Help with head - Peggy???
 

When you need her, you need her. Peggy to the rescue - I hope.

We have a Raritan PHE II head that has worked fine since owning this
boat - almost 2 years.

First sign of trouble was that the head would not evacuate in the 'dry'
position, but we found if we switched to 'flush' for a couple of
strokes, and then back to 'dry' that that would make it start working
correctly again. This happened more and more frequently.

Now, I'm not getting evacuation at all in the 'dry' postition, but it
does still seem to evacuate in the 'flush' postition, but that doesn't
do me any good because it is also filling the bowl at the same time,
and I can't get the bowl empty.

I've used my inflatable pump to force air down the vent from the
outside trying to be sure it's unclogged. Can't really tell if it is
that way - next step will be removing the vent hose from the tank and
pumping air to the outside - that should give the answer.

Do those symptoms give me any clues where to start? I really don't
have time for this now, but obviously it must be solved (we live
aboard) - Magic wand?

Thanks,

Mike.

Help with head - Peggy???
 

While we are waiting for Peggie to respond to the alarm I have a
suggestion. Get a rebuild kit for your head, get out your tools, and
start taking it apart. These are very simple and straightforward
devices. If taking one apart and putting it back together is beyond
your mechanical skills, you are going to have a lot more significant
problems living on a boat.

Even if the head turns out to have a fatal problem such as a scored
pump cylinder, knowledge of its inner workings will greatly improve
your ability to deal with future problems. A heavily used head on a
live aboard boat probably needs a rebuild kit installed every year or
so anyway and this is quite likely to solve your problem by itself.

While it's apart, make sure the inside of the pump cylinder is smooth.
Slather the piston and the inside of the cylinder with Teflon grease.
I found it most easily at a bicycle shop. The auto stores just gave
me blank looks.

--

Roger Long

Help with head - Peggy???
 

Hi Roger,

Your right about the knowledge of the inner workings. This is our
second boat and we have done extensive and significant work on
virtually all the other systems of the boat, so the mechanical skills
won't be an issue. I must admit though, that until now, I've been
satisfied to keep the head as a "black box" and let it work until is
stopped working.

Well, the time has come. Not looking forward to it, but am looking
forward to having it behind me, and having the knowledge and experience
in the bag to deal with future maintenance.

Thanks,

Mike.

Roger Long wrote:
While we are waiting for Peggie to respond to the alarm I have a
suggestion. Get a rebuild kit for your head, get out your tools, and
start taking it apart. These are very simple and straightforward
devices. If taking one apart and putting it back together is beyond
your mechanical skills, you are going to have a lot more significant
problems living on a boat.

Even if the head turns out to have a fatal problem such as a scored
pump cylinder, knowledge of its inner workings will greatly improve
your ability to deal with future problems. A heavily used head on a
live aboard boat probably needs a rebuild kit installed every year or
so anyway and this is quite likely to solve your problem by itself.

While it's apart, make sure the inside of the pump cylinder is smooth.
Slather the piston and the inside of the cylinder with Teflon grease.
I found it most easily at a bicycle shop. The auto stores just gave
me blank looks.

--

Roger Long

Help with head - Peggy???
 

beaufortnc wrote:
We have a Raritan PHE II head that has worked fine since owning this
boat - almost 2 years.

First sign of trouble was that the head would not evacuate in the 'dry'
position, but we found if we switched to 'flush' for a couple of
strokes, and then back to 'dry' that that would make it start working
correctly again. This happened more and more frequently.

First thing I'd do is take the motor off and turn it back into a manual
toilet. The PH II is an outstanding manual toilet...putting a motor on
it--which only replaces the pump handle, it's still a manual pump--turns
it into a poor excuse for an electric toilet. 'Cuz the motor pumps the
toilet with a much shorter and faster stroke than pumping manually,
which makes the toilet much less efficient than pumping it manually.

That won't solve your problem, though...nor will rebuilding the toilet
as Roger suggested--although, if that hasn't been done in at least 5
years, it should be done anyway.

You don't say how old the toilet is, only that it's on the boat you've
only owned for two years...but unless your tank vent is blocked, I
suspect your culprit is the air valve on the toilet--especially if
you're experiencing any "backpressure" when you flush. The air valve is
the little flat nut with a hole in it on the front of the "dry/flush"
valve housing that looks like it's molded into the housing, but is
actually threaded in. Remove it...clean it...put it back (it'll prob'ly
leak a little). If that solves your problem, remove it again...wrap the
threads in Teflon tape and put it back. If it doesn't solve the problem,
order a replacement air valve from Raritan.

