lifelines with out PVC coating?
 

Has anyone done this? It seems like the PVC just contributes to life line
degradation. If so, what was your source for the wire/fittings?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

lifelines with out PVC coating?
 

Capt. JG wrote:
Has anyone done this? It seems like the PVC just contributes to life line
degradation. If so, what was your source for the wire/fittings?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Hi:

Excellent observation. That white PVC hides all sorts of problems.
I like the ability to visually inspect my wire
BOb

lifelines with out PVC coating?
 

"Bob" wrote in message
ups.com...

Capt. JG wrote:
Has anyone done this? It seems like the PVC just contributes to life line
degradation. If so, what was your source for the wire/fittings?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Hi:

Excellent observation. That white PVC hides all sorts of problems.
I like the ability to visually inspect my wire
BOb

It's kinda obvious when you see rust marks on the white PVC. :-)

I've seen some links for boat that advertise they have them, but I can't
seem to find a source.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

lifelines with out PVC coating?
 

I think I will replace mine with plain wire. The Genoa and I rub
against and grab the plain wire shrouds all the time without any sign
of a problem. I took the split PVC covers off the shrouds and was
amazed at the gunk underneath. Can't be good for a metal that needs a
replenishing supply of oxygen to avoid corrosion.

I've heard or seen something somewhere about using some of the new
super low stretch rope for lifelines.
Has anyone heard about that idea?

--

Roger Long



"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Has anyone done this? It seems like the PVC just contributes to life
line degradation. If so, what was your source for the wire/fittings?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

lifelines with out PVC coating?
 

I have been looking before to replace my life lines. In Canada, I found at
Canadian Tires, 9 strands Stainless wire labelled aircraft quality. On the
same rack was the same wire with vinyl covering marked $1.49 per foot.

I was ready to buy but I did not have the tools for splicing the (Pelican)
end connectors that hooks on the bow and stern pulpits.

I have seen some sailors using SS U-bolts to secure the connections to the
pulpits and stanchions. Not nautically elegant but safe.

Conversely West Marine are showing (Internet) as showing 304 Stainless Steel
1 X 19 Rigging Wire from $0.79 USD.



"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Bob" wrote in message
ups.com...

Capt. JG wrote:
Has anyone done this? It seems like the PVC just contributes to life
line
degradation. If so, what was your source for the wire/fittings?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Hi:

Excellent observation. That white PVC hides all sorts of problems.
I like the ability to visually inspect my wire
BOb

It's kinda obvious when you see rust marks on the white PVC. :-)

I've seen some links for boat that advertise they have them, but I can't
seem to find a source.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

lifelines with out PVC coating?
 

Roger Long wrote:
I think I will replace mine with plain wire. The Genoa and I rub
against and grab the plain wire shrouds all the time without any sign
of a problem. I took the split PVC covers off the shrouds and was
amazed at the gunk underneath. Can't be good for a metal that needs a
replenishing supply of oxygen to avoid corrosion.

I've heard or seen something somewhere about using some of the new
super low stretch rope for lifelines.
Has anyone heard about that idea?

I have seen many different parts of a boats rigging being replaced with
new high modulus ropes. The multihull world is embracing rope because
of the weight savings. They are certainly strong enough and look good
but the are a couple issues that warrant thought. First of all is the
UV degredation. It is much greater in any rope than in wire and
requires more frequent replacement. The second thing is nicks. Wire
will stand some abuse but a nicked rope will be much weaker. I have
seen a couple boat lose their rigs because of nicks in rope backstays.
Finally the splices in the new ropes are much more challenging and many
require special splices to ensure the strength isn't lost.

It is doable but think about pros and cons first.

Gary

lifelines with out PVC coating?
 

7x7 uncoated is hard to come by but 1x19 is fairly common. A good bit
stiffer but that shouldn't make much difference for lifelines.

I have 100' of 1/4" Amsteel Blue which I am considering using. Stronger,
easier to fabricate and a lot cheaper installed. If I can just get past
having blue lifelines. :-)

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Has anyone done this? It seems like the PVC just contributes to life line
degradation. If so, what was your source for the wire/fittings?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

lifelines with out PVC coating?
 

I've started a new thread about this because I think you bring up an
interesting topic [called "Rope as replacement for lifelines" and it is
just divergent enough to warrant that. I'd very much appreciate anyone
else's opinion or insight about this topic, and especially any
experience anyone has with it.


