This is always a good time of year to think over your standard
operating procedures and decide what changes could increase your
safety and boating enjoyment. Here's a link to the description of one
thing I'm going to do differently this year:

http://home.maine.rr.com/rlma/Strider0603.htm#lifesling

Which brings up one of those questions without a clear-cut answer that
usually set off nice long newsgroup threads. What is the best way to
get the sopping wet idiot who went over the side back on board after
you've dragged him back to the boat with the lifesling?

I can't see myself paying a hundred and twenty bucks for seventy
dollars worth of blocks and line just because they come in a cute
little bag. I do want to have something dedicated and always stowed
in the same spot so I can teach people how to use it and do it myself
while panicked in the dark.

I've got an adjustable backstay so there is a nice convenient
attachment point well up the stay and just within reach. The reverse
transom on my boat makes it quite conducive to dragging someone aboard
that way. I'm trying to decide whether to make tackle to keep in a
nearby locker to clip on the backstay above the adjuster legs or to
just put a single block on a short whip with a snap shackle and run a
line to a deck winch. Tackles can tangle and be a lot of work to
extend when you are in a hurry. The single line could probably be
unobtrusive enough that it could be stoppered off with light stuff and
instantly ready for use. OTOH it might mean teaching someone how to
tail and crank a winch at an awkward moment. With the tackle, I could
go down the boarding ladder and pull and assist at the same time if I
was the only one remaining aboard.

With a sea running and the boat pitching, the stern is probably too
dangerous; especially with the boarding ladder down. In that case, I
probably would opt for the spinnaker halyard and a midships retrieval.
I'd be using a winch in any event in that case.

What's your vote for the stern retrieval, three part tackle or line
coiled and ready to be led to a sheet winch?

--

Roger Long

Roger Long wrote:
This is always a good time of year to think over your standard
operating procedures and decide what changes could increase your
safety and boating enjoyment. Here's a link to the description of one
thing I'm going to do differently this year:

http://home.maine.rr.com/rlma/Strider0603.htm#lifesling

Which brings up one of those questions without a clear-cut answer that
usually set off nice long newsgroup threads. What is the best way to
get the sopping wet idiot who went over the side back on board after
you've dragged him back to the boat with the lifesling?

I can't see myself paying a hundred and twenty bucks for seventy
dollars worth of blocks and line just because they come in a cute
little bag. I do want to have something dedicated and always stowed
in the same spot so I can teach people how to use it and do it myself
while panicked in the dark.

I've got an adjustable backstay so there is a nice convenient
attachment point well up the stay and just within reach. The reverse
transom on my boat makes it quite conducive to dragging someone aboard
that way. I'm trying to decide whether to make tackle to keep in a
nearby locker to clip on the backstay above the adjuster legs or to
just put a single block on a short whip with a snap shackle and run a
line to a deck winch. Tackles can tangle and be a lot of work to
extend when you are in a hurry. The single line could probably be
unobtrusive enough that it could be stoppered off with light stuff and
instantly ready for use. OTOH it might mean teaching someone how to
tail and crank a winch at an awkward moment. With the tackle, I could
go down the boarding ladder and pull and assist at the same time if I
was the only one remaining aboard.

With a sea running and the boat pitching, the stern is probably too
dangerous; especially with the boarding ladder down. In that case, I
probably would opt for the spinnaker halyard and a midships retrieval.
I'd be using a winch in any event in that case.

What's your vote for the stern retrieval, three part tackle or line
coiled and ready to be led to a sheet winch?

Good discussion points. I am negligent in practicing MOB on my boat.
While I do it regularly professionally, I rarely do it personally.

My thinking with regards to recovering someone from the water (me) is to
use the main boom and the vang. I can't climb aboard my boat from the
water without a ladder. My wife wouldn't be able to lift me without
significant mechanical advantage. In a panic halyards and winches would
be beyond her. Our plan is to undo the bottom of the vang and clip it
to the MOB. That would give a five to one advantage to get the MOB
aboard. The vang hangs directly over the side of the boat at midships.

