Surely beer has to stand during the fermentation/settling process. How can
you achieve that unless it's a houseboat you live on?

Not to mention how NASTY the smell is gonna be WHEN that thing tips over due
to wave action.

Hi Bill,

Bill Kearney wrote:
Surely beer has to stand during the fermentation/settling process. How can
you achieve that unless it's a houseboat you live on?

Not to mention how NASTY the smell is gonna be WHEN that thing tips over due
to wave action.


I have never personally tried to make beer or ale, but have
always thought it would be a neat hobby.

Some friends of mine in Seattle used to make great beers,
ales, and wines at home. They were members of the Boeing
Employees brewing club (or some such org). Also, my cousins
used to make very tasty dark beer at home.

Here are some questions wrt this thread:

Take it for granted that you could set up a gimbled
arrangement for the brewing keg--could be as simple as
suspending from the ceiling in an aft cabin with some
bungees to keep it from swinging around too much...

1) Would you be able to brew a batch in a fairly quiet
anchorage? How long does the brewing process take?

2) Is there something inherent in the brewing process that
would cause it to not work when the contents are constantly
agitated such as at sea? If settling is the issue, could
you substitute filtration?

3) Are ingredients (besides the water) such that they could
be stored fairly long term while on a cruise?

Any successful homebrewers out there?

Don W.

I really don't see a feasible way to brew while underway but it might be
possible in a quiet anchorage. I think filteration must be necessary.

Primary fermentation is in what is basically a food-grade garbage can. It
takes about week or less. Secondary fermentation takes
another...week...less with with a clarifying agent and maybe filtering.
After that, it's bottling. After bottling leave for one week and then enjoy
responsibily.

One can buy canned kits that should be easy to store.

My challenge is that I can't see me making a normal 5-gallons at a
time...too big for my boat. Wondering how others solved this.

Glenn.

"Don W" wrote in message
. com...
Hi Bill,

Bill Kearney wrote:
Surely beer has to stand during the fermentation/settling process. How
can
you achieve that unless it's a houseboat you live on?

Not to mention how NASTY the smell is gonna be WHEN that thing tips over
due
to wave action.


I have never personally tried to make beer or ale, but have
always thought it would be a neat hobby.

Some friends of mine in Seattle used to make great beers,
ales, and wines at home. They were members of the Boeing
Employees brewing club (or some such org). Also, my cousins
used to make very tasty dark beer at home.

Here are some questions wrt this thread:

Take it for granted that you could set up a gimbled
arrangement for the brewing keg--could be as simple as
suspending from the ceiling in an aft cabin with some
bungees to keep it from swinging around too much...

1) Would you be able to brew a batch in a fairly quiet
anchorage? How long does the brewing process take?

2) Is there something inherent in the brewing process that
would cause it to not work when the contents are constantly
agitated such as at sea? If settling is the issue, could
you substitute filtration?

3) Are ingredients (besides the water) such that they could
be stored fairly long term while on a cruise?

Any successful homebrewers out there?

Don W.

Don W wrote:
Here are some questions wrt this thread:

Take it for granted that you could set up a gimbled arrangement for the
brewing keg--could be as simple as suspending from the ceiling in an aft
cabin with some bungees to keep it from swinging around too much...

1) Would you be able to brew a batch in a fairly quiet anchorage? How
long does the brewing process take?

Anywhere from a month to a year. A decent ale might take 6 weeks.
Mostly depending on temperature, strength and gravity. A cool anchorage
would be preferred, warm ferments can get funky and messy. Ideally
something in the 50-70F range for ales.

2) Is there something inherent in the brewing process that would cause
it to not work when the contents are constantly agitated such as at
sea? If settling is the issue, could you substitute filtration?

According to lore, one of the things that made the original India Pale
Ale unique was the fact that they underwent secondary fermentation and
aging in oak casks while sailing from England to India. Supposedly the
agitation increased the efficiency of the fermentation, converting a
higher percentage of sugars to alcohol than was the norm at the time.
Some scholars dismiss this as just lore however.

Also, in Burton-on-Trent they created the Burton Union system which
intentionally agitates fermentation to increase efficiency. This also
produces a surfeit of yeast which they dry and put in jars and sell to
Aussies who actually eat it for some reason.

In general I think it is safe to say that the agitation of brewing at
anchor would allow the fermentation to go on longer than usual,
producing a slightly lower finishing gravity and higher alcohol than on
land. Also, clarity would be slightly reduced due to the agitation and
increased yeast bed. Filtration works, but requires a pump and filters
and will make a hell of a mess when a fitting lets loose. A simpler
solution would be to use a clarifying agent and some patience. Racking
to a tertiary fermenter would also help clarify it. Dark beers don't
need much clarity, and a full-bodied stout can hide a lot of flaws,
especially after the 3rd pint.