Gary wrote:
Roger Long wrote:

I think I will replace mine with plain wire. The Genoa and I rub
against and grab the plain wire shrouds all the time without any sign
of a problem. I took the split PVC covers off the shrouds and was
amazed at the gunk underneath. Can't be good for a metal that needs a
replenishing supply of oxygen to avoid corrosion.

I've heard or seen something somewhere about using some of the new
super low stretch rope for lifelines.
Has anyone heard about that idea?

I have seen many different parts of a boats rigging being replaced with
new high modulus ropes. The multihull world is embracing rope because
of the weight savings. They are certainly strong enough and look good
but the are a couple issues that warrant thought. First of all is the
UV degredation. It is much greater in any rope than in wire and
requires more frequent replacement. The second thing is nicks. Wire
will stand some abuse but a nicked rope will be much weaker. I have
seen a couple boat lose their rigs because of nicks in rope backstays.
Finally the splices in the new ropes are much more challenging and many
require special splices to ensure the strength isn't lost.

It is doable but think about pros and cons first.

Gary

lifelines with out PVC coating?
 

lifelines with out PVC coating?
 

"ray lunder" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 20:11:06 GMT, "Roger Long"

wrote:

My boat came with a strange continuous stranded fiberglass line
which
was covered with white plastic. It weighed practically nothing
and had
epoxied/screw-in connections; no bulky swages or clamps. The pvc
failed and cracked after 20 years and I could never find a
continuous,
unsplit run to cover it with again so I got the s.s. stuff. Much
heavier- less cool. One other option if you could find it.
(perhaps
the UK).

Sounds like 'Parafil'. Very light, very low stretch, easy to DIY
at appropriate lengths. See
http://www.linearcomposites.co.uk/prod_parafil.htm
I used it for several years while racing (hmm, err, in 1973 to
1979!) and once, while clipped to it, went for an inadvertent swim
for about 5 minutes at 7kts.

Since then they've developed several different versions using
different cores.

On my last boat the upper lines were plastic coated 9 strand
stainless, lower lines plain 9 strand stainless, both with swaged
eyes at each end. After 16 years the plastic was discolouring
brown due to UV deterioration on the upper side of the plastic.
One section (of four, I had a centre gate) had some rust stain
showing at a single location on a kink. I stripped the coating to
see what was going on and found a crack in one strand. The rest of
the wire was clean.

My assumption is that the plastic coating was sufficiently porous
to oxygen to permit chrome oxide coatings to exist on the wire,
though why that didn't apply where the crack was was not clear.

Replacing the wire was a bore, since the line threaded through the
stanchions, and the swages prevented removal! Bad maintenace
design. So I had to trot down to the rigger's shop with a whole
lot of stanchions etc in my arms.
--
JimB
http://www.jimbaerselman.f2s.com/
Describing some Greek and Spanish cruising areas

lifelines with out PVC coating?
 

"Capt. JG" wrote in news:12eh93v7qls6u04
@corp.supernews.com:

Has anyone done this? It seems like the PVC just contributes to life line
degradation. If so, what was your source for the wire/fittings?

Since this question is being posted in rec.boats.CRUISING instead of a racing
forum I'll point out that life lines are also used as clothes lines and
there's no way that any woman that I know of would hang clothes on a SS line
that probably has specks of rust on it. You probably would get a lot of
chaffing from uncoated wire also.

-- Geoff

lifelines with out PVC coating?
 

"Geoff Schultz" wrote in message
...
"Capt. JG" wrote in news:12eh93v7qls6u04
@corp.supernews.com:

Has anyone done this? It seems like the PVC just contributes to life line
degradation. If so, what was your source for the wire/fittings?

Since this question is being posted in rec.boats.CRUISING instead of a
racing
forum I'll point out that life lines are also used as clothes lines and
there's no way that any woman that I know of would hang clothes on a SS
line
that probably has specks of rust on it. You probably would get a lot of
chaffing from uncoated wire also.

-- Geoff

So, it's a good new/bad news situation. :-)

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

lifelines with out PVC coating?
 

wrote:
I have been looking before to replace my life lines. In Canada, I found at
Canadian Tires, 9 strands Stainless wire labelled aircraft quality. On the
same rack was the same wire with vinyl covering marked $1.49 per foot.

I was ready to buy but I did not have the tools for splicing the (Pelican)
end connectors that hooks on the bow and stern pulpits.

