Mys Terry wrote:
On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 14:57:40 -0500, Ryk wrote:


On 16 Feb 2006 07:33:05 -0800, in message
ps.com
"purple_stars" wrote:


as low tech as a foam filled vest is there's something about it i find
reassuring, that something being that if it gets punctured it won't
sink. maybe keep foam filled vests near the ditch bag and put them on
if you have time before you go over the side, keeping the inflatable on
most times in case you accidentally fall overboard ?

I'd pick the foam vest if I knew I was going in the water. If nothing
else, mine would provide somewhat better insulation against
hypothermia, which is exactly the thing that keeps me from wearing it
when sailing around on a nice warm day. My Mustang inflatable with
harness is quite comfortable even on hot days, although I had to
relocate the approval labels to make it comfortable to wear over just
skin.

Ryk


To me, the best feature of a foam vest in rough conditions is the padding when
you bang into things. My ribs are very grateful!


Mys Terry
I'm with the guy who has both. We have the manually inflated mustangs
with harnesses for everyday where and positive flotation ones for the
real emergency. I don't like the auto inflaters because the sometimes
inflate when you don't want them to. Of course there is the bang on the
head argument but I'm hoping the cold water will wake me up!

Gaz

How much does it take to get these things to go off prematurely?

I know I worried about it last summer. The fog was incredibly thick,
water was running off of every thing, rigging, arms, glasses.
Everything was just soaked.

Howard

Gary wrote:
Mys Terry wrote:

On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 14:57:40 -0500, Ryk wrote:


On 16 Feb 2006 07:33:05 -0800, in message
.com
"purple_stars" wrote:


as low tech as a foam filled vest is there's something about it i find
reassuring, that something being that if it gets punctured it won't
sink. maybe keep foam filled vests near the ditch bag and put them on
if you have time before you go over the side, keeping the inflatable on
most times in case you accidentally fall overboard ?


I'd pick the foam vest if I knew I was going in the water. If nothing
else, mine would provide somewhat better insulation against
hypothermia, which is exactly the thing that keeps me from wearing it
when sailing around on a nice warm day. My Mustang inflatable with
harness is quite comfortable even on hot days, although I had to
relocate the approval labels to make it comfortable to wear over just
skin.

Ryk



To me, the best feature of a foam vest in rough conditions is the
padding when
you bang into things. My ribs are very grateful!


Mys Terry

I'm with the guy who has both. We have the manually inflated mustangs
with harnesses for everyday where and positive flotation ones for the
real emergency. I don't like the auto inflaters because the sometimes
inflate when you don't want them to. Of course there is the bang on the
head argument but I'm hoping the cold water will wake me up!

Gaz

In article rs.com,
Howard wrote:

How much does it take to get these things to go off prematurely?

I know I worried about it last summer. The fog was incredibly thick,
water was running off of every thing, rigging, arms, glasses.
Everything was just soaked.

Howard

Howard, my son and I have worn ours for two years in spray and rain and
they have not gone off. He was horsing around on a dock with his sister,
fell in, and cost me a rearming kit.

These suckers work.

I have done some dangerous boating, including trying to rescue folks who
didn't know what they were doing in nasty seas. On those occasions, I
used a regular PFD.

But for daily use, I always wear my auto inflating PFD.

haraln

--
To respond, obviously drop the "nospan"?

Harlan Lachman wrote:
In article rs.com,
Howard wrote:


How much does it take to get these things to go off prematurely?

I know I worried about it last summer. The fog was incredibly thick,
water was running off of every thing, rigging, arms, glasses.
Everything was just soaked.

Howard


Howard, my son and I have worn ours for two years in spray and rain and
they have not gone off. He was horsing around on a dock with his sister,
fell in, and cost me a rearming kit.

These suckers work.

I have done some dangerous boating, including trying to rescue folks who
didn't know what they were doing in nasty seas. On those occasions, I
used a regular PFD.

But for daily use, I always wear my auto inflating PFD.

haraln


I see the Mustang company makes an industrial model or two for those
sailors who can afford the best.
http://www.mustangsurvival.com/produ...gory.php?mc=82

My personal opinion and treatise on PFDs

If you are even considering (and you should) the purchase of an
inflating PFD, please read completely and understand this. You don’t
have to agree, but you probably will.

Find somewhere that you can go to try on numerous suppliers products.
There are at least three suppliers in North America: Sospenders, Mustang
and Crewfit.
I personally believe that only the auto-inflate (AIPFD) are worth
considering at all.
Try them all on. Do not even look at the price tag. Do NOT buy a PFD
on price
If a PFD is not Comfortable, you may be tempted to not make the point to
wear it always.
When you find the one that is comfortable to you - Buy It (and a re-arm
kit).
If you are a sailor, buy the version with the harness.
Get the both the included and replacement cylinders weighed as soon as
practical and write the actual weight and date on it with a waterproof
marker.

