rescue, the flashblock extension makes every flash object
just a button you can push if you want it to load. Adblock lets you
block ads, I really can't see how anyone can stand to use the internet
any other way these days.

2 stroke / 4 stroke advice
 

"James Sweet" wrote in message
news:rqL8h.3525$_x3.2976@trndny02...

Perhaps I'm naive, but since when is Flash spyware?

It isn't, however it is used for quite a few annoying ads.

Firefox to the rescue, the flashblock extension makes every flash object
just a button you can push if you want it to load. Adblock lets you block
ads, I really can't see how anyone can stand to use the internet any other
way these days.

Yeah, I switched to Firefox about a year ago after finding out how much
spyware IE was encouraging on my system, and I regret the switch not even a
little.

2 stroke / 4 stroke advice
 

I love my 4 stroke yamaha for it's clean burning and fuel economy but
it weighs a lot more than my old mercury 2 stroke. I sure wouldn't
want to carry it down a beach. Don't some of the new 2 strokes use
direct injection for lower emissions?

Hi

I am a member of a Scuba diving club and we are investigating replacing
our outboard engines.

We currently have two Zodiac 5m inflatable boats (not RIBs) with 40HP 2
stroke Mariner outboards. These are reaching the end of their lives and
we are looking at replacing them.

With the new legislation coming in we are looking at 2 stroke vs 4
stroke. I am aware that few people use 4 strokes on inflatables and
fewer would manhandle them down beaches removing and replacing them
daily as we do.

Does anyone have any experience of using 4 strokes on inflatable boats
in this way? Are there any implcations to the angle you can carry/store
them?

Thanks in advance for your advice

Anthony Whittaker

2 stroke / 4 stroke advice
 

Dave wrote:
On 21 Nov 2006 17:33:04 -0600, Dave said:


On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 15:56:29 -0600, "KLC Lewis" said:


Perhaps I'm naive, but since when is Flash spyware?

Haven't you noticed? Everybody is out to get Larry. The big corporations,
Jews, bankers, brokers, you name it. So why not software developers.


Oh. And don't forget Freemasons.

...and especially lawyers!

2 stroke / 4 stroke advice
 

Dave wrote in news:vt27m2hqpmmlve750mn3kft36jgfthmqo8@
4ax.com:

Haven't you noticed? Everybody is out to get Larry. The big corporations,
Jews, bankers, brokers, you name it. So why not software developers.



oh, oh.....they got me!......



Larry
--
Turkeys will be cheaper, Friday morning...(sigh)

2 stroke / 4 stroke advice
 

and don't some of those 2 strokes have fuel-to-oil ratios approaching 100:1
?
Not a lot of pollution there.

"Drew Dalgleish" wrote in message
...
I love my 4 stroke yamaha for it's clean burning and fuel economy but
it weighs a lot more than my old mercury 2 stroke. I sure wouldn't
want to carry it down a beach. Don't some of the new 2 strokes use
direct injection for lower emissions?

Hi

I am a member of a Scuba diving club and we are investigating replacing
our outboard engines.

We currently have two Zodiac 5m inflatable boats (not RIBs) with 40HP 2
stroke Mariner outboards. These are reaching the end of their lives and
we are looking at replacing them.

With the new legislation coming in we are looking at 2 stroke vs 4
stroke. I am aware that few people use 4 strokes on inflatables and
fewer would manhandle them down beaches removing and replacing them
daily as we do.

Does anyone have any experience of using 4 strokes on inflatable boats
in this way? Are there any implcations to the angle you can carry/store
them?

Thanks in advance for your advice

Anthony Whittaker

2 stroke / 4 stroke advice
 

"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
...
On 21 Nov 2006 19:32:02 -0600, Dave
wrote:

On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 00:58:01 GMT, "Gordon Wedman"
said:

and don't some of those 2 strokes have fuel-to-oil
ratios approaching 100:1
?
Not a lot of pollution there.

Tut, tut. Never challenge the religion of a true
believer.

If your car burned a quart of oil with every 25 gallons of
gas, you'd be
shopping for a new car.

Not if it was a 2 stroke.

SBV

2 stroke / 4 stroke advice
 

Are you off your meds again :-)

Larry wrote:
"ajw" wrote in
ups.com:

Are there any implcations to the angle you can carry/store
them?