I have seen some sailors using SS U-bolts to secure the connections to the
pulpits and stanchions. Not nautically elegant but safe.

Conversely West Marine are showing (Internet) as showing 304 Stainless Steel
1 X 19 Rigging Wire from $0.79 USD.


What's that term... 'swaging'??
I had the rigger at the Binnacle swage mine two years ago.
http://ca.binnacle.com/index.php?cPath=409_403

lifelines with out PVC coating?
 

Thanks for the tip.
Not too far from the Binnacle is North Sail. They also do life lines. How
much did the Binnacle charged you for the swaging?
I'll check with them on my next trip, all I have to do is to be careful
about the new rule on the rotary;-)


"Don White" wrote in message
...
wrote:
I have been looking before to replace my life lines. In Canada, I found
at Canadian Tires, 9 strands Stainless wire labelled aircraft quality. On
the same rack was the same wire with vinyl covering marked $1.49 per
foot.

I was ready to buy but I did not have the tools for splicing the
(Pelican) end connectors that hooks on the bow and stern pulpits.

I have seen some sailors using SS U-bolts to secure the connections to
the pulpits and stanchions. Not nautically elegant but safe.

Conversely West Marine are showing (Internet) as showing 304 Stainless
Steel 1 X 19 Rigging Wire from $0.79 USD.


What's that term... 'swaging'??
I had the rigger at the Binnacle swage mine two years ago.
http://ca.binnacle.com/index.php?cPath=409_403

lifelines with out PVC coating?
 

wrote:
Thanks for the tip.
Not too far from the Binnacle is North Sail. They also do life lines. How
much did the Binnacle charged you for the swaging?
I'll check with them on my next trip, all I have to do is to be careful
about the new rule on the rotary;-)


"Don White" wrote in message
...

wrote:

I have been looking before to replace my life lines. In Canada, I found
at Canadian Tires, 9 strands Stainless wire labelled aircraft quality. On
the same rack was the same wire with vinyl covering marked $1.49 per
foot.

I was ready to buy but I did not have the tools for splicing the
(Pelican) end connectors that hooks on the bow and stern pulpits.

I have seen some sailors using SS U-bolts to secure the connections to
the pulpits and stanchions. Not nautically elegant but safe.

Conversely West Marine are showing (Internet) as showing 304 Stainless
Steel 1 X 19 Rigging Wire from $0.79 USD.


What's that term... 'swaging'??
I had the rigger at the Binnacle swage mine two years ago.
http://ca.binnacle.com/index.php?cPath=409_403



I've only gone through that rotary once since the 'new traffic circle'
rules. The thing worked for over 35K trips a day for 50 years. You'd
think they leave it alone...the excuse..the occasional tourist or
visitor got confused.

Anyway...I had 'Jim' provide some hardware (pelican hooks etc...and one
lifeline. can't remember if it all came to $60 something..or $90 something.
The original owner of my Sandpiper 565 had ordered the complete lifeline
package from CL Boatworks but lost one lifeline overboard. That was
it..nothing ever installed until I bought the boat.

lifelines with out PVC coating?
 

wrote
I'll check with them on my next trip, all I have to do is to be careful
about the new rule on the rotary;-)

Haven't been East for a while - What's the new rule on the rotary -
Starboard have right of way or Gross Tonnage rule?

lifelines

- 1x19 wire vs 7x7 plastic coated - In Europe, 1x19 plain wire is common
and practical - They call them guard rails. By way of an example:
http://www.s3i.co.uk/1x19PVC.php

Over here, we like the look of PVC coated wire.
http://www.bosunsupplies.com/product...?product=S0708

(There is a company that used to sell plastic covered lines with a fibre
core. They used a Norseman type end fitting. But they didn't look too strong
are hopefully no longer made.)

Either way (1x19 or 7x7), you need to buy end fittings and probably have
them machine swaged on. Even if you can use parts of your rigging screws and
pelican hooks, figure on at least $25.00 per fitting - This can add up,
especially if you have gates.

There are hand-crimp fittings that can be installed with a Nicopress tool -
Results don't look that good, especially when it's a DIY job.
http://www.bosunsupplies.com/product...ct=lifelinefit

Some older boats had chromed cast bronze end fittings that slid over the PVC
coated wire - all it takes to replace lifelines on these, is new wire and
copper nicopress stop fittings. May not be as strong as machine swaged
fittings, but thousands of boats still have these - including my own! Can't
find any reference to these on the web - may be a good reason?

