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Marina Question ,,,
I am re-entering the world of cruising. It has been a number of years. My
base is New England. In the last few days I have been brought to the point of absolute insanity by two of the local marina's near me. Today, I called a marina to inquire how much it charged to step a mast. I explained to the woman on the phone that a boat hauling truck would be bringing my boat [ I don't own the boat yet, I was seeking the info so that if I make an offer I would know what the charges would be ] to the marina where it would be launched. At first she seemed evasive. She didn't seem to want to answer my question. She kept saying she was looking for her "paper". Finally, she said it would be $6 per foot of the boat when the boat was dropped off and another $6 per foot of the boat when the boat was put in the water. I asked, why are you charging twice. The truck is bringing the boat, it will go right in the water. She then said "you are upset by how much it cost". I tried to explain "I can't be upset since I never knew what the cost was to begin with". After she started telling me how I feel about issues I never asked her about, I asked what was the charge to step the mast. She said around $400 dollars. I almost fell over backwards. Then, I hung up the phone. Is this the way of the world in cruising? Have all the marina's become thieves? |
Marina Question ,,,
On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 00:35:14 GMT, "Thomas Wentworth"
wrote: After she started telling me how I feel about issues I never asked her about, I asked what was the charge to step the mast. She said around $400 dollars. I almost fell over backwards. Get used to it Tom, that's just the beginning. BOAT = Break Out Another Thousand That's why there is no such thing as a free boat. They all cost about the same to work on, might as well get a good one. The most reasonable prices are further south in my experience, no bargains in New England. The marinas there are going out of business left and right as the land becomes too valuable, and the ones remaining can charge almost as much as they want. |
Marina Question ,,,
Wayne,,, if you are right, and you probably are; then boating is doomed. I
suppose I will read in the paper any day now that we, the US Taxpayer, is building a new yachting facility for the people of Iraq. ================== "Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 00:35:14 GMT, "Thomas Wentworth" wrote: After she started telling me how I feel about issues I never asked her about, I asked what was the charge to step the mast. She said around $400 dollars. I almost fell over backwards. Get used to it Tom, that's just the beginning. BOAT = Break Out Another Thousand That's why there is no such thing as a free boat. They all cost about the same to work on, might as well get a good one. The most reasonable prices are further south in my experience, no bargains in New England. The marinas there are going out of business left and right as the land becomes too valuable, and the ones remaining can charge almost as much as they want. |
Marina Question ,,,
Thomas Wentworth wrote:
Is this the way of the world in cruising? Have all the marina's become thieves? I didn't quite follow your story, but your reaction mirrors mine. Here is one of my stories: I put into Cape May due to some gales when I was sailing south one November. I was weathered in. Beats me if that was a factor, but the place charged me $248 / night for my 42' sailboat. Left a very bad taste in my mouth as you may guess. No, it wasn't a resort marina - just an end tie with no amenities. |
Marina Question ,,,
Couldn't you anchor, or something? That is crazy!
"Paul Cassel" wrote in message . .. Thomas Wentworth wrote: Is this the way of the world in cruising? Have all the marina's become thieves? I didn't quite follow your story, but your reaction mirrors mine. Here is one of my stories: I put into Cape May due to some gales when I was sailing south one November. I was weathered in. Beats me if that was a factor, but the place charged me $248 / night for my 42' sailboat. Left a very bad taste in my mouth as you may guess. No, it wasn't a resort marina - just an end tie with no amenities. |
Marina Question ,,,
Maybe she didn't know what 'stepping the mast' meant.
