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More info on abandoned yacht
I received a few additional e-mails from my friend, who is a friend of
the people that abandoned the Erikson 47 a few days ago: --------------------------------------------- A fair number of yachts head south in November on the theory that the chance of hurricanes is pretty much nil. Of course the chances of autumnal gales increase. We knew a merchant captain who claimed the best time was around Christmas for a shot to Bermuda. (It often seems there is a lull around the first of the year though it is usually quite cold til across the Gulf stream. Our friends had hired a weather router and I watched the charts casually and thought they picked a reasonable time but the weather these days is quite volatile. I would hope the weather router is at least very embarrassed. The boat had a 70ft mast so the ICW was off limits to them. In retrospect they should have gone: NS to Cape Cod to Block to Cape May to Norfolk and then to Bermuda but.... I will be interested to hear Brian's post mortem. -------------------------------------------- [asked if its OK to post his comments] Sure, go ahead, but I'm not really qualified to comment about offshore sailing. Ask me about the time of year to scoff moorings:-) BTW the boat was apparently abandoned in floating condition. Knowing the boat I think it was a reasonable decision from a practical and financial standpoint. The boat was old and well raced. The rig was rod with a very high tech mast almost impossible to replace at any reasonable cost. So basically I agree with the abandonment from a financial standpoint. Also the presence of crew with a broken arm presumably beyond helicopter evacuation range plays a role. Once again I don't know the precise circumstances or Brians thoughts at the time. They were all experienced and I trust their abilities to make informed decisions so if you quote me please don't do it in a manner which would embarrass my friends. But I doubt you would! If there is a lesson to be derived from these three abandonments I think it is that the usual weather guides may no longer be valid given the general unpredictability of weather over the last 5 -10 years or so. I think offshore sailing may be riskier. And communications have made abandonment very easy. ---------------------------------------------- and finally, this link: http://www.herald.ns.ca/NovaScotia/540343.html |
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It's amazing how many boats that are abandoned are later found
floating in survivable condition. Boats are generally tougher than the crews these days. Being able to call for help no doubt effects the decision making process. I think the statistic (based on being a researcher into sailing vessel safety 20 years ago) is that 4 out of 5 abandoned vessels don't actually sink. Something to think about before you spend thousands of dollars of the tax payers money to leave your dream behind. It happened to a friend's boat last year. It was towed in by an LNG ship. Aside from all the cushions being soaked and a bent bow pulpit (from the tow line), it didn't look any worse than after a two week cruise in Maine. As he quipped, "As soon as they stopped trying to steer it, it did just fine." -- Roger Long "Jeff" wrote in message . .. I received a few additional e-mails from my friend, who is a friend of the people that abandoned the Erikson 47 a few days ago: --------------------------------------------- A fair number of yachts head south in November on the theory that the chance of hurricanes is pretty much nil. Of course the chances of autumnal gales increase. We knew a merchant captain who claimed the best time was around Christmas for a shot to Bermuda. (It often seems there is a lull around the first of the year though it is usually quite cold til across the Gulf stream. Our friends had hired a weather router and I watched the charts casually and thought they picked a reasonable time but the weather these days is quite volatile. I would hope the weather router is at least very embarrassed. The boat had a 70ft mast so the ICW was off limits to them. In retrospect they should have gone: NS to Cape Cod to Block to Cape May to Norfolk and then to Bermuda but.... I will be interested to hear Brian's post mortem. -------------------------------------------- [asked if its OK to post his comments] Sure, go ahead, but I'm not really qualified to comment about offshore sailing. Ask me about the time of year to scoff moorings:-) BTW the boat was apparently abandoned in floating condition. Knowing the boat I think it was a reasonable decision from a practical and financial standpoint. The boat was old and well raced. The rig was rod with a very high tech mast almost impossible to replace at any reasonable cost. So basically I agree with the abandonment from a financial standpoint. Also the presence of crew with a broken arm presumably beyond helicopter evacuation range plays a role. Once again I don't know the precise circumstances or Brians thoughts at the time. They were all experienced and I trust their abilities to make informed decisions so if you quote me please don't do it in a manner which would embarrass my friends. But I doubt you would! If there is a lesson to be derived from these three abandonments I think it is that the usual weather guides may no longer be valid given the general unpredictability of weather over the last 5 -10 years or so. I think offshore sailing may be riskier. And communications have made abandonment very easy. ---------------------------------------------- and finally, this link: http://www.herald.ns.ca/NovaScotia/540343.html |