3) Are ingredients (besides the water) such that they could be stored
fairly long term while on a cruise?

It depends on how you make your beer. Storing fresh grain and hops is
probably a pain on a boat. On the other hand, dry malt extract can be
stored like sugar and vacuum packed hop pellets are more robust than
fresh hops. You can even use hop extract if your beer doesn't need too
much hop character. Dried yeast packs store nicely.

Making beer from dry extract, hop pellets and dry yeast is not going to
yield a competition-quality homebrew, but with practice, and depending
on your taste, you might be able to develop a combination of recipe and
technique that worked for you.

Any successful homebrewers out there?

I'm a former award-winning homebrewer and BJCP Master Beer Judge.

Where are you thinking of brewing? I'm assuming there are some ports of
call where an onboard brewery would be frowned upon.

--
Chuck Cox - SynchroSystems - Synchro.com
,
my email is politician-proof, just remove the PORK

Hi Chuck,

Chuck Cox wrote:

1) Would you be able to brew a batch in a fairly quiet anchorage? How
long does the brewing process take?


Anywhere from a month to a year. A decent ale might take 6 weeks.
Mostly depending on temperature, strength and gravity. A cool anchorage
would be preferred, warm ferments can get funky and messy. Ideally
something in the 50-70F range for ales.

A month to six weeks sounds doable. A lot of long-term
cruisers seem to hang out in the same place for that long.
The temperature range could probably be handled with a
cooler, or possibly with just a small water evaporation pump.

2) Is there something inherent in the brewing process that would cause
it to not work when the contents are constantly agitated such as at
sea? If settling is the issue, could you substitute filtration?


According to lore, one of the things that made the original India Pale
Ale unique was the fact that they underwent secondary fermentation and
aging in oak casks while sailing from England to India. Supposedly the
agitation increased the efficiency of the fermentation, converting a
higher percentage of sugars to alcohol than was the norm at the time.
Some scholars dismiss this as just lore however.

Also, in Burton-on-Trent they created the Burton Union system which
intentionally agitates fermentation to increase efficiency. This also
produces a surfeit of yeast which they dry and put in jars and sell to
Aussies who actually eat it for some reason.

In general I think it is safe to say that the agitation of brewing at
anchor would allow the fermentation to go on longer than usual,
producing a slightly lower finishing gravity and higher alcohol than on
land. Also, clarity would be slightly reduced due to the agitation and
increased yeast bed. Filtration works, but requires a pump and filters
and will make a hell of a mess when a fitting lets loose. A simpler
solution would be to use a clarifying agent and some patience. Racking
to a tertiary fermenter would also help clarify it. Dark beers don't
need much clarity, and a full-bodied stout can hide a lot of flaws,
especially after the 3rd pint.

If I understand what you are getting at correctly, you could
probably start a batch at anchor, and possibly let it
continue to ferment on a passage. Sounds like the agitation
wouldn't be a show stopper.

3) Are ingredients (besides the water) such that they could be stored

fairly long term while on a cruise?


It depends on how you make your beer. Storing fresh grain and hops is
probably a pain on a boat. On the other hand, dry malt extract can be
stored like sugar and vacuum packed hop pellets are more robust than
fresh hops. You can even use hop extract if your beer doesn't need too
much hop character. Dried yeast packs store nicely.

Making beer from dry extract, hop pellets and dry yeast is not going to
yield a competition-quality homebrew, but with practice, and depending
on your taste, you might be able to develop a combination of recipe and
technique that worked for you.

Fresh grain probably wouldn't be a problem unless you needed
large quantities of it. 25-50lbs could be vaccum packed and
storred on a boat. We like to make fresh bread, and are
considering taking an electric grinder and fresh wheat to
make flour for the bread.

I grew up on a wheat farm, so can testify that wheat,
barley, oats, and corn all store quite nicely if kept dry.
I'd add rice to the list as well, as we still have a good
bit of a 50 lb bag that we bought back in 1999, and its
still as good as new.

Don't know about hops though.


Any successful homebrewers out there?


I'm a former award-winning homebrewer and BJCP Master Beer Judge.

cool! Would you mind describing the process from start to
finish for those of us that would like to try, but haven't
yet gotten educated on the finer (or possibly even some of
the coarse) points?

Where are you thinking of brewing? I'm assuming there are some ports of
call where an onboard brewery would be frowned upon.

