Courtney Thomas wrote:
Thanks for your reply.
Who can resurface the knurling on winches and any idea what it costs ?


I had a set re-surfaced for free at the high school machine
shop, but that was years ago. I bet just about any shop
could do it, and it should cost one heck of a lot less than
new winches.

If you wanted to get fancy, you could have them replated
first. I happen to like "deck jewelry" but admit it's due to
my non-utilitarian aesthetic tastes.

Some good answers here. I like the trick about
cross-sheeting with two winches to sweat the genny in...
used to do that years ago, it works for spinnaker guys too.
When using your hand on the wraps to control the sheet while
easing, be careful nothing gets pulled into the winch. I've
caught thumb several times doing this ... most people would
probably learn after it happens once, but it's very painful,
can break bones or even sever body parts.... not recommended.

A lot times, when sailing short-handed, the skipper can
handle casting off the genny sheet. The crew should still
strip it out for him so as to minimize the chances of it
getting caught or stepped on.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Courteney, I am opposed to jib furlers on principle, you would be too
if you had one that broke the top swivel and jammed just as you were
trying to tack off a lee shore.

I had to lower the headstay and all the mess hanging off of it, after
getting the motor going to head away from the rocks. I spent half an
hour wrestling the mess aboard. I fixed it, replaced the head
bearings, staked the nut securing it, rehoisted it the next week but
never trusted it and then vandals burned the boat next spring.

I will never feel comfortable with roller furling again, especially
since it seems to me it does not help with performance, only making it
too easy to drag too much baggy jib around, sheeted outside the
shrouds.

A smaller jib, trimmed flat and sheeted inside the shrouds will almost
always go to windward better than a too big baggy one outside. If it is
small enough to be self tending, it means that going to weather in a
narrow river channel where I do most of my sailing, is way easy. The
lack of delay in getting the jib set perfectly means I get to weather
much faster and easier, with no chance of blowing the tack and having
to head off to accellerate back to speed. A smooth and gradual hand on
the tiller will conserve energy in the tack much better than quickly
horsing the tiller hard over, and is easier to concentrate on if not
puzzling over a recalcitrant genoa at the same time. Besides which, a
big baggy jib acts as an air brake going to windward.

You have seen enough advice here about handing the barrel of the winch
with the sheet still on it, you have seen suggestions that you ready
the lazy sheet with 2 or 3 wraps before tacking, and you have seen the
advice to pull the sheet straight up to release it as soon as the luff
goes soft, all of which I have practiced for many years, until I made
my self tending jib rig. You will still need to haul mucho sheets to
get it set, and hopefully, the clew knot will not snag a shroud, as
mine most always seemed to do when tacking a genny.

I suggested that if you have two winches, you might not even need a
winch handle, using the hip between two winches trick. I call it the
hippy hippy shake tack.

It is my feeling that a genny is seldom of any beneficial use when
going to windward, as a smaller flat, inboard jib will do better, and
is more easily managed.

Going to windward, the apparrent wind is higher than the true wind, so
if there is 10 knots or better true, a small jib will balance the helm
much better and point higher than a too large one.

Terry K

I use a smaller jib sheeted inboard when going to windward. It makes
sheeting a doddle.

Terry K

Dave wrote:
On 5 Jun 2006 13:09:41 -0700, "Terry K" said:

I am opposed to jib furlers on principle

I tried to say this politely before, but it seems you didn't get the
message.

This thread is not about self-tending jibs. Feel free to preach our own
gospel and sing from your own hymnal, but please change the name of the hymn
when you do so.

You should practice what you preach. You just changed this thread
from a discussion of headsail tending to touting your anal views on
netiquette. Why didn't you "change the name of the hymn"?

Frankly I agree that its rather boring to always brag about having a
self tending jib when a question of sheet tending is raised. For
instance, I could have said that I never had this problem on my
Nonsuch, but I would never stoop that low.

No fair!

The Nonsuch has a self tending everything, and uses no Genoa.

As the question of relieving jibsheet pressure on winches, and more
particularly on the winchers, winchees, and crew generally seems
related to managing stress while cruising with a genoa under heavy
pressure, possibly with a winch knot, (which was not mentioned by any
geniuses out there, the answer in extremis being "a knife",) was most
correctly addressed by finding a way to eliminate the problem, not
using sheet winches, nor overloading them, nor needing a fat genoa to
be rescued in the first place, nor needing to affect jib trim in any
way while tacking, was germane.

More discussion with this original poster has been removed from this
despicable gaggle of supposed lazy hairy bags, so as not to offend the
easily offended. We need offer no defense.

Apologies would be noticed.

You have nothing to lose except a bad attitude.

I am sorry if the attributions seem to swing an insult into the wrong
face. Please consider, I am not going to analyze or remember who
brought this about, but instead simply reply as the last nameless,
shocking message I hope to see in this arena.