More info on abandoned yacht
"Roger Long" wrote in news:4EN5h.15970$xw1.5156
@twister.nyroc.rr.com: It happened to a friend's boat last year. It was towed in by an LNG ship. Aside from all the cushions being soaked and a bent bow pulpit (from the tow line), it didn't look any worse than after a two week cruise in Maine. As he quipped, "As soon as they stopped trying to steer it, it did just fine." I remember reading a story about a boat the owner abandoned off California in a terrible storm. Several years later, some fishermen dragged it into Hawaii and CG called them to come get it. You're right about the steering. It must have been a long voyage to Hawaii in the current. The story said the bilge pump was still working off the solar-charged batteries! Wonder how many storms it went through with noone steering over those years? It was fine.... Do they have to pay the insurance company back to keep from being prosecuted for insurance fraud when that happens? I've often wondered how many abandonments actually involved insurance fraud, trying to get more money out of a boat than the market was willing to pay, if anything....It's a point. Larry -- My calendar must be wrong.... In all the stores, it's ALREADY Christmas! |
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On Sun, 12 Nov 2006 22:56:00 GMT, "Roger Long"
wrote: It happened to a friend's boat last year. It was towed in by an LNG ship. Aside from all the cushions being soaked and a bent bow pulpit (from the tow line), it didn't look any worse than after a two week cruise in Maine. As he quipped, "As soon as they stopped trying to steer it, it did just fine." What was the nature of his "distress"? One of the problems with calling the USCG for an injury situation is that they can order everyone off the boat and it's no longer in your hands to make the abandon ship decision. |
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"Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Sun, 12 Nov 2006 22:56:00 GMT, "Roger Long" wrote: It happened to a friend's boat last year. It was towed in by an LNG ship. Aside from all the cushions being soaked and a bent bow pulpit (from the tow line), it didn't look any worse than after a two week cruise in Maine. As he quipped, "As soon as they stopped trying to steer it, it did just fine." What was the nature of his "distress"? One of the problems with calling the USCG for an injury situation is that they can order everyone off the boat and it's no longer in your hands to make the abandon ship decision. Suppose you refuse to leave your vessel -- what can they do? Shoot you in order to save you? |
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Suppose you refuse to leave your vessel -- what can they do? Shoot you in order to save you? Of course they will not shoot you. They are up in a helicopter usually, and the only one close to your boat is the rescue diver. However, if you are a US citizen, and you refuse orders to abandon boat, two things will likely happen. 1) If conditions get worse and you actually need to abandon ship you will be on your own. 2) When you get back to the US you may be facing an administrative hearing and a fine for disobeying a Coast Guard regulation about continuing an unsafe voyage. If you are not a US citizen, and don't land in the USA, then I'd think you'd probably be okay as long as Neptune didn't get you. YMMV, Don W. |
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On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 02:20:57 GMT, Don W
wrote: 2) When you get back to the US you may be facing an administrative hearing and a fine for disobeying a Coast Guard regulation about continuing an unsafe voyage. Or "disobeying a lawful order" or "obstruction of governmental administration" or some such. I would assume that the USCG rescue jumpers have had some training in how to deal with the uncooperative. I once asked a stewardess on a plane (pre 9/11) what would happen if I refused to give up my ticketed and confirmed seat that I was being bumped from. She was very quick to quote the list of potential offences that I could be charged with. Truth is that most people being asked to abandon ship by a rescue team have already been through hell and back, and are more than eager to comply even if the boat is in no immediate danger of going down. Typically the boat has already been dismasted and lost power. |
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I once asked a stewardess on a plane (pre 9/11) what would happen if I
refused to give up my ticketed and confirmed seat that I was being bumped from. She was very quick to quote the list of potential offences that I could be charged with. Well, I doubt that holds the same credibility as an order from the Coast Guard. But most folks aren't interested in the hassles of trying to argue with the idiots working the airline counters. And someone in a boating distress situation isn't terribly likely either. |
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Looks like I have missed a few of these posts.