Of course we normally drag a dinghy and that would be another place to
get out of the water and then back on the boat.

I think in your case, the angle of the backstay to the boat's side might
make it tough to work a tackle. I think a single line and block fails
the mechanical advantage requirement.

"Gary"

My thinking with regards to recovering someone from the water (me)
is to use the main boom and the vang.

I'm reluctant to advocate getting involved with the mainsail. Getting
an engine started when things are tense introduces a lot of
distraction and delay. If it ever isn't going to start, that will be
the time. You need the mainsail to be a sail. Getting the main down
is also not an operation I would want to undertake while trying to
keep an eye on that little head.

Circling around to make best use of a lifesling is a jibing maneuver
and everyone is going to be standing up and looking around. Bad time
to be vangless. Then, when you get the POB attached to the vang,
inattention by the helmsman could lead to a jibe. How would you like
your ribs to be the vang anchor in 30 knots of wind?

Your SOP should be as workable as possible in extreme conditions
because that's when you'll probably need it.

I think in your case, the angle of the backstay to the boat's side
might make it tough to work a tackle.

The backstay lines right up with the transom which is fairly smooth.
The boarding ladder is off to one side. I think it would be like
dragging a net of fish up the stern ramp of a dragger. Not pretty and
probably bruising to the ribs but the POB wouldn't be swinging around
and someone on the ladder could offer lots of assistance. I think it
would work except in a big seaway where the ladder and lower edge of
the transom would be a hazard as the boat pitched.


I think a single line and block fails the mechanical advantage
requirement.

Certainly. But, led to the big sheet winch? I would permanently mount
a block at the base of one of the backstay legs. The line would go up
to the hoisting block and back to the chainplate siezed to the
backstay leg at a couple of points. The coil would be taped or seized
with breakable stuff to a stern pulpit stanchion. It would just be a
matter of breaking all the light twine and pulling out less than two
feet of slack to clip into the lifesling. Then, around the winch and
crank.

I like this idea more as I think about it. Adding blocks to turn it
into a tackle makes it something that needs to be stored in a locker.
Then, you are rummaging instead of rescuing. It's also quicker to
pull out a single part if you need more slack to get to another
location, say the lifesling ends up on the quarter, than to extend a
tackle.

If I had a boat with a conventional transom and no boarding ladder,
I'd be thinking of something different although probably not the vang.

I think every boat should have a boarding ladder. What about a
portable one that goes over the side?

--

Roger Long

Roger,, what is the proper place to attach the safety line,, which you then
attach yourself too?

Should there be separate lines, port and starboard?

Figured I'd ask since you kinda are on that subject.

As for retrival? Probably would be easier from the side as the boat topside
is lower to the water that the stern, in most cases.

This is one of those duties that most pleasure boat captains,, I've never
done it,,, don't get around to practicing.

===========

I would think a line to the swimmer and then wrap that line around the
winch. Get the swimmer to the boat and get a second line on the swimmer. A
secure line. Now that you know the swimmer isn't going anywhere ,,, start
using the winch and get him/her into the boat. With a little luck,, a wave
might help you out.

----
"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
This is always a good time of year to think over your standard operating
procedures and decide what changes could increase your safety and boating
enjoyment. Here's a link to the description of one thing I'm going to do
differently this year:

http://home.maine.rr.com/rlma/Strider0603.htm#lifesling

Which brings up one of those questions without a clear-cut answer that
usually set off nice long newsgroup threads. What is the best way to get
the sopping wet idiot who went over the side back on board after you've
dragged him back to the boat with the lifesling?

I can't see myself paying a hundred and twenty bucks for seventy dollars
worth of blocks and line just because they come in a cute little bag. I
do want to have something dedicated and always stowed in the same spot so
I can teach people how to use it and do it myself while panicked in the
dark.

