Having sailed the Great Lakes for some 60 years I have had ample
experience with the solid stream of freighters... They don't turn,
period... Usually there is not even anyone visible in the bridge
windows...
I long ago developed the attitude that I will immediately turn away as
soon as I see a converging track developing... I am not burning
hundreds of dollars an hour of fuel... I can turn on a dime... I like
tacking... I am sailing for pleasure... Being ground up underneath a
400 foot cement hauler is not my idea of pleasure...
And, likely the person on the bridge (if any) does not speak english
and doesn't particularily like 'rich', 'ugly americans'... Just a fact
of life for a yachtsman... Just because you think the Colregs say you
don't have to turn, doesn't mean you shouldn't...
If I were pulling a fish net or dredging, I would ignore the big guy
and let him make the quivering explanations in the Admiralty Court as
to why he ran someone down... I'm not, so I give way...

denny

That's pretty much my attitude but this "ferry" was smaller and as
maneuverable as a lot of the power yachts in the marinas. Just
having the paint and logo of the larger boats in the fleet doesn't
change the physics. Having just tacked a 32 foot boat alone few
minutes earlier and gotten settled down at the end of a long day with
the weather going downhill fast, I was sort of in the net towing
category you describe.

--

Roger Long



"Denny" wrote in message
oups.com...
Having sailed the Great Lakes for some 60 years I have had ample
experience with the solid stream of freighters... They don't turn,
period... Usually there is not even anyone visible in the bridge
windows...
I long ago developed the attitude that I will immediately turn away
as
soon as I see a converging track developing... I am not burning
hundreds of dollars an hour of fuel... I can turn on a dime... I
like
tacking... I am sailing for pleasure... Being ground up underneath a
400 foot cement hauler is not my idea of pleasure...
And, likely the person on the bridge (if any) does not speak english
and doesn't particularily like 'rich', 'ugly americans'... Just a
fact
of life for a yachtsman... Just because you think the Colregs say
you
don't have to turn, doesn't mean you shouldn't...
If I were pulling a fish net or dredging, I would ignore the big guy
and let him make the quivering explanations in the Admiralty Court
as
to why he ran someone down... I'm not, so I give way...

denny

400' ships have status over a sailing vessel in a restricted situation. I
don't know about the Great Lakes, but I've been in an overtaking situation
with a tanker in the Pacific Ocean. Being prudent, when we spotted her
coming up on the stern, we made ready to change course. However, the tanker
changed course and went around us, as they should according to the rules.

You're right, just because you have rights doesn't mean being foolish.
However, they're not following the rules and should be contacted. What's
wrong with hailing them? I don't think this has anything to do with being a
rich or ugly American. I'm sure the CG wouldn't be averse to reminding them
of their obligations.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Denny" wrote in message
oups.com...
Having sailed the Great Lakes for some 60 years I have had ample
experience with the solid stream of freighters... They don't turn,
period... Usually there is not even anyone visible in the bridge
windows...
I long ago developed the attitude that I will immediately turn away as
soon as I see a converging track developing... I am not burning
hundreds of dollars an hour of fuel... I can turn on a dime... I like
tacking... I am sailing for pleasure... Being ground up underneath a
400 foot cement hauler is not my idea of pleasure...
And, likely the person on the bridge (if any) does not speak english
and doesn't particularily like 'rich', 'ugly americans'... Just a fact
of life for a yachtsman... Just because you think the Colregs say you
don't have to turn, doesn't mean you shouldn't...
If I were pulling a fish net or dredging, I would ignore the big guy
and let him make the quivering explanations in the Admiralty Court as
to why he ran someone down... I'm not, so I give way...

denny

"Jack Dale" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 2 Jul 2006 00:23:11 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:



On the first and last one cited, I agree. On the traffic separation zone,
I
don't think it would make a difference. Just because someone is using the
correct lane for their course, doesn't give them license to ignore the
other
rules.


