Dual Shore Power hook up question
 

Gerald, Gerald. Firstly, there's no such thing as the "right of way" in the
colregs.

Secondly, as I said, "mostly incorrect." Of course, there are situations
when the sailboat must give way. You cited one of them. However, most of the
time, with sail over power, the sailboat is stand on. Besides situations
where there are commercial fishing boat engaged in fishing, tankers with
restricted maneuverability and the like, other vessels must give way.

Sounds to me like you need to review the colregs. Perhaps it's been a while.
Look at Rule 18 and go from there.

--
"j" ganz @@
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"Gerald" wrote in message
...
What is it that you disagree with? Do you know the rules???

Sail boats DO NOT have right of way over anything. Do you think a
sailboat is other than the giveway vessle when overtaking a powerboat
(maybe just ideling along)? Try actually reading the rules and you will
see that there are many other situations where sailboats must giveway to
power vessels.

FWIW -- I have over 50 years of sail experience and 10 years of power
experience. I have held 100ton ofshore masters license for 10 years.



"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
And mostly incorrect.

--
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"Scotty" wrote in message
...
Just another idiot powerboater whine.....


"Gerald" wrote in message
Many sailors think they always have "right-of-way" over
powerboats. The
rules DO discuss a few situations where sailboats are the
Stand On Vessel.
While these few cases are probably the most common
situations most people
deal with on a day-to-basis - mostly crossing --- the
situations in the
rules where a sailboat may be the Give Way vessel are more
numerous. Many
sailors seem to operate onder the "Sail over Power"
concept that does not (I
don't think ever did) exist. Sailboats are frequently
under obligation to
stay clear of motor vessels.

Dual Shore Power hook up question
 

No there isn't. Please cite that rule for us.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Gerald" wrote in message
...
Actually there is a Right of Way provision in the rules. This must be one
of the rules you don't know.

Dual Shore Power hook up question
 

Rule 16.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 14:04:08 +0200, Lars Kristensen
wrote:

If the powerboats kept well clear of the sailboat

There is no requirement for anyone to keep "well clear".

Dual Shore Power hook up question
 

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Gerald, Gerald. Firstly, there's no such thing as the "right of way" in
the colregs.

Sorry Capt. you are wrong. Please check Rule 9 para(a) (iii) and you will
see the one place where Right-of-way does exist.

Secondly, as I said, "mostly incorrect." Of course, there are situations
when the sailboat must give way. You cited one of them.

Surely you don't want me to continue listing the situations where a sailing
vessle must give way to power driven vessels( and no, I am not including
RAMs, NUCs, fishing, etc.) If you actually are a USCG Licensed Master then I
am confident that you are immediatly aware of others.

However, most of the time, with sail over power, the sailboat is stand on.

True enough that in most day to day situations the sailing, fishing, RAM,
NUC hierarchy applys. Its the exceptions and various special cases that I am
addressing: They exist. There are several of them.

Even with the excpetions, one must understand the obligations of a stand on
vessel. The stand on vessel is REQUIRED to maintain her course and
speed --- not tack into the path of another vessel and expect get the good
old 'sail over power' stuff.

Besides situations where there are commercial fishing boat engaged in
fishing, tankers with restricted maneuverability and the like, other
vessels must give way.

Sounds to me like you need to review the colregs. Perhaps it's been a
while. Look at Rule 18 and go from there.

Sorry Capt. I know them cold. If you don't have a copy to check out the
right of way paragraph, you can find a copy on the USCG web site.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Gerald" wrote in message
...
What is it that you disagree with? Do you know the rules???

Sail boats DO NOT have right of way over anything. Do you think a
sailboat is other than the giveway vessle when overtaking a powerboat
(maybe just ideling along)? Try actually reading the rules and you will
see that there are many other situations where sailboats must giveway to
power vessels.

FWIW -- I have over 50 years of sail experience and 10 years of power
experience. I have held 100ton ofshore masters license for 10 years.



"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
And mostly incorrect.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
...
Just another idiot powerboater whine.....


"Gerald" wrote in message
Many sailors think they always have "right-of-way" over
powerboats. The
rules DO discuss a few situations where sailboats are the
Stand On Vessel.
While these few cases are probably the most common
situations most people
deal with on a day-to-basis - mostly crossing --- the
situations in the
rules where a sailboat may be the Give Way vessel are more
numerous. Many
sailors seem to operate onder the "Sail over Power"
concept that does not (I
don't think ever did) exist. Sailboats are frequently
under obligation to
stay clear of motor vessels.

Dual Shore Power hook up question
 

Rule 9 para(a) (iii)


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
No there isn't. Please cite that rule for us.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Gerald" wrote in message
...
Actually there is a Right of Way provision in the rules. This must be
one of the rules you don't know.