I've used my inflatable pump to force air down the vent from the
outside trying to be sure it's unclogged. Can't really tell if it is
that way - next step will be removing the vent hose from the tank and
pumping air to the outside - that should give the answer.

If you're referring to the tank vent, the two most common places for a
blockage are the vent thru-hull and the connection on the tank. Check
the thru-hull...scrape it out with a screwdriver blade. And don't worry
about destroying any screen in it...you're better off without it. Pull
the vent line off the tank, scrape any material out of the fitting and
the end of the hose.

If that doesn't solve your problem, let me know.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

Help with head - Peggy???
 

Peggie,

Did as you said for the air valve. Still having problem.

I can hold my finger over the hole in the air vent and feel the
suction. In fact, if I hold it there and keep pumping, it starts to
stall the pump. It seems that would mean it is working, or could it
still be bad? I see your logic in thinking that could be the culprit.
Main reason - When I flush in the "flush" position, it sounds like the
head is evacuating. I can't truly be sure though since the water level
doesn't drop due to the incoming seawater.

I've verified that the tank vent is clear.

Rebuild kit on the way. Should I still order an air valve, or does
that come with the rebuild kit?

Thanks for the help,

Mike.




Peggie Hall wrote:
beaufortnc wrote:
We have a Raritan PHE II head that has worked fine since owning this
boat - almost 2 years.

First sign of trouble was that the head would not evacuate in the 'dry'
position, but we found if we switched to 'flush' for a couple of
strokes, and then back to 'dry' that that would make it start working
correctly again. This happened more and more frequently.

First thing I'd do is take the motor off and turn it back into a manual
toilet. The PH II is an outstanding manual toilet...putting a motor on
it--which only replaces the pump handle, it's still a manual pump--turns
it into a poor excuse for an electric toilet. 'Cuz the motor pumps the
toilet with a much shorter and faster stroke than pumping manually,
which makes the toilet much less efficient than pumping it manually.

That won't solve your problem, though...nor will rebuilding the toilet
as Roger suggested--although, if that hasn't been done in at least 5
years, it should be done anyway.

You don't say how old the toilet is, only that it's on the boat you've
only owned for two years...but unless your tank vent is blocked, I
suspect your culprit is the air valve on the toilet--especially if
you're experiencing any "backpressure" when you flush. The air valve is
the little flat nut with a hole in it on the front of the "dry/flush"
valve housing that looks like it's molded into the housing, but is
actually threaded in. Remove it...clean it...put it back (it'll prob'ly
leak a little). If that solves your problem, remove it again...wrap the
threads in Teflon tape and put it back. If it doesn't solve the problem,
order a replacement air valve from Raritan.

I've used my inflatable pump to force air down the vent from the
outside trying to be sure it's unclogged. Can't really tell if it is
that way - next step will be removing the vent hose from the tank and
pumping air to the outside - that should give the answer.

If you're referring to the tank vent, the two most common places for a
blockage are the vent thru-hull and the connection on the tank. Check
the thru-hull...scrape it out with a screwdriver blade. And don't worry
about destroying any screen in it...you're better off without it. Pull
the vent line off the tank, scrape any material out of the fitting and
the end of the hose.

If that doesn't solve your problem, let me know.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

Help with head - Peggy???
 

beaufortnc wrote:

Peggie,

Did as you said for the air valve. Still having problem.

Hmmmm...that means the air valve isn't the culprit. And you've also
verified that the holding tank vent is clear.

Without being able to do any "hands on" trouble-shooting, my psychic
powers aren't working very well on this one. But there are a couple more
possibilities I can think of before you rebuild:

1. Sea water mineral buildup in the discharge hose...I've seen it reduce
a 1.5" hose to less than 1/2"...which would make flushing difficult.
Pull the discharge hose off and take a look inside...if you see a lot of
buildup, several doses of undiluted white vinegar through the hose will
dissolve it. A cupful of it flushed through the head discharge hose once
a week will prevent it.

2. The same buildup can clog up a joker valve too...so check that. If
you haven't replaced the joker valve since you moved aboard, you need to
do that...joker valves should be replaced at least every two
years...annually if you live aboard.

