Butt joint Mast?
 

When I noticed a pop rivetted butt join on the mast of a new boat I
suspected a mast repair job? When asking the US mast manufacturing company
as to why a pop rivetted butt joint was present on a 45 feet long new mast,
they replied that the longest aluminium extrusion available was 40 feet
long. They also stated that it was standard practice in the industry to butt
joint the length of a mast after 40 feet. They said that their masts were
elongated by inserting an internal sleeve and securing the joint with pop
rivets. They also mentioned that other manufacturers were using butt welding
technique instead of pop rivets.

Maybe this is standard practice but it was an eye opener for me. As anyone
notices that before?

Butt joint Mast?
 

On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 19:14:01 GMT, wrote:

When I noticed a pop rivetted butt join on the mast of a new boat I
suspected a mast repair job? When asking the US mast manufacturing company
as to why a pop rivetted butt joint was present on a 45 feet long new mast,
they replied that the longest aluminium extrusion available was 40 feet
long. They also stated that it was standard practice in the industry to butt
joint the length of a mast after 40 feet. They said that their masts were
elongated by inserting an internal sleeve and securing the joint with pop
rivets. They also mentioned that other manufacturers were using butt welding
technique instead of pop rivets.

Maybe this is standard practice but it was an eye opener for me. As anyone
notices that before?

Yup, my boat.

I think, though, the max extrusion length is more than 40 feet.
Catalina 36 bridge clearance is 55 feet and they have one piece
masts.

Butt joint Mast?
 

Absolutely nothing wrong with it except the appearance of the joint.
A good place to put it is right at the spreaders where the increased
wall thickness actually helps with local loads and the joint is less
visually apparent.

--

Roger Long

Butt joint Mast?
 

wrote:

When I noticed a pop rivetted butt join on the mast of a new boat I
suspected a mast repair job? When asking the US mast manufacturing company
as to why a pop rivetted butt joint was present on a 45 feet long new mast,
they replied that the longest aluminium extrusion available was 40 feet
long. They also stated that it was standard practice in the industry to butt
joint the length of a mast after 40 feet. They said that their masts were
elongated by inserting an internal sleeve and securing the joint with pop
rivets. They also mentioned that other manufacturers were using butt welding
technique instead of pop rivets.

Maybe this is standard practice but it was an eye opener for me. As anyone
notices that before?

Standard practice.

I've had people who absolutely refuse to believe that our mast is all
one piece because he said the only boat where it wasn't that way was
carbon fiber.

Butt joint Mast?
 

Some masts are spliced not because there is a limit to extrusion length, but
there was a limit to the length of the anodising vat. Only other option is
to paint the mast.

wrote in message
...
When I noticed a pop rivetted butt join on the mast of a new boat I
suspected a mast repair job? When asking the US mast manufacturing company
as to why a pop rivetted butt joint was present on a 45 feet long new
mast, they replied that the longest aluminium extrusion available was 40
feet long. They also stated that it was standard practice in the industry
to butt joint the length of a mast after 40 feet. They said that their
masts were elongated by inserting an internal sleeve and securing the
joint with pop rivets. They also mentioned that other manufacturers were
using butt welding technique instead of pop rivets.

Maybe this is standard practice but it was an eye opener for me. As anyone
notices that before?

Butt joint Mast?
 

On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 19:14:01 GMT, wrote:

When I noticed a pop rivetted butt join on the mast of a new boat I
suspected a mast repair job? When asking the US mast manufacturing company
as to why a pop rivetted butt joint was present on a 45 feet long new mast,
they replied that the longest aluminium extrusion available was 40 feet
long. They also stated that it was standard practice in the industry to butt
joint the length of a mast after 40 feet. They said that their masts were
elongated by inserting an internal sleeve and securing the joint with pop
rivets. They also mentioned that other manufacturers were using butt welding
technique instead of pop rivets.

Maybe this is standard practice but it was an eye opener for me. As anyone
notices that before?



It's been many years, but I used to work in an aluminum extrusion
plant. We certainly were not limited to 40' max length.

Frank

Butt joint Mast?
 

Frank Boettcher wrote:

On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 19:14:01 GMT, wrote:

When I noticed a pop rivetted butt join on the mast of a new boat I
suspected a mast repair job? When asking the US mast manufacturing company
as to why a pop rivetted butt joint was present on a 45 feet long new mast,
they replied that the longest aluminium extrusion available was 40 feet
long. They also stated that it was standard practice in the industry to butt
joint the length of a mast after 40 feet. They said that their masts were
elongated by inserting an internal sleeve and securing the joint with pop
rivets. They also mentioned that other manufacturers were using butt welding
technique instead of pop rivets.

Maybe this is standard practice but it was an eye opener for me. As anyone
notices that before?