Maybe my question has already been answered? Does boat insurance cover "abandonment". "Bill Kearney" wrote in message t... I once asked a stewardess on a plane (pre 9/11) what would happen if I refused to give up my ticketed and confirmed seat that I was being bumped from. She was very quick to quote the list of potential offences that I could be charged with. Well, I doubt that holds the same credibility as an order from the Coast Guard. But most folks aren't interested in the hassles of trying to argue with the idiots working the airline counters. And someone in a boating distress situation isn't terribly likely either. |
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Don,, you make good sense. If you call for help,,, you can't say "just
kidding" when the help arrives. On the other hand,,, many times the CG will drop a pump or take someone off a boat and the boat will continue on. I think the thing to remember:::::::::::::: don't get caught out in the muck in the first place. Plan, plan, plan .................... and when your done planning .............. Start planning. === "Don W" wrote in message t... Suppose you refuse to leave your vessel -- what can they do? Shoot you in order to save you? Of course they will not shoot you. They are up in a helicopter usually, and the only one close to your boat is the rescue diver. However, if you are a US citizen, and you refuse orders to abandon boat, two things will likely happen. 1) If conditions get worse and you actually need to abandon ship you will be on your own. 2) When you get back to the US you may be facing an administrative hearing and a fine for disobeying a Coast Guard regulation about continuing an unsafe voyage. If you are not a US citizen, and don't land in the USA, then I'd think you'd probably be okay as long as Neptune didn't get you. YMMV, Don W. |
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In article ,
"KLC Lewis" wrote: "Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Sun, 12 Nov 2006 22:56:00 GMT, "Roger Long" wrote: It happened to a friend's boat last year. It was towed in by an LNG ship. Aside from all the cushions being soaked and a bent bow pulpit (from the tow line), it didn't look any worse than after a two week cruise in Maine. As he quipped, "As soon as they stopped trying to steer it, it did just fine." What was the nature of his "distress"? One of the problems with calling the USCG for an injury situation is that they can order everyone off the boat and it's no longer in your hands to make the abandon ship decision. Suppose you refuse to leave your vessel -- what can they do? Shoot you in order to save you? No, if you refuse to leave, they just go HOME and leave you to your own devices. |
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In article ,
Larry wrote: "Roger Long" wrote in news:4EN5h.15970$xw1.5156 @twister.nyroc.rr.com: It happened to a friend's boat last year. It was towed in by an LNG ship. Aside from all the cushions being soaked and a bent bow pulpit (from the tow line), it didn't look any worse than after a two week cruise in Maine. As he quipped, "As soon as they stopped trying to steer it, it did just fine." I remember reading a story about a boat the owner abandoned off California in a terrible storm. Several years later, some fishermen dragged it into Hawaii and CG called them to come get it. You're right about the steering. It must have been a long voyage to Hawaii in the current. The story said the bilge pump was still working off the solar-charged batteries! Wonder how many storms it went through with noone steering over those years? It was fine.... Do they have to pay the insurance company back to keep from being prosecuted for insurance fraud when that happens? I've often wondered how many abandonments actually involved insurance fraud, trying to get more money out of a boat than the market was willing to pay, if anything....It's a point. Larry If the Insurance Company paid off on the boat, it no longer belongs to the person, but to the Insurance Company. It is their, the Insurance Companys, responcibility to deal with the Hull and Salvage, at that point. |
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"Larry" wrote in message
... Gogarty wrote in : Well, if the boat were owned by a Jewish banker, then obviously it's fraud. Jew bankers don't drive their boats. They have them crewed to the next port, then fly in and use them for a dock condo and whorehouse until they have to get back to the office. Crews drive Jew bankers' boats from port to port....(c; Larry -- JC Penney thinks Christmas is a Jewish Holiday! Why don't you take your racist comments somewhere else. Besides being vile, it has nothing to do with sailing. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
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Gogarty wrote in
: Well, if the boat were owned by a Jewish banker, then obviously it's fraud. Jew bankers don't drive their boats. They have them crewed to the next port, then fly in and use them for a dock condo and whorehouse until they have to get back to the office. Crews drive Jew bankers' boats from port to port....(c; Larry -- JC Penney thinks Christmas is a Jewish Holiday! |
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I think the statistic (based on being a
researcher into sailing vessel safety 20 years ago) is that 4 out of 5 abandoned vessels don't actually sink. Something to think about before you spend thousands of dollars of the tax payers money to leave your dream behind. The boat may not sink, but may be unsafe for people to stay onboard. A yacht in violent seas is very dangerous. Lots of ways to severely injure a human made of soft tissue. The boat may survive, but the bodies inside can be severely broken up. A skipper must also weigh calling for help at such time as the boat will surely be afloat when rescue arrives versus waiting until moments before submerging to call, when the crew will be in the water for a long time before help arrives. Also can be difficult to predict just when the boat will go under. Can reach a point of instability and sink very fast from that point on - much faster than it was up to that point. Better safe than sor- - er, um. dead. |
More info on abandoned yacht
This is a very complex subject.
