|
Dangerous Maga-yacht in Maine
"Gary" wrote in message news:l54zg.277400$Mn5.102305@pd7tw3no... otnmbrd wrote: My original point was that the terms "one or two whistle pass" is not commonly used by mariners around the world. It might not be clearly understood. It may work when dealing with tug boats and pilots in a particular area of the US but it is not a good way to learn to indicate intentions if you venture a little farther from home. It wouldn't work here in the Pacific Northwest. As far as channels monitored for intership and passing arrangements, I monitor the correct ones as dictated by the local the Vessel Traffic Management System (VTMS), where ever I am. It is the law. If the pilots and tugs are on a separate working channel using their own version of slang, then it just doesn't matter to those of us driving ships. Presumably, if they were making arrangements with me, they would be on the proper designated channel, using the proper terminology and monitored by the local VTMS. Gary It occurs to me that the two skippers are discussing how they will pass each other via VHF, they could even perform a "Yankee Doodle Whistle Pass," if they so decided. |
Dangerous Maga-yacht in Maine
"Gary" wrote in message news:l54zg.277400$Mn5.102305@pd7tw3no... My original point was that the terms "one or two whistle pass" is not commonly used by mariners around the world. It might not be clearly understood. It may work when dealing with tug boats and pilots in a particular area of the US but it is not a good way to learn to indicate intentions if you venture a little farther from home. It wouldn't work here in the Pacific Northwest. I'm not disagreeing with your point about "around the world" rather explaining that you do hear it frequently in US waters. The main reason it works and is used here is the Inland Rules and how passing situation signals are set up. What is important, is not the fact that you don't hear it used in your area, but that if you are travelling to other areas of the States, you may well hear the terms being used and if you know that you are not as apt to wonder what's going on. As far as channels monitored for intership and passing arrangements, I monitor the correct ones as dictated by the local the Vessel Traffic Management System (VTMS), where ever I am. It is the law. If the pilots and tugs are on a separate working channel using their own version of slang, then it just doesn't matter to those of us driving ships. Presumably, if they were making arrangements with me, they would be on the proper designated channel, using the proper terminology and monitored by the local VTMS. Not all Ports/harbors have VTS. Whenever you are in an unfamiliar area VTS will be a great first choice but you need to be aware that it may not be available and some local slang/channels may be in effect especially if you are "driving ships". Although proper terminology is great, it's not always used. otn |
Dangerous Maga-yacht in Maine
Roger Long wrote:
Good seamanship dictates passing, when possible, by a sufficient distance to accommodate the unexpected. Even powerboat to powerboat, it isn't wise to put the stand on vessel in a position where spotting something like a floating log might force them to hit either it or you. Gary wrote: Good points. Of course one does not normally make passing arrangements based on the likelihood that the opposing ship will lose control. Good seamanship, however, does demand a certain degree of prudence. My original point was that the terms "one or two whistle pass" is not commonly used by mariners around the world. It might not be clearly understood. It may work when dealing with tug boats and pilots in a particular area of the US but it is not a good way to learn to indicate intentions if you venture a little farther from home. It wouldn't work here in the Pacific Northwest. In the early sixties when I began boating there seemed to be a boating etiquette that was generally followed. The boaters I met or even read about all seemed to be the type of people who would be appalled to be exposed to boaters who didn't practice good seamanship *and* polite boating etiquette, and would have been certainly mortified to be caught practicing either poor seamanship or bad etiquette. I have a copy of Chapmans from the sixties and quite a bit of the book was dedicated to those two things. Now while I certainly haven't spent my life at sea, I have some pretty varied sea time on power vessels, sailboats, and ships. And what I have been observing over the last few years seems to be an increase in poor seamanship being practiced in both large and small vessels, and especially a general decrease in boating etiquette. I believe some of this is related to a sense of arrogance that some captains and other boaters seem to display just like more seem to do in cars and trucks these days. Either(and both) of these changes, I believe, are going to lead to more danger on the water. I have only recently started to study for the OUPV license so I will certainly not claim to be any kind of expert, and I welcome all *constructive* criticism. That said, I have already seen enough on the water to be wary, and read enough of the Reg's to be almost frightened by what some on this NG and others have said over time. Even this present thread shows so many opinions rather than a thorough knowledge of the rules. One of the reason for rules (other than the obvious) is for conformity - everyone is on the same page so to speak, which leads to safer boating. In reference to the above thread, for example, 35 or so years ago when I took up motorcycle riding I had an accident. I just couldn't believe at that time that someone who was looking straight at my face as I came down the road would still just pull out in front of me when I got close. I have never made that mistake again. When I am at the helm of a boat (or airplane, bike, car, etc.) I assume that all others out there can have a brain-fart or a mechanical failure that may put me in danger. I am not paranoid, but I am always prudent, and therefore safer. I ALWAYS take the responsibility for my vessel's safety, no-matter-what. And that includes clear, timely, responsible communication and action, in the appropriate manner. Oh and remember the guy with that twisted sense of humor - Mr. Murphy seems to enjoy showing up at those times when you have the least time to react. And that brings up the above discussion on "whistle" passes. Please go back and read the Rules on signals. Whistle (or horn) signals (although, sadly, not as commonly used by small craft as before) are required under certain conditions. If a radio request includes discussion of sound signals you shouldn't have any problem figuring out the meaning if you are familiar with the signals and their meanings. And unless I am not fully understanding the above discussions, it is truly frightening to read of a Navy Captain who doesn't understand sound signals that are very clearly spelled out in both the COLREGs and the Inland Rules. |
Dangerous Maga-yacht in Maine
What part of Roger's explanation did you miss?