Dual Shore Power hook up question
 

Well, we're both half right... see the explanation of right-of-way:

The International Navigation Rules do not confer upon any vessel the right
of way however, certain vessels in sight of each other are responsible to
keep out of the way of others. Usually, power-driven vessels are to keep out
of the way of a vessel not under command or restricted in her ability to
maneuver, sailing vessels or a vessel engaged in fishing. However, some
exceptions exist when they themselves are not in command or restricted in
her ability to maneuver (Rule 18), overtaking another vessel (Rule 13), are
navigating a narrow channel or fairway (Rule 9), and other less explicit
circumstances.

Surely, you don't actually believe "sailboat may be the Give Way vessel are
more numerous," since this is clearly wrong. Feel free to make a
comprehensive list and get back to us.

I have no problem with this:

Even with the excpetions, one must understand the obligations of a stand
on vessel. The stand on vessel is REQUIRED to maintain her course and
speed --- not tack into the path of another vessel and expect get the good
old 'sail over power' stuff.

And, I suggest that you obviously don't know them "cold," since you
misquoted the "right-of-way" language.

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/mwv_FAQ/right_of_way.htm

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Gerald" wrote in message
...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Gerald, Gerald. Firstly, there's no such thing as the "right of way" in
the colregs.

Sorry Capt. you are wrong. Please check Rule 9 para(a) (iii) and you will
see the one place where Right-of-way does exist.

Secondly, as I said, "mostly incorrect." Of course, there are situations
when the sailboat must give way. You cited one of them.

Surely you don't want me to continue listing the situations where a
sailing vessle must give way to power driven vessels( and no, I am not
including RAMs, NUCs, fishing, etc.) If you actually are a USCG Licensed
Master then I am confident that you are immediatly aware of others.

However, most of the time, with sail over power, the sailboat is stand
on.

True enough that in most day to day situations the sailing, fishing, RAM,
NUC hierarchy applys. Its the exceptions and various special cases that I
am addressing: They exist. There are several of them.

Even with the excpetions, one must understand the obligations of a stand
on vessel. The stand on vessel is REQUIRED to maintain her course and
speed --- not tack into the path of another vessel and expect get the good
old 'sail over power' stuff.

Besides situations where there are commercial fishing boat engaged in
fishing, tankers with restricted maneuverability and the like, other
vessels must give way.

Sounds to me like you need to review the colregs. Perhaps it's been a
while. Look at Rule 18 and go from there.

Sorry Capt. I know them cold. If you don't have a copy to check out the
right of way paragraph, you can find a copy on the USCG web site.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Gerald" wrote in message
...
What is it that you disagree with? Do you know the rules???

Sail boats DO NOT have right of way over anything. Do you think a
sailboat is other than the giveway vessle when overtaking a powerboat
(maybe just ideling along)? Try actually reading the rules and you will
see that there are many other situations where sailboats must giveway to
power vessels.

FWIW -- I have over 50 years of sail experience and 10 years of power
experience. I have held 100ton ofshore masters license for 10 years.



"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
And mostly incorrect.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
...
Just another idiot powerboater whine.....


"Gerald" wrote in message
Many sailors think they always have "right-of-way" over
powerboats. The
rules DO discuss a few situations where sailboats are the
Stand On Vessel.
While these few cases are probably the most common
situations most people
deal with on a day-to-basis - mostly crossing --- the
situations in the
rules where a sailboat may be the Give Way vessel are more
numerous. Many
sailors seem to operate onder the "Sail over Power"
concept that does not (I
don't think ever did) exist. Sailboats are frequently
under obligation to
stay clear of motor vessels.

Dual Shore Power hook up question
 

Except:

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/mwv_FAQ/right_of_way.htm

I guess you need a refresher.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Gerald" wrote in message
...
Rule 9 para(a) (iii)


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
No there isn't. Please cite that rule for us.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Gerald" wrote in message
...
Actually there is a Right of Way provision in the rules. This must be
one of the rules you don't know.

Dual Shore Power hook up question
 

"Gerald" wrote in
Somewhat.

Not a genious. I just KNOW the rules ---- not just
'somewhat' know them ---
whatever the **** that means.


it means that I'm not a big pompous ass who claims to know
ALL the rules.


SV




I never while about the rules. I know the rules.

Dual Shore Power hook up question
 

"Gerald" wrote in

I have no need to know the rules.

Pay no attention to Scotty. He seems to have OD'd on
knee
jerk
reactions.

Nope, just an opinion after several decades of sailing,
and
putting up with idiot stinkpotters.

SBV


I am sure that many "stinkpotters" with similar
experiences would come to
the same conclusions

Yes, I've seen stinkpotters act rude to their own kind.