During the Legendary Fasnet race boats were abandoned with people left for dead on board. After the storm the abandoned boat was located with the member of the crew that was left behind for dead found alive. wrote in message ... I think the statistic (based on being a researcher into sailing vessel safety 20 years ago) is that 4 out of 5 abandoned vessels don't actually sink. Something to think about before you spend thousands of dollars of the tax payers money to leave your dream behind. The boat may not sink, but may be unsafe for people to stay onboard. A yacht in violent seas is very dangerous. Lots of ways to severely injure a human made of soft tissue. The boat may survive, but the bodies inside can be severely broken up. A skipper must also weigh calling for help at such time as the boat will surely be afloat when rescue arrives versus waiting until moments before submerging to call, when the crew will be in the water for a long time before help arrives. Also can be difficult to predict just when the boat will go under. Can reach a point of instability and sink very fast from that point on - much faster than it was up to that point. Better safe than sor- - er, um. dead. |
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Which boat was that?
wrote in message ... This is a very complex subject. During the Legendary Fasnet race boats were abandoned with people left for dead on board. After the storm the abandoned boat was located with the member of the crew that was left behind for dead found alive. wrote in message ... I think the statistic (based on being a researcher into sailing vessel safety 20 years ago) is that 4 out of 5 abandoned vessels don't actually sink. Something to think about before you spend thousands of dollars of the tax payers money to leave your dream behind. The boat may not sink, but may be unsafe for people to stay onboard. A yacht in violent seas is very dangerous. Lots of ways to severely injure a human made of soft tissue. The boat may survive, but the bodies inside can be severely broken up. A skipper must also weigh calling for help at such time as the boat will surely be afloat when rescue arrives versus waiting until moments before submerging to call, when the crew will be in the water for a long time before help arrives. Also can be difficult to predict just when the boat will go under. Can reach a point of instability and sink very fast from that point on - much faster than it was up to that point. Better safe than sor- - er, um. dead. |
More info on abandoned yacht
wrote in message
... This is a very complex subject. During the Legendary Fasnet race boats were abandoned with people left for dead on board. After the storm the abandoned boat was located with the member of the crew that was left behind for dead found alive. wrote in message ... I think the statistic (based on being a researcher into sailing vessel safety 20 years ago) is that 4 out of 5 abandoned vessels don't actually sink. Something to think about before you spend thousands of dollars of the tax payers money to leave your dream behind. The boat may not sink, but may be unsafe for people to stay onboard. A yacht in violent seas is very dangerous. Lots of ways to severely injure a human made of soft tissue. The boat may survive, but the bodies inside can be severely broken up. A skipper must also weigh calling for help at such time as the boat will surely be afloat when rescue arrives versus waiting until moments before submerging to call, when the crew will be in the water for a long time before help arrives. Also can be difficult to predict just when the boat will go under. Can reach a point of instability and sink very fast from that point on - much faster than it was up to that point. Better safe than sor- - er, um. dead. I also recall that some crew abandoned ship during that race because the conditions below were extemely dangerous.. all sorts of stuff flying about in the washing machine-style effect that can happen with capsizing over and over. I'm not saying they were any safer in a little raft, but I can see why they might have thought so. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
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"You" wrote in message ... In article , "KLC Lewis" wrote: Suppose you refuse to leave your vessel -- what can they do? Shoot you in order to save you? No, if you refuse to leave, they just go HOME and leave you to your own devices. Ah, but that would be the point, no? |
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If you haven't read "Fastnet, Force 10" recently, you should. Some of
the boats from which people were rescued were found after the storm to be floating well on their own. Others were found in pieces over the next several years. There was huge controversy then (and apparently now) whether you were better off in the boat or off. That debate was fueled by the abandonment of a boat by four sailors (leaving two behind for dead), only to have the men in the raft die when it broke apart and while trying to be picked up by a ship (a couple went under the screws, a horrible way to die). Other than Peter Goss, how many of us are willing to be repeatedly knocked down or rolled? Other than the safe advice never to get yourself into that position (and many Fastnet captains were critcized for sailing into a storm), my take is that you make the best call you can based upon the information presented. There were no good choices then and (if you are stuck in a storm), seldom are great choices now (none of us are clairvoyant). Sometimes the "weather signs" are wrong (Gordon Bok has a great song about a fisherman caught in such a storm) and sometimes the "safe" choices aren't. Just before Labor Day this year a worn out hurricane whipped up the East Coast. I was sailing from Rockland to Groton the week following and met a sailer who was limping home to Portsmouth. He had headed for land off New Jersey when he saw the storm coming and got beat to hell on the pilings to which he was tied. He wished (in hindsight) that he had stayed out and battened down. As well, most of us would assume some risk on our own, but the equation changes greatly when you are responsible for the safety of others, and those others are likely to have an opinion as to whether you should "go down with the ship." No boat is worth a life. Steve Hayes Maine |
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You need to grow up, because this isn't adult behavior.
-- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Larry" wrote in message ... "Capt. JG" wrote in : JC Penney thinks Christmas is a Jewish Holiday! Why don't you take your racist comments somewhere else. Besides being vile, it has nothing to do with sailing. What is racist about JC Penney, a Jew? Larry -- My calendar must be wrong.... In all the stores, it's ALREADY Christmas! |
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Not only did I read the book, but I heled deliver Turner's winning boat
Tenacious boat, renamed and under new ownership, years later in the Med. :-) Many of the boats found floating, crew gone, we totally trashed inside. On the other hand, the Satori (ala The Perfect Storm) survived quite nicely and washed up on a beach intact with little damage. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "steve_hayes_maine" wrote in message ups.com... If you haven't read "Fastnet, Force 10" recently, you should. Some of the boats from which people were rescued were found after the storm to be floating well on their own. Others were found in pieces over the next several years. There was huge controversy then (and apparently now) whether you were better off in the boat or off. That debate was fueled by the abandonment of a boat by four sailors (leaving two behind for dead), only to have the men in the raft die when it broke apart and while trying to be picked up by a ship (a couple went under the screws, a horrible way to die). Other than Peter Goss, how many of us are willing to be repeatedly knocked down or rolled? Other than the safe advice never to get yourself into that position (and many Fastnet captains were critcized for sailing into a storm), my take is that you make the best call you can based upon the information presented. There were no good choices then and (if you are stuck in a storm), seldom are great choices now (none of us are clairvoyant). Sometimes the "weather signs" are wrong (Gordon Bok has a great song about a fisherman caught in such a storm) and sometimes the "safe" choices aren't. Just before Labor Day this year a worn out hurricane whipped up the East Coast. I was sailing from Rockland to Groton the week following and met a sailer who was limping home to Portsmouth. He had headed for land off New Jersey when he saw the storm coming and got beat to hell on the pilings to which he was tied. He wished (in hindsight) that he had stayed out and battened down. As well, most of us would assume some risk on our own, but the equation changes greatly when you are responsible for the safety of others, and those others are likely to have an opinion as to whether you should "go down with the ship." No boat is worth a life. Steve Hayes Maine |
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One of the sailboat abandoned has been recovered and is tied safely to the
dock in Bermuda. The boat is bruised and battered and will be hauled out tomorrow. Check the news on TV for more details. "Capt. JG" wrote in message ... Not only did I read the book, but I heled deliver Turner's winning boat Tenacious boat, renamed and under new ownership, years later in the Med. :-) Many of the boats found floating, crew gone, we totally trashed inside. On the other hand, the Satori (ala The Perfect Storm) survived quite nicely and washed up on a beach intact with little damage. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "steve_hayes_maine" wrote in message ups.com... If you haven't read "Fastnet, Force 10" recently, you should. Some of the boats from which people were rescued were found after the storm to be floating well on their own. Others were found in pieces over the next several years. There was huge controversy then (and apparently now) whether you were better off in the boat or off. That debate was fueled by the abandonment of a boat by four sailors (leaving two behind for dead), only to have the men in the raft die when it broke apart and while trying to be picked up by a ship (a couple went under the screws, a horrible way to die). Other than Peter Goss, how many of us are willing to be repeatedly knocked down or rolled? Other than the safe advice never to get yourself into that position (and many Fastnet captains were critcized for sailing into a storm), my take is that you make the best call you can based upon the information presented. There were no good choices then and (if you are stuck in a storm), seldom are great choices now (none of us are clairvoyant). Sometimes the "weather signs" are wrong (Gordon Bok has a great song about a fisherman caught in such a storm) and sometimes the "safe" choices aren't. Just before Labor Day this year a worn out hurricane whipped up the East Coast. I was sailing from Rockland to Groton the week following and met a sailer who was limping home to Portsmouth. He had headed for land off New Jersey when he saw the storm coming and got beat to hell on the pilings to which he was tied. He wished (in hindsight) that he had stayed out and battened down. As well, most of us would assume some risk on our own, but the equation changes greatly when you are responsible for the safety of others, and those others are likely to have an opinion as to whether you should "go down with the ship." No boat is worth a life. Steve Hayes Maine |