Yes. In any engine with loose lube oil inside it, you can only tilt,
carry and store it in certain locations. If, for instance, you were to
store it so the oil ran up against the bottom of the pistons, oil would
get past the rings into the top of the cylinders, after a time as they
are not hermetically sealed. It could become hydrolocked with lube oil,
which would bend the rods trying to get it past TDC on the compression
stroke with the valves closed. If the oil in the crankcase ran out the
crankcase vents in another position, what a mess. Cranking that would be
running the engine way low on lube oil, the oil that ran out now missing
from where it is needed.

The permissible carrying and storage positions designed into the portable
4-stroke outboards is defined in the owner's manual. Check that before
buying them. They are also much more complex and heavy than the
simplistic 2-strokers with no valve trains, camshafts, etc. a 4-stroker
must have. How far down the beach did you say you had to carry these
beasts? It's also an issue.

I tried to quote from Mercury or Evinrude from a downloaded owner's
manual, but both websites tried to force me to install Flash players so
they could run code on my computer to spy on me, which I will not permit,
and, once that was bypassed, informed me I had to already be an owner to
download an Evinrude owner's manual, making me question, "What are they
hiding?", as it costs them nothing to let me have a look, being a
potential customer.



Larry
--
Turkeys will be cheaper, Friday morning...(sigh)

2 stroke / 4 stroke advice
 

With the new legislation coming in we are looking at 2 stroke vs 4
stroke. I am aware that few people use 4 strokes on inflatables and
fewer would manhandle them down beaches removing and replacing them
daily as we do.
Does anyone have any experience of using 4 strokes on inflatable boats
in this way? Are there any implcations to the angle you can carry/store
them?

I have replaced a small auxiliary outboard on my trailer sailer with a
4-stroke, it's heavier, seems a little less powerful, quieter, far more
economic & easier to start. I've never carried it anywhere a beach but
its a pain to get into the tender.... (They aren't called tender for
nothing)

My club has recently bought a 5m rib with a 4-stroke 40 on the back to
'patrol' the races. Its nice, but the engine IS heavy, is more
economical, less fast, more quiet (See a pattern here?) My only gripe
is that once you've rescued someone, with the rescued dinghy alongside
and 3 people on board, the thing won't plane.

Unless you have light divers with light diving gear and light lead
weights, I'd recommend you buy a 4-stroke 60 for the back of your new
boat. It'll still use less fuel and you should leave it bolted to the
back of the boat, anyway.

Artie

2 stroke / 4 stroke advice
 

On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 00:58:01 +0000, Gordon Wedman wrote:

and don't some of those 2 strokes have fuel-to-oil ratios approaching 100:1
?
Not a lot of pollution there.

Oh, really? How much pollution is a lot? (Yes, that's a rhetorical
question.)

Matt O.

2 stroke / 4 stroke advice
 

On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 13:13:14 -0800, ajw wrote:

I am a member of a Scuba diving club and we are investigating replacing
our outboard engines.

We currently have two Zodiac 5m inflatable boats (not RIBs) with 40HP 2
stroke Mariner outboards. These are reaching the end of their lives and
we are looking at replacing them.

With the new legislation coming in we are looking at 2 stroke vs 4
stroke. I am aware that few people use 4 strokes on inflatables and
fewer would manhandle them down beaches removing and replacing them
daily as we do.

4 strokes are more efficient, reliable, quieter, and cleaner than 2
strokes, but they are heavier. However, a newer 4 stroke may be lighter
than an older 2 stroke. So look at specs when you shop.

I believe there are newer 2 strokes that meet environmental
regs -- I don't know about in your size/power range though.

Comparing specs is one thing, but consider what's available to you
locally, parts and service wise. Everything's a compromise.

Does anyone have any experience of using 4 strokes on inflatable boats
in this way? Are there any implcations to the angle you can carry/store
them?

The small Hondas I've used can be laid on their side indefinitely. I
don't know about larger ones.

Matt O.

2 stroke / 4 stroke advice
 

My Honda 8HP had to be laid down a specific way.

SBV


"Matt O'Toole" wrote in message
g...
On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 13:13:14 -0800, ajw wrote:

I am a member of a Scuba diving club and we are
investigating replacing
our outboard engines.