The strong winds? The fact that he was operating single handed? The fact that he had the right of way but was bullied into giving it up? Just exactly when is a singlehanded sailor in a strong wind expected to drop the sheet or the steering apparatus to pick up, turn on, tune in the correct channel, and broadcast a radio call on a handheld radio? When some rich asshole in a big yacht is about to run him over, I guess. That is totally ignorant. You should be ashamed of yourself. Why don't you do a google search and look up some of Roger's previous postings? He isn't exactly a rookie... Capt. Bill wrote: On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 14:59:32 GMT, "Roger Long" wrote: Yeah, I could have called him on the radio but the rules of the road were written to make it possible to deal with something this simple without having to yack and negotiate on the air. Having to make a radio call in a case like this means someone already isn't observing the rules. Let me get this straight, you didn't use the radio because you shouldn't have to if some one is following the rules, but at the same time you state they weren't following the rules and you still didn't use the radio. So at what point would you use your hand held radio? After they had run you over to call for help? |
Dangerous Maga-yacht in Maine
If there is any doubt concerning the actions of the other yacht, you should
definitely call them on the radio. wrote in message oups.com... What part of Roger's explanation did you miss? The strong winds? The fact that he was operating single handed? The fact that he had the right of way but was bullied into giving it up? Just exactly when is a singlehanded sailor in a strong wind expected to drop the sheet or the steering apparatus to pick up, turn on, tune in the correct channel, and broadcast a radio call on a handheld radio? When some rich asshole in a big yacht is about to run him over, I guess. That is totally ignorant. You should be ashamed of yourself. Why don't you do a google search and look up some of Roger's previous postings? He isn't exactly a rookie... Capt. Bill wrote: On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 14:59:32 GMT, "Roger Long" wrote: Yeah, I could have called him on the radio but the rules of the road were written to make it possible to deal with something this simple without having to yack and negotiate on the air. Having to make a radio call in a case like this means someone already isn't observing the rules. Let me get this straight, you didn't use the radio because you shouldn't have to if some one is following the rules, but at the same time you state they weren't following the rules and you still didn't use the radio. So at what point would you use your hand held radio? After they had run you over to call for help? |
Dangerous Maga-yacht in Maine
Sailaway wrote:
Roger Long wrote: Good seamanship dictates passing, when possible, by a sufficient distance to accommodate the unexpected. Even powerboat to powerboat, it isn't wise to put the stand on vessel in a position where spotting something like a floating log might force them to hit either it or you. Gary wrote: Good points. Of course one does not normally make passing arrangements based on the likelihood that the opposing ship will lose control. Good seamanship, however, does demand a certain degree of prudence. My original point was that the terms "one or two whistle pass" is not commonly used by mariners around the world. It might not be clearly understood. It may work when dealing with tug boats and pilots in a particular area of the US but it is not a good way to learn to indicate intentions if you venture a little farther from home. It wouldn't work here in the Pacific Northwest. And that brings up the above discussion on "whistle" passes. Please go back and read the Rules on signals. Whistle (or horn) signals (although, sadly, not as commonly used by small craft as before) are required under certain conditions. If a radio request includes discussion of sound signals you shouldn't have any problem figuring out the meaning if you are familiar with the signals and their meanings. And unless I am not fully understanding the above discussions, it is truly frightening to read of a Navy Captain who doesn't understand sound signals that are very clearly spelled out in both the COLREGs and the Inland Rules. I enjoyed your well written thoughts right up to the paragraph above. I would like to point out that nowhere in any of the Colregs does it talk about using slang like "two whistle pass" on the radio. You had me thinking though and I did have to go back and read "Part D - Sound and Light Signals" again. In there, when ships are in sight of one another, two blasts on the whistle indicates a vessel altering to port. (I'm sure you knew that) So does a "Two whistle pass" mean that both vessels alter to port (and leave each other to starboard) or leave each other to their port side. Do you see my point? It is confusing. I do understand sound signals, what we are talking about here is voice communications with slang terms. It would be clear to me what two short blasts on an opposing vessels whistle meant. It still would not be clear to me what he means if he calls me up and says; "How about a two whistle pass?" Please go back and read the rules on signals. Maybe you didn't understand the discussion. Gary |
Dangerous Maga-yacht in Maine
|
Dangerous Maga-yacht in Maine
BZZZZZTT - Wrong Answer!!!!
The number one concern is to safely operate the boat and not get run over by an idiot operating a much bigger boat. Singlehanding in a strong wind near shore doesn't allow the luxury of screwing around with a handheld radio and trying to chat up the the yacht operator. Do any of you "Should'a called him on the radio" folks have ANY experience singlehanding a 32' sailboat? It seems really obvious to me that the answer is NO. Give it a try sometime and you might start posting from a position of experience. If Roger had not had a handheld radio, would he still be "wrong" to expect a professional yacht captain to know and obey the rules of the road? Or do you think that since he didn't have a fixed VHF radio, a Bluetooth headset/microphone for it, a VOX mike, and an autopilot, he clearly is under equipped? Give me a break. The yacht operator needs to have a unpleasant chat with the Coast Guard and some remedial training. Roger didn't get run over and lived to post about it. We should all be thankful that the event turned out as well as it did. What happened to the guy that says he knows the yacht captain? What did the yacht captain say? I pulled this passage from rec.aviation.homebuilt. There was a fatality at Oshkosh this year. A Grumman TBM Avenger ran over an RV6 and killed the person in the right seat. Begin quoted text I'm prejudiced. Of course I'm prejudiced. In 5000+ flight hours, I've never come as close to a midair as I did at Oshkosh 1999. Oshkosh Tower: "BlueOnBlue Cessna, number three for runway 27. Ercoupe put it on the numbers. Flight of three T6s, cross over runway 27, right downwind for runway 27, caution the Cessna at the gravel pit." (Warbird flight leader) "OK fellers, let's show them what a warbird arrival is like." The Cessna is looking, looking, and turns downwind. The copilot screams, "Oh, my God " and the pilot turns hard left, only to see two wings perhaps fifty feet below. Tower tells warbirds that they nearly had a midair with a Cessna. Warbird flight leader, "Then tell tell the little b@$+@rd to get out of our way." end quoted text In my opinion, the attitude of the the warbird flight leader mirrors the attitude of the yacht operator. YMMV Richard wrote: If there is any doubt concerning the actions of the other yacht, you should definitely call them on the radio. wrote in message oups.com... What part of Roger's explanation did you miss? The strong winds? The fact that he was operating single handed? The fact that he had the right of way but was bullied into giving it up? Just exactly when is a singlehanded sailor in a strong wind expected to drop the sheet or the steering apparatus to pick up, turn on, tune in the correct channel, and broadcast a radio call on a handheld radio? When some rich asshole in a big yacht is about to run him over, I guess. That is totally ignorant. You should be ashamed of yourself. Why don't you do a google search and look up some of Roger's previous postings? He isn't exactly a rookie... Capt. Bill wrote: On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 14:59:32 GMT, "Roger Long" wrote: Yeah, I could have called him on the radio but the rules of the road were written to make it possible to deal with something this simple without having to yack and negotiate on the air. Having to make a radio call in a case like this means someone already isn't observing the rules. Let me get this straight, you didn't use the radio because you shouldn't have to if some one is following the rules, but at the same time you state they weren't following the rules and you still didn't use the radio. So at what point would you use your hand held radio? After they had run you over to call for help? |
Dangerous Maga-yacht in Maine
|
Dangerous Maga-yacht in Maine
If you know the captain, what was his side of the story?