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"Capt. JG" wrote in
: JC Penney thinks Christmas is a Jewish Holiday! Why don't you take your racist comments somewhere else. Besides being vile, it has nothing to do with sailing. What is racist about JC Penney, a Jew? Larry -- My calendar must be wrong.... In all the stores, it's ALREADY Christmas! |
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You wrote in news:You-9CBBA6.10390413112006
@netnews.worldnet.att.net: If the Insurance Company paid off on the boat, it no longer belongs to the person, but to the Insurance Company. It is their, the Insurance Companys, responcibility to deal with the Hull and Salvage, at that point. I wonder how cheap you could buy it from them for. I buy quite a few musical instruments from them for 2-5c on the dollar that "can't be repaired". Larry -- My calendar must be wrong.... In all the stores, it's ALREADY Christmas! |
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Yes,
"Howard" wrote in message rvers.com... Do you know which one it was? I'm presuming it was the MAGIQUE. wrote: One of the sailboat abandoned has been recovered and is tied safely to the dock in Bermuda. The boat is bruised and battered and will be hauled out tomorrow. Check the news on TV for more details. "Capt. JG" wrote in message ... Not only did I read the book, but I heled deliver Turner's winning boat Tenacious boat, renamed and under new ownership, years later in the Med. :-) Many of the boats found floating, crew gone, we totally trashed inside. On the other hand, the Satori (ala The Perfect Storm) survived quite nicely and washed up on a beach intact with little damage. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "steve_hayes_maine" wrote in message ups.com... If you haven't read "Fastnet, Force 10" recently, you should. Some of the boats from which people were rescued were found after the storm to be floating well on their own. Others were found in pieces over the next several years. There was huge controversy then (and apparently now) whether you were better off in the boat or off. That debate was fueled by the abandonment of a boat by four sailors (leaving two behind for dead), only to have the men in the raft die when it broke apart and while trying to be picked up by a ship (a couple went under the screws, a horrible way to die). Other than Peter Goss, how many of us are willing to be repeatedly knocked down or rolled? Other than the safe advice never to get yourself into that position (and many Fastnet captains were critcized for sailing into a storm), my take is that you make the best call you can based upon the information presented. There were no good choices then and (if you are stuck in a storm), seldom are great choices now (none of us are clairvoyant). Sometimes the "weather signs" are wrong (Gordon Bok has a great song about a fisherman caught in such a storm) and sometimes the "safe" choices aren't. Just before Labor Day this year a worn out hurricane whipped up the East Coast. I was sailing from Rockland to Groton the week following and met a sailer who was limping home to Portsmouth. He had headed for land off New Jersey when he saw the storm coming and got beat to hell on the pilings to which he was tied. He wished (in hindsight) that he had stayed out and battened down. As well, most of us would assume some risk on our own, but the equation changes greatly when you are responsible for the safety of others, and those others are likely to have an opinion as to whether you should "go down with the ship." No boat is worth a life. Steve Hayes Maine |
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On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 15:18:17 -0500, Larry wrote:
Jew bankers don't drive their boats. They have them crewed to the next port, then fly in and use them for a dock condo and whorehouse until they have to get back to the office. Crews drive Jew bankers' boats from port to port....(c; alright, that's quite enough of this puerile ****. *plonk* |
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That's it ,,, a sure sign ,,, you must be a Freemason, Jew Banker ....
