"Rosalie B." wrote in message
...
In the case of both ferries, we were not sailing, we were under power.
But in all three cases they were overtaking.

Sure thing. Doesn't make much difference, since it was an overtaking
situation.

In any case, for large commercial vessels of any kind, we get out of
their way (if at all possible) before it comes up to following or not
following the rules. If necessary, Bob will circle the boat -
especially if the ship in question is a tug and tow.

A good practice if it's practicable. And, of course, there is the issue
about restricted maneuverability, which one keep in mind. This comes up all
the time for cargo, tanker, tug, etc. situations out here.

We did have a close call once when crossing the Savannah River (motor
sailing). The ICW cuts across while large ships are going up and down
the river. (The same situation applies for the river in Jacksonville
FL, but the sight lines are better.)

There was a German warship coming in the river, and we could hear the
very southern pilot on the radio warning sailboats in the ICW. I saw
the superstructure of the ship (mostly the mast part) through the
trees, but did not immediately recognize it as a ship - I thought it
was just some funny kind of tree. There was another sailboat ahead of
us, and I thought the pilot was talking to them. He could only see
our mast, so he couldn't tell that the boat ahead of us was a
catamaran. [When I called Bob's attention to the funny 'tree', he did
recognize it as a ship.]

But when we came out into the river, we saw the warship a very short
distance away, and consequently we put on the power to get out of his
way and onto the other side of the channel.

Rosalie B. wrote in
:

There was a German warship coming in the river, and we could hear the
very southern pilot on the radio warning sailboats in the ICW. I saw
the superstructure of the ship (mostly the mast part) through the
trees, but did not immediately recognize it as a ship - I thought it
was just some funny kind of tree. There was another sailboat ahead of
us, and I thought the pilot was talking to them. He could only see
our mast, so he couldn't tell that the boat ahead of us was a
catamaran. [When I called Bob's attention to the funny 'tree', he did
recognize it as a ship.]

But when we came out into the river, we saw the warship a very short
distance away, and consequently we put on the power to get out of his
way and onto the other side of the channel.



What a fantastic example for the use of AIS if both boat and ship were so
equipped. You and he would have been plotting each other for 10 miles so
better synchronization between you would have avoided any conflict. He
would have been able to call you BY YOUR NAME AND CALL, not just "sailboat
with a mast sticking up". You would have known, not only something was
there long before you could see it but WHAT is was and WHO it was and his
speed and course for planning purposes.....

The sooner every boat is on AIS, the better for everyone.....

Roger, despite what the others have said so far, Don and Tom, there are no
special rules that I'm aware of regarding ferries. There are some for
approaching large vessels, but I can't see how they would apply to a ferry
that can have twice or three times your speed on open water. If there are,
I'd love to see a link.

I looked on the Washington State ferry system web site but couldn't find
anything. I've emailed them to ask about it, and I'll post their response
when I hear from them.

Tom Dacon

"Tom Dacon" wrote in message
...

Roger, despite what the others have said so far, Don and Tom, there are
no special rules that I'm aware of regarding ferries. There are some for
approaching large vessels, but I can't see how they would apply to a
ferry that can have twice or three times your speed on open water. If
there are, I'd love to see a link.

I looked on the Washington State ferry system web site but couldn't find
anything. I've emailed them to ask about it, and I'll post their response
when I hear from them.

Tom Dacon

Tom,

I've been looking on the CG site also, but can't find anything. But, you
never know of course. I know I have to stay a bit further away from
military, cruise liners, tankers, etc. But, why the heck would I want to be
close to those...

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Here's what I got from the Washington State ferry system. It's an advisory
from the Port of Seattle. It looks like (paraphrasing the relevant
paragraph) the Coast Guard has established, for Puget Sound, security zones
around larger passenger vessels such as ferries and cruise ships. Vessels
should slow to minimum speed while within 500 yards, and mantain at least
100 yards distance unless they have obtained permission to approach. To get
permission to approach within the zone, among other things they can contact
the patrol or the master of the passenger vessel on VHF 16 or 13. Civil
penalties up to $27,500 for violations.

Here's the link:
http://www.portseattle.org/about/sec...security.shtml

When this was being publicized, I imagined that it was nation-wide, but all
I know about for sure today is Puget Sound. No doubt the Coast Guard in each
jurisdiction has made their own decisions about doing something like this if
they felt it was warranted. So this is the situation in Puget Sound anyway -
I don't what the situation might be where Roger sails.

Regards,
Tom Dacon

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Tom Dacon" wrote in message
...

Roger, despite what the others have said so far, Don and Tom, there are
no special rules that I'm aware of regarding ferries. There are some for
approaching large vessels, but I can't see how they would apply to a
ferry that can have twice or three times your speed on open water. If
there are, I'd love to see a link.

I looked on the Washington State ferry system web site but couldn't find
anything. I've emailed them to ask about it, and I'll post their response
when I hear from them.

Tom Dacon

Tom,

I've been looking on the CG site also, but can't find anything. But, you
never know of course. I know I have to stay a bit further away from
military, cruise liners, tankers, etc. But, why the heck would I want to
be close to those...

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Tom Dacon" wrote

(snip) Vessels should slow to minimum speed while within 500 yards,
and maintain at least 100 yards distance unless they have obtained
permission to approach.

I don't what the situation might be where Roger sails.