That could depend on the application of Rule 10 (j)

(j) A vessel of less than 20 meters in length or a sailing vessel
shall not impede the safe passage of a power driven vessel following a
traffic lane.

This would not apply as Roger's chart does not show a TSZ.

Jack

_________________________________________
Jack Dale
ISPA Yachtmaster Offshore Instructor
CYA Advanced Cruising Instructor
http://www.swiftsuresailing.com
_________________________________________

Interesting... There doesn't appear to be any language about size of vessel
using the separation zone. I can just imagine a skiff claiming rights. :-)

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jack Dale" wrote

I can only think of three possibilities:

1) the ferry was using rule 9 of colregs.

Here is the chart with the ferry (excursion boat would be a more
accurate description in this case although it is operated by a ferry
line) shown in red and our course in black. I just read rule 9 and I
would be curious if anyone would think that it applies to a 6 foot
draft vessel near high tide in this case.

http://home.maine.rr.com/rlma/Encounter.jpg


2) a traffic seprartion zone is in effect (a chart would show that)

Not applicable.

3) harbour regulations (would need to see them)

We were outside the harbor.

--

Roger Long

"Roger Long" wrote in message news:

Here is the chart with the ferry (excursion boat would be a more
accurate description in this case although it is operated by a ferry
line) shown in red and our course in black. I just read rule 9 and I
would be curious if anyone would think that it applies to a 6 foot
draft vessel near high tide in this case.

http://home.maine.rr.com/rlma/Encounter.jpg


Roger,

From your chart, he/she was definitely following a marked channel. However,
with that draft they were in no way restricted to the channel.
1. Some boaters and especially ferry operators following a normal route,
tend to be "anal" about staying in the channel or along their prescribed
route.

2. Looking at your arrows for your and the other vessels headings, I can see
a possible view that could lead to a misread of your intentions from the
ferry's view..... i.e. that you would soon come left to continue down the
channel.

3. Once again, there are so many possibilities for their
action...............

otn

I wish my point could point well enough to have come left. I'd win
every race I entered!

The easiest action for the ferry to have taken would have been a
slight diversion to the middle of the channel. There was not other
traffic that would have been a factor.

She may have assumed that I would tack to stay in the channel so as to
keep at least 20' of water under my keel

--

Roger Long

Without knowing all the particulars (i.e., being there) it's hard to tell
who did what to whom.
At any rate, my guess is that it was just one of those circumstances we may
all run into that's mainly kept in the memory banks for future possible
incidents, where we can now think of another possibility of what may happen.



"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
I wish my point could point well enough to have come left. I'd win every
race I entered!

The easiest action for the ferry to have taken would have been a slight
diversion to the middle of the channel. There was not other traffic that
would have been a factor.

She may have assumed that I would tack to stay in the channel so as to
keep at least 20' of water under my keel

--

Roger Long

Roger Long wrote:
I wish my point could point well enough to have come left. I'd win
every race I entered!

The easiest action for the ferry to have taken would have been a
slight diversion to the middle of the channel. There was not other
traffic that would have been a factor.

She may have assumed that I would tack to stay in the channel so as to
keep at least 20' of water under my keel

Roger,
It looks to me that the ferry was burdened. I would have sounded 5
short blasts and called the ferry on the radio and asked about the
ferry's intentions as soon as I realized that the ferry was not going to
mnvre in accordance with the rules. Time permitting of course.

Gary

On Sun, 02 Jul 2006 12:36:09 GMT, "Roger Long"
wrote:


Here is the chart with the ferry (excursion boat would be a more
accurate description in this case although it is operated by a ferry
line) shown in red and our course in black. I just read rule 9 and I
would be curious if anyone would think that it applies to a 6 foot
draft vessel near high tide in this case.

http://home.maine.rr.com/rlma/Encounter.jpg


If she thought you were motorsailing she would have been the stand-on
vessel.
Only explanation that fits the facts. Hard to judge her emotional
state. )
Mark E. Williams