Cap'n Ric wrote: I was at Dimillos Old Port Marina in Portland, Maine on the 13th, 14th and 15th of July on my way back to Baltimore, Maryland from Castine, Maine. The FLORIDIAN was docked to the face pier while I was docked there. The boat is actually 225 feet LOA and is owned by Wayne Huizenga, the owner of the Miami Dolphins. I know the Captain and I'm sure that he had someone at the helm during this incident. I too have been the victim of large powerboats just missing me when they have miles of open ocean to avoid me. I'm sure there are two sides to this story. Ric |
Dangerous Maga-yacht in Maine
|
Dangerous Maga-yacht in Maine
|
Dangerous Maga-yacht in Maine
wrote in message oups.com... What part of Roger's explanation did you miss? The strong winds? The fact that he was operating single handed? The fact that he had the right of way but was bullied into giving it up? Just exactly when is a singlehanded sailor in a strong wind expected to drop the sheet or the steering apparatus to pick up, turn on, tune in the correct channel, and broadcast a radio call on a handheld radio? When some rich asshole in a big yacht is about to run him over, I guess. That is totally ignorant. You should be ashamed of yourself. So let me get this straight, the rules don't apply to sailors a) in strong winds, b) operating single handed ? If the situation calls for use of a radio and the skipper is not capable of doing that because of situational overload because he choose to go single handed, perhaps he was not capable of operating single handed safely. I suspect that Roger is more competent than that and wouldn't hide behind that lame response. Just to be clear .... he didn't have Right-of-way. You may be the last person in this thread to know this. He was the Stand On vessel. And yes, it sounds like the power vessel failed to make sufficient course / speed correction. Sounds like you are proposing a new day signal for "Caution, skipper can't handle this vessle", kinda of like "Not Under Commad" but with an incompetance slant to it. Why don't you do a google search and look up some of Roger's previous postings? He isn't exactly a rookie... Capt. Bill wrote: On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 14:59:32 GMT, "Roger Long" wrote: Yeah, I could have called him on the radio but the rules of the road were written to make it possible to deal with something this simple without having to yack and negotiate on the air. Having to make a radio call in a case like this means someone already isn't observing the rules. Let me get this straight, you didn't use the radio because you shouldn't have to if some one is following the rules, but at the same time you state they weren't following the rules and you still didn't use the radio. So at what point would you use your hand held radio? After they had run you over to call for help? |
Dangerous Maga-yacht in Maine
In article ,
Gerald wrote: Just to be clear .... he didn't have Right-of-way. You may be the last person in this thread to know this. He was the Stand On vessel. And yes, it sounds like the power vessel failed to make sufficient course / speed correction. In fact, I'd rather be the burdened vessel. It's easier, because I know I have to do something. Sounds like you are proposing a new day signal for "Caution, skipper can't handle this vessle", kinda of like "Not Under Commad" but with an incompetance slant to it. I suggest 1 prolonged, 2 short every 2 minutes for the duration of the trip. :-) -- Capt. JG @@ www.sailnow.com |
Dangerous Maga-yacht in Maine
Is a VHF radio required on a sailing vessel? Forgive my ignorance; I have
a number of smaller boats, and don't own a VHF. My understanding of the situation is that it was Roger's OBLIGATION to maintain his course and speed. Not to use (or even own!) a radio, not to have a working autopilot, not to do ANYTHING else, until collision appeared imminent. THEN he is obligated to take evasive action, as he did. What am I missing? Sal's Dad What part of Roger's explanation did you miss? The strong winds? The fact that he was operating single handed? The fact that he had the right of way but was bullied into giving it up? Just exactly when is a singlehanded sailor in a strong wind expected to drop the sheet or the steering apparatus to pick up, turn on, tune in the correct channel, and broadcast a radio call on a handheld radio? When some rich asshole in a big yacht is about to run him over, I guess. That is totally ignorant. You should be ashamed of yourself. So let me get this straight, the rules don't apply to sailors a) in strong winds, b) operating single handed ? If the situation calls for use of a radio and the skipper is not capable of doing that because of situational overload because he choose to go single handed, perhaps he was not capable of operating single handed safely. I suspect that Roger is more competent than that and wouldn't hide behind that lame response. Just to be clear .... he didn't have Right-of-way. You may be the last person in this thread to know this. He was the Stand On vessel. And yes, it sounds like the power vessel failed to make sufficient course / speed correction. Sounds like you are proposing a new day signal for "Caution, skipper can't handle this vessle", kinda of like "Not Under Commad" but with an incompetance slant to it. Why don't you do a google search and look up some of Roger's previous postings? He isn't exactly a rookie... Capt. Bill wrote: On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 14:59:32 GMT, "Roger Long" wrote: Yeah, I could have called him on the radio but the rules of the road were written to make it possible to deal with something this simple without having to yack and negotiate on the air. Having to make a radio call in a case like this means someone already isn't observing the rules. Let me get this straight, you didn't use the radio because you shouldn't have to if some one is following the rules, but at the same time you state they weren't following the rules and you still didn't use the radio. So at what point would you use your hand held radio? After they had run you over to call for help? |
Dangerous Maga-yacht in Maine
On Mon, 31 Jul 2006 21:14:44 -0400, "Sal's Dad"
wrote: What am I missing? What you are missing is the "prudent man" thing. If it looks like you may be on a collision course with another vessel, and if you have time to do so, it is prudent to attempt communication of some sort to clear things up. VHF is the communications medium of choice in most coastal areas, even with smaller boats. |
Dangerous Maga-yacht in Maine
