Brightwork finish preferences .. question
 

Please post what you use on your bright-work. Tell why you use it, how it
goes on, and just generally what reason this product is the one for you.

There are so many finishes, products, etc that I can't decide.

It seems as if Cetol ( spelling? ) is all the rage. But there are lots of
products, I guess.

What is wrong with just plain teak oil?

Brightwork finish preferences .. question
 

On Tue, 30 May 2006 02:32:57 GMT, "Thomas Wentworth"
wrote:

What is wrong with just plain teak oil?

Nothing actually, it looks quite good when freshly applied. The
problem with all oil finishes is that they darken (oxidize) with age
and require harsh cleaning methods (acid wash, sanding, etc.)
Eventually the teak wears thin from all that.

Cetol is a religious issue and you either love it or hate it. I fall
into the latter group. It is basically a stain which hides the
natural appearance of the teak, and has an odd (to my eye) orange tint
to it. Without faithful and regular reapplication it fades to
something which resembles old barn paint and looks quite unpleasant.
It is also very slippery when wet.

Which brings us to varnish, another religious issue. Varnish is
arguably the most attractive teak finish when properly applied and
maintained. It is a LOT of work however to keep it up, and if
neglected requires stripping and a total do over with about 7 coats.
Epifanes is a quality varnish which looks great when freshly applied
but is not as durable as Z-spar in my limited experience.

Try to find the Practical Sailor reports on varnish and other teak
treatments.

Brightwork finish preferences .. question
 

"Thomas Wentworth" wrote in message
news:t9Oeg.2962$634.359@trndny06...
Please post what you use on your bright-work. Tell why you use it, how it
goes on, and just generally what reason this product is the one for you.

There are so many finishes, products, etc that I can't decide.

It seems as if Cetol ( spelling? ) is all the rage. But there are lots of
products, I guess.

What is wrong with just plain teak oil?


For my interior wood I use Formby's Tung Oil. It is in fact a wiping
varnish. You just wipe it on with a rag, as you would with teak oil.

Alan Gomes

Brightwork finish preferences .. question
 

I use Honey Teak, and have for about 5 years. You put on 3 base coats
of the Honey, which is a pigmented polyurethane. You mix the Honey with
a flow fluid and a catalyst. Then you put on 2+ coats of the clear
enamel, again mix the enamel with flow fluid and catalyst. This makes a
beautiful finish that is tough! Be sure to follow their directions
because it's a bit different to apply than regular varnish. Try to do
it when it's cool and/or cloudy. Hot and direct sun will make it bubble
on raw teak on the first coat. For maintenance you only have to scuff
the surface with a 3M red pad and put on another coat or two of clear
annually. http://www.fabulainc.com/
I just finished putting on the annual maintenance coat... it rained
yesterday and the water beads up on the finish just like a car that's
just been waxed.

Brightwork finish preferences .. question
 

I prefer one of the modern catalyzed urethane/acrylics such a "Honey
Teak" or "Smith & Co. 5 year clear". These are for teak only and dont
have the adhesion for other species.

The reason is ... they look like 'prime' oil based varnish, can be
'hand-rubbed' or powerbuffed and with minor maintenance can last 5-6
seasons.

Whats wrong with teak oil? It rapidly oxidizes and turns very dark
and then needs to be stripped. Of course, a 'resinated' teak oil can
produce a gloss surface that rivals the very best varnish coatings for
"interior" work.


In article t9Oeg.2962$634.359@trndny06, Thomas Wentworth
wrote:

Please post what you use on your bright-work. Tell why you use it, how it
goes on, and just generally what reason this product is the one for you.

There are so many finishes, products, etc that I can't decide.

It seems as if Cetol ( spelling? ) is all the rage. But there are lots of
products, I guess.

What is wrong with just plain teak oil?

Brightwork finish preferences .. question
 

I just 'double coat' with the maintenance clear coat every two years
and powerbuff it with a highspeed autobody shop polisher in the
intervening years.


In article om, Keith
wrote:

I use Honey Teak, and have for about 5 years. You put on 3 base coats
of the Honey, which is a pigmented polyurethane. You mix the Honey with
a flow fluid and a catalyst. Then you put on 2+ coats of the clear
enamel, again mix the enamel with flow fluid and catalyst. This makes a
beautiful finish that is tough! Be sure to follow their directions
because it's a bit different to apply than regular varnish. Try to do
it when it's cool and/or cloudy. Hot and direct sun will make it bubble
on raw teak on the first coat. For maintenance you only have to scuff
the surface with a 3M red pad and put on another coat or two of clear
annually. http://www.fabulainc.com/
I just finished putting on the annual maintenance coat... it rained
yesterday and the water beads up on the finish just like a car that's
just been waxed.