Anyone who would use the word "puerile" here is definitely a Freemason Jew Banker... After reading the writings and thoughts of Larry, Sailboat Guy ... and finding out that the world is run by a Freemason Jew Banker I am changing the name of my boat.. Yup,,, the old name must go. My new name? "I love Freemason Jew Bankers". Why not, it they have all the money and run everything then I am getting onboard ( get it ,, onboard ). Next time I enter a harbor, some guy wearing a yarmulke will be waiting for me with mooring line in hand. He will say "dock over here Captain". "no cost for you". "those women over there are for your pleasure, f'm all free". "do you need any drugs, money, anything"? If you see a boat with a big sign that says "this freemason Jew boat is rockin don't come a knockin" .. that will be me. Should I conceal to the freemason Jews that I am Irish ................... naw.. ========== "mr.b" wrote in message ... On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 15:18:17 -0500, Larry wrote: Jew bankers don't drive their boats. They have them crewed to the next port, then fly in and use them for a dock condo and whorehouse until they have to get back to the office. Crews drive Jew bankers' boats from port to port....(c; alright, that's quite enough of this puerile ****. *plonk* |
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steve_hayes_maine wrote: If you haven't read "Fastnet, Force 10" recently, you should. Some of the boats from which people were rescued were found after the storm to be floating well on their own. Steve Hayes Maine I found the following quote regarding the Fastnet Disaster of 1979. Make of it what you will........... Fastnet Disaster of 1979 Interview with Bill Burrows, Chief Engineer Royal Navy Lifeboat Institution. Retrieved three disabled sailboats in a 21 hour rescue during the fatal 1979 Fastnet Storm. "... Look, you get 300 Yachats in poor weather and you're going to have some trouble, almost certainly. But the majority of the trouble was hysteria created by the situation and by inexperienced crews. And that it was. They were blaming rudders and such, but none of those rudders would have snapped if they had put drogues out and storm jibs and run before the weather. They were under bare poles, most of them, and they were getting up on the seas. And the seas were about 45 feet. Not what we around here call big. They got up on these seas and they were running. When the boats were starting to broach, what the helmsmen were doing was hauling on the rudders to stop them from broaching. They were putting too much bloody strain on the rudders, and they had to go. Yes, I know they were racing sailors, not cruising men, but that's no excuse. We went out that night and we passed a little old hooker sort of thing with a family of kids aboard and they were going away to Ireland with no trouble at all...." |
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On 15 Nov 2006 10:56:55 -0800, "Bob" wrote:
steve_hayes_maine wrote: If you haven't read "Fastnet, Force 10" recently, you should. Some of the boats from which people were rescued were found after the storm to be floating well on their own. Steve Hayes Maine I found the following quote regarding the Fastnet Disaster of 1979. Make of it what you will........... A few beers? Fastnet Disaster of 1979 Interview with Bill Burrows, Chief Engineer Royal Navy Lifeboat Institution. http://www.rnli.org.uk/rnli_near_you...Scilly/history Retrieved three disabled sailboats in a 21 hour rescue during the fatal 1979 Fastnet Storm. "... Look, you get 300 Yachats in poor weather and you're going to have some trouble, almost certainly. But the majority of the trouble was hysteria created by the situation and by inexperienced crews. And that it was. They were blaming rudders and such, but none of those rudders would have snapped if they had put drogues out and storm jibs and run before the weather. They were under bare poles, most of them, and they were getting up on the seas. And the seas were about 45 feet. Not what we around here call big. They got up on these seas and they were running. When the boats were starting to broach, what the helmsmen were doing was hauling on the rudders to stop them from broaching. They were putting too much bloody strain on the rudders, and they had to go. Yes, I know they were racing sailors, not cruising men, but that's no excuse. We went out that night and we passed a little old hooker sort of thing with a family of kids aboard and they were going away to Ireland with no trouble at all...." |
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The feedbacks collected from the Fastnet Disaster of 1979 have contributed
to design improvement on many sailboats. Simple things like positive locks on cockpit lockers, ice boxes, port holes and many other openings have been incorporated in the aftermath production of sailboats. One thing to consider is the credibility of weather reports and availability of electronic navigational aids at the time of the Fastnet Disaster of 1979. Today we would thing that the weather report are more dependable especially with the advent of computerized aids. Not quite so, the weather data is purchased in bulk and processed with computerized assisted programs and then broadcasted. The probability of the weather reports to always be 100 % right is by far remote. The pride of the weather forecasting person has been removed and replaced by the computers. When I got cut in Felix I had been waiting three days listening to the weather reports and recording the barometric pressure. Then when the weather reports were favourable I left the safe heaven to