"Sal's Dad" wrote in message ... Is a VHF radio required on a sailing vessel? Forgive my ignorance; I have a number of smaller boats, and don't own a VHF. My understanding of the situation is that it was Roger's OBLIGATION to maintain his course and speed. Not to use (or even own!) a radio, not to have a working autopilot, not to do ANYTHING else, until collision appeared imminent. THEN he is obligated to take evasive action, as he did. What am I missing? Sal's Dad VHF is not required on private boats in the US, don't know about other countries but I doubt it. Regardless, waiting to maneuver until a collision is *imminent* is never wise. Course changes should be made by the stand-on skipper at sufficient distance that there will be no risk of collision as soon as the stand-on skipper decides that the give-way vessel is NOT going to change course. Yes, the give-way skipper is wrong not to change course. But insisting on "right of way" is even wronger. And I single-hand "Escapade" regularly -- a 30 foot ketch. I learned defensive driving in high school back in the 70's, and apply it to to the water as well. I always assume that the other guy is trying to hit me until he/she demonstrates otherwise. And I always try to remember that I've made some pretty bone-headed maneuvers myself -- more than I *care* to remember. Karin Conover-Lewis Rawson 30 ketch "Escapade" Marinette WI |
VHF Radios onboard was Dangerous Maga-yacht in Maine
I think we can sum this up by saying that:
Roger was probably in the right as far as Colregs and right of way was concerned. Single handing demands some effort to think ahead and does not grant you any special status. The discussion that has evolved is the requirement to have/use VHF. That is a good topic. I don't think that VHF radios are required on small pleasure craft but I wonder why everybody wouldn't have one as a basic safety onboard safety item? Furthermore, if one is onboard why wouldn't you make best use of it as required by the Colregs? (I interpret the rules to say that if you have one you must use it. Just like radar etc. "all available means") Gary |
Dangerous Maga-yacht in Maine
wrote in message oups.com... What part of Roger's explanation did you miss? The strong winds? Oh pshaw......my sense from Roger is that the winds were in no way dangerous, rather of a force that required a tad more attention and muscle power. The fact that he was operating single handed? My understanding is there were others below doing some cooking. Prudence may have dictated burnt veggies below and an extra hand on deck. The fact that he had the right of way but was bullied into giving it up? LOL Welcome to the world of boating. Just exactly when is a singlehanded sailor in a strong wind expected to drop the sheet or the steering apparatus to pick up, turn on, tune in the correct channel, and broadcast a radio call on a handheld radio? When some rich asshole in a big yacht is about to run him over, I guess. This to me is a problem. All too many sailboats do not have what I would consider a proper radio set-up for the helmsman. The rules may not require the use of a radio, but just as you must maintain a lookout by all means available you should be able to work through/ confer upon any passing situation by all means available. To not do so, says to me that you are not adhering to Rule 2. Obviously I have been following this thread closely. For the most part I have not disagreed with Roger's basic reasoning not only about the actions of the yacht but how he handled it. However, he has room for improvement and I think he's learned some things from it. Gary made a good point about "radio slang". Not everyone in this NG is from the US and familiar with US Inland Rules .... so for those of you not used to these Rules, now you know when in the US you may hear these terms..... and for those from the US, when sailing outside the US, don't expect someone to understand what you are saying. One point that I have....... the discussion has centered on Roger and the yacht. What other traffic was in the area? i.e. If Roger and the Floridian were the only two boats in the area, it's one thing, but if there were other boats in the area and more than these two were on a collision course at the same time, then it's another story all together. otn |
Dangerous Maga-yacht in Maine
In article ,
Wayne.B wrote: On Mon, 31 Jul 2006 21:14:44 -0400, "Sal's Dad" wrote: What am I missing? What you are missing is the "prudent man" thing. If it looks like you may be on a collision course with another vessel, and if you have time to do so, it is prudent to attempt communication of some sort to clear things up. VHF is the communications medium of choice in most coastal areas, even with smaller boats. While you're right, it is also not *required* equipment on a small boat. -- Capt. JG @@ www.sailnow.com |
VHF Radios onboard was Dangerous Maga-yacht in Maine
In article ydzzg.289377$iF6.117034@pd7tw2no,
Gary wrote: I think we can sum this up by saying that: Roger was probably in the right as far as Colregs and right of way was concerned. Single handing demands some effort to think ahead and does not grant you any special status. The discussion that has evolved is the requirement to have/use VHF. That is a good topic. I don't think that VHF radios are required on small pleasure craft but I wonder why everybody wouldn't have one as a basic safety onboard safety item? Furthermore, if one is onboard why wouldn't you make best use of it as required by the Colregs? (I interpret the rules to say that if you have one you must use it. Just like radar etc. "all available means") Reminds me of a night sail many years ago... we're off the SF city fron in the bay heading down to pier 40 to call it a night. We're under sail, starboard broad reach. Beautiful conditions. Another sailboat comes up on our port side, engine on, sails down, and pretty darn close. We don't have much room to go to starboard, and I'm trying to think of what the hell to do if he turns into us. Finally, he's getting pretty close, so I try calling over to him. Stupid move, he comes even closer, apparently so he can hear me. Finally, he can hear me (we're talking 10 feet away now), and I ask him what the hell he wants. His reply was do you have any gas? I say, no, and I'm not even going to try (we're diesel anyway). He asks if I know of a fuel dock in the area. I say sure, but I think they're all closed at this hour. I ask, why don't you raise your sails if you're low on "gas"? He says, oh, yeah.... clearly, this guy doesn't have a clue. I say, if you're really concerned why don't you hail Vessel Assist on 16, and they'll come get you? He says, I don't have a radio. Grrr... so I say, do you want me to call for you? He says, no and motors away, across toward Oakland. I tried to yell to him to turn on his running, steaming, stern lights, but he didn't hear me. Shhheeeeeeez... -- Capt. JG @@ www.sailnow.com |
VHF Radios onboard was Dangerous Maga-yacht in Maine
Nice summary Gary.