We currently have two Zodiac 5m inflatable boats (not
RIBs) with 40HP 2
stroke Mariner outboards. These are reaching the end of
their lives and
we are looking at replacing them.

With the new legislation coming in we are looking at 2
stroke vs 4
stroke. I am aware that few people use 4 strokes on
inflatables and
fewer would manhandle them down beaches removing and
replacing them
daily as we do.

4 strokes are more efficient, reliable, quieter, and
cleaner than 2
strokes, but they are heavier. However, a newer 4 stroke
may be lighter
than an older 2 stroke. So look at specs when you shop.

I believe there are newer 2 strokes that meet
environmental
regs -- I don't know about in your size/power range
though.

Comparing specs is one thing, but consider what's
available to you
locally, parts and service wise. Everything's a
compromise.

Does anyone have any experience of using 4 strokes on
inflatable boats
in this way? Are there any implcations to the angle you
can carry/store
them?

The small Hondas I've used can be laid on their side
indefinitely. I
don't know about larger ones.

Matt O.

2 stroke / 4 stroke advice
 

Arturo Ui wrote:
snip
My club has recently bought a 5m rib with a 4-stroke 40 on the back to
'patrol' the races. Its nice, but the engine IS heavy, is more
economical, less fast, more quiet (See a pattern here?) My only gripe
is that once you've rescued someone, with the rescued dinghy alongside
and 3 people on board, the thing won't plane.

If it's all the same to you, I'd rather you didn't do 25kts with my
dinghy alongside... reminds me of a story I once heard of someone who
was towed in by an RAF launch...

However 40 doesn't seem an awful lot for a 5m RIB full of divers and
tanks. It seems to me if you get a bigger motor you won't have to run
it flat out all the time, so it'll last longer too. Not that I know a
lot about these things.

Andy

2 stroke / 4 stroke advice
 

"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 13:46:02 -0500, "Scotty"
wrote:

My Honda 8HP had to be laid down a specific way.

SBV


Did you find that a small inconvenience, or an
insurmountable obstacle, Scotty?

neither. it was no big deal. Do you think it would be for
you?



Is it more of a nuisance than having to carefully measure
and mix oil into the
gas, and keep it in a separate container for a 2-stroke
motor?


it was less of a nuisance than you are. I have several 2
stroke engines around here, so there's always a jug of pre
mix handy.

HTH
SBV

2 stroke / 4 stroke advice
 

4 strokes are great for a lot of reasons, but if fuel quality is
questionable, they can be more trouble than 2 strokes. I've had fuel
problems with a 9.9 Yamaha 4 stroke, and an ob mechanic said water or trash
caused more problems w/4 strokes because of the smaller jets.

"Matt O'Toole" wrote in message
g...
On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 13:13:14 -0800, ajw wrote:

I am a member of a Scuba diving club and we are investigating replacing
our outboard engines.

We currently have two Zodiac 5m inflatable boats (not RIBs) with 40HP 2
stroke Mariner outboards. These are reaching the end of their lives and
we are looking at replacing them.

With the new legislation coming in we are looking at 2 stroke vs 4
stroke. I am aware that few people use 4 strokes on inflatables and
fewer would manhandle them down beaches removing and replacing them
daily as we do.

4 strokes are more efficient, reliable, quieter, and cleaner than 2
strokes, but they are heavier. However, a newer 4 stroke may be lighter
than an older 2 stroke. So look at specs when you shop.

I believe there are newer 2 strokes that meet environmental
regs -- I don't know about in your size/power range though.

Comparing specs is one thing, but consider what's available to you
locally, parts and service wise. Everything's a compromise.

Does anyone have any experience of using 4 strokes on inflatable boats
in this way? Are there any implcations to the angle you can carry/store
them?

The small Hondas I've used can be laid on their side indefinitely. I
don't know about larger ones.

Matt O.

2 stroke / 4 stroke advice
 

"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 17:05:31 -0500, "Scotty"
wrote:

-0500, "Scotty"
wrote:

My Honda 8HP had to be laid down a specific way.

SBV


Did you find that a small inconvenience, or an
insurmountable obstacle, Scotty?

neither. it was no big deal. Do you think it would be for
you?