Finally, a good reference to lifeline safety:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?W62322A9D

lifelines with out PVC coating?
 

Quote " Haven't been East for a while - What's the new rule on the rotary -
Starboard have right of way or Gross Tonnage rule?

It's not one-on-one behaviour any more, it's actually yield upon entry,"

Now: Drivers approaching the Armdale Rotary in Halifax now have to yield the
right of way to those already in the circle.

So driving into the rotary and getting out on Purcell's cove road to the
Binnacle at rush hour requires good visual approach!



"OldSailor" wrote in message
...

wrote
I'll check with them on my next trip, all I have to do is to be careful
about the new rule on the rotary;-)

Haven't been East for a while - What's the new rule on the rotary -
Starboard have right of way or Gross Tonnage rule?

lifelines

- 1x19 wire vs 7x7 plastic coated - In Europe, 1x19 plain wire is common
and practical - They call them guard rails. By way of an example:
http://www.s3i.co.uk/1x19PVC.php

Over here, we like the look of PVC coated wire.
http://www.bosunsupplies.com/product...?product=S0708

(There is a company that used to sell plastic covered lines with a fibre
core. They used a Norseman type end fitting. But they didn't look too
strong
are hopefully no longer made.)

Either way (1x19 or 7x7), you need to buy end fittings and probably have
them machine swaged on. Even if you can use parts of your rigging screws
and
pelican hooks, figure on at least $25.00 per fitting - This can add up,
especially if you have gates.

There are hand-crimp fittings that can be installed with a Nicopress
tool -
Results don't look that good, especially when it's a DIY job.
http://www.bosunsupplies.com/product...ct=lifelinefit

Some older boats had chromed cast bronze end fittings that slid over the
PVC
coated wire - all it takes to replace lifelines on these, is new wire and
copper nicopress stop fittings. May not be as strong as machine swaged
fittings, but thousands of boats still have these - including my own!
Can't
find any reference to these on the web - may be a good reason?

Finally, a good reference to lifeline safety:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?W62322A9D

lifelines with out PVC coating?
 

Dennis Pogson wrote:
wrote:
I have been looking before to replace my life lines. In Canada, I
found at Canadian Tires, 9 strands Stainless wire labelled aircraft
quality. On the same rack was the same wire with vinyl covering
marked $1.49 per foot.

I was ready to buy but I did not have the tools for splicing the
(Pelican) end connectors that hooks on the bow and stern pulpits.

I have seen some sailors using SS U-bolts to secure the connections
to the pulpits and stanchions. Not nautically elegant but safe.

The practise in UK is to secure the SS lifelines with a SS shackle at the
pulpit and a cord lashing at the cockpit end. The cockpit end of the wire
terminates about 3 inches short of the stern pulpit with a SS eyebolt and is
lashed with as many turns of polyester (Dacron) cord as appropriate, bearing
in mind that it may be necessary to cut the lifelines with one stroke of a
sharp knife - usually about 6-8 turns is deemed satisfactory.

Dennis.

Question: I had previously thought that fastening one end of the
lifelines with some kind of non metallic rope LASHING (as is done with
all four lines, two each side of our 30+ year old Westerly Tiger) is to
avoid having a metallic 'shorted turn' around the boat that could
interfere with radio reception/direction finding etc. However the above
suggests it is for quick safe disconnection in an emergency? Or both?
Terry

lifelines with out PVC coating?
 

"terry" wrote in message
ups.com...
Dennis Pogson wrote:
wrote:
I have been looking before to replace my life lines. In Canada, I
found at Canadian Tires, 9 strands Stainless wire labelled aircraft
quality. On the same rack was the same wire with vinyl covering
marked $1.49 per foot.

I was ready to buy but I did not have the tools for splicing the
(Pelican) end connectors that hooks on the bow and stern pulpits.

I have seen some sailors using SS U-bolts to secure the connections
to the pulpits and stanchions. Not nautically elegant but safe.

The practise in UK is to secure the SS lifelines with a SS shackle at the
pulpit and a cord lashing at the cockpit end. The cockpit end of the wire
terminates about 3 inches short of the stern pulpit with a SS eyebolt and
is
lashed with as many turns of polyester (Dacron) cord as appropriate,
bearing
in mind that it may be necessary to cut the lifelines with one stroke of
a
sharp knife - usually about 6-8 turns is deemed satisfactory.

Dennis.