Well, we don't have anything similar that I'm aware of. With a 1000
yard wide harbor, it would be chaos it we did. There usually is a
boat with a blinking blue light just off the stern of any cruise ships
that are in town (room for one only) but I've never seen them chase
anyone.

There was a lot of amusement a year or so ago when the USCG was
escorting the ferries back and forth. I don't know whether it was the
laughter or the fuel bills that ended that foolishness.

--

Roger Long

"Roger Long" wrote in news:MGDpg.58359$3B.6612
@twister.nyroc.rr.com:

I started looking for a head
in the pilot house and couldn't see any faces so I finally luffed up


Too bad your digital camera wasn't just sitting there to take a good
closeup picture of that empty bridge for the CG boys to consider.....

On Sat, 01 Jul 2006 23:37:16 GMT, "Roger Long"
wrote:

Say, did the right of way rules for commercial passenger vessels
change when they became official terrorist targets under the
protection of homeland security?

The ferry crews in this part of the world have always seemed very
competent and courteous to me and I’ve had a number of professional
dealings with them. We were finishing up a day sail today in shifty
and increasing winds that shortly after turned into a squall. There is
a large anchorage that has a pair of red and greens in it that used to
guide the largest vessels up to a long abandoned navy oil depot. It
isn’t a channel in the normal sense but marks the deepest area in the
center.

We were close hauled and I was alone on deck with everyone below
cleaning and straightening up. One of the little 65 foot ferries was
proceeding down the bay through the buoys as if it were a channel. The
ferry was going slowly, we were converging, the bearing didn’t change.
There was plenty of room for a minor correction that would take them
astern and I really didn’t want to tack. I started looking for a head
in the pilot house and couldn’t see any faces so I finally luffed up
which took some finessing in the shifty conditions as we slowed down
and began to lose rudder authority.

The ferry passed about 50 feet in front of us and a lady who looked a
lot like she might be the captain stuck her head out and studied us
intently without waving as if she was trying to read the numbers on
the bow.

As I sailed on over the next half mile of 20 + foot deep and
unobstructed water, I found myself wondering if she could really think
that the rule about vessels in a channel and constrained by their
draft really applied to her.

No question that we would have hit if I hadn’t luffed or taken some
more dramatic action. She proceeded like she was on autopilot. Just
coming up to normal speed or a 10 degree course change early on would
have avoided any possibility of contact. This was quite out of
character for the outfit. I wonder what she was thinking?

I can only think of three possibilities:

1) the ferry was using rule 9 of colregs.

2) a traffic seprartion zone is in effect (a chart would show that)

3) harbour regulations (would need to see them)

Jack

_________________________________________
Jack Dale
ISPA Yachtmaster Offshore Instructor
CYA Advanced Cruising Instructor
http://www.swiftsuresailing.com
_________________________________________

"Jack Dale" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 01 Jul 2006 23:37:16 GMT, "Roger Long"
wrote:

Say, did the right of way rules for commercial passenger vessels
change when they became official terrorist targets under the
protection of homeland security?

The ferry crews in this part of the world have always seemed very
competent and courteous to me and I've had a number of professional
dealings with them. We were finishing up a day sail today in shifty
and increasing winds that shortly after turned into a squall. There is
a large anchorage that has a pair of red and greens in it that used to
guide the largest vessels up to a long abandoned navy oil depot. It
isn't a channel in the normal sense but marks the deepest area in the
center.

We were close hauled and I was alone on deck with everyone below
cleaning and straightening up. One of the little 65 foot ferries was
proceeding down the bay through the buoys as if it were a channel. The
ferry was going slowly, we were converging, the bearing didn't change.
There was plenty of room for a minor correction that would take them
astern and I really didn't want to tack. I started looking for a head
in the pilot house and couldn't see any faces so I finally luffed up
which took some finessing in the shifty conditions as we slowed down
and began to lose rudder authority.

The ferry passed about 50 feet in front of us and a lady who looked a
lot like she might be the captain stuck her head out and studied us
intently without waving as if she was trying to read the numbers on
the bow.

As I sailed on over the next half mile of 20 + foot deep and
unobstructed water, I found myself wondering if she could really think
that the rule about vessels in a channel and constrained by their
draft really applied to her.

No question that we would have hit if I hadn't luffed or taken some
more dramatic action. She proceeded like she was on autopilot. Just
coming up to normal speed or a 10 degree course change early on would
have avoided any possibility of contact. This was quite out of
character for the outfit. I wonder what she was thinking?

I can only think of three possibilities:

1) the ferry was using rule 9 of colregs.

2) a traffic seprartion zone is in effect (a chart would show that)

3) harbour regulations (would need to see them)

On the first and last one cited, I agree. On the traffic separation zone, I
don't think it would make a difference. Just because someone is using the
correct lane for their course, doesn't give them license to ignore the other
rules.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

On Sun, 2 Jul 2006 00:23:11 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:



On the first and last one cited, I agree. On the traffic separation zone, I
don't think it would make a difference. Just because someone is using the
correct lane for their course, doesn't give them license to ignore the other
rules.


That could depend on the application of Rule 10 (j)

(j) A vessel of less than 20 meters in length or a sailing vessel
shall not impede the safe passage of a power driven vessel following a
traffic lane.

This would not apply as Roger's chart does not show a TSZ.

Jack

_________________________________________
Jack Dale
ISPA Yachtmaster Offshore Instructor
CYA Advanced Cruising Instructor
http://www.swiftsuresailing.com
_________________________________________