I'll bet! That would take some research to determine where
it would be okay and where they would get irritated at you.

Don W.

Don W wrote:

A month to six weeks sounds doable. A lot of long-term cruisers seem to
hang out in the same place for that long. The temperature range could
probably be handled with a cooler, or possibly with just a small water
evaporation pump.

Or if the outside water temp is good, use some kind of pumped water
jacket. I suppose if you were in a really calm anchorage you could
stuff the fermenter inside a small innertube and float it on a teather.

If I understand what you are getting at correctly, you could probably
start a batch at anchor, and possibly let it continue to ferment on a
passage. Sounds like the agitation wouldn't be a show stopper.

Ideally you'd want the least motion at the end of the fermentation when
it is clarifying. I'd turn your schedule around and start brewing a
week or two before I planned on an extended anchorage. You'd be
starting secondary fermentation when you dropped the hook.

On the other hand, brewing (from extract) is like making a big batch of
complicated soup, much easier at anchor than underway. I suppose you
could use one of those pre-boiled beer-in-a-bag kits, but I've never
heard anything good about the result.

cool! Would you mind describing the process from start to finish for
those of us that would like to try, but haven't yet gotten educated on
the finer (or possibly even some of the coarse) points?

That is a topic that literally requires a book to describe adequately.
The Complete Joy of Home Brewing is the bible:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/006...lance&n=283155
If you are in the US, the American Homebrewers Association is a good
source of info, including a monthly magazine. Here is their intro to
homebrewing:
http://www.beertown.org/homebrewing/beginning.html

An over-simplified summary of the process as I imagine it:

Boil 5 gallons of water, malt extract & hop pellets for an hour.
Get distracted because your "crew" just made an accidental jibe.
Return to galley to find your kettle has boiled over and you have dark
sticky burnt sugar water in all the places you can't clean but can smell
on a hot humid day.
Allow to cool for a few hours to room temperature.
Siphon "wort" to primary fermenter. Try to spill less than 50%.
Add yeast packets.
No, you can't drink it yet.
Threaten your "crew" with the plank if they mess with the fermenter for
the next few weeks. Ignore complaints about it being in the way.
At night you have something new to worry about; will the fermenter explode.
At 0300 you either hit a log or your fermenter just blew the airlock
into the ceiling. Fortunately it's not a log, unfortunately your
fermenter just spewed a mixture of dead yeast, soggy hop fragments and
protein solids all over the cabin. At least that'll cover up the smell
of the boilover on hot humid days. You won't find the airlock until an
excited customs dog finds it for you months later.
Once the primary fermentation has subsided, siphon to a clean, sterile
secondary fermenter. Try to spill less than 50%. Repeat threats to
crew. Relax, beer rarely explodes at this point in the process, unless
the temperature spikes.
No, you can't drink it yet.
Wait a few more weeks while it conditions and clarifies.
No, you can't drink it yet.
Siphon to a clean, sterile keg. Try to spill less than 50%. Natural
conditioning is for sissies, use forced carbonation. You did refill
your CO2 tank at the last port didn't you?
No, you can't drink it yet.
Wait another week for it to carbonate and condition.
OK, you can drink it now.

If there was too little oxygen at the beginning the yeast won't be
vigorous enough to dominate the bacteria and it'll taste like nasty
sugar water.
If there was too much oxygen at the end it'll oxidize and taste like wet
cardboard.
If there was too much sunlight, the hops will break down and it'll smell
skunky.
If it was too hot the fermentation will produce lots of higher alcohols
and fusel oils which will turbo-charge your hangover.
If you didn't ferment long enough it'll taste like sugar water.
If you fermented too long, the dead yeast cells will start to autolyze
and give your beer a nice MSG-like protein flavor.
If you got it just right, your "crew" will make the beer disappear and
you have to start all over.

FOR EXTRA CREDIT: Take your brewing ingredients through customs.
Customs agents love it when you try to bring in a big bag of green
sticky leafy material and a couple of big bags of tan-colored powder.
Ask me how I know.

--
Chuck Cox - SynchroSystems - Synchro.com
,
my email is politician-proof, just remove the PORK

This is starting to sound like a challenge ;-)

Don W.