I've got an adjustable backstay so there is a nice convenient attachment
point well up the stay and just within reach. The reverse transom on my
boat makes it quite conducive to dragging someone aboard that way. I'm
trying to decide whether to make tackle to keep in a nearby locker to clip
on the backstay above the adjuster legs or to just put a single block on a
short whip with a snap shackle and run a line to a deck winch. Tackles
can tangle and be a lot of work to extend when you are in a hurry. The
single line could probably be unobtrusive enough that it could be
stoppered off with light stuff and instantly ready for use. OTOH it might
mean teaching someone how to tail and crank a winch at an awkward moment.
With the tackle, I could go down the boarding ladder and pull and assist
at the same time if I was the only one remaining aboard.

With a sea running and the boat pitching, the stern is probably too
dangerous; especially with the boarding ladder down. In that case, I
probably would opt for the spinnaker halyard and a midships retrieval. I'd
be using a winch in any event in that case.

What's your vote for the stern retrieval, three part tackle or line coiled
and ready to be led to a sheet winch?

--

Roger Long

On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 01:05:41 GMT, "Roger Long"
wrote:

What is the best way to
get the sopping wet idiot who went over the side back on board after
you've dragged him back to the boat with the lifesling?

I'd vote for mid-ship retrieval using a halyard led to a winch. One
problem with any strategy is retrieving a semi concious person who may
not be able to clip on by themselves. You almost have to put a second
person over the side in that case to assist, which means using two
halyards to do it safely.

"Roger Long" wrote in message
...

What's your vote for the stern retrieval, three part tackle or line coiled
and ready to be led to a sheet winch?

For a stern retrieval? Hmmm... it would have to be very calm conditions for
me to try it. That said, you have the backstay, I would have some line
handy. Of course, if the person is unable to help, you'll have trouble with
that method.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Roger Long wrote:
This is always a good time of year to think over your standard
operating procedures and decide what changes could increase your
safety and boating enjoyment. Here's a link to the description of one
thing I'm going to do differently this year:

http://home.maine.rr.com/rlma/Strider0603.htm#lifesling

Which brings up one of those questions without a clear-cut answer that
usually set off nice long newsgroup threads. What is the best way to
get the sopping wet idiot who went over the side back on board after
you've dragged him back to the boat with the lifesling?

I can't see myself paying a hundred and twenty bucks for seventy
dollars worth of blocks and line just because they come in a cute
little bag. I do want to have something dedicated and always stowed
in the same spot so I can teach people how to use it and do it myself
while panicked in the dark.

I've got an adjustable backstay so there is a nice convenient
attachment point well up the stay and just within reach. The reverse
transom on my boat makes it quite conducive to dragging someone aboard
that way. I'm trying to decide whether to make tackle to keep in a
nearby locker to clip on the backstay above the adjuster legs or to
just put a single block on a short whip with a snap shackle and run a
line to a deck winch. Tackles can tangle and be a lot of work to
extend when you are in a hurry. The single line could probably be
unobtrusive enough that it could be stoppered off with light stuff and
instantly ready for use. OTOH it might mean teaching someone how to
tail and crank a winch at an awkward moment. With the tackle, I could
go down the boarding ladder and pull and assist at the same time if I
was the only one remaining aboard.

With a sea running and the boat pitching, the stern is probably too
dangerous; especially with the boarding ladder down. In that case, I
probably would opt for the spinnaker halyard and a midships retrieval.
I'd be using a winch in any event in that case.

What's your vote for the stern retrieval, three part tackle or line
coiled and ready to be led to a sheet winch?

Assuming the MOB is not unconscious, I would go for a self-assisted midships
recovery, using the vang if it is a rope-tackle type, but if a solid rod
vang possibly clipping on the storm jib at the tack and using a halyard on
the main sheet winch. This would form a rough sling.

People in the water invariably panic and forget that the leg muscles are 3
times stronger on average than the arm muscles. It helps a lot if an ankle
can be wedged behind a stanchion to supply the muscle power, with the crew
(if available) lifting the arms/shoulders.

