For sheets unders 'serious' pressure, what techique(s) best facilitate
tacking ?

Please address the process using plain/older winches, as well as the latest.

Thank you,
Courtney

Courtney Thomas wrote:
For sheets unders 'serious' pressure, what techique(s) best facilitate
tacking ?

Please address the process using plain/older winches, as well as the
latest.


???

Not sure what you mean here. Why does tacking need to be
"facilitated"? There is a bit of skill in the timing of a
tack (this is where a good skipper can help the crew by
telling them specifically when to unwrap the old sheet,
strip it, etc etc). The crew should be able to at least
watch the jib clew's progress and know when to haul on the
new sheet & when to crank (and when to dart forward & free it).

If you are talking about talking a big genoa with old
rattley winches with the knurling worn off, don't. Get them
rebuilt & resurfaced, at a minimum.

The process for tacking expeditiously is the same with
self-tailers and non-self-tailers. The crew stripping the
old sheet needs to take a little more care with
self-tailers, is all.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

DSK wrote:
Courtney Thomas wrote:

For sheets unders 'serious' pressure, what techique(s) best facilitate
tacking ?

Please address the process using plain/older winches, as well as the
latest.


???

Not sure what you mean here. Why does tacking need to be "facilitated"?
There is a bit of skill in the timing of a tack (this is where a good
skipper can help the crew by telling them specifically when to unwrap
the old sheet, strip it, etc etc). The crew should be able to at least
watch the jib clew's progress and know when to haul on the new sheet &
when to crank (and when to dart forward & free it).

If you are talking about talking a big genoa with old rattley winches
with the knurling worn off, don't. Get them rebuilt & resurfaced, at a
minimum.

The process for tacking expeditiously is the same with self-tailers and
non-self-tailers. The crew stripping the old sheet needs to take a
little more care with self-tailers, is all.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Doug,

Thanks for your reply.
Who can resurface the knurling on winches and any idea what it costs ?

Cordially,
Courtney

Courtney Thomas wrote:
Thanks for your reply.
Who can resurface the knurling on winches and any idea what it costs ?


I had a set re-surfaced for free at the high school machine
shop, but that was years ago. I bet just about any shop
could do it, and it should cost one heck of a lot less than
new winches.

If you wanted to get fancy, you could have them replated
first. I happen to like "deck jewelry" but admit it's due to
my non-utilitarian aesthetic tastes.

Some good answers here. I like the trick about
cross-sheeting with two winches to sweat the genny in...
used to do that years ago, it works for spinnaker guys too.
When using your hand on the wraps to control the sheet while
easing, be careful nothing gets pulled into the winch. I've
caught thumb several times doing this ... most people would
probably learn after it happens once, but it's very painful,
can break bones or even sever body parts.... not recommended.

A lot times, when sailing short-handed, the skipper can
handle casting off the genny sheet. The crew should still
strip it out for him so as to minimize the chances of it
getting caught or stepped on.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Courtney Thomas wrote:
For sheets unders 'serious' pressure, what techique(s) best facilitate
tacking ?

Please address the process using plain/older winches, as well as the
latest.

Thank you,
Courtney

The sheets are not under "serious pressure" when the genny starts to
backwind, which is when you strip the old sheet off the winch. Is there some
"technique" to this, apart from speed?

Well, as the helm goes over, I just watch as the self tending jib tacks
itself.

I know it sounds difficult, but I do nothing whatsoever as it tacks in
about 2 seconds, all by itself.

There is nothing to do unless I want to disengage the automatic, in
which case, I just let go the boom lifter, or as I call it the
"elevator" line, or third jib sheet. The jib boom falls to the deck,
and the usual sheets are employed in the usual manner, in which case,
as soon as the jib goes floppy, I release the working sheet and take in
the lazy sheet.

I seldom need to use the winch handles, as I simply wrap the sheet
around the working winch, and then lead the sheet across the cockpit
and around the lazy winch. By tailing the double winched line while
alternatively pushing with my hip on the part crossing the cockpit, I
can "skootch" the jib in as hard as it needs, using only one hand to
tail it.

The best learning method is to just go do it wrong until you get it
right. It's called experience.

Terry K

Courtney,

You surge the winch by keeping your hand on the drum over the sheet and ease
with your other hand. With 4 or 5 wraps on a loaded winch your hand that is
on the winch acts like a friction brake. I like to watch the luff break
when tacking and ease the sheet into the break. Then spin the sheet off the
winch by pulling straight up when the jib comes on the cap shrouds. Make
sure the sheet is ready to run prior to tacking. The process is the same
with self tailing winches but it is tougher to get sheet up off the winch.

Good luck,

Bryan


"Terry K" wrote in message
ups.com...
Well, as the helm goes over, I just watch as the self tending jib tacks
itself.

I know it sounds difficult, but I do nothing whatsoever as it tacks in
about 2 seconds, all by itself.

There is nothing to do unless I want to disengage the automatic, in
which case, I just let go the boom lifter, or as I call it the
"elevator" line, or third jib sheet. The jib boom falls to the deck,
and the usual sheets are employed in the usual manner, in which case,
as soon as the jib goes floppy, I release the working sheet and take in
the lazy sheet.