"Thomas Wentworth" wrote: I am re-entering the world of cruising. It has been a number of years. My base is New England. In the last few days I have been brought to the point of absolute insanity by two of the local marina's near me. Today, I called a marina to inquire how much it charged to step a mast. I explained to the woman on the phone that a boat hauling truck would be bringing my boat [ I don't own the boat yet, I was seeking the info so that if I make an offer I would know what the charges would be ] to the marina where it would be launched. At first she seemed evasive. She didn't seem to want to answer my question. She kept saying she was looking for her "paper". Finally, she said it would be $6 per foot of the boat when the boat was dropped off and another $6 per foot of the boat when the boat was put in the water. I asked, why are you charging twice. The truck is bringing the boat, it will go right in the water. She then said "you are upset by how much it cost". I tried to explain "I can't be upset since I never knew what the cost was to begin with". After she started telling me how I feel about issues I never asked her about, I asked what was the charge to step the mast. She said around $400 dollars. I almost fell over backwards. Then, I hung up the phone. Is this the way of the world in cruising? Have all the marina's become thieves? grandma Rosalie |
Marina Question ,,,
That's more than twice what you can get it done for in the Casco Bay
area of Maine. There are some excellent and very honest boat yards and marinas but quite a spread in prices. Even shopping around, a 30 - 35 foot boat is going to cost you $2,000 to $3,000 dollars a year with out fixing anything, replacing anything that breaks, or making any improvements. Unless you spend about $50,000 in that size range, you should plan on spending $3,000 to $6000 additional the first year, assuming you can do a lot of work yourself. If you have to have all the work done for you, triple that figure, at least. After that, you'll easily find a couple of grand of things to fix and improve each year. Better go into it with your eyes open. -- Roger Long "Thomas Wentworth" wrote in message news:6VdCf.5682$Jn1.898@trndny01... I am re-entering the world of cruising. It has been a number of years. My base is New England. In the last few days I have been brought to the point of absolute insanity by two of the local marina's near me. Today, I called a marina to inquire how much it charged to step a mast. I explained to the woman on the phone that a boat hauling truck would be bringing my boat [ I don't own the boat yet, I was seeking the info so that if I make an offer I would know what the charges would be ] to the marina where it would be launched. At first she seemed evasive. She didn't seem to want to answer my question. She kept saying she was looking for her "paper". Finally, she said it would be $6 per foot of the boat when the boat was dropped off and another $6 per foot of the boat when the boat was put in the water. I asked, why are you charging twice. The truck is bringing the boat, it will go right in the water. She then said "you are upset by how much it cost". I tried to explain "I can't be upset since I never knew what the cost was to begin with". After she started telling me how I feel about issues I never asked her about, I asked what was the charge to step the mast. She said around $400 dollars. I almost fell over backwards. Then, I hung up the phone. Is this the way of the world in cruising? Have all the marina's become thieves? |
Marina Question ,,,
On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 01:17:00 GMT, "Thomas Wentworth"
wrote: Wayne,,, if you are right, and you probably are; then boating is doomed. I suppose I will read in the paper any day now that we, the US Taxpayer, is building a new yachting facility for the people of Iraq. Welcome to Nova Scotia. R. |
Marina Question ,,,
On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 05:39:17 GMT, "Roger Long"
wrote: Even shopping around, a 30 - 35 foot boat is going to cost you $2,000 to $3,000 dollars a year with out fixing anything, replacing anything that breaks, or making any improvements. Amazingly, that's about right. But I am in a major club in Toronto. Some Maine wharf shouldn't be twice the price. Unless you spend about $50,000 in that size range, you should plan on spending $3,000 to $6000 additional the first year, assuming you can do a lot of work yourself. If you have to have all the work done for you, triple that figure, at least. After that, you'll easily find a couple of grand of things to fix and improve each year. Better go into it with your eyes open. I run a tight ship, so to speak, and your estimates are only slightly over (I do two "projects" a year with the goal of making the boat roughly contemporary instead of being stuck in the '70s in the next three years or so). I had some help reassembling my rebuilt Atomic 4, but other than that, it's all me. But even a stupid replacement Nicro vent was close to 200 bucks. Replacing the fuel and exhaust system was about $550. A PCV kit is $80. It mounts up, even on a basic boat. A quart of VC17 is $40. And so on. It's a good thing people give me lightly used sails, because if I bought a new set every three years like the racing fellers, I'd be broke. R. |
Marina Question ,,,
"Thomas Wentworth" wrote in message news:6VdCf.5682$Jn1.898@trndny01... I am re-entering the world of cruising. Based on this post, I think you should reconsider it. Capt. Bill |
Marina Question ,,,
"rhys" wrote
Amazingly, that's about right. What you mean, "Amazingly"? I'm a marine professional, author, noted authority, and I know how to type:) Some Maine wharf shouldn't be twice the price. No such thing as "some Maine wharf". That Maine disappeared when most boat were built out of wood. The law was just changed to fix the problem but it hasn't yet been implemented. Every Maine wharf and shoreline is currently taxed as if it had condos or a waterfront mansion on it. That cost gets passed on to the fishermen and every other waterfront user. Recreational facilities have to support those costs with the income from a two and a half month boating season. Because of our high tides, you can save a bundle on boat storage by hauling the boat up on your beach in a cradle and storing it yourself. You'll be paying enough in property taxes to buy a 30 foot boat every year though. I run a tight ship, so to speak, and your estimates are only slightly over They should be slightly over. These numbers are what you should be prepared to spend without being forced to either put up with unsafe situations are end up sitting on your boat wishing you could actually use it. Hopefully, you can get by with less but you don't want to spend that kind of money and then not be able to use your boat. You need a little cushion. -- Roger Long |
Marina Question ,,,
Some Maine wharf shouldn't be twice the price.