I once recovered a guy who pitched over the foredeck during a tack whilst
racing. We had completed the tack but our speed was much reduced, and the
guy simply grabbed a stanchion (on the leeeward side) and I sheeted in and
bore away slightly. The wind was quite strong and the boat almost stopped,
the lee rail went under. I then let go everything and luffed up and the guy
was back on board so quickly he claimed not to be wet, and resumed his place
in the cockpit.

OK, we were lucky. Everything went like clockwork, and the boat's hull did
the lifting, but it goes to show that if this all happens during a tack,
when the boat slows, then little or no extra assistance is required. Watch
out for this happening many times during the Americas Cup Races, and see how
quickly they recover the unfortunate crew member,(and hopefully go on to win
the race!).


Dennis.

"Dennis Pogson" wrote

Assuming the MOB is not unconscious, I would go for a self-assisted
midships
recovery, using the vang if it is a rope-tackle type,

Things always look different when you consider the specifics. See my
reply about vangs to Gary above.

On my boat, I will probably be the only one strong enough and with
enough experience with the gear and working on deck to be performing
the recovery. The helmsman will probably be a freaked out kid
responding to my frantic "Other way, NO, the other "other" way!"
instructions. Would you want someone clipped to the boom under those
conditions? For the kind of crew it sounds like you have, the vang is
probably a good option.

I would hope to be hove to at this point with just enough jib showing
to hold the position. The thing I like most about the lifesling is
that it secures the **** (Person In Scary Situation) to buy time until
you can stabilize things. However, there are all sorts of things that
could make dealing with something as important to control as the main
and which is subject to big forces a bad idea. Being close to rocks
would be one. I might use the vang but I sure want it to be plan B
instead of plan A.

Waking up this morning, the tackle permanently rigged on the back stay
is looking less good. We have a great boarding ladder. In conditions
where it is safe to do a stern recovery, we will probably be back to
the **** so fast that they will still be able to scramble up. I wore
an old baseball hat all last season. My small brain creates an
unusual cone shaped taper to the top of my head so it blows off
constantly. We went back for it more times than I can count last year
and I still have it. I even picked it up alone several times.

I'm thinking now training and SOP will be as follows:

1) Scream
2) Toss Horseshoe and MOB pole
3) Scream some more
4) Sail to beam reach position
5) Roll up jib to about 25 percent
6) Toss Lifesling
7) Round **** without casting off jib sheet.
8) If **** doesn't latch onto rescue line or sling, bring jib across
and try again.
If **** grabs line, head up to kill way and let boat settle into hove
to attitude.
9) Pull **** to stern if stern recovery appears practical, otherwise
to leeside midships.

I realize now that a hat is a lot easier to retrieve. Even though it
is very small and, being brown, nearly invisible in the water (great
practice for the return part of the maneuver), a grinning kid grabs it
with a boat hook and you are on your way. That boathook on a swimmer
would be ripped right out of his hands. The fun starts with step 9).

I wish I'd thought to make my spinnaker halyard long enough to reach
the big sheet winches. Maybe we do just get the **** lashed alongside
like a whale ready for the cutting, get the main down, and then use
the vang.

The world could use a 250 pound dummy sewed up in old clothes and foul
weather gear to try this stuff out.

--

Roger Long

Roger Long wrote:
"Dennis Pogson" wrote

I wore an old baseball hat all last season. My small brain creates an
unusual cone shaped taper to the top of my head so it blows off
constantly. We went back for it more times than I can count last year
and I still have it. I even picked it up alone several times.

I realize now that a hat is a lot easier to retrieve. Even though it
is very small and, being brown, nearly invisible in the water (great
practice for the return part of the maneuver), a grinning kid grabs it
with a boat hook and you are on your way.

Musto make a super sailing/baseball cap with a short strap and a crocodile
clip so strong it would pull the collar off your sailing jacket. Check it
out if you don't mind advertising the Musto name!

Dennis.

And miss all that good MOB practice!?

--

Roger Long



"Dennis Pogson" wrote

Musto makes a super sailing/baseball cap with a short strap and a
crocodile
clip so strong it would pull the collar off your sailing jacket.
Check it
out if you don't mind advertising the Musto name!