.
No. Not at all. My car requires that I park it right side
up as well. I've never
considered that a problem.

I'm surprised that you own a car.

SBV

2 stroke / 4 stroke advice
 

One of the things to avoid in laying a motor down is to get the prop higher than
the
engine head. In that case, water from the lower unit can seep up to the head
and
eventually cause the cylinders to seize up. Oil spillage is messy, but doesn't
result
in a very expensive repair job.

Sherwin D.

ajw wrote:

Hi

I am a member of a Scuba diving club and we are investigating replacing
our outboard engines.

We currently have two Zodiac 5m inflatable boats (not RIBs) with 40HP 2
stroke Mariner outboards. These are reaching the end of their lives and
we are looking at replacing them.

With the new legislation coming in we are looking at 2 stroke vs 4
stroke. I am aware that few people use 4 strokes on inflatables and
fewer would manhandle them down beaches removing and replacing them
daily as we do.

Does anyone have any experience of using 4 strokes on inflatable boats
in this way? Are there any implcations to the angle you can carry/store
them?

Thanks in advance for your advice

Anthony Whittaker

2 stroke / 4 stroke advice
 

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 16:43:49 -0500, Larry wrote:

Yes. In any engine with loose lube oil inside it, you can only tilt,
carry and store it in certain locations.


They ship 4 stroke Mercs "wet". Mine came in with everything ready to
go but the gasoline. I am not sure how they keep truckers from storing
them any damn way they want.

Label "this way up" ? :-)

ChrisR

2 stroke / 4 stroke advice
 

"chris" chris at yachtsmen.co.uk wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 16:43:49 -0500, Larry wrote:

Yes. In any engine with loose lube oil inside it, you can only tilt,
carry and store it in certain locations.


They ship 4 stroke Mercs "wet". Mine came in with everything ready to
go but the gasoline. I am not sure how they keep truckers from storing
them any damn way they want.

Label "this way up" ? :-)

Exactly. And this can be "enforced" by means of cheap sand-based
indicators which can be affixed to the box, from which you can tell
whether the box has been other than the right way up. If it has,
you refuse to accept delivery and the carrier gets sued by the sender.

2 stroke / 4 stroke advice
 

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 16:43:49 -0500, Larry
wrote:

Yes. In any engine with loose lube oil inside it, you
can only tilt,
carry and store it in certain locations.


They ship 4 stroke Mercs "wet". Mine came in with
everything ready to
go but the gasoline. I am not sure how they keep truckers
from storing
them any damn way they want.

labels.

2 stroke / 4 stroke advice
 

Mail sorters I know have this game: every day they find the parcel
with the most FRAGILE stickers and play football with it...


wrote:
On Fri, 24 Nov 2006 12:27:10 -0000, "chris" chris at yachtsmen.co.uk
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 16:43:49 -0500, Larry wrote:

Yes. In any engine with loose lube oil inside it, you can only tilt,
carry and store it in certain locations.


They ship 4 stroke Mercs "wet". Mine came in with everything ready to
go but the gasoline. I am not sure how they keep truckers from storing
them any damn way they want.

Label "this way up" ? :-)

ChrisR

Gee I never thought of that. So if I write "fragile" on the box my
mailman won't kick it off the back of the truck?

2 stroke / 4 stroke advice
 

Inno wrote:
Mail sorters I know have this game: every day they find the parcel
with the most FRAGILE stickers and play football with it...


Too bad some supervisor couldn't catch them, show them the door and give
the jobs to someone who'd appreciate same.

2 stroke / 4 stroke advice
 

It's called taking pride in your job. Contrary to what you might think about
truckers most of Us take pride in what we do and do it safely and
curtiously. I deliver sensitive electronics and computers for 10 years and
never had a damage claim ever, something I'm proud to be able to boast. And
so You know usually it's the guys in the warehouse that don't give a damn
and throw the stuff on the truck any ole way they can mostly union
employee's, so blame them not the truckers.
wrote in message
...
On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 16:43:49 -0500, Larry wrote:

Yes. In any engine with loose lube oil inside it, you can only tilt,
carry and store it in certain locations.


They ship 4 stroke Mercs "wet". Mine came in with everything ready to
go but the gasoline. I am not sure how they keep truckers from storing
them any damn way they want.