Roger Long wrote: No such thing as "some Maine wharf". That Maine disappeared when most boat were built out of wood. The law was just changed to fix the problem but it hasn't yet been implemented. Every Maine wharf and shoreline is currently taxed as if it had condos or a waterfront mansion on it. Do you mean that the tax laws have changed so as to reflect property usage? That is wise and we are trying to get such laws passed here, otherwise there are no brakes on the condo-ification of pretty much all desirable real estate in the country. Because of our high tides, you can save a bundle on boat storage by hauling the boat up on your beach in a cradle and storing it yourself. You'll be paying enough in property taxes to buy a 30 foot boat every year though. Ouch! Our taxes are high enough that mom-n-pop businesses, farms, small friendly marinas, etc etc, have no option but to sell out to Wal-Mart and the condo developers. And communities are wondering why things are changing to such an unfriendly world, but they can't seem to forego the tax dollars. I run a tight ship, so to speak, and your estimates are only slightly over Roger Long wrote: They should be slightly over. These numbers are what you should be prepared to spend without being forced to either put up with unsafe situations are end up sitting on your boat wishing you could actually use it. Hopefully, you can get by with less but you don't want to spend that kind of money and then not be able to use your boat. You need a little cushion. Very well said. It's very important to have both a set of priorities, and the bucks in pocket to implement those priorities. Boats need "stuff" and while you need not pay the exorbitant cost of some items which triple in price for the word "marine" printed on the label, it still ain't free. Even spit'n polish costs something. Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
Marina Question ,,,
"DSK" wrote
Do you mean that the tax laws have changed so as to reflect property usage? Yes, the referendum passed this fall and the legislature is working on implementation. In a state that usually shows unusual common sense, the change failed the first time around. It took a massive education effort to get enough people to realize that the coastline was effectively going to become part of Massachusetts and New Jersey if it didn't pass. It used to be that, every time a waterfront business watched a new house going up on a piece of vacant shoreline, they knew that their property taxes would shortly follow. This still won't prevent waterfront users from being priced out of obtaining property but it will help keep them from being forced off of what they have now. -- Roger Long |
Marina Question ,,,
The last time I did the ICW was 2001 and the only place over $3 a foot
for a transient was Trump's in AC. I don't remember Cape May as being particularly expensive, and it is an easy place to anchor. I was only charged a "catamaran premium" once ($5!) though I did have to pay for oversize slips a few times. T-heads are special case, though. Next summer I'll be paying for a 42 foot t-head even though my cat is only 38 (including extensions) feet long. Overall, I was very impressed by the hospitality and reasonable treatment we received almost everywhere. Although there were a few overpriced places, it was more common to find helpful, friendly places, charging a buck a foot (probably not too many of them left!). Many of them would load us a car for shopping, or make other special accommodations. While the prices might be higher now, I'd be surprised if gouging was the rule, rather than the exception. A few exceptions do stand out - like the twit who wanted us to pay for 50 Amp service when we were stepping down to 30 Amp and didn't have an A/C (we said no thanks). Or paying a fortune to raft 4 deep at Block Island. OTOH, its clear that we're in an inflationary period now. Overcrowding is causing rates in Boston to go up - fancy marinas downtown can get $160 a foot for the summer, without parking. More unnerving is that the second and third tier places are able to get rates that just a few years ago were "premium." Paul Cassel wrote: Thomas Wentworth wrote: Is this the way of the world in cruising? Have all the marina's become thieves? I didn't quite follow your story, but your reaction mirrors mine. Here is one of my stories: I put into Cape May due to some gales when I was sailing south one November. I was weathered in. Beats me if that was a factor, but the place charged me $248 / night for my 42' sailboat. Left a very bad taste in my mouth as you may guess. No, it wasn't a resort marina - just an end tie with no amenities. |