What follows is probably more than a four line .sig; depends on how
wide your monitors add up to. D'ough!

Terry K

-Gadget vendors unite! Advertise the useless at higher prices than the
merely practical. Loudly call bugs "Features!" and wait for the public
to beat down the grass in your front yard, asking for refunds. Most
won't. For instance, a traveller cannot automatically increase twist in
a gust, as can a bridle, yet those who have paid for travellers must
defend them as themselves.

A genoa cannot stand much gust without being replaced. Furlers save
genoas, but make reasonably sized sails unsafely inconvenient. A
reefy-furled genoa is useless in a blow, even dangerous for a cruiser.
Besides, genoas cost too much, so furlers seem cheap to some. "There is
nothing half so much fun..."

There are more dollars than sense, and more advertising than useful,
inexpensive products, which need no advertising. Good ideas need no
advertising, just ask.

Advertising is an expensive gadget. The wind is not free, but to enjoy
it you must pay by understanding something, by hearing what has not
been said. (Copyright reserved SofDevCo, TM. Under present law, this
probably makes you all criminals, somewhere.)

Now, who was arguing about top posting?
-T Do I need to resequence, or should I just add
P.S?
And now, for some more defaced grafitti: -suck you.

@-Toothy

Hi,
I am new to Groups and have thought that this .cruising forum (and
..boats) seem strangely much more quarrelsome and filled with
offend-defend-offend-defends than any I have visited. That is rather
disappointing as I thought there was a shared positive and kindly
kindred spirit among boaters/sailors. Hopefully it is just jovial
bickering like among siblings? Just humour? Please tell me it is so.

I would like people with wisdom and experience to continue to share it
around, as lots of us newer are all ears and can sort out at least to a
certain extent which piece of advice to listen to or which is relevant
if not immediately then for later or other circumstances. Of course
some off-topics or 'seemingly' off-topics or some manners of wording
may irritate some people (incl me occasionally) but let's please
accept/tolerate/forgive/appreciate different ways people contribute and
accept that words cannot adequately represent our well-intentioned
communication. Something may sound off topic when it is in fact
relevant and appreciated, something may sound like bragging when it is
not. There's a lot of wisdom on this forum and lets allow more sharing.
And let's remember that everyone sacrifices valuable time to
'contribute', and for that I'm very grateful. Please do not discourage
contributions with insults or superiority.

If I have failed to adequately make myself understood I'd like to
rephrase that contributors please continue to contribute, freely in
whatever way you judge appropriate. I have learned much. Thank you.

Solo Thesailor
http://sailingstoriesandtips.blogspot.com Any comments, feedback and
contribution to the website is most welcome and appreciated.

On 20 Jun 2006 07:51:07 -0700, "Solo Thesailor"
wrote:

Hi,
I am new to Groups and have thought that this .cruising forum (and
.boats) seem strangely much more quarrelsome and filled with
offend-defend-offend-defends than any I have visited. That is rather
disappointing as I thought there was a shared positive and kindly
kindred spirit among boaters/sailors. Hopefully it is just jovial
bickering like among siblings? Just humour? Please tell me it is so.

I would like people with wisdom and experience to continue to share it
around, as lots of us newer are all ears and can sort out at least to a
certain extent which piece of advice to listen to or which is relevant
if not immediately then for later or other circumstances. Of course
some off-topics or 'seemingly' off-topics or some manners of wording
may irritate some people (incl me occasionally) but let's please
accept/tolerate/forgive/appreciate different ways people contribute and
accept that words cannot adequately represent our well-intentioned
communication. Something may sound off topic when it is in fact
relevant and appreciated, something may sound like bragging when it is
not. There's a lot of wisdom on this forum and lets allow more sharing.
And let's remember that everyone sacrifices valuable time to
'contribute', and for that I'm very grateful. Please do not discourage
contributions with insults or superiority.

If I have failed to adequately make myself understood I'd like to
rephrase that contributors please continue to contribute, freely in
whatever way you judge appropriate. I have learned much. Thank you.

Solo Thesailor
http://sailingstoriesandtips.blogspot.com Any comments, feedback and
contribution to the website is most welcome and appreciated.

I expect you will soon conclude that lecturing newgroup particpants on
how they should behave is in general fruitless - indeed attracts
epithets like "net nanny" and worse.

Moreover, sad to tell, this NG is rather mild: for real mean
minded nastiness try, ... oh there are several - rec.equestrian
comes to mind for one. (I received posts hoping for my death, for
example)

If you are still sensitive to invective, the sci. newsgroups are the
inheritors of the original philosophy to some extent: "praise in
public, criticise in private" etc. The rec.NGs are much more rowdy.

Sincerely


Brian Whatcott Altus OK

On Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:53:24 GMT, Brian Whatcott
wrote:


I expect you will soon conclude that lecturing newgroup particpants on
how they should behave is in general fruitless - indeed attracts
epithets like "net nanny" and worse.