If mineral buildup isn't the problem, it's time to bring in the big gun:
Call Vic Willman at Raritan...800-352-5630 x 6. Don't talk to ANYONE
else. Don't order anything except a joker valve (which is in the
rebuild kit) till you've talked to him.

One more thing just occurred to me...if you have a y-valve in the
discharge line, is it possible that it's failed? That's it's only partly
open to the tank, making it hard to flush?

Let me know what you find and/or what Vic has to say?

Peggie

Peggie Hall wrote:

beaufortnc wrote:

We have a Raritan PHE II head that has worked fine since owning this
boat - almost 2 years.

First sign of trouble was that the head would not evacuate in the 'dry'
position, but we found if we switched to 'flush' for a couple of
strokes, and then back to 'dry' that that would make it start working
correctly again. This happened more and more frequently.

First thing I'd do is take the motor off and turn it back into a manual
toilet. The PH II is an outstanding manual toilet...putting a motor on
it--which only replaces the pump handle, it's still a manual pump--turns
it into a poor excuse for an electric toilet. 'Cuz the motor pumps the
toilet with a much shorter and faster stroke than pumping manually,
which makes the toilet much less efficient than pumping it manually.

That won't solve your problem, though...nor will rebuilding the toilet
as Roger suggested--although, if that hasn't been done in at least 5
years, it should be done anyway.

You don't say how old the toilet is, only that it's on the boat you've
only owned for two years...but unless your tank vent is blocked, I
suspect your culprit is the air valve on the toilet--especially if
you're experiencing any "backpressure" when you flush. The air valve is
the little flat nut with a hole in it on the front of the "dry/flush"
valve housing that looks like it's molded into the housing, but is
actually threaded in. Remove it...clean it...put it back (it'll prob'ly
leak a little). If that solves your problem, remove it again...wrap the
threads in Teflon tape and put it back. If it doesn't solve the problem,
order a replacement air valve from Raritan.


I've used my inflatable pump to force air down the vent from the
outside trying to be sure it's unclogged. Can't really tell if it is
that way - next step will be removing the vent hose from the tank and
pumping air to the outside - that should give the answer.

If you're referring to the tank vent, the two most common places for a
blockage are the vent thru-hull and the connection on the tank. Check
the thru-hull...scrape it out with a screwdriver blade. And don't worry
about destroying any screen in it...you're better off without it. Pull
the vent line off the tank, scrape any material out of the fitting and
the end of the hose.

If that doesn't solve your problem, let me know.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304



--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

Help with head - Peggy???
 

You've got a blockage in the discharge line somewhere. Try cycling your
Y-valve if you have one between the toilet and tank / discharge port.
This would be evidenced by the toilet filling up with water when you
try to flush in the wet position, and no evacuation in the dry. Is that
what's happening?

Help with head - Peggy???
 

My guess is that the rubber foot valve flapper is not seating properly,
causing the waste to move around it.

It may be blocked with a lump of something or other. A good cleaning of
the lower part of the pump may solve your problem. Taking it apart
without renewing the parts may be penny wise and pound foolish.

Terry K

Help with head - Peggy???
 

Head problem solved.

Rebuilt entire head with kit from Raritan. Found the problem.

We had been using some of those cheap toilet fresheners that hang on
the side of the bowl - basically the same thing as the cakes that are
put in men's urinals. Anyway, a piece of that cake had dissolved and
broken off like a little iceberg and worked its way through the
plumbing and was stuck in the joker valve, not letting it close
properly. So it was a two way street down there.

All is working now. Only thing is I'm not sure if we put enough grease
in the cylinder area where the piston rides up and down. We cleaned it
all out very well, etc..., but with the new gasket, the pump is
difficult to cycle, but it works. (The old cylinder gasket was worn
completely smooth, but the new one has ridges on it to help it seat)

Everything works, but we're maybe a little concerned that the
difficulty of the pumping action may stress the components too much. I
assume, however, that this is only temporary, and that the action will
eventually become easier.

Nevertheless, the head clearly needed a rebuild and cleaning, and we
are glad that it is done and that we now have that notch of experience
on our belts. One more mystery uncovered.

Thanks for all the advice.

Mike.


Terry K wrote:
My guess is that the rubber foot valve flapper is not seating properly,
causing the waste to move around it.

It may be blocked with a lump of something or other. A good cleaning of
the lower part of the pump may solve your problem. Taking it apart
without renewing the parts may be penny wise and pound foolish.

