Budget max to buy is low $100k's. Annual budget would be in the
neighborhood of $25-30k.


Cap'n Ric wrote:
Annual budget of 30K for a power boat isn't much unless you plan on not
going very far.

Or get a boat that is fuel efficient (ie not a speedboat)
From what I have read, and talking to a lot of different
cruiser in both power & sail bost, there isn't a whole lot
of difference in the cost of cruising (unless you are
burning fuel to make ten tons of boat & furniture plane).

DSK

DSK wrote:

Budget max to buy is low $100k's. Annual budget would be in the
neighborhood of $25-30k.



Cap'n Ric wrote:

Annual budget of 30K for a power boat isn't much unless you plan on
not going very far.


Or get a boat that is fuel efficient (ie not a speedboat)
From what I have read, and talking to a lot of different cruiser in
both power & sail bost, there isn't a whole lot of difference in the
cost of cruising (unless you are burning fuel to make ten tons of boat &
furniture plane).

DSK



Though one can never rely on manufacturer's claims, the range of boats
we're looking at are single engine or small twin trawlers that seem to
burn well under 10gph with most quoted in the 4 - 7gph range. We don't
expect to break any speed records - in fact, maybe the idea behind a
cruise, at least for us, is the journey as much as the destination.
That may change in the long-run, but for now, that's the vision.

However, some factors that have been brought to our attention include
insurance and home slip. We have not taken these fully into
consideration. So we do need to pay more attention to these fixed costs
in our annual operating budget. We have a great deal on our current
slip and our insurance broker has done a very effective job to minimize
our costs.

We have some time, plenty of time, before we commit. I just hope the
current prices stay depressed until AFTER we make the purchase.

Cal Vanize wrote:
Though one can never rely on manufacturer's claims, the range of boats
we're looking at are single engine or small twin trawlers that seem to
burn well under 10gph with most quoted in the 4 - 7gph range.

We burn about 1 3/4 gph cruising about 7 to 7.5 knots. The
boat will (in theory) go 8.5 but fuel consumption starts
getting up into the 5gph range and we make a loke of wake
and foam and noise, for not a lot of speed gained.

http://sports.webshots.com/album/550708407IeSjaU

... We don't
expect to break any speed records - in fact, maybe the idea behind a
cruise, at least for us, is the journey as much as the destination. That
may change in the long-run, but for now, that's the vision.


Sure. There are too many great places, too close together,
to be worth rushing frantically from one to the next. We've
had cruises in NC and on the Chesapeake where we never went
more than 30 miles in a day and enjoyed beautiful anchorages
every night.


However, some factors that have been brought to our attention include
insurance and home slip. We have not taken these fully into
consideration. So we do need to pay more attention to these fixed costs
in our annual operating budget. We have a great deal on our current
slip and our insurance broker has done a very effective job to minimize
our costs.


And don't forget, cruising is best defined as "fixing your
boat in exotic & inconvenient locations." There will always
be unexpected expenses, but with good skills & foresight
they are not crippling.

IMHO 30K a year is do-able. People are out there cruising
for less.


We have some time, plenty of time, before we commit. I just hope the
current prices stay depressed until AFTER we make the purchase.


I think the price depression of the boat market is mostly a
matter of more realistic expectations on the part of sellers
who are trying to unload neglected boats. The top 10% of
boats in best condition seem to be selling readily. However,
I do think there are two long term factors (and they affect
more than just the boat market)

1- the golden age of retirement is over. Fewer & fewer
people are going to be able to afford to buy a boat and
cruise when they stop work (or just slow down).
1a- waterfront property is getting more & more expensive
driving up costs for marinas & facilities; boating expenses
are climb & it's going to be harder & harder to find
out-of-the-way Mom-N-Pop friendly marinas.

2- younger people are less & less interested in the outdoors
in general. The demand for boats (relative to the
population) is shrinking.

But hey, if it was all gonna be easy, it wouldn't be fun!

Fair Skies
Doug King

On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 11:36:48 -0500, DSK wrote:

We burn about 1 3/4 gph cruising about 7 to 7.5 knots. The
boat will (in theory) go 8.5 but fuel consumption starts
getting up into the 5gph range and we make a loke of wake
and foam and noise, for not a lot of speed gained.

Here's another data point:

On our Grand Banks 49 we average about 1 gallon per mile on extended
cruises unless we make a really concious effort to economize which can
save an additional 10 to 20%. That includes about 4 hours per day of
generator time, running on both engines, and using active stabilizers
virtually 100% of the time. Our average speed is about 8.5 kts,
slowing to about 7.9 if we are really trying to stretch the fuel.

Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 11:36:48 -0500, DSK wrote:

We burn about 1 3/4 gph cruising about 7 to 7.5 knots. The
boat will (in theory) go 8.5 but fuel consumption starts
getting up into the 5gph range and we make a loke of wake
and foam and noise, for not a lot of speed gained.

Here's another data point:

On our Grand Banks 49 we average about 1 gallon per mile on extended
cruises unless we make a really concious effort to economize which can
save an additional 10 to 20%. That includes about 4 hours per day of
generator time, running on both engines, and using active stabilizers
virtually 100% of the time. Our average speed is about 8.5 kts,
slowing to about 7.9 if we are really trying to stretch the fuel.

This doesn't seem quite right to me - my catamaran, which weighs about
15% of what your trawler weighs, uses almost as much fuel.

If you boat displaces 60000 pounds, then it will need about 60 HP to
get over 7 knots, 90 hp to get to 8.5 knots. Looking at specs for
various Caterpillar engines, the gallons/hour at 60 hp is 3+ gals.
Using two smaller engines doesn't help that much, though at least they
can idle with lower consumption.