Question: I had previously thought that fastening one end of the
lifelines with some kind of non metallic rope LASHING (as is done with
all four lines, two each side of our 30+ year old Westerly Tiger) is to
avoid having a metallic 'shorted turn' around the boat that could
interfere with radio reception/direction finding etc. However the above
suggests it is for quick safe disconnection in an emergency? Or both?
Terry

I'm wondering what sort of emergency other than a capsize (turtle) would
necessitate cutting free lifelines.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

lifelines with out PVC coating?
 

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"terry" wrote in message
ups.com...
Dennis Pogson wrote:
wrote:
I have been looking before to replace my life lines. In Canada, I
found at Canadian Tires, 9 strands Stainless wire labelled aircraft
quality. On the same rack was the same wire with vinyl covering
marked $1.49 per foot.

I was ready to buy but I did not have the tools for splicing the
(Pelican) end connectors that hooks on the bow and stern pulpits.

I have seen some sailors using SS U-bolts to secure the connections
to the pulpits and stanchions. Not nautically elegant but safe.

The practise in UK is to secure the SS lifelines with a SS shackle at
the
pulpit and a cord lashing at the cockpit end. The cockpit end of the
wire
terminates about 3 inches short of the stern pulpit with a SS eyebolt
and is
lashed with as many turns of polyester (Dacron) cord as appropriate,
bearing
in mind that it may be necessary to cut the lifelines with one stroke of
a
sharp knife - usually about 6-8 turns is deemed satisfactory.

Dennis.

Question: I had previously thought that fastening one end of the
lifelines with some kind of non metallic rope LASHING (as is done with
all four lines, two each side of our 30+ year old Westerly Tiger) is to
avoid having a metallic 'shorted turn' around the boat that could
interfere with radio reception/direction finding etc. However the above
suggests it is for quick safe disconnection in an emergency? Or both?
Terry

I'm wondering what sort of emergency other than a capsize (turtle) would
necessitate cutting free lifelines.


One reason to release the lifeline might be to facilitate the rescue of a
MOB. It is tough enough to hoist someone over the rail, let alone trying to
get them over/through the lifelines. As for the "shorted turn" concept,
that can't be right (at least for any of the antennas that I've ever used on
my boat). I've not tried direction-finding gear, but even the antenna used
there has windings that are at right angles to the lifeline loop, so there
shouldn't be any significant interaction. If I am wrong about this, I hope
someone lets us know.

I had to replace the coated lifelines with uncoated stainless before I could
enter my sailboat in the Pacific Cup (a race from San Francisco to Hawaii).
The rules that apply mandate wire lifelines, and don't allow rope. I
believe that this is because the rules folks are worried about someone
accidentally cutting a rope lifeline. Before I got the new lifelines I
sliced off the PVC covering on the old ones, hoping I could use the now bare
wire. The exposed wire was rusty, and had meathooks. Perhaps I created the
meathooks with my knife, but if so it sure didn't take much effort. I
recall that some of the covered stainless lines are #305 stainless, rather
than #316, which might explain the corrosion I saw. In any case, once I saw
my bare lifelines, I was quite happy to replace them with new #316 uncoated
wire.

-Paul

lifelines with out PVC coating?
 

"Paul" wrote in message
...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"terry" wrote in message
ups.com...
Dennis Pogson wrote:
wrote:
I have been looking before to replace my life lines. In Canada, I
found at Canadian Tires, 9 strands Stainless wire labelled aircraft
quality. On the same rack was the same wire with vinyl covering
marked $1.49 per foot.

I was ready to buy but I did not have the tools for splicing the
(Pelican) end connectors that hooks on the bow and stern pulpits.

I have seen some sailors using SS U-bolts to secure the connections
to the pulpits and stanchions. Not nautically elegant but safe.

The practise in UK is to secure the SS lifelines with a SS shackle at
the
pulpit and a cord lashing at the cockpit end. The cockpit end of the
wire
terminates about 3 inches short of the stern pulpit with a SS eyebolt
and is
lashed with as many turns of polyester (Dacron) cord as appropriate,
bearing
in mind that it may be necessary to cut the lifelines with one stroke
of a
sharp knife - usually about 6-8 turns is deemed satisfactory.

Dennis.

Question: I had previously thought that fastening one end of the
lifelines with some kind of non metallic rope LASHING (as is done with
all four lines, two each side of our 30+ year old Westerly Tiger) is to
avoid having a metallic 'shorted turn' around the boat that could
interfere with radio reception/direction finding etc. However the above
suggests it is for quick safe disconnection in an emergency? Or both?
Terry

I'm wondering what sort of emergency other than a capsize (turtle) would
necessitate cutting free lifelines.