2 stroke / 4 stroke advice
 

On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 13:46:02 -0500, Scotty wrote:

My Honda 8HP had to be laid down a specific way.

Better than not being able to be laid down at all.

Matt O.

2 stroke / 4 stroke advice
 

Dave wrote:
On Fri, 24 Nov 2006 18:11:48 GMT, Don White said:


Too bad some supervisor couldn't catch them, show them the door and give
the jobs to someone who'd appreciate same.


What, and have a union boss raise a stink? It's go along and get along in
unionized govmint.


I worked in a union environment ..as a member of various unions for 33
years. That kind of crap wasn't tolerated... especially after the
pendelum swung back over to management in the 80's

2 stroke / 4 stroke advice
 

Chi Chi wrote:

It's called taking pride in your job. Contrary to what you might think about
truckers most of Us take pride in what we do and do it safely and
curtiously. I deliver sensitive electronics and computers for 10 years and
never had a damage claim ever, something I'm proud to be able to boast. And
so You know usually it's the guys in the warehouse that don't give a damn
and throw the stuff on the truck any ole way they can mostly union
employee's, so blame them not the truckers.

Trouble is, you work in a job where a small minority of people ruin
things for everyone else.

Just think what life must be like for an honest Gipsy.

Andy

2 stroke / 4 stroke advice
 

Dave wrote:
On Fri, 24 Nov 2006 21:52:04 GMT, Don White said:


I worked in a union environment ..as a member of various unions for 33
years. That kind of crap wasn't tolerated... especially after the
pendelum swung back over to management in the 80's


Ah, but here we're talking govmint workers' unions. (Well, quasi-govmint, I
suppose in the case of the PO.)

Somewhat similar to the 'Crown Corporation' I worked for.

2 stroke / 4 stroke advice
 

"Matt O'Toole" wrote in message
g...
On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 13:46:02 -0500, Scotty wrote:

My Honda 8HP had to be laid down a specific way.

Better than not being able to be laid down at all.

I stored it for Winter standing up in my garage on a wall
bracket. Takes less room that way.

SBV

2 stroke / 4 stroke advice
 

"Chi Chi" wrote in message
. com...
It's called taking pride in your job. Contrary to what you
might think about
truckers most of Us take pride in what we do and do it
safely and
curtiously. I deliver sensitive electronics and computers
for 10 years and
never had a damage claim ever, something I'm proud to be
able to boast.

Not a bad record, so far, rookie.

SBV

2 stroke / 4 stroke advice
 

"Garland Gray II" wrote in
:

4 strokes are great for a lot of reasons, but if fuel quality is
questionable, they can be more trouble than 2 strokes. I've had fuel
problems with a 9.9 Yamaha 4 stroke, and an ob mechanic said water or
trash caused more problems w/4 strokes because of the smaller jets.



Also, if you look back at the "good ol' days", remember when
"winterizing" the old 2-stroker meant hauling it up the dock and putting
it in the garage until spring? When you took it out in spring, just as
greasy as you put it away, it wasn't all rusted up coated with oil like
it always was. You poured PREMIX gas into it and drove away.

We have a Nissan 8hp 4-stroker for a Foldabote 12 on Lionheart. The carb
has been apart a few times, now, because it had raw gas in it that
evaporated into solid shellac, plugging the jets so it wouldn't start.
This wasn't an issue with the old PREMIX 2-stroker because the oil in the
gas DIDN'T evaporate and kept the stuff left in the carbs in LIQUID form
the new gas would simply remix with and away we went. My little Yamaha 3
with the gas tank on top is like that, too. It was stored for years and
the premix still kept it from solidifying to shellac.

Changing the oil on a marina dock or sailboat STILL sucks, too....

As to the 100:1 oilers...no thanks. 50:1 is too thin to oil crankcase
bearings, no matter now much greenies and the EPA hype it. When I sold
my 1997 Mercury Sport Jet 175hp-powered Sea Rayder, all 6 cylinders were
within 5 pounds of their original compression and ran great on 40:1
PREMIX, the troublesome Mercury plastic oil injection pump and system
having been removed as soon as I found out about the 2nd recall blowing
powerheads with NO LUBRICATION. That boat's still running and the engine
had well over 1000 hours on it....on PREMIX.