It has been my experience over very many years that PFDs are not worn
for two reasons.
1. They impede movement.
2. They are uncomfortable or cause discomfort.

This is the thing that the AIPFD specifically avoids. BUT, it is still
of no value if it is not on the body that hits the water.

Have the re-arm kit in a double zip lock bag stored in your sea bag.
Again, if it should deploy when not needed, you need to be able to
recover it during the passage.

My wife and I have been wearing AIPFDs since long before the USCG daned
to approve them. We have each used them (as opposed to merely wear) at
lease once in eighteen seasons. I have two original Crewfit that are in
the reserve stock. They will pass my annual inspection, but they are
very visibly worn at the folds. These devices do not have an infinite
life.

Now that you have an AIPFD, please remember to inspect it at least
annually. Blow it up and let is sit for a day, and while it is sitting,
replace the batteries in the light you added and weigh and date-mark the
cylinder. Over the years, I have lost two cylinders because they came
up short on weight. Neither had any visible distress to the seal.

Let us depart and hope that your only experience with your AIPFD is that
day when you miss a step to the dink and end up hearing the BANG-
Whoose. It is very comforting - until you figure out that apart from
the embarrassment, you are also out the 20+$ for the re-arm kit.

Please, take the rambling of this old waterman to heart.

Matt Colie
Lifelong Waterman, Licensed Mariner and Perpetual Sailor

MarshallE wrote:
I am looking at various PFD's that are auto/manual inflatable with a
harness. I know very little about the different brands and am hopeful that
others have opinions and perhaps where to purchase at discount prices.
thanks

Hello All:

All the advice I have read here sounds reasonable. Some, of course, is
personal preference. However what concerns me most is that nobody is
asking the single most important question.......... What temperature
water do you plan on using your PFD????

Before splitting a hair between auto or manual answer this, How long
can you last before lapsing into early stages of hypothermia?

80 degrees F
70 degrees F
60 degrees F
50 degrees F

If you do not know, ya better find out because the type of PFD used in
south FL will not keep your ass alive in the great lakes or any months
north of LA, CA.

Scenario..... fall over board. Water temp is 61 degrees. How long
before you start having uncontrolled shivers and can no longer grasp a
line?

Now calculate these factors: one beer + 61 years old + blood pressure
meds + smoker 10 years ago + 3' chop on the water. When was the last
time you ran 2 miles in under 15 minutes?
Still Bobbing

This month's Pacific Yachting has an article on this. Seems if you have a
PFD that keeps you from breathing in a lot of water when you first go over
you might stand a chance.
"Bob" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hello All:

All the advice I have read here sounds reasonable. Some, of course, is
personal preference. However what concerns me most is that nobody is
asking the single most important question.......... What temperature
water do you plan on using your PFD????

Before splitting a hair between auto or manual answer this, How long
can you last before lapsing into early stages of hypothermia?

80 degrees F
70 degrees F
60 degrees F
50 degrees F

If you do not know, ya better find out because the type of PFD used in
south FL will not keep your ass alive in the great lakes or any months
north of LA, CA.

Scenario..... fall over board. Water temp is 61 degrees. How long
before you start having uncontrolled shivers and can no longer grasp a
line?

Now calculate these factors: one beer + 61 years old + blood pressure
meds + smoker 10 years ago + 3' chop on the water. When was the last
time you ran 2 miles in under 15 minutes?
Still Bobbing

Bob,

Let's just allow that you are very correct about hypothermia.
Survival suits are standard issue during the late season here on the
Great Lakes. My personal opinion is that they will not save many lives
until they come up with a worksuit that is also a PFD and exposure suit.
If you are not wearing it when things go wrong, you will probably not
have time to put it on - ever.

My experience has been that, if your crew can find it, they can get your
body out of the water. I have it on very good authority that your
chances get very bad if your do not maintain your exposure to air.

I have seen individuals that were to all outward appearance COLD and
DEAD come back to life when warmed up. That is not intended to suggest
that I think that this is a good idea.

On more than one occassion (it's called frost biting along the east
coast) I have ended up in water that also had sea ice in it. Yes, the
cold is debilitating, but the navy May West that I used to wear would
keep me afloat even in foul whether gear until the crash boat got there.
On one occasion, they were a little late. I was no help getting me
out of the water, they took me straight to the club house dock, loaded
me in a dock cart and dumped me next to the fireplace.

But, if I had not been at the surface when they did get there, they
might not have found me for quite a while longer.

Matt Colie



Bob wrote:
Paul Nightingale wrote:

This month's Pacific Yachting has an article on this. Seems if you have a
PFD that keeps you from breathing in a lot of water when you first go over
you might stand a chance.