One reason to release the lifeline might be to facilitate the rescue of a
MOB. It is tough enough to hoist someone over the rail, let alone trying
to get them over/through the lifelines. As for the "shorted turn"
concept, that can't be right (at least for any of the antennas that I've
ever used on my boat). I've not tried direction-finding gear, but even
the antenna used there has windings that are at right angles to the
lifeline loop, so there shouldn't be any significant interaction. If I am
wrong about this, I hope someone lets us know.

I had to replace the coated lifelines with uncoated stainless before I
could enter my sailboat in the Pacific Cup (a race from San Francisco to
Hawaii). The rules that apply mandate wire lifelines, and don't allow
rope. I believe that this is because the rules folks are worried about
someone accidentally cutting a rope lifeline. Before I got the new
lifelines I sliced off the PVC covering on the old ones, hoping I could
use the now bare wire. The exposed wire was rusty, and had meathooks.
Perhaps I created the meathooks with my knife, but if so it sure didn't
take much effort. I recall that some of the covered stainless lines are
#305 stainless, rather than #316, which might explain the corrosion I saw.
In any case, once I saw my bare lifelines, I was quite happy to replace
them with new #316 uncoated wire.

-Paul

It's been my experience that the lifelines aid in MOBs. Gives the crew
something to wedge themselves around when dealing with the person in the
water. Even if it might help to cut them away, I would think it would be a
minor advantage at best. You just end up with more things loose that have
the potential to do harm to boat and crew.

Have you noticed chafe from the bare wires?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

lifelines with out PVC coating?
 

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Paul" wrote in message
...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"terry" wrote in message
ups.com...
Dennis Pogson wrote:
wrote:
I have been looking before to replace my life lines. In Canada, I
found at Canadian Tires, 9 strands Stainless wire labelled aircraft
quality. On the same rack was the same wire with vinyl covering
marked $1.49 per foot.

I was ready to buy but I did not have the tools for splicing the
(Pelican) end connectors that hooks on the bow and stern pulpits.

I have seen some sailors using SS U-bolts to secure the connections
to the pulpits and stanchions. Not nautically elegant but safe.

The practise in UK is to secure the SS lifelines with a SS shackle at
the
pulpit and a cord lashing at the cockpit end. The cockpit end of the
wire
terminates about 3 inches short of the stern pulpit with a SS eyebolt
and is
lashed with as many turns of polyester (Dacron) cord as appropriate,
bearing
in mind that it may be necessary to cut the lifelines with one stroke
of a
sharp knife - usually about 6-8 turns is deemed satisfactory.

Dennis.

Question: I had previously thought that fastening one end of the
lifelines with some kind of non metallic rope LASHING (as is done with
all four lines, two each side of our 30+ year old Westerly Tiger) is to
avoid having a metallic 'shorted turn' around the boat that could
interfere with radio reception/direction finding etc. However the above
suggests it is for quick safe disconnection in an emergency? Or both?
Terry

I'm wondering what sort of emergency other than a capsize (turtle) would
necessitate cutting free lifelines.


One reason to release the lifeline might be to facilitate the rescue of a
MOB. It is tough enough to hoist someone over the rail, let alone trying
to get them over/through the lifelines. As for the "shorted turn"
concept, that can't be right (at least for any of the antennas that I've
ever used on my boat). I've not tried direction-finding gear, but even
the antenna used there has windings that are at right angles to the
lifeline loop, so there shouldn't be any significant interaction. If I am
wrong about this, I hope someone lets us know.

I had to replace the coated lifelines with uncoated stainless before I
could enter my sailboat in the Pacific Cup (a race from San Francisco to
Hawaii). The rules that apply mandate wire lifelines, and don't allow
rope. I believe that this is because the rules folks are worried about
someone accidentally cutting a rope lifeline. Before I got the new
lifelines I sliced off the PVC covering on the old ones, hoping I could
use the now bare wire. The exposed wire was rusty, and had meathooks.
Perhaps I created the meathooks with my knife, but if so it sure didn't
take much effort. I recall that some of the covered stainless lines are
#305 stainless, rather than #316, which might explain the corrosion I
saw. In any case, once I saw my bare lifelines, I was quite happy to
replace them with new #316 uncoated wire.