Brightwork finish preferences .. question
 

I was looking for an acrylic product like this a few weeks back and
the only one I could find (the one in Gloucester MA) appeared to have
gone out of business. I gave up and invested in teak oil.

Do I have to get all the teak oil off before I can use Honey Teak?

--

Roger Long



"Rich Hampel" wrote in message
...
I prefer one of the modern catalyzed urethane/acrylics such a "Honey
Teak" or "Smith & Co. 5 year clear". These are for teak only and
dont
have the adhesion for other species.

The reason is ... they look like 'prime' oil based varnish, can be
'hand-rubbed' or powerbuffed and with minor maintenance can last 5-6
seasons.

Whats wrong with teak oil? It rapidly oxidizes and turns very dark
and then needs to be stripped. Of course, a 'resinated' teak oil
can
produce a gloss surface that rivals the very best varnish coatings
for
"interior" work.


In article t9Oeg.2962$634.359@trndny06, Thomas Wentworth
wrote:

Please post what you use on your bright-work. Tell why you use it,
how it
goes on, and just generally what reason this product is the one for
you.

There are so many finishes, products, etc that I can't decide.

It seems as if Cetol ( spelling? ) is all the rage. But there are
lots of
products, I guess.

What is wrong with just plain teak oil?

Brightwork finish preferences .. question
 

Probably, but call Tom at Fabula (link posted earlier) and ask him...
he's the inventor of the stuff and THE expert. You may just be able to
wipe down with alcohol or something and sand.

Brightwork finish preferences .. question
 

In article t9Oeg.2962$634.359@trndny06,
"Thomas Wentworth" wrote:

Please post what you use on your bright-work. Tell why you use it, how it
goes on, and just generally what reason this product is the one for you.

As others have mentioned, this is somewhat a religious topic.

We prefer Cetol as we only re-coat every couple of years as needed, and
the two or five coats we can apply while we're at an anchorage for a few
days last quite a long time.

I admire the absolutely beautiful brightwork done in varnish or the
modern equivalents, but refuse to spend the time to make it so.

We SAIL our boat in season. This year looks to be a bit below our usual,
only 73 scheduled days out and sailing. Last year was awful, about 65
days. We used a grand total of 13 gallons of diesel, about 50 hours' run
time.

Your results will almost assuredly vary.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Brightwork finish preferences .. question
 

"Thomas Wentworth" wrote:
Please post what you use on your bright-work. Tell why you use it, how it
goes on, and just generally what reason this product is the one for you.


Jere Lull wrote:
As others have mentioned, this is somewhat a religious topic.


Yes, but it shouldn't be.

We prefer Cetol as we only re-coat every couple of years as needed, and
the two or five coats we can apply while we're at an anchorage for a few
days last quite a long time.

I admire the absolutely beautiful brightwork done in varnish or the
modern equivalents, but refuse to spend the time to make it so.


Actually, the time spent is getting it to look good in the
first place, and learning how to achieve that. Most people
could probably never get a good looking coat of varnish on,
no matter how much time they spent.

Once the surface is in good shape & looking Bristol, it only
takes a small amount of touch-up per season (at least, at
this latitude.) OTOH it *cannot* be deferred or the surface
goes to crap quickly.


We SAIL our boat in season. This year looks to be a bit below our usual,
only 73 scheduled days out and sailing. Last year was awful, about 65
days. We used a grand total of 13 gallons of diesel, about 50 hours' run
time.

Your results will almost assuredly vary.


I would just as soon lay down a coat of cheap shellac, then
paint on Sears Weather-Beater or some other cheap &
super-durable finish. Why put on a pretend bright finish
that still takes too much work? A nice light cream or buff
color accents the boat nicely and looks pretty good, and
lasts for years even in the Flroida sun. Then when you want
to sell, take a scrubby pad and scour off the paint, lay on
a coat of varnish, and there you go.

Having owned wooden boats, I am no longer seduced by the
romance of having any type of bright wood finishes on the
exterior. OTOH I am alos spoiled enough, and have rigid
enough aesthetic standards, that I'd rather not have ugly
congealed jello smeared on whatever wood my boat is showing
to the public.

If the wood is pretty, then show it! If not, or if you have
other priorities (not a bad thing at all) then why take half
measures?

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Brightwork finish preferences .. question
 

Raw teak soon degrades in full sun and turns grey and erodes from the
UV destruction of the exposed surface cells.

There are sealers that will retard the UV destruction; but, why spend a
fortune for teak only to have it erode away.


In article .com,
" wrote:

what is wrong with raw scrubbed natural teak?