Terry K

Help with head - Peggy???
 

beaufortnc wrote:
Head problem solved.

Rebuilt entire head with kit from Raritan. Found the problem.

We had been using some of those cheap toilet fresheners that hang on
the side of the bowl - basically the same thing as the cakes that are
put in men's urinals.

Don't do that any more. Don't use ANY household or institutional
chemical bowl cleaner--or any other chemical household cleaning
products, either. They're all murderous to the rubber parts in toilets
and break down hose resistance to odor permeation.

All is working now. Only thing is I'm not sure if we put enough grease
in the cylinder area where the piston rides up and down.

If you were sparing with it, you prob'ly didn't. The whole tube in the
rebuild kit is supposed to go into the pump...not just a dab on each of
the o-rings etc. Take the pump off the base again and put the whole rest
of the tube into it...pump a few times to spread it all over the inside
of the cylinder. That's all the lubrication it should need for a year.
And you should do it again annually as preventive maintenance if you
don't want to rebuild the pump more often than every 5-6 years.


We cleaned it
all out very well, etc..., but with the new gasket, the pump is
difficult to cycle, but it works. (The old cylinder gasket was worn
completely smooth...

Possibly eaten away by the bowl "cakes."

Everything works, but we're maybe a little concerned that the
difficulty of the pumping action may stress the components too much. I
assume, however, that this is only temporary, and that the action will
eventually become easier.

It won't. Not till there's sufficient lubrication in the pump.

Putting a motor on a PH II pumps it with a much shorter and faster
stroke than slower more deliberate pumping manually. The shorter faster
stroke means it takes longer to prime...which means the rubber parts in
the pump are subjected to more dry friction, wearing 'em out MUCH faster
unless the pump is VERY well lubricated. The smartest thing you could do
is remove the motor...but you prob'ly won't. So you'd better make sure
there's plenty of thick teflon grease in the pump.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

Help with head - Peggie
 

Peggie,

I hear what your saying about the electric motor, but in reality it
doesn't seem to be true.

When we had the motor disconnected and pumped manually, then
reconnected, we carefully looked at the stroke length, and they are
almost identical whether pumping manually or with the motor. We were
all set to remove the motor and pump manually - we have no problem with
that. But, after carefully comparing the stroke lengths, it doesn't
seem to be any different. So, left the motor on.

Thanks again for all the advice.

Mike.


Peggie Hall wrote:
beaufortnc wrote:
Head problem solved.

Rebuilt entire head with kit from Raritan. Found the problem.

We had been using some of those cheap toilet fresheners that hang on
the side of the bowl - basically the same thing as the cakes that are
put in men's urinals.

Don't do that any more. Don't use ANY household or institutional
chemical bowl cleaner--or any other chemical household cleaning
products, either. They're all murderous to the rubber parts in toilets
and break down hose resistance to odor permeation.

All is working now. Only thing is I'm not sure if we put enough grease
in the cylinder area where the piston rides up and down.

If you were sparing with it, you prob'ly didn't. The whole tube in the
rebuild kit is supposed to go into the pump...not just a dab on each of
the o-rings etc. Take the pump off the base again and put the whole rest
of the tube into it...pump a few times to spread it all over the inside
of the cylinder. That's all the lubrication it should need for a year.
And you should do it again annually as preventive maintenance if you
don't want to rebuild the pump more often than every 5-6 years.


We cleaned it
all out very well, etc..., but with the new gasket, the pump is
difficult to cycle, but it works. (The old cylinder gasket was worn
completely smooth...

Possibly eaten away by the bowl "cakes."

Everything works, but we're maybe a little concerned that the
difficulty of the pumping action may stress the components too much. I
assume, however, that this is only temporary, and that the action will
eventually become easier.

It won't. Not till there's sufficient lubrication in the pump.

Putting a motor on a PH II pumps it with a much shorter and faster
stroke than slower more deliberate pumping manually. The shorter faster
stroke means it takes longer to prime...which means the rubber parts in
the pump are subjected to more dry friction, wearing 'em out MUCH faster
unless the pump is VERY well lubricated. The smartest thing you could do
is remove the motor...but you prob'ly won't. So you'd better make sure
there's plenty of thick teflon grease in the pump.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

Help with head - Peggy???
 

Followup question:

Peggie Hall wrote:
All is working now. Only thing is I'm not sure if we put enough grease
in the cylinder area where the piston rides up and down.