Marina Question ,,,
You should check around - you may be asking for something that the
marina doesn't normally do. They may be quoting for renting a crane or towing the boat to another facility, or hiring a rigger. Or they may be quoting for both unstepping and stepping. Or they may just be expensive. Thomas Wentworth wrote: I am re-entering the world of cruising. It has been a number of years. My base is New England. In the last few days I have been brought to the point of absolute insanity by two of the local marina's near me. Today, I called a marina to inquire how much it charged to step a mast. I explained to the woman on the phone that a boat hauling truck would be bringing my boat [ I don't own the boat yet, I was seeking the info so that if I make an offer I would know what the charges would be ] to the marina where it would be launched. At first she seemed evasive. She didn't seem to want to answer my question. She kept saying she was looking for her "paper". Finally, she said it would be $6 per foot of the boat when the boat was dropped off and another $6 per foot of the boat when the boat was put in the water. I asked, why are you charging twice. The truck is bringing the boat, it will go right in the water. She then said "you are upset by how much it cost". I tried to explain "I can't be upset since I never knew what the cost was to begin with". After she started telling me how I feel about issues I never asked her about, I asked what was the charge to step the mast. She said around $400 dollars. I almost fell over backwards. Then, I hung up the phone. Is this the way of the world in cruising? Have all the marina's become thieves? |
Marina Question ,,,
rhys wrote:
On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 01:17:00 GMT, "Thomas Wentworth" wrote: Wayne,,, if you are right, and you probably are; then boating is doomed. I suppose I will read in the paper any day now that we, the US Taxpayer, is building a new yachting facility for the people of Iraq. Welcome to Nova Scotia. R. What? BTW, this guy could use a home yacht club. http://www.hfxnews.ca/ |
Marina Question ,,,
Roger Long wrote:
"DSK" wrote Do you mean that the tax laws have changed so as to reflect property usage? Yes, the referendum passed this fall and the legislature is working on implementation. In a state that usually shows unusual common sense, the change failed the first time around. It took a massive education effort to get enough people to realize that the coastline was effectively going to become part of Massachusetts and New Jersey if it didn't pass. It used to be that, every time a waterfront business watched a new house going up on a piece of vacant shoreline, they knew that their property taxes would shortly follow. This still won't prevent waterfront users from being priced out of obtaining property but it will help keep them from being forced off of what they have now. We have the same problem up here. Rich 'mericans throwing around Yankee dollahs and driving up the cost of shore front properties. The provincial govt jumps on the band wagon by raising assessments sky high...forcing more & more long time owners to sell at least part of their family owned properties to... you guessed it...more rich 'mericans. Vicious cycle for locals. |
Marina Question ,,,
Very well said. It's very important to have both a set of
priorities, and the bucks in pocket to implement those priorities. Boats need "stuff" and while you need not pay the exorbitant cost of some items which triple in price for the word "marine" printed on the label, it still ain't free. Even spit'n polish costs something. The only thing more expensive is something that has a STC number on it. Leanne |
Marina Question ,,,
Tell me about it. I'm the maintenance officer of a flying club.