Larry
--
According to EPA, all lakes that have had 2-stroke engines running in
them for the last 100 years must be 6" deep in motor oil. See it?
Oil floats, ya know!

2 stroke / 4 stroke advice
 

"Don White" wrote in message
...
Inno wrote:
Mail sorters I know have this game: every day they find the parcel
with the most FRAGILE stickers and play football with it...


Too bad some supervisor couldn't catch them, show them the door and give
the jobs to someone who'd appreciate same.

Wouldn't make any difference if he did. The union wouldn't let him.



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

2 stroke / 4 stroke advice
 

Bob La Londe wrote:
"Don White" wrote in message
...

Inno wrote:

Mail sorters I know have this game: every day they find the parcel
with the most FRAGILE stickers and play football with it...


Too bad some supervisor couldn't catch them, show them the door and give
the jobs to someone who'd appreciate same.


Wouldn't make any difference if he did. The union wouldn't let him.


....and who do you think gave the union absolute protection...inept
management?

2 stroke / 4 stroke advice
 

As to the 100:1 oilers...no thanks. 50:1 is too thin to oil crankcase
bearings, no matter now much greenies and the EPA hype it. When I sold
my 1997 Mercury Sport Jet 175hp-powered Sea Rayder, all 6 cylinders were
within 5 pounds of their original compression and ran great on 40:1
PREMIX, the troublesome Mercury plastic oil injection pump and system
having been removed as soon as I found out about the 2nd recall blowing
powerheads with NO LUBRICATION. That boat's still running and the engine
had well over 1000 hours on it....on PREMIX.



I haven't seen any evidence to support this. Only outboards I've messed
with have been either 50:1 or 100:1, one of the latter is still going
strong at over 15 years old, and my V115 uses 50:1 and it still runs
great despite being almost 40 years old. Just how long do these things
have to last? Why use more oil than needed? That stuff is $$$.

2 stroke / 4 stroke advice
 

On Sat, 25 Nov 2006 21:29:23 -0500, Larry wrote:

"Garland Gray II" wrote in
:

4 strokes are great for a lot of reasons, but if fuel quality is
questionable, they can be more trouble than 2 strokes. I've had fuel
problems with a 9.9 Yamaha 4 stroke, and an ob mechanic said water or
trash caused more problems w/4 strokes because of the smaller jets.



Also, if you look back at the "good ol' days", remember when
"winterizing" the old 2-stroker meant hauling it up the dock and putting
it in the garage until spring? When you took it out in spring, just as
greasy as you put it away, it wasn't all rusted up coated with oil like
it always was. You poured PREMIX gas into it and drove away.

We have a Nissan 8hp 4-stroker for a Foldabote 12 on Lionheart. The carb
has been apart a few times, now, because it had raw gas in it that
evaporated into solid shellac, plugging the jets so it wouldn't start.
This wasn't an issue with the old PREMIX 2-stroker because the oil in the
gas DIDN'T evaporate and kept the stuff left in the carbs in LIQUID form
the new gas would simply remix with and away we went. My little Yamaha 3
with the gas tank on top is like that, too. It was stored for years and
the premix still kept it from solidifying to shellac.

Changing the oil on a marina dock or sailboat STILL sucks, too....

As to the 100:1 oilers...no thanks. 50:1 is too thin to oil crankcase
bearings, no matter now much greenies and the EPA hype it. When I sold
my 1997 Mercury Sport Jet 175hp-powered Sea Rayder, all 6 cylinders were
within 5 pounds of their original compression and ran great on 40:1
PREMIX, the troublesome Mercury plastic oil injection pump and system
having been removed as soon as I found out about the 2nd recall blowing
powerheads with NO LUBRICATION. That boat's still running and the engine
had well over 1000 hours on it....on PREMIX.

Larry




In the GOOD OLD DAYS gas was not 10 percent alchol and contained lead
in major quanities. Oh by the way the EPA problem with 2 strokes is
not so much the oil in the water but in the air.

2 stroke / 4 stroke advice
 

James Sweet wrote in news:41bah.6528$IW2.934
@trndny03:

Why use more oil than needed?