If you were sparing with it, you prob'ly didn't. The whole tube in the
rebuild kit is supposed to go into the pump...not just a dab on each of
the o-rings etc. Take the pump off the base again and put the whole rest
of the tube into it...pump a few times to spread it all over the inside
of the cylinder. That's all the lubrication it should need for a year.
And you should do it again annually as preventive maintenance if you
don't want to rebuild the pump more often than every 5-6 years.


For a pump which is already in service (and was rebuilt with nearly all
of the supplied grease going onto the piston O-ring), this is how I
regreased it:

I took off the base, put the piston at the highest point, and then
thoroughly swabbed the entire cylinder (since it was difficult to
control, I did the part under the stroke a bit, too) with the
non-petroleum swimming pool supplier Teflon grease you'd previously
recommended.

This was done when I didn't succeed in making the dry pump go
completely dry (from another thread). I've since learned to expect
that some of it will fall back, and it's not a problem. However...

Two questions result from that and the above.

First, is that sufficient, or do I need to take the piston out and put
it on the O-ring?

Second, the pool stuff is markedly thicker than that provided in the
rebuild kits. That's resulted in (well, perceived, anyway) greater
pumping effort than before. As yet, I've only been using fresh
drinking water (our tanks), run through the sink drain Tee on the
intake, so I don't know if that's a factor. The second question is
whether the higher viscosity (not actually at all viscous - it won't
run out of the tube of you hold it upside down) and apparent higher
effort is "OK" or a sign of some problem and the need to buy something
else?

Thanks, as always...

L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
http://tinyurl.com/p7rb4 - NOTE:new URL! The vessel as Tehamana, as we
bought her

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore.
Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

Help with head - Peggy???
 

Skip Gundlach wrote:
For a pump which is already in service (and was rebuilt with nearly all
of the supplied grease going onto the piston O-ring), this is how I
regreased it:

I took off the base, put the piston at the highest point, and then
thoroughly swabbed the entire cylinder (since it was difficult to
control, I did the part under the stroke a bit, too) with the
non-petroleum swimming pool supplier Teflon grease you'd previously
recommended.

You went to all the trouble to swap the inside of the pump? You could
have just put a VERY healthy squirt of the grease into it and pumped a
couple of times to spread it all over the in side of the cylinder?
Swabbing leaves a very thin coating...whereas a good squirt of it gets
onto everything in pump...any excess will flush out without any harm to
anything.


Two questions result from that and the above.

First, is that sufficient, or do I need to take the piston out and put
it on the O-ring?

You used so little that you'll prob'ly have to do it again in a few
months, so don't worry about it till then.


Second, the pool stuff is markedly thicker than that provided in the
rebuild kits.

The thicker the better...it doesn't wash out as fast.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

Help with head - Peggy???
 

Because it makes little sense without it, I apologize for leaving in
the entirety of the conversation until my followup:

Peggie Hall wrote:
Skip Gundlach wrote:
For a pump which is already in service (and was rebuilt with nearly all
of the supplied grease going onto the piston O-ring), this is how I
regreased it:

I took off the base, put the piston at the highest point, and then
thoroughly swabbed the entire cylinder (since it was difficult to
control, I did the part under the stroke a bit, too) with the
non-petroleum swimming pool supplier Teflon grease you'd previously
recommended.

You went to all the trouble to swap the inside of the pump? You could
have just put a VERY healthy squirt of the grease into it and pumped a
couple of times to spread it all over the in side of the cylinder?
Swabbing leaves a very thin coating...whereas a good squirt of it gets
onto everything in pump...any excess will flush out without any harm to
anything.

I've got terminal density, I think, as I recall your recommendation to
this effect (long) before. However, on followup then, it was my
recollection that the PHIIs don't let you do that.

So, assuming I misremember (happens more and more lately), where,
exactly, do I put this heavy squirt? As I (think I) understand how
this thing works, if I were to take it off the base as I did, and
merely put a large dollop of the grease in it, reassemble, and pump
away, it would immediately go out the joker, other than that which
managed to scrape against the sides.

Or, is there somewhere else I put it? As I did it, I put a pretty good
layer around the cylinder. My first attempt (years ago, now) had me
putting it down the flush/dry valve, and the output to the bowl,
because I couldn't see anywhere else (which was supposed to be so easy)
which, of course, thoroughly lubed the ball and seat and made the seal
not very good there.