-- Roger Long "Leanne" wrote in message ... Very well said. It's very important to have both a set of priorities, and the bucks in pocket to implement those priorities. Boats need "stuff" and while you need not pay the exorbitant cost of some items which triple in price for the word "marine" printed on the label, it still ain't free. Even spit'n polish costs something. The only thing more expensive is something that has a STC number on it. Leanne |
Marina Question ,,,
"Roger Long" wrote in news:%DoCf.146409$XC4.144502
@twister.nyroc.rr.com: This still won't prevent waterfront users from being priced out of obtaining property but it will help keep them from being forced off of what they have now. Everytime I read about these kinds of things, I think back to a quote in the newspaper from a Beaufort, SC, waterfront mansion owner. She didn't want that "floating trailer park" blocking her view she'd paid $1.2M for. Could it be they're trying to get rid of boating for these kinds of people? The tax bureaucrats are.... |
Marina Question ,,,
I stopped at BI this summer for the first time in a long time and was amazed at how tight the power boats were packed at Champlin's. Looked like most of them couldn't get out if they wanted to, and most didn't seem to want to. Fortunately, our YC has a mooring in New Harbor. I haven't been there since I was a teenager, oh so many years ago. We used to walk over the hill to go to the movie. Of course, on the way back it was through the cemetery where the guys tried to scare the girls so they could hold them close. Oh those sneaky guys, but we loved it. Leanne |
Marina Question ,,,
"Larry" wrote in message ... "Roger Long" wrote in news:%DoCf.146409$XC4.144502 @twister.nyroc.rr.com: Everytime I read about these kinds of things, I think back to a quote in the newspaper from a Beaufort, SC, waterfront mansion owner. She didn't want that "floating trailer park" blocking her view she'd paid $1.2M for. Could it be they're trying to get rid of boating for these kinds of people? The tax bureaucrats are.... I live in Beaufort and the problem is that we have a transplant Yankee for a mayor. Btw, he is the one that got the bridge schedule change several years ago. So many people have come here because of the laid back charm. After a while they get bored and try to change it to the way they did it up north. I am a transplant, but have been here long enough to be naturalized Beaufortonian and can still see the beauty as it is. You are right about the tax bureaucrats. We lucked on this old cottage in an estate sale over 20 years ago. Because we are on a deep water creek, the taxes have been going up every year. The funny part is the house valuation seems to stay the same, but the land value has about quadrupled. Leanne |
Marina Question ,,,
Capt Bill,,
If I ever come across your bow when I am sailing ,, watch out. I swear I will throw a turd right in your lap! Now, go **** off. "A H FOSTER" wrote in message news:6tjCf.48966$Ez3.36747@trnddc03... "Thomas Wentworth" wrote in message news:6VdCf.5682$Jn1.898@trndny01... I am re-entering the world of cruising. Based on this post, I think you should reconsider it. Capt. Bill |
Marina Question ,,,
On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 18:13:07 GMT, "Thomas Wentworth"
wrote: If I ever come across your bow when I am sailing ,, watch out. I swear I will throw a t*rd right in your lap! Now, go f*ck off. ========================= Bad language and manners for someone seeking free advice. |
Marina Question ,,,
Advice,,, not criticism
"Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 18:13:07 GMT, "Thomas Wentworth" wrote: If I ever come across your bow when I am sailing ,, watch out. I swear I will throw a t*rd right in your lap! Now, go f*ck off. ========================= Bad language and manners for someone seeking free advice. |
Marina Question ,,,
The people I really feel for are the poor black folks out on the barrier
islands. They have owned their land for generations but their property taxes have gone up to the point that they are being forced to sell to the developers. -- Glenn Ashmore I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com "Leanne" wrote in message ... "Larry" wrote in message ... "Roger Long" wrote in news:%DoCf.146409$XC4.144502 @twister.nyroc.rr.com: Everytime I read about these kinds of things, I think back to a quote in the newspaper from a Beaufort, SC, waterfront mansion owner. She didn't want that "floating trailer park" blocking her view she'd paid $1.2M for. Could it be they're trying to get rid of boating for these kinds of people? The tax bureaucrats are.... I live in Beaufort and the problem is that we have a transplant Yankee for a mayor. Btw, he is the one that got the bridge schedule change several years ago. So many people have come here because of the laid back charm. After a while they get bored and try to change it to the way they did it up north. I am a transplant, but have been here long enough to be naturalized Beaufortonian and can still see the beauty as it is. You are right about the tax bureaucrats. We lucked on this old cottage in an estate sale over 20 years ago. Because we are on a deep water creek, the taxes have been going up every year. The funny part is the house valuation seems to stay the same, but the land value has about quadrupled. Leanne |