Hi Paul:

I agree...." you might stand a chance...." I apologize if I sound like
a broken record here. I still have not heard anyone acknowledge or
mention water temperature here. I was in Seattle one year when the air
temp was 92 degrees F. So after only one beer and a burger my friend
and I jumped into the sound at a place called Shilshole (just west of
Ballard). While we were sweltering on the rocks when I hit that
beautiful crystal blue water....POW ! It took about 10 minutes and I
could barely haul out on a rock. That 55 degree water was Very
debilitating! That is why I say forget manual or auto. If in water
under 75 degrees I use an insulated Type V worksuit using a simple
harness. If I go over I do not want the added complications of
hypothermia during a retrieval.

So pleaes, please make PFD choices based on local conditions and use
not what some slick cataloge tells you.

Matt Colie wrote:
Bob,

Let's just allow that you are very correct about hypothermia.
Survival suits are standard issue during the late season here on the
Great Lakes. My personal opinion is that they will not save many lives
until they come up with a worksuit that is also a PFD and exposure suit.
If you are not wearing it when things go wrong, you will probably not
have time to put it on - ever.

Hi Matt:

Eureka...! Now I know what is going on..... Here is the
misunderstanding.
First, SURVIVAL SUITS do not exist anymore. They are called IMMERSION
SUITS. They are not intended for use other than leaving the boat for
the last time. They are also called Gumby Suits. Why are they called
IMMERSION SUITS? I think the word "survival" implied something. Believe
me after losing several friends over the last 30 years there is no such
thing as a SURVIVAL suit. The first two were my best friends from
highschool. One was a roommate at college. The orange makes it simper
for the USCG to find the bodies. Oh remind me to tell you about the
story when my brother inlaw and his buddy lost their boat in AK. The
friend washed up on shore first. My brother inlaw was just outside the
surf and got to watch his friend get munched by a bear. Ummm, a bit
rubber on the outside but tasty inside.

Here is my prefered PFD on cold water. There are USCG approved
WORKSUITS with a Type PFD V rateing. No mittens or booties. The
worksuits are NOT what we used to call survival suits (now immersion
suits) They look just like nylon coveralls only they have full closed
cell floatation as insulation. Plus the suits have an inflatable
(manual) pillow collar. This is what the coasties wear in OR AK
boarding parties. Or at least they use to.

My experience has been that, if your crew can find it, they can get your
body out of the water.

This is the beauty of the work suit. If on deck you the crew have a PFD
PLUS exposure protection.

I have it on very good authority that your
chances get very bad if your do not maintain your exposure to air.

Yes, water conducts heat (I can not remmber exactly) uhhh, help me out
here.. 4 times as fast as air? Keep you head and neck out of the water!


I have seen individuals that were to all outward appearance COLD and
DEAD come back to life when warmed up. That is not intended to suggest
that I think that this is a good idea.

Agreed. I think the kick starts are a bit rough.

On more than one occassion (it's called frost biting along the east
coast) I have ended up in water that also had sea ice in it. Yes, the
cold is debilitating, but the navy May West that I used to wear would
keep me afloat even in foul whether gear until the crash boat got there.

Yes, lots of volume for boyancy.

On one occasion, they were a little late. I was no help getting me
out of the water, they took me straight to the club house dock, loaded
me in a dock cart and dumped me next to the fireplace.

But, if I had not been at the surface when they did get there, they
might not have found me for quite a while longer.

But think of what a more comfortable experince you would have had in a
full length insulated worksuit bobbing about onyour back like a sea
otter.

Do a Google search and type in "STEARNS 1580 anti exposure coverall"
and see what happens.

What part of the county do you live? East coast?
Bob
Matt Colie



Bob wrote:
Paul Nightingale wrote:

This month's Pacific Yachting has an article on this. Seems if you have a
PFD that keeps you from breathing in a lot of water when you first go over
you might stand a chance.


Hi Paul:

I agree...." you might stand a chance...." I apologize if I sound like
a broken record here. I still have not heard anyone acknowledge or
mention water temperature here. I was in Seattle one year when the air
temp was 92 degrees F. So after only one beer and a burger my friend
and I jumped into the sound at a place called Shilshole (just west of
Ballard). While we were sweltering on the rocks when I hit that
beautiful crystal blue water....POW ! It took about 10 minutes and I
could barely haul out on a rock. That 55 degree water was Very
debilitating! That is why I say forget manual or auto. If in water
under 75 degrees I use an insulated Type V worksuit using a simple
harness. If I go over I do not want the added complications of
hypothermia during a retrieval.

So pleaes, please make PFD choices based on local conditions and use
not what some slick cataloge tells you.

Here you go.............. this is what I ahve been talking about.


https://www.stearnsinc.com/Industria...ryID=756623 8