It's been many years, but I used to work in an aluminum extrusion
plant. We certainly were not limited to 40' max length.

Frank

On our type of boats, the limiting factor was shipping not
manufacture. The manufacturer used whatever they could get the best
price on and there are many different mast profiles that they used.
Some of the boats have the two piece mast and some do not.

Most of our masts were either 56 feet or 65 feet above the waterline,
and they were keel stepped so you need to add another 7 feet or so
onto that.

Butt joint Mast?
 

Why would a company like Selden tell me that they can only get 40 feet
length extrusion? Shipping could be one of the reason?
The brand new Hunter 33 I saw has a splice above the roof top. When one of
our club member drop his mast (Hunter) it broke in two parts. So when I saw
this new Hunter with a spliced mast and pop rivets It gave me food for
thought. They only other time I saw pop rivets on a sliced mast was when my
friend got dismast and had to repair it with an internal sleeve, epoxy and
pop rivets.
I am not all that convince that all mast above 40 feet are sliced. Beside
Hunter I wonder who is making new sailboats with a spliced mast?

"Rosalie B." wrote in message
...
Frank Boettcher wrote:

On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 19:14:01 GMT, wrote:

When I noticed a pop rivetted butt join on the mast of a new boat I
suspected a mast repair job? When asking the US mast manufacturing
company
as to why a pop rivetted butt joint was present on a 45 feet long new
mast,
they replied that the longest aluminium extrusion available was 40 feet
long. They also stated that it was standard practice in the industry to
butt
joint the length of a mast after 40 feet. They said that their masts were
elongated by inserting an internal sleeve and securing the joint with pop
rivets. They also mentioned that other manufacturers were using butt
welding
technique instead of pop rivets.

Maybe this is standard practice but it was an eye opener for me. As
anyone
notices that before?

It's been many years, but I used to work in an aluminum extrusion
plant. We certainly were not limited to 40' max length.

Frank

On our type of boats, the limiting factor was shipping not
manufacture. The manufacturer used whatever they could get the best
price on and there are many different mast profiles that they used.
Some of the boats have the two piece mast and some do not.

Most of our masts were either 56 feet or 65 feet above the waterline,
and they were keel stepped so you need to add another 7 feet or so
onto that.

Butt joint Mast?
 

I am in the process of researching this right at the moment.

Selden spars are produced in Sweden and dressed out in Charleston, SC.
Shipping a bunch of spars from Sweden to Charleston in a container cost
about 1/10 what shipping an individual spar "break bulk" cargo. The maximum
length you can put in a 40' container is 39'6". If you order a custom mast
(and specify no splices you pay an outrageous price and it gets shipped
break bulk. If a production builder orders a couple of dozen masts they get
shipped in containers.

That's why I think I will have my spars made in Michigan. :-)
--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

wrote in message
...
Why would a company like Selden tell me that they can only get 40 feet
length extrusion? Shipping could be one of the reason?
The brand new Hunter 33 I saw has a splice above the roof top. When one
of our club member drop his mast (Hunter) it broke in two parts. So when
I saw this new Hunter with a spliced mast and pop rivets It gave me food
for thought. They only other time I saw pop rivets on a sliced mast was
when my friend got dismast and had to repair it with an internal sleeve,
epoxy and pop rivets.
I am not all that convince that all mast above 40 feet are sliced. Beside
Hunter I wonder who is making new sailboats with a spliced mast?

"Rosalie B." wrote in message
...
Frank Boettcher wrote:

On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 19:14:01 GMT, wrote:

When I noticed a pop rivetted butt join on the mast of a new boat I
suspected a mast repair job? When asking the US mast manufacturing
company
as to why a pop rivetted butt joint was present on a 45 feet long new
mast,
they replied that the longest aluminium extrusion available was 40 feet
long. They also stated that it was standard practice in the industry to
butt
joint the length of a mast after 40 feet. They said that their masts
were
elongated by inserting an internal sleeve and securing the joint with
pop
rivets. They also mentioned that other manufacturers were using butt
welding
technique instead of pop rivets.

Maybe this is standard practice but it was an eye opener for me. As
anyone
notices that before?

It's been many years, but I used to work in an aluminum extrusion
plant. We certainly were not limited to 40' max length.

Frank

On our type of boats, the limiting factor was shipping not
manufacture. The manufacturer used whatever they could get the best
price on and there are many different mast profiles that they used.
Some of the boats have the two piece mast and some do not.

Most of our masts were either 56 feet or 65 feet above the waterline,
and they were keel stepped so you need to add another 7 feet or so
onto that.

Butt joint Mast?
 

On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 21:52:50 -0400, Glenn Ashmore wrote:

That's why I think I will have my spars made in Michigan. :-)

who/where in Michigan?