Marina Question ,,,
Here in N. FL. its sometimes an adventure getting anything done on "One
o' them damn sailboats". I went to Carabelle, Fl to get my mast stepped. The woman told me "We aint never done that afore" so I asked about their insurance and remarkably thye had it. The mast steppers were a crew of 3 oyster shucker drop outs who musta given up cuz the oysters were smarter than them. They decided to sorta use the travel lift but couldnt figger it out so they just used its cross beam. They found two pieces of old rope lying round on the ground and tied em together, threw em over the cross beam, other end went to the bumper of on old truck painted with camo colors. The bumper was tied on with an equally ragged piece of rope. They tied the rope around the mast near the spreaders, revved up the truck so it belched oily blue smoke and slowly pulled it up the ramp and miraculously my mast rose to vertical. Cuz the only thing they destroyed was the VHF antenna I gave em each a tip and saw em all take off for the bar. I think it cost maybe $120.00. |
Marina Question ,,,
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Marina Question ,,,
Thomas Wentworth wrote:
Couldn't you anchor, or something? That is crazy! The anchorage there was full at the time of my arrival. |
Marina Question ,,,
I'm in the New England - those prices seem pretty good. A lot less than
I pay. I bet the actual bill would have been higher with the "extras". Face it Tom, nothing about owning a boat is inexpensive. Marinas - especially where it snows - are a tough business. A lot of expensive real estate and a lot of fixed costs have to be spread over too few good sailing days. I've never met a rich marina owner. I agree that you should get a really good and expensive boat. That's what I did. Then a $400 dollar mast stepping charge is only a tiny percentage of the boat's cost. It feels better that way! Hell - I didn't even blink at the $1500 shrink wrapping charge this winter. If you want to save money - charter. You can charter a beautiful Hinckley 42 for less than $5000 a week and pick it up in Southwest Harbor. At the end of the week just tie it up and let someone else clean the head and fix the broken radar. Carl |
Marina Question ,,,
Shrink Wrap? No thanks,,
I have "wraped" every boat I ever owned by myself. And they were just as well protected as "shrink wrap". $400 to step a mast? Nope, no way. Takes me about 15 minutes. Ain't about to pay $400 for 15 minutes. Heck, the guy who operates the crane down at the ship loading place will pull up the mast for $50. And he is a heck of a lot better at operating the crane than the dope at the overpriced marina. Hey,, you can throw your money where you want. Not me. "Carl" wrote in message ups.com... I'm in the New England - those prices seem pretty good. A lot less than I pay. I bet the actual bill would have been higher with the "extras". Face it Tom, nothing about owning a boat is inexpensive. Marinas - especially where it snows - are a tough business. A lot of expensive real estate and a lot of fixed costs have to be spread over too few good sailing days. I've never met a rich marina owner. I agree that you should get a really good and expensive boat. That's what I did. Then a $400 dollar mast stepping charge is only a tiny percentage of the boat's cost. It feels better that way! Hell - I didn't even blink at the $1500 shrink wrapping charge this winter. If you want to save money - charter. You can charter a beautiful Hinckley 42 for less than $5000 a week and pick it up in Southwest Harbor. At the end of the week just tie it up and let someone else clean the head and fix the broken radar. Carl |
Marina Question ,,,
Hi Tom,
I've never "wraped" a boat but I put on my own cover when I had a smaller boat.Nothing wrong with that. It's just a matter of valuing your time and having enough left over to sail. It's fine to try to sail on the cheap but you seem to not be having any fun ("brought to the point of absolute insanity" in your words). Take my mast - the one I can't step for $400. This thing is 70 ft with double spreaders, on a B&R rig. An in-mast furling main and two headsail rollers (Solent rig). It takes most of the day for me and a good rigger to assemble and tune this thing. Makes no economic or practical sense but I love every minute. When I get older I'll go back to something simpler. It will be cheaper but I'll sure miss having a big boat. I also never - absolutely never - calculate the cost per sailing day! Carl Thomas Wentworth wrote: Shrink Wrap? No thanks,, I have "wraped" every boat I ever owned by myself. And they were just as well protected as "shrink wrap". $400 to step a mast? Nope, no way. Takes me about 15 minutes. Ain't about to pay $400 for 15 minutes. Heck, the guy who operates the crane down at the ship loading place will pull up the mast for $50. And he is a heck of a lot better at operating the crane than the dope at the overpriced marina. Hey,, you can throw your money where you want. Not me. |
Marina Question ,,,
On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 08:43:18 -0500, Jeff wrote:
You should check around - you may be asking for something that the marina doesn't normally do. They may be quoting for renting a crane or towing the boat to another facility, or hiring a rigger. Or they may be quoting for both unstepping and stepping. Or they may just be expensive. Good point. Don't call a marina. They're basically property management companies. Call a boatyard or shipyard. If you're in New England, you're within a day's sail of some of the best boatyards in the world. Let your fingers do the walking... Or tell us where you are, and what kind of boat you have. Someone here is likely to have a recommendation for you. Matt O. |
Marina Question ,,,
On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 12:47:55 +0000, Roger Long wrote:
"DSK" wrote Do you mean that the tax laws have changed so as to reflect property usage? Yes, the referendum passed this fall and the legislature is working on implementation. In a state that usually shows unusual common sense, the change failed the first time around. It took a massive education effort to get enough people to realize that the coastline was effectively going to become part of Massachusetts and New Jersey if it didn't pass. It used to be that, every time a waterfront business watched a new house going up on a piece of vacant shoreline, they knew that their property taxes would shortly follow. This still won't prevent waterfront users from being priced out of obtaining property but it will help keep them from being forced off of what they have now. One nice thing about California is that property taxes are based on what you bought the property for, plus ~4% per year appreciation. This is how little old ladies can afford to keep their multi-million dollar homes. There's no way to stop rising real estate values, but limiting property tax and therefore fixed costs is how the little guy can stay in the game, instead of selling out to the super-rich and the corporations. New England is a wonderful place, but limits its own economic growth by taxation -- not just high taxes, but stupid taxes. I read recently that Maine has the highest overall taxes in the US. Matt O. |
Marina Question ,,,
On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 15:50:16 -0500, Glenn Ashmore wrote:
The people I really feel for are the poor black folks out on the barrier islands. They have owned their land for generations but their property taxes have gone up to the point that they are being forced to sell to the developers. This is sad, not just because it ruins these people's lives, but destroys a community and a culture. The same thing happened in Santa Fe, NM, when all the yuppies and whatnot started moving in. Matt O. |
Marina Question ,,,
Thomas Wentworth wrote:
I am re-entering the world of cruising. It has been a number of years. My base is New England. In the last few days I have been brought to the point of absolute insanity by two of the local marina's near me. Today, I called a marina to inquire how much it charged to step a mast. I explained to the woman on the phone that a boat hauling truck would be bringing my boat [ I don't own the boat yet, I was seeking the info so that if I make an offer I would know what the charges would be ] to the marina where it would be launched. At first she seemed evasive. She didn't seem to want to answer my question. She kept saying she was looking for her "paper". Finally, she said it would be $6 per foot of the boat when the boat was dropped off and another $6 per foot of the boat when the boat was put in the water. I asked, why are you charging twice. The truck is bringing the boat, it will go right in the water. She then said "you are upset by how much it cost". I tried to explain "I can't be upset since I never knew what the cost was to begin with". After she started telling me how I feel about issues I never asked her about, I asked what was the charge to step the mast. She said around $400 dollars. I almost fell over backwards. Then, I hung up the phone. Is this the way of the world in cruising? Have all the marina's become thieves? Most marinas here in the UK have a fixed charge for winter storage, water-to-water, and it assumes the mast will be left up whilst the boat is on hard standing. If you want the mast unstepped and re-stepped, using the marina staff only, it will probably cost you an additional £150, depending on size of course. On that basis, to simply step the mast, leaving it loosely supported, and assuming you, the owner, will do the tweaking and tuning, takes about 20 minutes plus the use of the crane, and I think about £50 would cover that. Ask the yard to set the mast up and rig it properly, and the cost could be a lot more, but very few owners would rely on the yard staff to do this to their satisfaction. Launching the boat from a trailer, and stepping the mast, assuming a 30-35 footer, is done on a "time and materials" basis, and my own experience of this is that assuming they have a substantial crane, and don't have to hire one, the whole job takes around 30 minutes with a competent crane man. On that basis, your $400 seems excessive, even allowing for depreciation of the equipment, crane etc. It would seem to me that a small boatyard would do a better job, more cheaply and more effectively. Dennis. |
Marina Question ,,,
Hey Matt ,,, did you hear that OJ Simpson is moving to Maine; yup, he wants