Its interesting that so far on this thread there's an assumption that having a VHF to hand means that you'll be able to communicate with a potential collision risk vessel. First, he's got to have a VHF too. Then it's got to be switched on. Listening out on the right channel. Then he's got to identify that he's being called - "Vessel at 33deg 23min N, 120deg 45min E, . . . While all these assumptions might be valid on an inland waterway where there's a designated VHF channel, they certainly wouldn't apply in most European seas, and certainly not in Greek waters! -- JimB http://www.jimbaerselman.f2s.com/ Describing some Greek and Spanish cruising areas "Gary" wrote in message news:ydzzg.289377$iF6.117034@pd7tw2no... I think we can sum this up by saying that: Roger was probably in the right as far as Colregs and right of way was concerned. Single handing demands some effort to think ahead and does not grant you any special status. The discussion that has evolved is the requirement to have/use VHF. That is a good topic. I don't think that VHF radios are required on small pleasure craft but I wonder why everybody wouldn't have one as a basic safety onboard safety item? Furthermore, if one is onboard why wouldn't you make best use of it as required by the Colregs? (I interpret the rules to say that if you have one you must use it. Just like radar etc. "all available means") Gary |
VHF Radios onboard was Dangerous Maga-yacht in Maine
"News f2s" wrote:
Nice summary Gary. Its interesting that so far on this thread there's an assumption that having a VHF to hand means that you'll be able to communicate with a potential collision risk vessel. First, he's got to have a VHF too. I would think that a vessel that large would have to, although I know of some sailboats that do not. Then it's got to be switched on. I know people who sail (and single hand) who have a radio and do not switch it on because there's too much traffic, and it is too noisy. This is another issue like the radar one - in the US at least, if you have a radio it should be on and monitoring channel 16. Listening out on the right channel. Then he's got to identify that he's being called - "Vessel at 33deg 23min N, 120deg 45min E, . . . I don't know that I would be able to identify myself if someone was calling me with that designation. The name of the boat is the best way to hail, and alternatively a description of the boat and place. "Sailboat by Hooper's Island Light" for instance. We have our name in big letters on both the bow and stern, so someone should be able to make at attempt at the name if they can see us, but not everyone does. I've seen trawlers with their dinghy stowed against the transom completely hiding the name there. While all these assumptions might be valid on an inland waterway where there's a designated VHF channel, they certainly wouldn't apply in most European seas, and certainly not in Greek waters! It isn't just the ICW where there is a designated channel. It is the whole of the US and I think also Canada and much of the Caribbean. |
VHF Radios onboard was Dangerous Maga-yacht in Maine
Gary wrote:
I think we can sum this up by saying that: Roger was probably in the right as far as Colregs and right of way was concerned. Single handing demands some effort to think ahead and does not grant you any special status. The discussion that has evolved is the requirement to have/use VHF. That is a good topic. I don't think that VHF radios are required on small pleasure craft but I wonder why everybody wouldn't have one as a basic safety onboard safety item? Because they are too noisy, and too much chatter. I am nosy, so I want to know what is going on. In the Chesapeake it is like listening in on a party line, especially if you have a scanner. And we do. Bob doesn't like to use it and would prefer just to listen to channel 16. In addition, he's a little deaf and he doesn't really listen to what's going on anyway, whether it is the radio or me. (The most common word in our conversation is "What?") So if there is a call that we need to pay attention to, it is up to me to tell him about it. Furthermore, if one is onboard why wouldn't you make best use of it as required by the Colregs? We have the radio mike available in the cockpit, and the speaker is also in the cockpit. Not everyone does. (I interpret the rules to say that if you have one you must use it. Just like radar etc. "all available means") Gary |
Dangerous Maga-yacht in Maine
Gary wrote:
Wayne.B wrote: On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 20:18:03 GMT, Gary wrote: I wouldn't clearly understand what a "pass on two whistles" is. I am a ships captain. What does it mean? In an meeting situation it means you intend to pass the vessel on your (and his) starboard side, the reverse of the normal port-to-port oncoming pass. I thought this was more or less universally understood, perhaps not, but then again I am not a ships captain... In an overtaking situation it also means you intend to leave the other vessel on your starboard side, their port side. Interesting, is that written down in some book I could refer to? I have never encountered this way of speaking on the radio. It sounds archaic but I would like to read about it somewhere. Do you have a reference? http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/mwv_f...Rules32-38.pdf This is a link that explains both rules. - international and national rules. Both of them have whistle signals. I do agree however as someone who is left and right challenged that it would be more understandable to me if one used colors. In my experience, we have always used colors. Like: "I will meet you green to green." or "I'll overtake you on your green side" (not used often, we would normally say starboard side) We do use whistle signals but they don't agree with your "pass on two whistles". Is that an inland US rules thing? Gary |
Dangerous Maga-yacht in Maine
Gary wrote:
Sailaway wrote: Roger Long wrote: Good seamanship dictates passing, when possible, by a sufficient distance to accommodate the unexpected. Even powerboat to powerboat, it isn't wise to put the stand on vessel in a position where spotting something like a floating log might force them to hit either it or you. Gary wrote: Good points. Of course one does not normally make passing arrangements based on the likelihood that the opposing ship will lose control. Good seamanship, however, does demand a certain degree of prudence. My original point was that the terms "one or two whistle pass" is not commonly used by mariners around the world. It might not be clearly understood. It may work when dealing with tug boats and pilots in a particular area of the US but it is not a good way to learn to indicate intentions if you venture a little farther from home. It wouldn't work here in the Pacific Northwest. And that brings up the above discussion on "whistle" passes. Please go back and read the Rules on signals. Whistle (or horn) signals (although, sadly, not as commonly used by small craft as before) are required under certain conditions. If a radio request includes discussion of sound signals you shouldn't have any problem figuring out the meaning if you are familiar with the signals and their meanings. And unless I am not fully understanding the above discussions, it is truly frightening to read of a Navy Captain who doesn't understand sound signals that are very clearly spelled out in both the COLREGs and the Inland Rules. I enjoyed your well written thoughts right up to the paragraph above. I would like to point out that nowhere in any of the Colregs does it talk about using slang like "two whistle pass" on the radio. You had me thinking though and I did have to go back and read "Part D - Sound and Light Signals" again. In there, when ships are in sight of one another, two blasts on the whistle indicates a vessel altering to port. (I'm sure you knew that) So does a "Two whistle pass" mean that both vessels alter to port (and leave each other to starboard) or leave each other to their port side. Do you see my point? It is confusing. Yes but then it is the original signal rules that are confusing, not the radio communication. If a boat was approaching you and sounded two whistles, what would that mean to you? I do understand sound signals, what we are talking about here is voice communications with slang terms. It would be clear to me what two short blasts on an opposing vessels whistle meant. It still would not be clear to me what he means if he calls me up and says; "How about a two whistle pass?" It should be understandable (IMHO) if you know what the whistles mean. I understood what it meant even though I would have to look up what one or two whistle was. The only thing the radio communications does is keep the 'conversation' between the two parties that need to understand each other's intentions. How often do you hear an automobile honk the horn and have to look around to see whether they were honking at you? In a busy harbor, if everyone was whistling away, it would be chaos. And even in the ICW it would be an unwarranted amount of noise to do it with whistles rather than with the radio. Please go back and read the rules on signals. Maybe you didn't understand the discussion. In the ICW there are whistle signals for bridges, but many bridges won't respond to them anymore. They require that you hail them on the radio, or in some cases on a cell phone. |
