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#1
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Golf Cart batteries / What I have learned
Jim wrote in
ink.net: I'm upgrading my charger to a Xantrex "True Charge" 40 amp, 3 stage charger. The "Equalizer" function is important to maintain the batteries. The batteries only need 20A, so that leaves you with 20A of load current while the charger is on. The battery store guy should know better. 220 ampere-hours has nothing to do with 220 amps. Ampere-Hour is a measure of the stored energy in the battery. The "rating" only holds true for ONE load, the load that drains it in 20 hours (that's about standard in the battery biz). 11 amps will drain it in 20 hours, so that would be the "standard load" for this battery. The slower you discharge it, the more ampere-hours of energy it will produce, way beyond its rating. The FASTER you discharge it, more than 11 amps, the LESS its ampere-hour capacity is at that load. This is caused by chemistry and physics. The chemistry is the speed at which the acid can eat away at the soft lead plate's surface area. Quickly discharging it with a heavy load, the acid by the plate is quickly consumed into lead sulphate ions in suspension, blocking more acid from attacking the plate surface. So, it's not some incredible limit. Starting batteries overcome this problem with an incredible number of plates producing an incredible surface area that can produce an incredible instantaneous current.....but for a price. To keep the physical battery size, the plates have to be very thin. Their amp-hour rating is actually very low, as anyone who has been cranking a dead motor for a few minutes when the lights go out can attest. Deep discharge batteries use thick plates with lots of lead to eat and much more acid to eat them....at a slower rate, 20 hours standard. At 50A, and I'm only guessing as I don't have a chart in front of me but you can find them on the net, the AH rating of the 220 AH battery is probably about half, maybe a little more. Well, you get the picture. It's not a bottomless pit of power, actually kind of small for its weight. Nice charger, but you'll only see 40A charging them for a few minutes before the charge quickly tapers off to a safe charging level below 20A. If you never discharge them below specific gravity of 1.125, they'll last a long time. |
#2
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Golf Cart batteries / What I have learned
Larry wrote:
Jim wrote in ink.net: I'm upgrading my charger to a Xantrex "True Charge" 40 amp, 3 stage charger. The "Equalizer" function is important to maintain the batteries. The batteries only need 20A, so that leaves you with 20A of load current while the charger is on. The specs call for the 20 to charge a bank 100 to 400 amps. the 40 calls for 400 + I will have 440. I know it's ONLY 105 over . . .my thinking is to buy the right one the first time. The battery store guy should know better. He said two 6v 220 amp batteries will give 12v, 440 amps. 220 ampere-hours has nothing to do with 220 amps. Ampere-Hour is a measure of the stored energy in the battery. The "rating" only holds true for ONE load, the load that drains it in 20 hours (that's about standard in the battery biz). 11 amps will drain it in 20 hours, so that would be the "standard load" for this battery. The slower you discharge it, the more ampere-hours of energy it will produce, way beyond its rating. The FASTER you discharge it, more than 11 amps, the LESS its ampere-hour capacity is at that load. This is caused by chemistry and physics. The chemistry is the speed at which the acid can eat away at the soft lead plate's surface area. Quickly discharging it with a heavy load, the acid by the plate is quickly consumed into lead sulphate ions in suspension, blocking more acid from attacking the plate surface. So, it's not some incredible limit. Starting batteries overcome this problem with an incredible number of plates producing an incredible surface area that can produce an incredible instantaneous current.....but for a price. To keep the physical battery size, the plates have to be very thin. Their amp-hour rating is actually very low, as anyone who has been cranking a dead motor for a few minutes when the lights go out can attest. Deep discharge batteries use thick plates with lots of lead to eat and much more acid to eat them....at a slower rate, 20 hours standard. At 50A, and I'm only guessing as I don't have a chart in front of me but you can find them on the net, the AH rating of the 220 AH battery is probably about half, maybe a little more. Well, you get the picture. It's not a bottomless pit of power, actually kind of small for its weight. Nice charger, but you'll only see 40A charging them for a few minutes before the charge quickly tapers off to a safe charging level below 20A. If you never discharge them below specific gravity of 1.125, they'll last a long time. |
#3
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Golf Cart batteries / What I have learned
Jim wrote in news:zpHrg.1717$vO.610
@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net: He said two 6v 220 amp batteries will give 12v, 440 amps. Nope....nice dream, though. Two 6V 220 AH in series gives you 12V at 220AH, not 440 AH. It's still only 220AH, just the voltage doubled. The plates didn't get any bigger in the cells when you connected them in series. You can get 440AH at 6V by parallelling them....doubling the plate area.... |
#4
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Golf Cart batteries / What I have learned
Larry wrote:
. . . Nice charger, but you'll only see 40A charging them for a few minutes before the charge quickly tapers off to a safe charging level below 20A. Hmm. Assuming 2 6v Trojan T-105s or equivalent (or an 8D), 220ah capacity, discharged 50%, a 40 amp charge rate is only 20% of the bank's capacity, quite safe. The bank probably won't even get warm. If you're in a hurry, charging at a 40% rate, 80 amps (typical alternator output), would shorten the life of the bank slightly, and warm things up a bit, but still would be a "safe" charging rate. A 40 amp charger should put out 40 amps for two hours or so, before the rising voltage causes the charger to start tapering off (70%-80% charged) down ultimately to 5 to 10 amps or so ( 2% to 5% of bank capacity, depending on age and battery design), where it should stay for a half hour or so (14.4 volts, Trojan says 14.8!), to gas the batteries for a while to mix the electrolyte thoroughly and bring the bank up those last few amp-hours to full charge. This is *not* an equalization charge. Then you can either turn the charger off, or, if it's smart, it'll drop back to a float charge, 13.2 volts or so, so you can run stuff without discharging the bank. OTOH, if you're hooked up to shore power and have all night to charge, there's nothing wrong with charging at 10% of the bank's capacity (20 amps or so), which will prolong the bank's service life slightly. But there's nothing *unsafe* about an initial 40 amp (20% of capacity) charge rate on a discharged bank. |
#5
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Golf Cart batteries / What I have learned
Sorry Larry, you have some misinformation here. First of all, a pair
of Trojan T105's will happily accept 40-50 Amps for an extended period. I have 4 of them, and on a daily basis (when cruising) charge them with a 110 Amp alternator. The charge rate starts at about 104 Amps, and slowly goes down. After about an hour it might be down to 65-70 Amps, which is where I'll usually stop. My 100 Amp charger also hold the charge rate fairly high. Secondly, although I don't often discharge at 50 Amps for an extended period, most of my battery use is powering a DC fridge which draws 28 to 36 Amps. There is no evidence that this significantly reduces the capacity of my bank. I normally discharge to about 50% (down 200-210 Amp-hours) and at that point the bank is still holding about 12 Volts under load. This affect is described empirically by Peukert's Equation. For each battery design there is an exponent that allows you to predict a battery's performance as you vary the load. Using 1.24 as a typical "good" exponent means that 4 times the load drains the battery 5.6 times faster, implying an increase drain of a bit over a third. Looking at the specs from Trojan: http://www.trojan-battery.com/Produc...spx?Name=T-105 and Penn: http://www.eastpenn-deka.com/products/pdfs/0248.pdf it looks like they do about that. You would have to have a very high discharge rate - close to 200 Amps - to reduce to capacity by half. If you were actually interested in a battery for a high output application, such as an electric car, you might look for one with an exponent down around 1.1. Its possible that my regime of high discharge and fast charging has reduced the life of my batteries. But my first set lasted 7 years and and may have gone a few more if illness had not interrupted their proper care one winter. However, since a few phone calls turned up a golf cart dealer that could supply them at $70 each, the cost was only $40 per year. I have noticed that my new batteries perform better than the old, but at 7 years the old set was probably only down 10-15%. Larry wrote: Jim wrote in ink.net: I'm upgrading my charger to a Xantrex "True Charge" 40 amp, 3 stage charger. The "Equalizer" function is important to maintain the batteries. The batteries only need 20A, so that leaves you with 20A of load current while the charger is on. The battery store guy should know better. 220 ampere-hours has nothing to do with 220 amps. Ampere-Hour is a measure of the stored energy in the battery. The "rating" only holds true for ONE load, the load that drains it in 20 hours (that's about standard in the battery biz). 11 amps will drain it in 20 hours, so that would be the "standard load" for this battery. The slower you discharge it, the more ampere-hours of energy it will produce, way beyond its rating. The FASTER you discharge it, more than 11 amps, the LESS its ampere-hour capacity is at that load. This is caused by chemistry and physics. The chemistry is the speed at which the acid can eat away at the soft lead plate's surface area. Quickly discharging it with a heavy load, the acid by the plate is quickly consumed into lead sulphate ions in suspension, blocking more acid from attacking the plate surface. So, it's not some incredible limit. Starting batteries overcome this problem with an incredible number of plates producing an incredible surface area that can produce an incredible instantaneous current.....but for a price. To keep the physical battery size, the plates have to be very thin. Their amp-hour rating is actually very low, as anyone who has been cranking a dead motor for a few minutes when the lights go out can attest. Deep discharge batteries use thick plates with lots of lead to eat and much more acid to eat them....at a slower rate, 20 hours standard. At 50A, and I'm only guessing as I don't have a chart in front of me but you can find them on the net, the AH rating of the 220 AH battery is probably about half, maybe a little more. Well, you get the picture. It's not a bottomless pit of power, actually kind of small for its weight. Nice charger, but you'll only see 40A charging them for a few minutes before the charge quickly tapers off to a safe charging level below 20A. If you never discharge them below specific gravity of 1.125, they'll last a long time. |
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