Your number only make sense if you spend more time on average using
you engines to run the A/C than propel the boat.

On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 16:51:33 -0500, Jeff wrote:

This doesn't seem quite right to me - my catamaran, which weighs about
15% of what your trawler weighs, uses almost as much fuel.

If you boat displaces 60000 pounds, then it will need about 60 HP to
get over 7 knots, 90 hp to get to 8.5 knots. Looking at specs for
various Caterpillar engines, the gallons/hour at 60 hp is 3+ gals.
Using two smaller engines doesn't help that much, though at least they
can idle with lower consumption.

Your number only make sense if you spend more time on average using
you engines to run the A/C than propel the boat.

I'm not entirely sure that I understand your point. The numbers are
what they are, and yes, the boat weighs about 60,000 lbs.

The engines are twin Detroit 6-71s which are way bigger than what is
actually needed to run at 8.5 kts. I'm sure that introduces some
inefficiencies. The port side engine also drives a hydraulic pump for
the stabilizer system. It wouldn't surprise me if that took an
additional 10 to 20 hp, or about 1 gph. The primary generator is an
oversized 20 KW unit that uses about 1 gph on average but we do not
run it continuously except in hot weather.

The best we have ever done is about 6 gallons per hour running 7.9 kts
in flat water, and using the smaller backup generator as little as
possible.

Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 16:51:33 -0500, Jeff wrote:

This doesn't seem quite right to me - my catamaran, which weighs about
15% of what your trawler weighs, uses almost as much fuel.

If you boat displaces 60000 pounds, then it will need about 60 HP to
get over 7 knots, 90 hp to get to 8.5 knots. Looking at specs for
various Caterpillar engines, the gallons/hour at 60 hp is 3+ gals.
Using two smaller engines doesn't help that much, though at least they
can idle with lower consumption.

Your number only make sense if you spend more time on average using
you engines to run the A/C than propel the boat.

I'm not entirely sure that I understand your point. The numbers are
what they are, and yes, the boat weighs about 60,000 lbs.

The engines are twin Detroit 6-71s which are way bigger than what is
actually needed to run at 8.5 kts. I'm sure that introduces some
inefficiencies. The port side engine also drives a hydraulic pump for
the stabilizer system. It wouldn't surprise me if that took an
additional 10 to 20 hp, or about 1 gph. The primary generator is an
oversized 20 KW unit that uses about 1 gph on average but we do not
run it continuously except in hot weather.

The best we have ever done is about 6 gallons per hour running 7.9 kts
in flat water, and using the smaller backup generator as little as
possible.

Sorry - I read 1 GPM as 1 GPH! Doing about 8 GPH when approaching
hull speed is in line with my rules of thumb.

DSK inscribed in red ink for all to know:
Budget max to buy is low $100k's. Annual budget would be in the
neighborhood of $25-30k.



Cap'n Ric wrote:

Annual budget of 30K for a power boat isn't much unless you plan on
not going very far.


Or get a boat that is fuel efficient (ie not a speedboat)
From what I have read, and talking to a lot of different cruiser in
both power & sail bost, there isn't a whole lot of difference in the
cost of cruising (unless you are burning fuel to make ten tons of boat &
furniture plane).

DSK


I can only offer this direct, real-world comparison. Two years ago, we
(and our 50' ketch, Perkins 4-236 4 cyl diesel) made a month-long trip
from Seattle to Desolation Sound and back. During the same time frame,
friends of ours down the dock made essentially the same trip in their
55' (?) trawler-style power boat. Not sure of the power plants, but
they are also diesel. We burned 95 gallons of diesel over the course of
the month. The power boat burned 895 gallons of diesel.

bob
s/v Eolian
Seattle

RW Salnick wrote:
DSK inscribed in red ink for all to know:

Budget max to buy is low $100k's. Annual budget would be in the
neighborhood of $25-30k.




Cap'n Ric wrote:

Annual budget of 30K for a power boat isn't much unless you plan on
not going very far.



Or get a boat that is fuel efficient (ie not a speedboat)
From what I have read, and talking to a lot of different cruiser in
both power & sail bost, there isn't a whole lot of difference in the
cost of cruising (unless you are burning fuel to make ten tons of boat
& furniture plane).

DSK


I can only offer this direct, real-world comparison. Two years ago, we
(and our 50' ketch, Perkins 4-236 4 cyl diesel) made a month-long trip
from Seattle to Desolation Sound and back. During the same time frame,
friends of ours down the dock made essentially the same trip in their
55' (?) trawler-style power boat. Not sure of the power plants, but
they are also diesel. We burned 95 gallons of diesel over the course of
the month. The power boat burned 895 gallons of diesel.

bob
s/v Eolian
Seattle


How much time was spent under sail?

RW Salnick wrote:
I can only offer this direct, real-world comparison. Two years ago,
we (and our 50' ketch, Perkins 4-236 4 cyl diesel) made a month-long
trip from Seattle to Desolation Sound and back. During the same time
frame, friends of ours down the dock made essentially the same trip in
their 55' (?) trawler-style power boat. Not sure of the power plants,
but they are also diesel. We burned 95 gallons of diesel over the
course of the month. The power boat burned 895 gallons of diesel.


Cal Vanize wrote:
How much time was spent under sail?


Going at what speed?

Not meaning to be suspicious but a lot of "trawler style"
power boats these days are semi-planing hulls disguised to
look like tugboats.

If two boats of relatively similar LWL & displacement motor
at the same speed, their fuel consumption will generally be
pretty close to the same.

Now, how much did you spend on sails & running rigging, and
how much fuel would that amount buy?

DSK