-Paul

It's been my experience that the lifelines aid in MOBs. Gives the crew
something to wedge themselves around when dealing with the person in the
water. Even if it might help to cut them away, I would think it would be a
minor advantage at best. You just end up with more things loose that have
the potential to do harm to boat and crew.

Have you noticed chafe from the bare wires?

You may be right about the lifelines being useful in a MOB situation. I was
just relaying what I read (or heard at a Safety At Sea seminar?) on the
subject -- I've got no personal experience with a real MOB. In any case,
I've got standard stainless turnbuckles and pelican hooks for lifeline
attachments, not the lashings.

Chafe hasn't been a problem, except perhaps a tiny bit of wear where the
lazy jib or spin sheet crosses the lifeline. I don't have tubing on my
shrouds either, and this is where I do see a bit of fuzz on the sheet cover
braid. Not enough to be a real problem, but I may eventually put some PVC
pipe over the lower shroud. After sailing to Hawaii and back with the
current configuration, the sheets still look fine where they cross the
lifelines and shrouds. I do make sure that there is some clearance between
the leeward sheet and the shroud, ant there isn't any significant load on
the lazy sheet.

I actually now prefer the bare lifeline. It looks nice, doesn't get sticky
or stained, and of course any corrosion is going to be visible. I used 1x19
wire, and it is flexible enough, even for the boarding gates. As for
hanging laundry, I usually clip it around the dodger or bimini stainless
tubing, or fly it from the flag halyard. If I hang laundry from the
lifelines (while at sea) it gets too much spray.

-Paul

lifelines with out PVC coating?
 

In article ,
Paul wrote:

It's been my experience that the lifelines aid in MOBs. Gives the crew
something to wedge themselves around when dealing with the person in the
water. Even if it might help to cut them away, I would think it would be a
minor advantage at best. You just end up with more things loose that have
the potential to do harm to boat and crew.

Have you noticed chafe from the bare wires?

You may be right about the lifelines being useful in a MOB situation. I was
just relaying what I read (or heard at a Safety At Sea seminar?) on the
subject -- I've got no personal experience with a real MOB. In any case,
I've got standard stainless turnbuckles and pelican hooks for lifeline
attachments, not the lashings.

It's been several years since I participated in "live" MOB practice
(SF bay), but when I did, they seemed to be an asset, given the
conditions can be fairly rigorous. The only time I was the MOB was
during very benign conditions in the Carib., so it's hard to make any
inferences from that. The discussion just got me thinking s'all.

Chafe hasn't been a problem, except perhaps a tiny bit of wear where the
lazy jib or spin sheet crosses the lifeline. I don't have tubing on my
shrouds either, and this is where I do see a bit of fuzz on the sheet cover
braid. Not enough to be a real problem, but I may eventually put some PVC
pipe over the lower shroud. After sailing to Hawaii and back with the
current configuration, the sheets still look fine where they cross the
lifelines and shrouds. I do make sure that there is some clearance between
the leeward sheet and the shroud, ant there isn't any significant load on
the lazy sheet.

I actually now prefer the bare lifeline. It looks nice, doesn't get sticky
or stained, and of course any corrosion is going to be visible. I used 1x19
wire, and it is flexible enough, even for the boarding gates. As for
hanging laundry, I usually clip it around the dodger or bimini stainless
tubing, or fly it from the flag halyard. If I hang laundry from the
lifelines (while at sea) it gets too much spray.

I'm seriously thinking about doing the same thing... no coating on the
lines. I definitely like the look of the bare wire. I don't know if
I'm going to have the time/energy to do it myself, and I'm wondering
if the yard will do it that way. I'm going to stop by and ask them in
the next day or so.

I am loath to put tubing on the shrouds on the same general
principles, but I think it might be needed, since that's where I would
anticipate the most chafe (as you seem to indicate). I guess as long
as there's plenty of airflow, and if I inspect regularly, that should
cover it.

What do you sail and where?



--
Capt. JG @@
www.sailnow.com

lifelines with out PVC coating?
 

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Paul wrote:

It's been my experience that the lifelines aid in MOBs. Gives the crew
something to wedge themselves around when dealing with the person in the
water. Even if it might help to cut them away, I would think it would be
a
minor advantage at best. You just end up with more things loose that
have
the potential to do harm to boat and crew.

Have you noticed chafe from the bare wires?