My interest was more in protecting the engine from oil injection FAILURES
Mercury has had than in longevity. 40:1 is only 1 quart to 10 gallons, 40
gallons per gallon of oil. If you kept away from the OEM-branded oils at
awful prices and stuck to the major oil company brands, who make the OEM
oils anyways, and bought by the case...ESPECIALLY on any discounted
sales...it wasn't bad on price. I burned a couple of quarts on a weekend
buzzing around and towing the kids....

Your experience with 15 year old 2-strokers, I'm afraid, has come to an
end. They invented Ficht and Optimax and pretty much put a stop to long-
running 2-stroke motors...(c;

Oil injection can't fail if it's dumped in the gas tank to begin with....

Larry
--
Guess what I want to do with the Little Drummer Boy's drum
by Christmas Eve....rrrrump..pa-pum...pum...up his bum....

2 stroke / 4 stroke advice
 

2 stroke / 4 stroke advice
 

Larry,
I guess that you have not noticed that:
A-Logic has little to do with environmental regulations.
B-Much of the world is trying anything they can to shut down the best
economy in the history of the world.

The old 2 strokes were dirty engines. (I did some of the testing.) Their
hydrocarbon emissions were outrageous. Anything that gets lubricated
like an old 2-stroke won't wear out any time soon, but I have been on a
could of mountain lakes that had an oil slick the likes of a tanker
spill.
For calibration, when I was working in one of those labs, the crew that
was doing the evaporative emissions testing put the office Christmas
tree into one of the evap sheds - It Didn't Pass -

Many of the world's vocal liberals are very down on the good old USofA
because we have something like 10% of the population and use 30% of the
fossil fuel. They don't happen to notice that this produces 40+% of the
worlds productivity and 15% of the worlds pollution*. (*Not including
CO2) (The quoted statistics are close but not exact.)

China has not been asked to reduce anything and they are still running
wood fired steam locomotives and have the fastest declining air quality
in the world. It is so bad that some coaches are expecting to have to
shut some of the events at the next Olympics down because of the
pollution.

Why do you think Motorcycles are now required to have catalytic
converters?

Why do liberals think that a Hybrid vehicle is a better answer than a
diesel?

Why do they make noise about dependence on foreign oil and not let
anybody go get what we have. (Canada has wells in most of the great
lakes - we aren't allowed to, Cuba will soon be using Chinese
investment to drill under the Florida straight - we can't do that either.)

Matt Colie - environmentally conscious but educated and realistic


Larry wrote:
wrote in news:fufim2het1capo2e7k4p6kitgmq7vhtc3b@
4ax.com:


Oh by the way the EPA problem with 2 strokes is
not so much the oil in the water but in the air.


I wonder how that works?? Oil doesn't evaporate so it's not vapor
pollution. I suppose the tiny bit of smoke trailing an outboard motor is
pollution, probably .00000001% of what pours out of a single smoke stack
at your electric plant, 24/7/365.

Dead out on the river, 20 miles from the trailer, I want the simplest 2-
stroke outboard with the fewest failing parts that a guy standing in the
mud behind it along the banks can figure out what's wrong and patch it up
to get home. No valves, no belts, minimal pumps, simple carburetion,
hand startable (if necessary)....the motor with the fewest failure modes
almost anyone with any sense can get running. A 2-stroke needs:
A - Fuel
B - Spark
C - Cooling
D - Prop

Everything else is fluff.

Every one of them needs a primer bulb, a fantastic troubleshooting tool
for the fuel system and emergency fuel pump if the diaphram fails in
their pulse pump. It amazes me the number of people who just sit there
staring into it and don't THINK about what that little bulb can tell them
if they'd just pump it and think about what is happening. I've helped
lots of stranded boaters with it. "Pump the bulb for me.", I ask. "It
squeezes but doesn't come back out.", he says. "Turn on the fuel shutoff
valve.", I say...and away they go. "It pumps real easy.", he says.
"Here, let me loan you some gas.", I respond. "It pumps and I see gas in
the water behind the motor.", he says. "Your fuel pump diaphram has a
hole in it pumping gas into one cylinder, flooding it....or the carb
float is stuck. Pull the cover and we'll bypass the pump. You can
squeeze the bulb while running it home." So easy....even on a carb'd 4-
stroker.

Impossible to fix on fuel injection and other high tech nonsense....

Larry