So, apparently, I have no picture at all of how to put in the grease of
which I now have a very sizeable (well, at least as compared to the
stuff wihch comes with the rebuild kits) tube.

Pardon my density on this matter. I'm pretty sure I could field
assemble, in the dark, blindfolded, one of these units, so I think I
know where stuff is. How do I lube this better than I did? Take off
the base, put a tablespoon of grease on the bottom of the piston? Or
on the flapper weight? and expect it will make its way to the O-ring
and walls? Or through one of the two ball valve locations? If
swabbing the cylinder is trouble, I can't imagine I'm supposed to
disassemble the piston/cylinder, which would be necessary to grease it
through the top of the piston, the only other possiblility short of
removing the air valve of which I'm aware.

And, of course, if there's a simpler way, while I don't mind (I've got
long fingers) doing it, if I don't have to swab/slather the cylinder,
I'm all for it :{))

Thanks, as usual, from your densest student...

L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
http://tinyurl.com/p7rb4 - NOTE:new URL! The vessel as Tehamana, as we
bought her

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore.
Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

Help with head - Peggy???
 

I've rebuilt my PHII's several times, and you really have to
disassemble it to lube the piston properly. It sure would be nice if I
could figure out how to do it without disassembling though... I
basically let it go a couple of years then rebuild it, lubing it at
that time. In the interim, I lube the shaft and the wet/dry rotor
several times.

Skip Gundlach wrote:


So, assuming I misremember (happens more and more lately), where,
exactly, do I put this heavy squirt? As I (think I) understand how
this thing works, if I were to take it off the base as I did, and
merely put a large dollop of the grease in it, reassemble, and pump
away, it would immediately go out the joker, other than that which
managed to scrape against the sides.

Or, is there somewhere else I put it? As I did it, I put a pretty good
layer around the cylinder. My first attempt (years ago, now) had me
putting it down the flush/dry valve, and the output to the bowl,
because I couldn't see anywhere else (which was supposed to be so easy)
which, of course, thoroughly lubed the ball and seat and made the seal
not very good there.

Help with head - Peggy???
 

Skip Gundlach wrote:
So, assuming I misremember (happens more and more lately), where,
exactly, do I put this heavy squirt? As I (think I) understand how
this thing works, if I were to take it off the base as I did, and
merely put a large dollop of the grease in it, reassemble, and pump
away, it would immediately go out the joker, other than that which
managed to scrape against the sides.

Here's what Raritan says:

"Remove the pump from the base, pull the piston all the way up, then
smear the grease all around the pump cylinder, beneath the piston.
Sure, some it it will be forced out through the joker valve, but
there's no other way to lubricate it. No, you don't have to ids-
assemble the pump (although, to some people, just removing the pump
from the base might be considering disassembling the head. )"
--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

Help with head - Peggy???
 

Skip Gundlach wrote:
That's *exactly* what I did.
I took off the base, put the piston at the highest point, and then
thoroughly swabbed the entire cylinder (since it was difficult to
control, I did the part under the stroke a bit, too) with the
non-petroleum swimming pool supplier Teflon grease you'd previously
recommended.")

How was that insufficient (as asserted in your last)?

It was your use of the word "swabbed," Skip, instead of "smeared."
Knowing your penchant for meticulous detail, that produced a vision of
your using a Q-Tip to meticulously coat the cylinder with a thin coat of
the grease--and then you asked if you should also put some on the
o-ring...vs giving it a healthy squirt and using whatever works to
spread it all over the inside the cylinder, which would also coat the
o-ring and everything else on the pump shaft when you pumped. You can't
use too much of it--it's water soluble, so any excess that's forced out
won't hurt anything and would actually benefit any y-valve in the head
discharge line, but you can use too little to last very long...and it
appeared that's what you'd done.

And unless you "swabbed" at least a tablespoon of it, I'm still not sure
you didn't.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

Help with head - Peggy???
 

I say try a poop sized dollop in the bottom pipe as far as you dare
push it, plugging it up, then flush slowly with a minimum of water.
Chances are two of three times that it will get pumped and slathered
through all the areas that need it. Would hot water help, d'ya think?
Might work out better than dissassembly again. That stuff floats,
right? Does that mean we can hope to sequester a dollop in the top part
of the pump, to bounce around for a while, doing it's work?

Now, about the environmental aspect of flushing all those hydro flouro
carbon artificial teflon greases...

How about bacon fat, or even vaseline?

Terry K