VHF Radios onboard was Dangerous Maga-yacht in Maine
Jonathan Ganz wrote:
In article ydzzg.289377$iF6.117034@pd7tw2no, Gary wrote: I think we can sum this up by saying that: Roger was probably in the right as far as Colregs and right of way was concerned. Single handing demands some effort to think ahead and does not grant you any special status. The discussion that has evolved is the requirement to have/use VHF. That is a good topic. I don't think that VHF radios are required on small pleasure craft but I wonder why everybody wouldn't have one as a basic safety onboard safety item? Furthermore, if one is onboard why wouldn't you make best use of it as required by the Colregs? (I interpret the rules to say that if you have one you must use it. Just like radar etc. "all available means") Reminds me of a night sail many years ago... we're off the SF city fron in the bay heading down to pier 40 to call it a night. We're under sail, starboard broad reach. Beautiful conditions. Another sailboat comes up on our port side, engine on, sails down, and pretty darn close. We don't have much room to go to starboard, and I'm trying to think of what the hell to do if he turns into us. Finally, he's getting pretty close, so I try calling over to him. Stupid move, he comes even closer, apparently so he can hear me. Finally, he can hear me (we're talking 10 feet away now), and I ask him what the hell he wants. His reply was do you have any gas? I say, no, and I'm not even going to try (we're diesel anyway). He asks if I know of a fuel dock in the area. I say sure, but I think they're all closed at this hour. I ask, why don't you raise your sails if you're low on "gas"? He says, oh, yeah.... clearly, this guy doesn't have a clue. I say, if you're really concerned why don't you hail Vessel Assist on 16, and they'll come get you? He says, I don't have a radio. Grrr... so I say, do you want me to call for you? He says, no and motors away, across toward Oakland. I tried to yell to him to turn on his running, steaming, stern lights, but he didn't hear me. Shhheeeeeeez... Now that sounds like a power boater impersonating a sailor. |
Dangerous Maga-yacht in Maine
Rosalie B. wrote:
Gary wrote: I wouldn't clearly understand what a "pass on two whistles" is. I am a ships captain. What does it mean? In an meeting situation it means you intend to pass the vessel on your (and his) starboard side, the reverse of the normal port-to-port oncoming pass. I thought this was more or less universally understood, perhaps not, but then again I am not a ships captain... In an overtaking situation it also means you intend to leave the other vessel on your starboard side, their port side. Interesting, is that written down in some book I could refer to? I have never encountered this way of speaking on the radio. It sounds archaic but I would like to read about it somewhere. Do you have a reference? http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/mwv_f...Rules32-38.pdf This is a link that explains both rules. - international and national rules. Both of them have whistle signals. I do agree however as someone who is left and right challenged that it would be more understandable to me if one used colors. Thanks for the reference. That does clear things up for US Inland rules. I like the way they are presented contrasting with the Colregs. Note that the same signals do not apply outside the demarcation line and Roger was outside. Gary |
Dangerous Maga-yacht in Maine
-- Roger Long "Wayne.B" wrote Sailing single handed in a strong breeze does not excuse anyone from seamanlike obligations or responsibilities Why is there no comment about being 228 feet long and owned by someone richer than God not excusing an operator from seamanlike obligations or responsibilities? (the radio) could/should have been readily at hand and turned on The radio is a back up. Contact is not necessary for the rules of the road to be in force. Radio break, not all boats have radios, operating a vessel in this situation with the expectation that you don't have to observe the rules of the road unless you get a radio call is neither seamanlike nor responsible. , sail could/should have been shortened to a more managable level, an autopilot could/should be available when single or short handing. Come on, that's like saying all powerboats should be operated slower because it will give everyone more time to react to crossing situations. My vessel was quite managable. It's not that I couldn't get the radio but that it was easier to simply run off. I ended up closer to Ram Island than I would have liked but I still cleared it. You have some dangerous preconceptions. Look, this is not about me. I handled it smoothly and easily. I expect this kind of "blind on autopilot" behavior from fishing vessels. Their crews are dead tired and their world is crumbling around them as they try to keep up with mortgages. I also expect it from large vessels that I selfishly don't want dodging every small yacht among the obstructions of Maine, even if they aren't in the channel. My post was about the fact that a no expense spared vessel, presumably with crew of similar caliber to the paint job, whose Captain and crew had just spent two weeks tied to the dock in Portland's most luxurious spot, could behave this way with no way of assessing skill level, radio functioning (or even existence), etc. aboard my vessel. The rules of the road don't require them to think about these things, they simply require them to punch 2 -3 degrees into the autopilot for five minutes at the appropriate time and then back. There is nothing in the rules of the road that says they don't have to do this unless there is radio contact. If I had been closely obstructed by the shore or had a sheet jammed in a winch, I certainly would have made a radio call. I could have done it but it was easier to just divert it a way that made it obvious I was going to keep clear. I handled it properly and differently than you might have but THAT'S NOT THE DAMN POINT! |
Dangerous Maga-yacht in Maine
"Wayne.B" wrote
What you are missing is the "prudent man" thing. The rules require you to be prudent. They do not require you to use the radio. I did a prudent thing which is exactly spelled out in the rules. The skipper of the yacht has no way from his bridge of assessing my prudence however and that could get him in trouble some day. -- Roger Long |
Dangerous Maga-yacht in Maine
There was no conflicting traffic. I was alone on the boat.
-- Roger Long |
VHF Radios onboard was Dangerous Maga-yacht in Maine
"Gary" wrote
Furthermore, if (a radio) is onboard why wouldn't you make best use of it as required by the Colregs? (I interpret the rules to say that if you have one you must use it. Just like radar etc. "all available means") Gary The fact that I chose to resolve this situation without the use of the radio has nothing to do with the behavior of the yacht. Your position that you "must" use a radio would imply that you must talk to every vessel you cross. Do you really do that? Do you really think that on a Sunday afternoon in a busy harbor every boat out there should be making calls about every crossing? Many crossing situations would be over before the participants could figure out which white sailboat or Searay they were talking about. I made extensive use of the radio at untowered airports back when I was flying so I've got a good idea of the theory and practice of non-directional verbal communication as used to avoid collisions. The biggest problem in aviation radio use, where almost everyone is talking, if frequency congestion. The major cause of near misses and collisions is confusion about whether the Cessna 172 you are talking to is the one you see ahead or the one 100 feet below and behind you who can't see you through his wing. The primary thing keeping air traffic straightened out where there is no ATC or tower is everyone following right of way rules and behaving in a predictable fashion. The radio is a secondary back up. As soon as pilots start using the radio as the primary tool, relying on it rather than proper behavior, things get hairy. This happens a lot because there are ass holes in the air as well as on the water. The common aviation equivalent of what we have been discussing is the twin engine aircraft. Typically, everyone in their singles and the well behaved twins will be fitting into the traffic pattern, reporting their positions, maintaining spacing in an orderly fashion, and landing in nice sequence. Suddenly there will be a call, "Baron N23ASS on long final 18 straight in" Everyone has to peel off, scatter to in all directions, figure out where everyone is again and set up the traffic pattern while the twin is tying down and getting the last available courtesy car. -- Roger Long |