You may be right about the lifelines being useful in a MOB situation. I
was
just relaying what I read (or heard at a Safety At Sea seminar?) on the
subject -- I've got no personal experience with a real MOB. In any case,
I've got standard stainless turnbuckles and pelican hooks for lifeline
attachments, not the lashings.

It's been several years since I participated in "live" MOB practice
(SF bay), but when I did, they seemed to be an asset, given the
conditions can be fairly rigorous. The only time I was the MOB was
during very benign conditions in the Carib., so it's hard to make any
inferences from that. The discussion just got me thinking s'all.

Chafe hasn't been a problem, except perhaps a tiny bit of wear where the
lazy jib or spin sheet crosses the lifeline. I don't have tubing on my
shrouds either, and this is where I do see a bit of fuzz on the sheet
cover
braid. Not enough to be a real problem, but I may eventually put some PVC
pipe over the lower shroud. After sailing to Hawaii and back with the
current configuration, the sheets still look fine where they cross the
lifelines and shrouds. I do make sure that there is some clearance
between
the leeward sheet and the shroud, ant there isn't any significant load on
the lazy sheet.

I actually now prefer the bare lifeline. It looks nice, doesn't get
sticky
or stained, and of course any corrosion is going to be visible. I used
1x19
wire, and it is flexible enough, even for the boarding gates. As for
hanging laundry, I usually clip it around the dodger or bimini stainless
tubing, or fly it from the flag halyard. If I hang laundry from the
lifelines (while at sea) it gets too much spray.

I'm seriously thinking about doing the same thing... no coating on the
lines. I definitely like the look of the bare wire. I don't know if
I'm going to have the time/energy to do it myself, and I'm wondering
if the yard will do it that way. I'm going to stop by and ask them in
the next day or so.

I am loath to put tubing on the shrouds on the same general
principles, but I think it might be needed, since that's where I would
anticipate the most chafe (as you seem to indicate). I guess as long
as there's plenty of airflow, and if I inspect regularly, that should
cover it.

What do you sail and where?



--
Capt. JG @@
www.sailnow.com

The shroud tubing would be small PVC waterpipe -- more of a roller than a
tight fiting cover. This will let air get to the wire so corrosion
shouldn't be a problem. On the other hand, having the shrouds bare hasn't
been a problem. I suppose that if I were to be hove-to for a long time the
shroud cover would be a good way to reduce the chafing of the sheet. I've
seen this on other boats and it looks like an O.K. idea.

My boat, named "VALIS", is a Pacific Seacraft 44, hull#16. Her home port is
Sausalito, California (San Francisco Bay -- I see that we're neighbors!). I
sail locally, not as often as I would like, on the bay or sometimes out to
the Farallons. I try to do a longer voyage every year or so. So far we
have been to Hawaii and back twice, and once down to the Southern California
Channel Islands and back. I've got photos, journals, etc on the website and
blog: www.sailvalis.com

In a week or so I will be putting up photos, and perhaps some video, from
the recent Hawaii trip. The blog has some photos and daily journal entries,
from the boat, for the race to Hawaii and during the passage back.

Regards,
Paul

lifelines with out PVC coating?
 

In article ,
Paul wrote:
The shroud tubing would be small PVC waterpipe -- more of a roller than a
tight fiting cover. This will let air get to the wire so corrosion
shouldn't be a problem. On the other hand, having the shrouds bare hasn't
been a problem. I suppose that if I were to be hove-to for a long time the
shroud cover would be a good way to reduce the chafing of the sheet. I've
seen this on other boats and it looks like an O.K. idea.

My boat, named "VALIS", is a Pacific Seacraft 44, hull#16. Her home port is
Sausalito, California (San Francisco Bay -- I see that we're neighbors!). I
sail locally, not as often as I would like, on the bay or sometimes out to
the Farallons. I try to do a longer voyage every year or so. So far we
have been to Hawaii and back twice, and once down to the Southern California
Channel Islands and back. I've got photos, journals, etc on the website and
blog: www.sailvalis.com

In a week or so I will be putting up photos, and perhaps some video, from
the recent Hawaii trip. The blog has some photos and daily journal entries,
from the boat, for the race to Hawaii and during the passage back.

I'm teaching this weekend with Club Nautique out of
Sausalito. Regularly sail out of Clipper on a Yamaha 30
as well.

That is one sharp boat! I've seen her for sure. I'll send you some
email from your website with more info. We should have a chat some
time.

Jonathan


--
Capt. JG @@
www.sailnow.com