Butt joint Mast?
 

wrote:

Why would a company like Selden tell me that they can only get 40 feet
length extrusion? Shipping could be one of the reason?
The brand new Hunter 33 I saw has a splice above the roof top. When one of
our club member drop his mast (Hunter) it broke in two parts. So when I saw
this new Hunter with a spliced mast and pop rivets It gave me food for
thought. They only other time I saw pop rivets on a sliced mast was when my
friend got dismast and had to repair it with an internal sleeve, epoxy and
pop rivets.
I am not all that convince that all mast above 40 feet are sliced. Beside
Hunter I wonder who is making new sailboats with a spliced mast?

Really, if you look carefully at almost any sailboat you will see that
they have a two piece mast. Sometimes the mast is faired so that it
isn't obvious from the deck (or ground). Other times it is. Carbon
fiber masts are not spliced. Other than that - most of them are
unless it is a little boat with a short mast.

When this came up in the CSY group, some people did not believe that
they had spliced masts, and then when they pulled the mast to do some
work, they found out that it was indeed a two piece mast.


"Rosalie B." wrote in message
.. .
Frank Boettcher wrote:

On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 19:14:01 GMT, wrote:

When I noticed a pop rivetted butt join on the mast of a new boat I
suspected a mast repair job? When asking the US mast manufacturing
company
as to why a pop rivetted butt joint was present on a 45 feet long new
mast,
they replied that the longest aluminium extrusion available was 40 feet
long. They also stated that it was standard practice in the industry to
butt
joint the length of a mast after 40 feet. They said that their masts were
elongated by inserting an internal sleeve and securing the joint with pop
rivets. They also mentioned that other manufacturers were using butt
welding
technique instead of pop rivets.

Maybe this is standard practice but it was an eye opener for me. As
anyone
notices that before?

It's been many years, but I used to work in an aluminum extrusion
plant. We certainly were not limited to 40' max length.

Frank

On our type of boats, the limiting factor was shipping not
manufacture. The manufacturer used whatever they could get the best
price on and there are many different mast profiles that they used.
Some of the boats have the two piece mast and some do not.

Most of our masts were either 56 feet or 65 feet above the waterline,
and they were keel stepped so you need to add another 7 feet or so
onto that.

Butt joint Mast?
 

"prodigal1" wrote

That's why I think I will have my spars made in Michigan. :-)

who/where in Michigan?

Offshore Spars in Chesterfield, MI is at the top of my list right now with
Charleston Spar in Charlotte, NC a close second.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

Butt joint Mast?
 

Having a one piece 37 feet mast with thick wall for more than 20 years I
took it for granted that all aluminums masts were made in one piece. I
wonder if these two piece mast can survive a knock down not to mention those
that have no back stay?

"Rosalie B." wrote in message
...
wrote:

Why would a company like Selden tell me that they can only get 40 feet
length extrusion? Shipping could be one of the reason?
The brand new Hunter 33 I saw has a splice above the roof top. When one
of
our club member drop his mast (Hunter) it broke in two parts. So when I
saw
this new Hunter with a spliced mast and pop rivets It gave me food for
thought. They only other time I saw pop rivets on a sliced mast was when
my
friend got dismast and had to repair it with an internal sleeve, epoxy and
pop rivets.
I am not all that convince that all mast above 40 feet are sliced. Beside
Hunter I wonder who is making new sailboats with a spliced mast?

Really, if you look carefully at almost any sailboat you will see that
they have a two piece mast. Sometimes the mast is faired so that it
isn't obvious from the deck (or ground). Other times it is. Carbon
fiber masts are not spliced. Other than that - most of them are
unless it is a little boat with a short mast.

When this came up in the CSY group, some people did not believe that
they had spliced masts, and then when they pulled the mast to do some
work, they found out that it was indeed a two piece mast.


"Rosalie B." wrote in message
. ..
Frank Boettcher wrote:

On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 19:14:01 GMT, wrote:

When I noticed a pop rivetted butt join on the mast of a new boat I
suspected a mast repair job? When asking the US mast manufacturing
company
as to why a pop rivetted butt joint was present on a 45 feet long new
mast,
they replied that the longest aluminium extrusion available was 40 feet
long. They also stated that it was standard practice in the industry to
butt
joint the length of a mast after 40 feet. They said that their masts
were
elongated by inserting an internal sleeve and securing the joint with
pop
rivets. They also mentioned that other manufacturers were using butt
welding
technique instead of pop rivets.

Maybe this is standard practice but it was an eye opener for me. As
anyone
notices that before?

It's been many years, but I used to work in an aluminum extrusion
plant. We certainly were not limited to 40' max length.