Dangerous Maga-yacht in Maine
"Wayne.B" wrote
Sailing single handed in a strong breeze does not excuse anyone from seamanlike obligations or responsibilities Why is there no comment about being 228 feet long and owned by someone richer than God not excusing an operator from seamanlike obligations or responsibilities? (the radio) could/should have been readily at hand and turned on The radio is a back up. Contact is not necessary for the rules of the road to be in force. Radio break, not all boats have radios, operating a vessel in this situation with the expectation that you don't have to observe the rules of the road unless you get a radio call is neither seamanlike nor responsible. , sail could/should have been shortened to a more managable level, an autopilot could/should be available when single or short handing. Come on, that's like saying all powerboats should be operated slower because it will give everyone more time to react to crossing situations. My vessel was quite managable. It's not that I couldn't get the radio but that it was easier to simply run off. I ended up closer to Ram Island than I would have liked but I still cleared it. You have some dangerous preconceptions. Look, this is not about me. I handled it smoothly and easily. I expect this kind of "blind on autopilot" behavior from fishing vessels. Their crews are dead tired and their world is crumbling around them as they try to keep up with mortgages. I also expect it from large vessels that I selfishly don't want dodging every small yacht among the obstructions of Maine, even if they aren't in the channel. My post was about the fact that a no expense spared vessel, presumably with crew of similar caliber to the paint job, whose Captain and crew had just spent two weeks tied to the dock in Portland's most luxurious spot, could behave this way with no way of assessing skill level, radio functioning (or even existence), etc. aboard my vessel. The rules of the road don't require them to think about these things, they simply require them to punch 2 -3 degrees into the autopilot for five minutes at the appropriate time and then back. There is nothing in the rules of the road that says they don't have to do this unless there is radio contact. If I had been closely obstructed by the shore or had a sheet jammed in a winch, I certainly would have made a radio call. I could have done it but it was easier to just divert it a way that made it obvious I was going to keep clear. I handled it properly and differently than you might have but THAT'S NOT THE DAMN POINT! -- Roger Long |
VHF Radios onboard was Dangerous Maga-yacht in Maine
In article ydzzg.289377$iF6.117034@pd7tw2no, Gary wrote: I don't think that VHF radios are required on small pleasure craft but I wonder why everybody wouldn't have one as a basic safety onboard safety item? You would think. And also a GPS so you would know where you were if you got into trouble. I often hear (on the radio) where someone is lost and has no idea where they are - complicated by the fact that there are several different places with the same name in the Chesapeake. But there are indeed boats with no radios, or at least they aren't using them. In 2002 when we were coming north from Ft. Pierce, I wrote: There is a large white wooden ketch from Montreal which has been behind us, but was slowly catching up to us. He was behind us yesterday, and must have stopped somewhere behind us, and he's behind us again, although he is slowly reeling us in. Four power boats went by him, and he was yawing and pitching wildly in their wake. They went by us too. We have the sail up to steady us though, and we don't pitch as much. He eventually catches us, and we follow him through the Matanzas Inlet, and don't go aground although the alarm goes off a couple of times. The TowBoatUS guy that appears to be stationed here permanently is fishing from his boat. A boat with a round bow that looks like a little tug named CLOONFUSH passed us. It has a medallion figurehead lion on the front. When we came to the last bridge before the San Sebastian River, I called the bridge (as I usually did) to request an opening. The bridge tender asked me if we knew what were the intentions of a boat which he said was anchored there in front of the bridge. It was the big white wooden ketch, with a red kayak as a dinghy. It appeared to be skippered by a single hander from Canada. I didn't know what to tell the bridge tender of course, but as we came up to him, we saw him hastily pulling his anchor, so I reported to the bridge that he had apparently been waiting for someone else to go through the bridge because he either didn't have a radio or didn't know how to hail the bridge. So he went through with us, and stuck close behind us (we'd also passed him north of Titusville and he was going a lot slower than we were then). We got to the turn off, and he started to come up the Sebastian River with us. I think he thought he could to go through the Bridge of Lions with us but was foiled because we weren't going there. grandma Rosalie S/V RosalieAnn, Leonardtown, MD CSY 44 WO #156 http://home.mindspring.com/~gmbeasley/id1.html |
VHF Radios onboard was Dangerous Maga-yacht in Maine
Rosalie B. wrote:
In article ydzzg.289377$iF6.117034@pd7tw2no, Gary wrote: I don't think that VHF radios are required on small pleasure craft but I wonder why everybody wouldn't have one as a basic safety onboard safety item? You would think. And also a GPS so you would know where you were if you got into trouble. I often hear (on the radio) where someone is lost and has no idea where they are - complicated by the fact that there are several different places with the same name in the Chesapeake. But there are indeed boats with no radios, or at least they aren't using them. In 2002 when we were coming north from Ft. Pierce, I wrote: There is a large white wooden ketch from Montreal which has been behind us, but was slowly catching up to us. He was behind us yesterday, and must have stopped somewhere behind us, and he's behind us again, although he is slowly reeling us in. Four power boats went by him, and he was yawing and pitching wildly in their wake. They went by us too. We have the sail up to steady us though, and we don't pitch as much. He eventually catches us, and we follow him through the Matanzas Inlet, and don't go aground although the alarm goes off a couple of times. The TowBoatUS guy that appears to be stationed here permanently is fishing from his boat. A boat with a round bow that looks like a little tug named CLOONFUSH passed us. It has a medallion figurehead lion on the front. When we came to the last bridge before the San Sebastian River, I called the bridge (as I usually did) to request an opening. The bridge tender asked me if we knew what were the intentions of a boat which he said was anchored there in front of the bridge. It was the big white wooden ketch, with a red kayak as a dinghy. It appeared to be skippered by a single hander from Canada. I didn't know what to tell the bridge tender of course, but as we came up to him, we saw him hastily pulling his anchor, so I reported to the bridge that he had apparently been waiting for someone else to go through the bridge because he either didn't have a radio or didn't know how to hail the bridge. So he went through with us, and stuck close behind us (we'd also passed him north of Titusville and he was going a lot slower than we were then). We got to the turn off, and he started to come up the Sebastian River with us. I think he thought he could to go through the Bridge of Lions with us but was foiled because we weren't going there. grandma Rosalie S/V RosalieAnn, Leonardtown, MD CSY 44 WO #156 http://home.mindspring.com/~gmbeasley/id1.html Sounds like he liked the 'cut of your jib'....or at least the shape of your stern. ;-) |
Dangerous Maga-yacht in Maine
Oops, I must have misread or G misremembered something......I thought you