return home. Half a day after I was in 40 foot wave with white foam all over and the marine weather stations were still broadcasting fair weather. While the FM radio stations were broadcasting the closing of all beaches because of 40 foot waves. Then I contacted the coast Guard to learned that Felix had made a complete about turn and coming at me. When I took my marine weather course they did not tell me that a storm or hurricanes can make an about turn and come back. When people are saying, from their armchair, that they would have handled the situation better by doing this and that they should get involved on the water more often and live the rush of adrenaline and will to survive. "Goofball_star_dot_etal" wrote in message ... On 15 Nov 2006 10:56:55 -0800, "Bob" wrote: steve_hayes_maine wrote: If you haven't read "Fastnet, Force 10" recently, you should. Some of the boats from which people were rescued were found after the storm to be floating well on their own. Steve Hayes Maine I found the following quote regarding the Fastnet Disaster of 1979. Make of it what you will........... A few beers? Fastnet Disaster of 1979 Interview with Bill Burrows, Chief Engineer Royal Navy Lifeboat Institution. http://www.rnli.org.uk/rnli_near_you...Scilly/history Retrieved three disabled sailboats in a 21 hour rescue during the fatal 1979 Fastnet Storm. "... Look, you get 300 Yachats in poor weather and you're going to have some trouble, almost certainly. But the majority of the trouble was hysteria created by the situation and by inexperienced crews. And that it was. They were blaming rudders and such, but none of those rudders would have snapped if they had put drogues out and storm jibs and run before the weather. They were under bare poles, most of them, and they were getting up on the seas. And the seas were about 45 feet. Not what we around here call big. They got up on these seas and they were running. When the boats were starting to broach, what the helmsmen were doing was hauling on the rudders to stop them from broaching. They were putting too much bloody strain on the rudders, and they had to go. Yes, I know they were racing sailors, not cruising men, but that's no excuse. We went out that night and we passed a little old hooker sort of thing with a family of kids aboard and they were going away to Ireland with no trouble at all...." |
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If that was sarcasm, it was in very bad taste. I accept Gogarty's apology, but
I would have responded differently to this nut Larry. Dave wrote: On Wed, 15 Nov 2006 07:38:59 -0500, Gogarty said: My apologies. That was aimed at Larry, a bit too subtle and snide. Won't happen again. Oh boy, the Nazi's are crawling out from under their rocks again. Unfortunately, some in the group don't recognize sarcasm when they see it. I think most of us got your drift. |
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"sherwindu" wrote in message
... If that was sarcasm, it was in very bad taste. I accept Gogarty's apology, but I would have responded differently to this nut Larry. Dave wrote: On Wed, 15 Nov 2006 07:38:59 -0500, Gogarty said: My apologies. That was aimed at Larry, a bit too subtle and snide. Won't happen again. Oh boy, the Nazi's are crawling out from under their rocks again. Unfortunately, some in the group don't recognize sarcasm when they see it. I think most of us got your drift. Well, I'm usually considered dense, and I got it. :-) -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
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Dave wrote: On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 00:20:53 -0600, sherwindu said: If that was sarcasm, it was in very bad taste. Let me modify what I said before. Some in the group don't even understand what sarcasm is. Suppose I make some sarcastic remarks about your mother. Does that excuse me for showing poor taste? Sarcasm is a useful retort in some cases, but here it only emphasized certain stereotype images, which only added to the distastefullness of the whole exchange. |
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"sherwindu" wrote in message ... Dave wrote: On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 00:20:53 -0600, sherwindu said: If that was sarcasm, it was in very bad taste. Let me modify what I said before. Some in the group don't even understand what sarcasm is. Suppose I make some sarcastic remarks about your mother. Does that excuse me for showing poor taste? Sarcasm is a useful retort in some cases, but here it only emphasized certain stereotype images, which only added to the distastefullness of the whole exchange. In this case, isn't emphasizing certain stereotype images the very definition of the satire? |
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"Dave" wrote in message ... On Wed, 15 Nov 2006 07:38:59 -0500, Gogarty said: My apologies. That was aimed at Larry, a bit too subtle and snide. Won't happen again. Oh boy, the Nazi's are crawling out from under their rocks again. Unfortunately, some in the group don't recognize sarcasm when they see it. I think most of us got your drift. I did, and I'm thick. SBV |
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Do a Google search on ''sense of humor'', or 'humour' if
you're a Brit. SBV "sherwindu" wrote in message ... is. Suppose I make some sarcastic remarks about your mother. Does that excuse me for showing poor taste? Sarcasm is a useful retort in some cases, but here it only emphasized certain stereotype images, which only added to the distastefullness of the whole exchange. |
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