DSK wrote:
"Thomas Wentworth" wrote:
Please post what you use on your bright-work. Tell why you use it, how it
goes on, and just generally what reason this product is the one for you.


Jere Lull wrote:
As others have mentioned, this is somewhat a religious topic.


Yes, but it shouldn't be.

We prefer Cetol as we only re-coat every couple of years as needed, and
the two or five coats we can apply while we're at an anchorage for a few
days last quite a long time.

I admire the absolutely beautiful brightwork done in varnish or the
modern equivalents, but refuse to spend the time to make it so.


Actually, the time spent is getting it to look good in the
first place, and learning how to achieve that. Most people
could probably never get a good looking coat of varnish on,
no matter how much time they spent.

Once the surface is in good shape & looking Bristol, it only
takes a small amount of touch-up per season (at least, at
this latitude.) OTOH it *cannot* be deferred or the surface
goes to crap quickly.


We SAIL our boat in season. This year looks to be a bit below our usual,
only 73 scheduled days out and sailing. Last year was awful, about 65
days. We used a grand total of 13 gallons of diesel, about 50 hours' run
time.

Your results will almost assuredly vary.


I would just as soon lay down a coat of cheap shellac, then
paint on Sears Weather-Beater or some other cheap &
super-durable finish. Why put on a pretend bright finish
that still takes too much work? A nice light cream or buff
color accents the boat nicely and looks pretty good, and
lasts for years even in the Flroida sun. Then when you want
to sell, take a scrubby pad and scour off the paint, lay on
a coat of varnish, and there you go.

Having owned wooden boats, I am no longer seduced by the
romance of having any type of bright wood finishes on the
exterior. OTOH I am alos spoiled enough, and have rigid
enough aesthetic standards, that I'd rather not have ugly
congealed jello smeared on whatever wood my boat is showing
to the public.

If the wood is pretty, then show it! If not, or if you have
other priorities (not a bad thing at all) then why take half
measures?

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Brightwork finish preferences .. question
 

On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 16:55:34 +0000, Rich Hampel wrote:

Raw teak soon degrades in full sun and turns grey and erodes from the
UV destruction of the exposed surface cells.

There are sealers that will retard the UV destruction; but, why spend a
fortune for teak only to have it erode away.

Yes, but it actually takes a pretty long time for bare teak to erode away.
So there's nothing wrong with raw, scrubbed natural teak if you like the
way it looks and feels.

This breakdown from UV is actually what causes varnish to de-bond and
peel. Better varnishes have better UV protection. Transparent UV
protectants are expensive. Cetol's answer is to use iron oxide, which is
very effective. This is what gives Cetol its orange color.

Matt O.

Brightwork finish preferences .. question
 

On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 06:22:39 +0000, Jere Lull wrote:

In article t9Oeg.2962$634.359@trndny06,

"Thomas Wentworth" wrote:

Please post what you use on your bright-work. Tell why you use it, how
it goes on, and just generally what reason this product is the one for
you.

As others have mentioned, this is somewhat a religious topic.

I try to be objective. There's never enough time to keep the boat looking
as it should, over the long haul too. So I'm always looking for a better
ongoing regimen.

We prefer Cetol as we only re-coat every couple of years as needed, and
the two or five coats we can apply while we're at an anchorage for a few
days last quite a long time.

I started using Cetol last summer, in addition to the Deks Olje I've been
using for the past several years. So now I have some wood with each on
it. I'm doing a running comparison.

My first impression is that they both take about the same amount of time
to get a good finish, but the Deks is a lot easier to deal with. Mostly
you can just slop on the Deks #1 until the wood is saturated. Cetol
requires skill and care to get an even coat, which is important to get an
even color, because it's so thick and goopy and orange. Deks' is easier
to clean up too (drips and spills).

Deks #2 is basically plain old gloss varnish that goes on over the
oil-like #1, but it's softer than most varnishes and doesn't stay as shiny
for as long. One advantage to this softness is that it's not particularly
slippery. Cetol, OTOH, is very hard and shiny, with a durable shine, but
it's dangerously slippery.

Because Cetol is so hard, it's harder to "scratch and patch." It's still
easy enough though, and you can build up the #1 to match the color of the
surrounding wood. It's not much work because it goes on so thick, all at
once. I think this is what most people find so appealing. kDeks is
easier to scrape and sand, and the #1 slops on so easily, but the color
doesn't match until the new spot darkens with age.

My hypothesis -- Deks is much easier to apply, and to maintain, but Cetol
lasts longer and patches better. So perhaps a bit more time/care invested
with Cetol at first can give better ongoing results. We'll see. I'll
report more when I see how the boat held up over the winter, and as this
sailing season progresses.

Matt O.