I seldom need to use the winch handles, as I simply wrap the sheet
around the working winch, and then lead the sheet across the cockpit
and around the lazy winch. By tailing the double winched line while
alternatively pushing with my hip on the part crossing the cockpit, I
can "skootch" the jib in as hard as it needs, using only one hand to
tail it.

The best learning method is to just go do it wrong until you get it
right. It's called experience.

Terry K

Bryan wrote:
Courtney,

You surge the winch by keeping your hand on the drum over the sheet and ease
with your other hand. With 4 or 5 wraps on a loaded winch your hand that is
on the winch acts like a friction brake. I like to watch the luff break
when tacking and ease the sheet into the break. Then spin the sheet off the
winch by pulling straight up when the jib comes on the cap shrouds. Make
sure the sheet is ready to run prior to tacking. The process is the same
with self tailing winches but it is tougher to get sheet up off the winch.

Good luck,

Bryan


"Terry K" wrote in message
ups.com...

Well, as the helm goes over, I just watch as the self tending jib tacks
itself.

I know it sounds difficult, but I do nothing whatsoever as it tacks in
about 2 seconds, all by itself.

There is nothing to do unless I want to disengage the automatic, in
which case, I just let go the boom lifter, or as I call it the
"elevator" line, or third jib sheet. The jib boom falls to the deck,
and the usual sheets are employed in the usual manner, in which case,
as soon as the jib goes floppy, I release the working sheet and take in
the lazy sheet.

I seldom need to use the winch handles, as I simply wrap the sheet
around the working winch, and then lead the sheet across the cockpit
and around the lazy winch. By tailing the double winched line while
alternatively pushing with my hip on the part crossing the cockpit, I
can "skootch" the jib in as hard as it needs, using only one hand to
tail it.

The best learning method is to just go do it wrong until you get it
right. It's called experience.

Terry K




Thanks Bryan.

That's what I've been doing but haven't gotten caught out yet in a
howler with serious loading that I couldn't handle and was curious if
anyone had any other technique for more dire circumstances.

Courtney

Terry K wrote:
Well, as the helm goes over, I just watch as the self tending jib tacks
itself.

I know it sounds difficult, but I do nothing whatsoever as it tacks in
about 2 seconds, all by itself.

There is nothing to do unless I want to disengage the automatic, in
which case, I just let go the boom lifter, or as I call it the
"elevator" line, or third jib sheet. The jib boom falls to the deck,
and the usual sheets are employed in the usual manner, in which case,
as soon as the jib goes floppy, I release the working sheet and take in
the lazy sheet.

I seldom need to use the winch handles, as I simply wrap the sheet
around the working winch, and then lead the sheet across the cockpit
and around the lazy winch. By tailing the double winched line while
alternatively pushing with my hip on the part crossing the cockpit, I
can "skootch" the jib in as hard as it needs, using only one hand to
tail it.

The best learning method is to just go do it wrong until you get it
right. It's called experience.

Terry K

Thanks Terry.

Are there any deficiencies for your self-tender vis-a-vis a Harken
furler as I have ?

Courtney

Courteney, I am opposed to jib furlers on principle, you would be too
if you had one that broke the top swivel and jammed just as you were
trying to tack off a lee shore.

I had to lower the headstay and all the mess hanging off of it, after
getting the motor going to head away from the rocks. I spent half an
hour wrestling the mess aboard. I fixed it, replaced the head
bearings, staked the nut securing it, rehoisted it the next week but
never trusted it and then vandals burned the boat next spring.

I will never feel comfortable with roller furling again, especially
since it seems to me it does not help with performance, only making it
too easy to drag too much baggy jib around, sheeted outside the
shrouds.

A smaller jib, trimmed flat and sheeted inside the shrouds will almost
always go to windward better than a too big baggy one outside. If it is
small enough to be self tending, it means that going to weather in a
narrow river channel where I do most of my sailing, is way easy. The
lack of delay in getting the jib set perfectly means I get to weather
much faster and easier, with no chance of blowing the tack and having
to head off to accellerate back to speed. A smooth and gradual hand on
the tiller will conserve energy in the tack much better than quickly
horsing the tiller hard over, and is easier to concentrate on if not
puzzling over a recalcitrant genoa at the same time. Besides which, a
big baggy jib acts as an air brake going to windward.

You have seen enough advice here about handing the barrel of the winch
with the sheet still on it, you have seen suggestions that you ready
the lazy sheet with 2 or 3 wraps before tacking, and you have seen the
advice to pull the sheet straight up to release it as soon as the luff
goes soft, all of which I have practiced for many years, until I made
my self tending jib rig. You will still need to haul mucho sheets to
get it set, and hopefully, the clew knot will not snag a shroud, as
mine most always seemed to do when tacking a genny.

I suggested that if you have two winches, you might not even need a
winch handle, using the hip between two winches trick. I call it the
hippy hippy shake tack.

It is my feeling that a genny is seldom of any beneficial use when
going to windward, as a smaller flat, inboard jib will do better, and
is more easily managed.

Going to windward, the apparrent wind is higher than the true wind, so
if there is 10 knots or better true, a small jib will balance the helm
much better and point higher than a too large one.

Terry K