to live in a state with only one DNA. Hey Matt,,, what's the nicest thing you can say to your neighbor up in Maine? Nice Tooth. Hey Matt,,,, last week I was up around Bangor looking for a boat. I'm driving down this country road and I see a sign that says "Welcome to Bucktooth, why across the road when ya can go across the hall". ============================================== "Matt O'Toole" wrote in message g... On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 12:47:55 +0000, Roger Long wrote: "DSK" wrote Do you mean that the tax laws have changed so as to reflect property usage? Yes, the referendum passed this fall and the legislature is working on implementation. In a state that usually shows unusual common sense, the change failed the first time around. It took a massive education effort to get enough people to realize that the coastline was effectively going to become part of Massachusetts and New Jersey if it didn't pass. It used to be that, every time a waterfront business watched a new house going up on a piece of vacant shoreline, they knew that their property taxes would shortly follow. This still won't prevent waterfront users from being priced out of obtaining property but it will help keep them from being forced off of what they have now. One nice thing about California is that property taxes are based on what you bought the property for, plus ~4% per year appreciation. This is how little old ladies can afford to keep their multi-million dollar homes. There's no way to stop rising real estate values, but limiting property tax and therefore fixed costs is how the little guy can stay in the game, instead of selling out to the super-rich and the corporations. New England is a wonderful place, but limits its own economic growth by taxation -- not just high taxes, but stupid taxes. I read recently that Maine has the highest overall taxes in the US. Matt O. |
Marina Question ,,,
Carl,,,, that boat you own... it is a SHIP!
For that , I would pay $400 dollars! "Carl" wrote in message oups.com... Hi Tom, I've never "wraped" a boat but I put on my own cover when I had a smaller boat.Nothing wrong with that. It's just a matter of valuing your time and having enough left over to sail. It's fine to try to sail on the cheap but you seem to not be having any fun ("brought to the point of absolute insanity" in your words). Take my mast - the one I can't step for $400. This thing is 70 ft with double spreaders, on a B&R rig. An in-mast furling main and two headsail rollers (Solent rig). It takes most of the day for me and a good rigger to assemble and tune this thing. Makes no economic or practical sense but I love every minute. When I get older I'll go back to something simpler. It will be cheaper but I'll sure miss having a big boat. I also never - absolutely never - calculate the cost per sailing day! Carl Thomas Wentworth wrote: Shrink Wrap? No thanks,, I have "wraped" every boat I ever owned by myself. And they were just as well protected as "shrink wrap". $400 to step a mast? Nope, no way. Takes me about 15 minutes. Ain't about to pay $400 for 15 minutes. Heck, the guy who operates the crane down at the ship loading place will pull up the mast for $50. And he is a heck of a lot better at operating the crane than the dope at the overpriced marina. Hey,, you can throw your money where you want. Not me. |
Marina Question ,,,
It used to be that, every time a waterfront business watched a new house
going up on a piece of vacant shoreline, they knew that their property taxes would shortly follow. It's not just waterfront, it's everywhere. Matt O'Toole wrote: One nice thing about California is that property taxes are based on what you bought the property for, plus ~4% per year appreciation. That's nice, only 4% jump in taxes every year? Do the math, your taxes can double in less than 20 years. North Carolina is not a particularly high-tax state, although they do impose property tax on cars, boats, trailers, etc; and our county (run by developers for developers) has undertaken a huge debt load. The taxes on our modest suburban house have more than doubled in the past twelve years. There's no way to stop rising real estate values, No, the market takes care of that. ... but limiting property tax and therefore fixed costs is how the little guy can stay in the game, instead of selling out to the super-rich and the corporations. This is also taken care of by the market, in the long run. However, the long run doesn't do any good whatever for people trying to live decently and perhaps raise families. IMHO this is one reason why so many communities are closing offa anchorages too, after going to great lengths to wring big bucks from their suckers... err I mean citizens, they don't want anybody to hang around breathing their air unless they can be squeezed too. Regards Doug King |
Marina Question ,,,
There's no way to stop rising real estate values
i know it seems like a small thing, but there is a difference between rising real estate "values" and rising real estate "prices". an old ladies house was built as shelter for the people that live in it, it's value is relatively unchanged. in understanding the value of a thing, price is one of it's least interesting qualities. like warren buffett said ... "price is what you pay. value is what you get". |
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