Frank

On our type of boats, the limiting factor was shipping not
manufacture. The manufacturer used whatever they could get the best
price on and there are many different mast profiles that they used.
Some of the boats have the two piece mast and some do not.

Most of our masts were either 56 feet or 65 feet above the waterline,
and they were keel stepped so you need to add another 7 feet or so
onto that.

Butt joint Mast?
 

Rosalie B. wrote:

Most of our masts were either 56 feet or 65 feet above the waterline,
and they were keel stepped so you need to add another 7 feet or so
onto that.

Boy, do you have a deep bilge. What the heck do you draw if the keel
starts 7 feet under water???

FWIW, my "keel stepped" mast is actually on a steel I-beam, supported
by another fiberglassed huge wood beam and web supports to the side.
The base of the mast is probably 2' below the waterline or so, there's
a 33" depth reach to the bottom, which I expect is where the keel
(ballast) actually is, and however big the keel (ballast encapsulated)
actually is makes up our depth which I expect when we splash will be
about 6-6.

L8R

Skip

Butt joint Mast?
 

Wayne.B wrote:

On 7 Jul 2006 05:25:51 -0700, "Skip Gundlach"
wrote:

Boy, do you have a deep bilge. What the heck do you draw if the keel
starts 7 feet under water???

It starts 7 feet under the deck, which is hopefully well above water.

Our boats draw either 5' or 6.5' and I am math challenged so Wayne is
right - the part of the mast that is inside the cabin is about 7'
(down to the cabin sole but not including the bilge, which is pretty
deep). I think the deck is maybe 5' above the water? Don't remember
exactly. In any case the top of our mast is 58' above the waterline,
but part of that is the antennas on top.

Butt joint Mast?
 

wrote:

Having a one piece 37 feet mast with thick wall for more than 20 years I
took it for granted that all aluminums masts were made in one piece. I
wonder if these two piece mast can survive a knock down not to mention those
that have no back stay?

I do not know about a back stay, but most of the time when we (CSYs)
have rigging problems, it isn't the mast, but the chain plates that
are a problem and that is from crevice corrosion or something like
that. The boats were made from 1976 to 1980, and so are now old
boats. Many have circumnavigated and survived knock downs and the
masts were quite fine. Probably better than many new boats.

The joints that I have seen were probably the strongest part of the
mast. I've never heard of a break there and I have records on 200 or
so of them.

"Rosalie B." wrote in message
.. .
wrote:

Why would a company like Selden tell me that they can only get 40 feet
length extrusion? Shipping could be one of the reason?
The brand new Hunter 33 I saw has a splice above the roof top. When one
of
our club member drop his mast (Hunter) it broke in two parts. So when I
saw
this new Hunter with a spliced mast and pop rivets It gave me food for
thought. They only other time I saw pop rivets on a sliced mast was when
my
friend got dismast and had to repair it with an internal sleeve, epoxy and
pop rivets.
I am not all that convince that all mast above 40 feet are sliced. Beside
Hunter I wonder who is making new sailboats with a spliced mast?

Really, if you look carefully at almost any sailboat you will see that
they have a two piece mast. Sometimes the mast is faired so that it
isn't obvious from the deck (or ground). Other times it is. Carbon
fiber masts are not spliced. Other than that - most of them are
unless it is a little boat with a short mast.

When this came up in the CSY group, some people did not believe that
they had spliced masts, and then when they pulled the mast to do some
work, they found out that it was indeed a two piece mast.


"Rosalie B." wrote in message
...
Frank Boettcher wrote:

On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 19:14:01 GMT, wrote:

When I noticed a pop rivetted butt join on the mast of a new boat I
suspected a mast repair job? When asking the US mast manufacturing
company
as to why a pop rivetted butt joint was present on a 45 feet long new
mast,
they replied that the longest aluminium extrusion available was 40 feet
long. They also stated that it was standard practice in the industry to
butt
joint the length of a mast after 40 feet. They said that their masts
were
elongated by inserting an internal sleeve and securing the joint with
pop
rivets. They also mentioned that other manufacturers were using butt
welding
technique instead of pop rivets.

Maybe this is standard practice but it was an eye opener for me. As
anyone
notices that before?

It's been many years, but I used to work in an aluminum extrusion
plant. We certainly were not limited to 40' max length.

Frank

On our type of boats, the limiting factor was shipping not
manufacture. The manufacturer used whatever they could get the best
price on and there are many different mast profiles that they used.
Some of the boats have the two piece mast and some do not.

Most of our masts were either 56 feet or 65 feet above the waterline,
and they were keel stepped so you need to add another 7 feet or so
onto that.





grandma Rosalie

S/V RosalieAnn, Leonardtown, MD
CSY 44 WO #156
http://home.mindspring.com/~gmbeasley/id1.html