had people below. As for conflicting traffic, I often find in these discussions that there is multiple traffic in the area and although the person discussing the situation thinks that they are the prime situation, after some talking it becomes apparent that there may have been more than two vessels meeting and the possibility exist that they are/were not the most dangerous target from the standpoint of the vessel they had a problem with. Whenever talking about large vessels versus smaller (having been there done that from both sides) I try and stress that there is no one right answer and you need to be ready for them to pull the "Rule of GT". otn "Roger Long" wrote in message ... There was no conflicting traffic. I was alone on the boat. -- Roger Long |
VHF Radios onboard was Dangerous Maga-yacht in Maine
"Rosalie B." wrote in message
... In article ydzzg.289377$iF6.117034@pd7tw2no, Gary wrote: I don't think that VHF radios are required on small pleasure craft but I wonder why everybody wouldn't have one as a basic safety onboard safety item? You would think. And also a GPS so you would know where you were if you got into trouble. I often hear (on the radio) where someone is lost and has no idea where they are - complicated by the fact that there are several different places with the same name in the Chesapeake. I'm fairly leery of relying on GPS for most anything when simple observation is available. Maybe someday with AIS and other technologies you'll be able to see all the hazards on the water without looking around, but I don't thnk that'll happen any time soon. It's great for a general idea of where you are and where you're going. Beyond that on inland waters, I don't use it, except for fun. Sounds like a good idea in the Chesapeake of course. But there are indeed boats with no radios, or at least they aren't using them. In 2002 when we were coming north from Ft. Pierce, I wrote: There is a large white wooden ketch from Montreal which has been behind us, but was slowly catching up to us. He was behind us yesterday, and must have stopped somewhere behind us, and he's behind us again, although he is slowly reeling us in. Four power boats went by him, and he was yawing and pitching wildly in their wake. They went by us too. We have the sail up to steady us though, and we don't pitch as much. He eventually catches us, and we follow him through the Matanzas Inlet, and don't go aground although the alarm goes off a couple of times. The TowBoatUS guy that appears to be stationed here permanently is fishing from his boat. A boat with a round bow that looks like a little tug named CLOONFUSH passed us. It has a medallion figurehead lion on the front. I like the bigger boat theory... if it can go there, so can I. :-) When we came to the last bridge before the San Sebastian River, I called the bridge (as I usually did) to request an opening. The bridge tender asked me if we knew what were the intentions of a boat which he said was anchored there in front of the bridge. It was the big white wooden ketch, with a red kayak as a dinghy. It appeared to be skippered by a single hander from Canada. I didn't know what to tell the bridge tender of course, but as we came up to him, we saw him hastily pulling his anchor, so I reported to the bridge that he had apparently been waiting for someone else to go through the bridge because he either didn't have a radio or didn't know how to hail the bridge. So he went through with us, and stuck close behind us (we'd also passed him north of Titusville and he was going a lot slower than we were then). He was waiting for you! :-) We got to the turn off, and he started to come up the Sebastian River with us. I think he thought he could to go through the Bridge of Lions with us but was foiled because we weren't going there. grandma Rosalie S/V RosalieAnn, Leonardtown, MD CSY 44 WO #156 http://home.mindspring.com/~gmbeasley/id1.html |
Dangerous Maga-yacht in Maine
Let me start by saying that I am in favor of using the radio
but I can see Roger's point. "Wayne.B" wrote Sailing single handed in a strong breeze does not excuse anyone from seamanlike obligations or responsibilities He didn't abidcate any of his responsibilities, nor do anything unseamanlike. Roger Long wrote: Why is there no comment about being 228 feet long and owned by someone richer than God not excusing an operator from seamanlike obligations or responsibilities? Just because.... maybe it's "Pick On Roger Day" or maybe the secret powerboat cabal is working overtime to prove you're really the one at fault here. (the radio) could/should have been readily at hand and turned on Agreed. The radio is a back up. Hmm, that is an interesting point of view... would you say that out loud in an Admiralty court? ... Contact is not necessary for the rules of the road to be in force. True Radio break, not all boats have radios, True Another issue that nobody has brought up yet is that radio communication often is not fully or clearly understood, leading to a different response than might be desirable. Also, radio communication takes time and when two vessels are on a collision course that can be a very precious commodity. operating a vessel in this situation with the expectation that you don't have to observe the rules of the road unless you get a radio call is neither seamanlike nor responsible. Very true , sail could/should have been shortened to a more managable level, an autopilot could/should be available when single or short handing. Come on, that's like saying all powerboats should be operated slower because it will give everyone more time to react to crossing situations. It's like saying all sailboats should douse sail and start using motors every time any other vessel is anywhere near them. It's like saying stand-on vessels must maintain speed & course even if it puts thme up on the rocks. Why not just make boating illegal. It'd be safer and eliminate a lot of confusion... cheaper too ;) My vessel was quite managable. It's not that I couldn't get the radio but that it was easier to simply run off. I ended up closer to Ram Island than I would have liked but I still cleared it. And there is certainly some virtue in taking unilateral action, rather than equivocate and say "Gee I should use the radio." But then to some extent, you also forfeit your right to complain about the other guy's lack of obedience to ColRegs. For all you know, that captain may have been watching you... maybe his computerized radar keeping a constant real-time plot of your projected course and CPA... and saying to himself, 'If that guy doesn't either tack or get a header in the next 20 seconds, I've going to turn a few degrees and give him a little more sea room.' Then he saw you alter course, and said to himself 'hmm, he did get a header, I don't have to.' My post was about the fact that a no expense spared vessel, presumably with crew of similar caliber to the paint job, whose Captain and crew had just spent two weeks tied to the dock in Portland's most luxurious spot, could behave this way with no way of assessing skill level, radio functioning (or even existence), etc. aboard my vessel. The rules of the road don't require them to think about these things, they simply require them to punch 2 -3 degrees into the autopilot for five minutes at the appropriate time and then back. Yeah, that would have been nice. FWIW there has been a perceived decline in the professionalism of professional captains along the ICW down here, too. And a lot more weekend warrior jackasses in Sea Rays, too. ... There is nothing in the rules of the road that says they don't have to do this unless there is radio contact. True. But there is no reason for you to raise such a storm of kvetching. You don't know what that captain intended or was about to do. If I had been closely obstructed by the shore or had a sheet jammed in a winch, I certainly would have made a radio call. And others have just been trying to make the point that the radio is often not considered a last resort. ... I could have done it but it was easier to just divert it a way that made it obvious I was going to keep clear. I handled it properly and differently than you might have but THAT'S NOT THE DAMN POINT! Well, for some people it is ;) Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
VHF Radios onboard was Dangerous Maga-yacht in Maine
"Roger Long" wrote in message ... The common aviation equivalent of what we have been discussing is the twin engine aircraft. Typically, everyone in their singles and the well behaved twins will be fitting into the traffic pattern, reporting their positions, maintaining spacing in an orderly fashion, and landing in nice sequence. Suddenly there will be a call, "Baron N23ASS on long final 18 straight in" Everyone has to peel off, scatter to in all directions, figure out where everyone is again and set up the traffic pattern while the twin is tying down and getting the last available courtesy car. Been there and done that, but didn't buy the T-shirt. Leanne |
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:03 AM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2014 BoatBanter.com