I had my dinghy come unhooked about a dozen times last year due to
exactly this reason. It can happen with any spring latch hook, even
on a jackline if the line gets around it the right way. This is one
of the reasons I was asking about snap shackles.

--

Roger Long



wrote in message
oups.com...
You might want to look here
http://www.setsail.com/c_central/techtalk/harness.html when thinking
about "biners" for the boat side of the harness. Experience in the
98
Sydney-Hobart showed that drowning can occur if the harness can not
be
released by the wearer. I use a snap shacle on the harness side and
a
biner on the boat side of my tether, but suspect there are better
set-ups.

-- Tom.

Gary wrote:
Roger Long wrote:

I'll report back after a trip to the climbing store tomorrow. My
brother is a climber. We use these things hoping we'll never put a
weight on them and trying hard not to. Climbers put their full trust
in them over and over and over. They expect to fall on them and much
farther than the freeboard of any boat I've been on (except maybe that
Russian square rigger).

Salt water is an issue, of course.

You can also buy stainless carabiners for sal****er environments. Sea
Kayakers use them as do Navy special forces.


I believe mine are aluminum.

On 23 Mar 2006 18:31:02 -0600, Dave wrote:

I'm curious how you use these. Clip both onto the jack line or other
terminal at the same time so you can move the short one while leaving the
long one attached and vice versa?

I'll typically clip the long one to a jack line if I'm on the move,
and clip on with the short one if I'm staying put somewhere.

It's important to have a padeye near the companionway hatch so you can
clip on before going out.

On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 02:50:38 GMT, "Roger Long"
wrote:

I had my dinghy come unhooked about a dozen times last year due to
exactly this reason. It can happen with any spring latch hook, even
on a jackline if the line gets around it the right way. This is one
of the reasons I was asking about snap shackles.

I've seen lots of snap shackles release accidently for one reason or
another.

Roger Long wrote:
I had my dinghy come unhooked about a dozen times last year due to
exactly this reason. It can happen with any spring latch hook, even
on a jackline if the line gets around it the right way. This is one
of the reasons I was asking about snap shackles.

You can use locking carabiners. They are designed for one handed
operation.

Roger Long wrote:

Would someone please tell me why standard snap shackles shouldn't be
used for safety harness tethers, at least on a casual cruising boat
where midnight headsail changes and spinnaker dousing isn't part of
the normal drill?
Roger Long


Hi Roger:
I can not tell you why not, but I can tell why I do...

I was a hairy chested deep sea diver working the offshore oil patch in
the early 1980s. The industry standard for attaching a diver to the
umbilical was:
Diver...harness usually with 2 D-rings attached on the chest straps...
small stainless shackle on lower left D-ring connecting a snap shackle
to harness... followed by the umbilical D-ring . The idea was to attach
the umbilical to the diver and for the diver to "bail out" when
needed.

When I am on my boat and on deck I have a snap shackle attached to my
harness. I guess I am a creature of habit. Since not many of us here
have the statistics for recreational sail vessel mob events we are a
left with lots of what iffs and personal preferences. I can say this
for a fact:: the commercial diving industry requires diver side snap
shackles. But then again the tenders knew enough not to go yanking at a
diver's snap shackle. Or as I was taught, "just slip you're hand
under his harness. Then ya can drag the cocky ******* to the chamber
with no problems."

Personal preference............... I want the ability to detach myself
from any line..... instantly!

On the other hand I was one of those Big Government Liberals who always
wore my seatbelt years before it was mandatory.
Bob

"Bob" wrote

I was a hairy chested deep sea diver ....
You must have enjoyed reading "Shadow Divers" I had the privilege of
working with those two characters on the Titanic expedition last
summer. (If you didn't read it, you should)

I was agree entirely about the harness end release. I was actually
asking about the free end where I have heard a lot of negative things
about the standard snap shackle that seems to work so well in other
applications.

Do you know the story of how a clip shackle killed Edwin Link's son?


--

Roger Long

The Wichard type of shackles wont self release when tangled in the
teather line, etc. as do mountain climbers caribiners, etc.
(caribiners that dont have a locking 'gate' hinge). To constantly
needing to turn the ferruled hing gate lock on a mountaineers caribiner
every time you 'clip in or out' .... well you just wont do this on a
boat.

Most of such attachement shackles can quickly and surprisingly open
under load if the rope/sling slips and touches the 'gate' of the
shackle. Wichard has worked out this dangerous problem to some extent
.... but its still not foolproof, just a lot safer. You dont want to be
cheap when it comes to deck safety gear .... thats very false economy
that may cost you your life.


In article , Roger Long
wrote:

I think this was discussed recently here but it wasn't on my radar
screen at the time. Apologies if it’s too soon to bring it up again.

Would someone please tell me why standard snap shackles shouldn't be
used for safety harness tethers, at least on a casual cruising boat
where midnight headsail changes and spinnaker dousing isn't part of
the normal drill?

I looked at the double acting Winchard shackles that are supposed to
be the latest and greatest and the designer in me goes "Ugh". Your
fingers are in the way of what you want to clip to and the sharp edges
are going to be hard on jacklines or any other fiber. The tightwad in
me says something even less printable.

Does anyone have another recommendation for a boat where there is very
little deck work or much unclipping and moving around?

On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 19:58:11 GMT, "Roger Long"
wrote:

I think this was discussed recently here but it wasn't on my radar
screen at the time. Apologies if it’s too soon to bring it up again.

Would someone please tell me why standard snap shackles shouldn't be
used for safety harness tethers, at least on a casual cruising boat
where midnight headsail changes and spinnaker dousing isn't part of
the normal drill?

I looked at the double acting Winchard shackles that are supposed to
be the latest and greatest and the designer in me goes "Ugh". Your
fingers are in the way of what you want to clip to and the sharp edges
are going to be hard on jacklines or any other fiber. The tightwad in
me says something even less printable.

Does anyone have another recommendation for a boat where there is very
little deck work or much unclipping and moving around?


I use only Wiwchar or Gibb connectors for jacklines. I have a snap
shackle on the harness end.

On a deilivery from Hawaii, I was going forward in the middle on the
night on a tether with a biner attached to the jackline. The tether
fouled on the way forward. I gave it a tuck; it came loose, but
attached itself to a genoa sheet. I will never use another similar
system.

Jack

_________________________________________
Jack Dale
ISPA Yachtmaster Offshore Instructor
CYA Advanced Cruising Instructor
http://www.swiftsuresailing.com
_________________________________________

I believe the TransPacific Yacht Race to Hawaii requires that safety
harness attachment devices be releasable under load by the wearer, for
precisely that reason.