On Wed, 17 May 2006 21:04:02 -0500, Dave wrote:

On Wed, 17 May 2006 21:20:41 -0400, Wayne.B
said:

does that. I was talking about the more quantifiable ability to
continue steering itself with the helm locked long enough to go down
below and get more clothes, check a chart without getting spray on it,
grab something to eat, or walk up to the bow to tend to something.

I've never seen a sailboat that will do that without some sort of
positive feedback system, i.e., autopilot or windvane.

Gee, my old Islander 24 would do that most of the time in moderate winds. In
fact often it would do it without the helm locked.

A lot of boats balance well enough for this. In fact the best candidates
for vane steering are the boats that almost don't need it.

Matt O.

"Matt O'Toole" wrote

Gee, my old Islander 24 would do that most of the time in moderate
winds. In
fact often it would do it without the helm locked.

A lot of boats balance well enough for this. In fact the best
candidates
for vane steering are the boats that almost don't need it.

Most of the fin keel boats I've sailed had spade rudders and you
couldn't let go of them for a second; especially if they had tillers.

To be a little more precise about my boat (which has a modified rudder
and may not be typical of all E 32's):

Going fast under main alone, as in right after rolling up the headsail
or turning off the engine, self steering close hauled is effortless.
As long as the boat isn't yawing when you do it, just turning the helm
brake starts her jogging along to windward.

Going slowly, at the speed the boat can reach under main alone from a
standing start or after losing speed in a tack, the five minutes or so
of tweaking I tried before giving up wouldn't get her to settle down.
More experimentation, wearing around instead of tacking, etc. may
still do it so I shouldn't say she doesn't self steer.

At the higher speed it's easy, at the lower speed it's hard and maybe
impossible.

--

Roger Long

A lot of boats balance well enough for this. In fact the best
candidates
for vane steering are the boats that almost don't need it.



Roger Long wrote:
Most of the fin keel boats I've sailed had spade rudders and you
couldn't let go of them for a second; especially if they had tillers.


But if OTOH you locked the helm, like you have to do on your
own boat?

DSK

"DSK" wrote

But if OTOH you locked the helm, like you have to do on your own
boat?

Never tried it but it's had to imagine the Pearson 26 which I sailed a
lot would do it. I'm thinking back 20 years though.

If anyone knows of a spade rudder boat (except maybe for a long,
skinny, atypical, type) steering itself to windward, I'd be curious to
hear. Some skeg ahead of the rudder seems to help a lot.

--

Roger Long

But if OTOH you locked the helm, like you have to do on your own
boat?


Roger Long wrote:
Never tried it but it's had to imagine the Pearson 26 which I sailed a
lot would do it. I'm thinking back 20 years though.

If anyone knows of a spade rudder boat (except maybe for a long,
skinny, atypical, type) steering itself to windward, I'd be curious to
hear. Some skeg ahead of the rudder seems to help a lot.


I know of many... am pretty sure to have done it on a
Pearson 26, one of which I made a delivery trip many years ago.

All you need to do is get the helm set just enough to
weather that the boat will sail straight ahead when heeled a
bit, bear away when the wind slacks up or heads, and rounds
up slightly when heeled too far. I've done it on many fin
keelers including quite a few with no skeg. The best way
IMHO is to use a piece of very strong shock cord across the
cockpit & clove-hitched to the tiller, so that you can make
a fine adjustment by slipping the hitch a few twists to one
side or the other... and you can also grab the helm and
steer by hand if you have some urgent reason to do so quickly.

You're right that an underwater shape with more longitudinal
stability helps a lot. But it's not necessary to get the
boat to "sail itself" to windward or close reaching. On a
beam reach or off the wind, no dice!

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

DSK wrote:
But if OTOH you locked the helm, like you have to do on your own boat?



Roger Long wrote:

Never tried it but it's had to imagine the Pearson 26 which I sailed a
lot would do it. I'm thinking back 20 years though.

If anyone knows of a spade rudder boat (except maybe for a long,
skinny, atypical, type) steering itself to windward, I'd be curious to
hear. Some skeg ahead of the rudder seems to help a lot.


I know of many... am pretty sure to have done it on a Pearson 26, one of
which I made a delivery trip many years ago.

All you need to do is get the helm set just enough to weather that the
boat will sail straight ahead when heeled a bit, bear away when the wind
slacks up or heads, and rounds up slightly when heeled too far. I've
done it on many fin keelers including quite a few with no skeg. The best
way IMHO is to use a piece of very strong shock cord across the cockpit
& clove-hitched to the tiller, so that you can make a fine adjustment by
slipping the hitch a few twists to one side or the other... and you can
also grab the helm and steer by hand if you have some urgent reason to
do so quickly.

You're right that an underwater shape with more longitudinal stability
helps a lot. But it's not necessary to get the boat to "sail itself" to
windward or close reaching. On a beam reach or off the wind, no dice!

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Longitudinal stability?

" To be a little more precise about my boat (which
has a modified rudder and may not be typical of
all E 32's):"


roger that e32 looks like a great boat...how do ya
like it? what year do you have? on avg, how many
folks do you cruise with?...thanx....

Read my assessment of the boat, especially as a single hander, he

Http://home.maine.rr.com/rlma/Boat22.htm#Single

There are four of us and it's a great four person boat but will sleep
six for shorter cruises if the double extendable settee is used.
Unlike many boats that sleep six, it will also sail six and even eight
comfortably and six people can sit comfortably at the cabin table for
dinner.

A lot of ganja got smoked while these boat were being built so there
are a lot of funny angles in the interior joinerwork which gives them
a kind of hobbit like charm. It's all real wood however and one of
the pleasantest interiors I've seen in this price and size range.

The hulls and decks are solid and thick so there are no core problems
to worry about. These boats will be around long after most of their
contemporaries are gone.

The handling qualities are what I like best about the boat.

Ours is a 1980, the next to the last year and the first with the teak
cabin sole that adds a lot to the boat.

There's more than any rational and sane person would ever want to know
about the boat on my web site at:

Http://home.maine.rr.com/rlma/Boat.htm

--

Roger Long



"~^ beancounter ~^" wrote in message
ups.com...
" To be a little more precise about my boat (which
has a modified rudder and may not be typical of
all E 32's):"


roger that e32 looks like a great boat...how do ya
like it? what year do you have? on avg, how many
folks do you cruise with?...thanx....

roger...i will cruise the web site....thanx....

On Fri, 19 May 2006 20:14:52 +0000, Roger Long wrote:

There's more than any rational and sane person would ever want to know
about the boat on my web site at:

Http://home.maine.rr.com/rlma/Boat.htm

Roger, I saw your website and it looks like a pretty nice boat -- maybe
underrated and therefore a really good buy right now. Of course we're all
always thinking about our next boat!

Websites like yours are a great resource, and hopefully an archive.
Sadly, despite the amount of techie brainpower in the sailing community,
most mainstream boating sites are terrible. Thankfully folks like
yourself are carrying the torch. If you ever have to let the site go, I
hope you'll put out an appeal for someone to continue hosting it.

Matt O.