With no intent to insult the original poster, according to Mike Reed's
excellent Flame Warrior's Guide, the proper category would probably be
"Bliss Ninny":

http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/war...blissninny.htm

or perhaps, "Diplomat":

http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/war...m/diplomat.htm

With time, he might earn the reputation of "Eagle Scout":

http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/war...eaglescout.htm

And to the original poster: Don't take offence; just about everyone
fits one or more of the charicatures in the guide at some point.




__________________________________________________ __________
Glen "Wiley" Wilson usenet1 SPAMNIX at world wide wiley dot com
To reply, lose the capitals and do the obvious.

Take a look at cpRepeater, my NMEA data integrator, repeater, and
logger at http://www.worldwidewiley.com/

Solo Thesailor wrote:
Hi,
I am new to Groups and have thought that this .cruising forum (and
.boats) seem strangely much more quarrelsome and filled with
offend-defend-offend-defends than any I have visited. That is rather
disappointing as I thought there was a shared positive and kindly
kindred spirit among boaters/sailors. Hopefully it is just jovial
bickering like among siblings? Just humour? Please tell me it is so.

snip

If I have failed to adequately make myself understood I'd like to
rephrase that contributors please continue to contribute, freely in
whatever way you judge appropriate. I have learned much. Thank you.

Solo Thesailor

Let us hope that at least some "contributors" can enjoy a small tussle
in a light hearted spirit. Let us hope that a few escape their boxes.

If there are those whom bitterness compels to retaliate against
imagined offences, let them vent. They can easily be ignored or even
enjoyed as contrast to the friendliness in which the opiner opines,
unless (woe!) there is little else in their bitter lives but rancor.

Opinions are only valuable, can only be appreciated, if they are
varied. How can sweet be tasted, if not accompanied sometimes by a
little sour? If all accepted "The one true way," there would be no
individuality, no need to think or experience, or even to live at all.


Tolerance is a price some are glad to pay, joyous to not be ranked
with mindless ants, slaves to one perfect rule. They are distinct
jewels in a crown, somewhere.

Fair winds and a good boat to you, joy enough for a cruiser without
destination and without haste. Here's hoping we can enjoy improving our
boats and our sailing with the help of friends.

Terry K

Hi Courtney,
One time we got into a 35 knots gusting to 55 in choppy and very cold
seas travelling up from Hobart, Tasmania to Melbourne (Australia),
tacking uncountable times to try to reach shelter (by moonlight
-magic). There were no issues with tacking and winches as such, or they
were dominated by other manoeuvres like reefings and navigating and
staying on board. However, in relatively inexperienced hands or during
lapses of lost concentration or bad gear, problems can easily arise in
terms of not changing down to smaller sails earlier enough, sails are
still too large, knots not secured, helm over too fast, sheet not
flaked properly before throwing off winch, fingers caught in winch,
winch handle flying into face or vice versa, sheeting in too slowly,
colliding with the helmsperson, not being instantly ready when needing
to tack as emergency, and someone going forward getting whipped by the
sheet or sail or getting caught by a sheet or getting pitched into the
sea..

After all that things could still go wrong eg over-ride on winch, sheet
or tackle blown, car/block blown or seized, sail tearing, halyard or
tack blown, and sheethand being violently seasick.

Ways to fix, or avoid, these problems can be further explained if
required. I suspect most people are familiar with these so I'll just
say 3 things: 1) be preventative and ahead of the game, incl gear
maintenance and tying a bowline "very securely" and fast, 2) wear
safety gear and clip tether on a strong point or safety line (not rail)
"very properly" eg not in the way of the sheets and
3) if you get an override on the winch or get any sheet caught somehow
on a serious load, and where it's not an emergency situation of cutting
the sheet, you need to relieve the load in one of two ways:
a)
get another line and tie a rolling hitch on the sheet under tension,
take that line to another winch to take up the load, fix the override
or whatever the problem was, tension again on the first winch, release
the 2nd winch and the rolling hitch. See a secure rolling hitch (more
about this great hitch another time) on an excellent site
http://www.animatedknots.com Opinions vary as to how to tie this knot;
after much investigation I use the one on this site, it is a very easy
and fast secure-knot to tie in a hurry. My key for this knot is 'like
clove hitch but repeat cross over twice first then finish like a clove
hitch, load on the two-turns side'.
b)
in serious winds strong arms cannot take the load, if you can't do a)
then take a line (must always have a spare sheet ready) to tie to the
clew and take the load off on another winch.
OK hope this helps, please let us know.
PS Thanks all for the street-wise and kind comments above re net
manners. Weathered skin is leathered skin is thick skinned I s'pose....
we march on
Solo Thesailor
http://sailingstoriesandtips.blogspot.com