Chuck Cox wrote:

An over-simplified summary of the process as I imagine it:

Boil 5 gallons of water, malt extract & hop pellets for an hour.
Get distracted because your "crew" just made an accidental jibe.
Return to galley to find your kettle has boiled over and you have dark
sticky burnt sugar water in all the places you can't clean but can smell
on a hot humid day.
Allow to cool for a few hours to room temperature.
Siphon "wort" to primary fermenter. Try to spill less than 50%.
Add yeast packets.
No, you can't drink it yet.
Threaten your "crew" with the plank if they mess with the fermenter for
the next few weeks. Ignore complaints about it being in the way.
At night you have something new to worry about; will the fermenter explode.
At 0300 you either hit a log or your fermenter just blew the airlock
into the ceiling. Fortunately it's not a log, unfortunately your
fermenter just spewed a mixture of dead yeast, soggy hop fragments and
protein solids all over the cabin. At least that'll cover up the smell
of the boilover on hot humid days. You won't find the airlock until an
excited customs dog finds it for you months later.
Once the primary fermentation has subsided, siphon to a clean, sterile
secondary fermenter. Try to spill less than 50%. Repeat threats to
crew. Relax, beer rarely explodes at this point in the process, unless
the temperature spikes.
No, you can't drink it yet.
Wait a few more weeks while it conditions and clarifies.
No, you can't drink it yet.
Siphon to a clean, sterile keg. Try to spill less than 50%. Natural
conditioning is for sissies, use forced carbonation. You did refill
your CO2 tank at the last port didn't you?
No, you can't drink it yet.
Wait another week for it to carbonate and condition.
OK, you can drink it now.

If there was too little oxygen at the beginning the yeast won't be
vigorous enough to dominate the bacteria and it'll taste like nasty
sugar water.
If there was too much oxygen at the end it'll oxidize and taste like wet
cardboard.
If there was too much sunlight, the hops will break down and it'll smell
skunky.
If it was too hot the fermentation will produce lots of higher alcohols
and fusel oils which will turbo-charge your hangover.
If you didn't ferment long enough it'll taste like sugar water.
If you fermented too long, the dead yeast cells will start to autolyze
and give your beer a nice MSG-like protein flavor.
If you got it just right, your "crew" will make the beer disappear and
you have to start all over.

FOR EXTRA CREDIT: Take your brewing ingredients through customs.
Customs agents love it when you try to bring in a big bag of green
sticky leafy material and a couple of big bags of tan-colored powder.
Ask me how I know.

Agitation won't increase your attenuation. In general, outside of
natural convections inside your fermenting vessel, you don't want to
agitate things. Flocculation is based upon having a still fermenter.

If you resort to malt extracts and dried yeast, you'll go back to
buying beer.

Spent 10 years in the brewing industry after I was a homebrewer, and
consulted in Scotland, US, Canada, Zambia.

The heat alone that you need for a proper boil would bring a lot of
danger to your boat. If you are willing to do this to save a couple
bucks on beer, then you might want to revisit some safety rules.

Honestly, research what is available and get some kind of bulk delivery
when you are there. You can order these things online in the UK, and
they're great.

Cheers

Wow:

Home brew on boats.........Lost of stuff to consider, pack, and clean,
and store.
I thinik maybe good rum is a bit more traditional and stores better.

Most the local pacific tropical brand beers I drank was pretty good
considering serving temp was 83 degrees. They seem to have overcome the
no refridgeration problem in the third world.

On the other hand, my last attempt at "home brew" was the late 1980s:

Receipt from a prison ship.
5 big cans of fruit cocktail.
a big chunck of baker's yeast.
garbage can scrubbed well.

Mix stuff in garbage can.
Let work for about 4 weeks. We couldn't wait any longer!
It got the job done.

We had another receipt that called for as much catchup you could steal
but didn't get a chance to try it out, although I was assured it
worked. Or at least he said it did back at Chino.

Bob

Okay, so you made me laugh Bob. Needed that to relax tonight...while I am
sitting enjoying a product of my own homebrewing hobby. Here's to
rrum...:-).

Glenn.

"Bob" wrote in message
ups.com...

Wow:

Home brew on boats.........Lost of stuff to consider, pack, and clean,
and store.
I thinik maybe good rum is a bit more traditional and stores better.

Most the local pacific tropical brand beers I drank was pretty good
considering serving temp was 83 degrees. They seem to have overcome the
no refridgeration problem in the third world.

On the other hand, my last attempt at "home brew" was the late 1980s:

Receipt from a prison ship.
5 big cans of fruit cocktail.
a big chunck of baker's yeast.
garbage can scrubbed well.

Mix stuff in garbage can.
Let work for about 4 weeks. We couldn't wait any longer!
It got the job done.

We had another receipt that called for as much catchup you could steal
but didn't get a chance to try it out, although I was assured it
worked. Or at least he said it did back at Chino.

Bob