SV

Dual Shore Power hook up question
 

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Well, we're both half right... see the explanation of right-of-way:

The International Navigation Rules do not confer upon any vessel the right
of way

true ... see below

however, certain vessels in sight of each other are responsible to keep out
of the way of others. Usually, power-driven vessels are to keep out of the
way of a vessel not under command or restricted in her ability to maneuver,
sailing vessels or a vessel engaged in fishing. However, some exceptions
exist when they themselves are not in command or restricted in her ability
to maneuver (Rule 18), overtaking another vessel (Rule 13), are navigating
a narrow channel or fairway (Rule 9), and other less explicit
circumstances.

Surely, you don't actually believe "sailboat may be the Give Way vessel
are more numerous," since this is clearly wrong. Feel free to make a
comprehensive list and get back to us.

My silly point was that there are more rules in the books that say something
to the effect that a sailboat must act in a give-way manner than there are
rules that say they are stand on.

Rules that give Sailboats "stand on" obligations
INTERNATIONAL and INLAND 18 (b)

Rules that either give sailboats "giveway" obligations or provide
obligations that are different than 18(b) above:
INTERNATIONAL and INLAND 9 (b)
INTERNATIONAL and INLAND 9 (d)
INTERNATIONAL and INLAND 10 (j)
INTERNATIONAL and INLAND 13 (a)

INTERNATIONAL and INLAND 19 treats all vessles as equals -- no special
treatment for vessels under sail.

To name just 5


I have no problem with this:

Even with the excpetions, one must understand the obligations of a stand
on vessel. The stand on vessel is REQUIRED to maintain her course and
speed --- not tack into the path of another vessel and expect get the
good old 'sail over power' stuff.

And, I suggest that you obviously don't know them "cold," since you
misquoted the "right-of-way" language.

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/mwv_FAQ/right_of_way.htm

Again, sorry but...

Extracted directly from the INLAND rules...
Rule 9 (a)..

"(ii) Notwithstanding paragraph (a)(i) and Rule 14(a), a power-driven
vessel operating in narrow channels or fairways on the Great Lakes, Western
Rivers, or waters specified by the Secretary, and proceeding downbound with
a following current shall have the right-of-way over an upbound vessel,
shall propose the manner and place of passage, and shall initiate the
maneuvering signals prescribed by Rule 34(a)(i), as appropriate. The vessel
proceeding upbound against the current shall hold as necessary to permit
safe passing."


There is a difference between the INTERNATIONAL and INLAND rules in this
case. International rules do not have this provision. My statement that
there is a Right-of-Way rule in the books applied to the INLAND rules, not
the INTERNATIONAL rules.

I know them cold...


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Gerald" wrote in message
...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Gerald, Gerald. Firstly, there's no such thing as the "right of way" in
the colregs.

Sorry Capt. you are wrong. Please check Rule 9 para(a) (iii) and you
will see the one place where Right-of-way does exist.

Secondly, as I said, "mostly incorrect." Of course, there are situations
when the sailboat must give way. You cited one of them.

Surely you don't want me to continue listing the situations where a
sailing vessle must give way to power driven vessels( and no, I am not
including RAMs, NUCs, fishing, etc.) If you actually are a USCG Licensed
Master then I am confident that you are immediatly aware of others.

However, most of the time, with sail over power, the sailboat is stand
on.

True enough that in most day to day situations the sailing, fishing, RAM,
NUC hierarchy applys. Its the exceptions and various special cases that I
am addressing: They exist. There are several of them.

Even with the excpetions, one must understand the obligations of a stand
on vessel. The stand on vessel is REQUIRED to maintain her course and
speed --- not tack into the path of another vessel and expect get the
good old 'sail over power' stuff.

Besides situations where there are commercial fishing boat engaged in
fishing, tankers with restricted maneuverability and the like, other
vessels must give way.

Sounds to me like you need to review the colregs. Perhaps it's been a
while. Look at Rule 18 and go from there.

Sorry Capt. I know them cold. If you don't have a copy to check out the
right of way paragraph, you can find a copy on the USCG web site.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Gerald" wrote in message
...
What is it that you disagree with? Do you know the rules???

Sail boats DO NOT have right of way over anything. Do you think a
sailboat is other than the giveway vessle when overtaking a powerboat
(maybe just ideling along)? Try actually reading the rules and you
will see that there are many other situations where sailboats must
giveway to power vessels.

FWIW -- I have over 50 years of sail experience and 10 years of power
experience. I have held 100ton ofshore masters license for 10 years.



"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
And mostly incorrect.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
...
Just another idiot powerboater whine.....


"Gerald" wrote in message
Many sailors think they always have "right-of-way" over
powerboats. The
rules DO discuss a few situations where sailboats are the
Stand On Vessel.
While these few cases are probably the most common
situations most people
deal with on a day-to-basis - mostly crossing --- the
situations in the
rules where a sailboat may be the Give Way vessel are more
numerous. Many
sailors seem to operate onder the "Sail over Power"
concept that does not (I
don't think ever did) exist. Sailboats are frequently
under obligation to
stay clear of motor vessels.