Marina Question ,,,
 

Shrink Wrap? No thanks,,

I have "wraped" every boat I ever owned by myself. And they were just as
well protected as "shrink wrap".

$400 to step a mast? Nope, no way. Takes me about 15 minutes. Ain't about
to pay $400 for 15 minutes.

Heck, the guy who operates the crane down at the ship loading place will
pull up the mast for $50.

And he is a heck of a lot better at operating the crane than the dope at the
overpriced marina.

Hey,, you can throw your money where you want.

Not me.


"Carl" wrote in message
ups.com...
I'm in the New England - those prices seem pretty good. A lot less than
I pay. I bet the actual bill would have been higher with the "extras".
Face it Tom, nothing about owning a boat is inexpensive. Marinas -
especially where it snows - are a tough business. A lot of expensive
real estate and a lot of fixed costs have to be spread over too few
good sailing days. I've never met a rich marina owner.

I agree that you should get a really good and expensive boat. That's
what I did. Then a $400 dollar mast stepping charge is only a tiny
percentage of the boat's cost. It feels better that way! Hell - I
didn't even blink at the $1500 shrink wrapping charge this winter.

If you want to save money - charter. You can charter a beautiful
Hinckley 42 for less than $5000 a week and pick it up in Southwest
Harbor. At the end of the week just tie it up and let someone else
clean the head and fix the broken radar.

Carl

Marina Question ,,,
 

Hi Tom,

I've never "wraped" a boat but I put on my own cover when I had a
smaller boat.Nothing wrong with that. It's just a matter of valuing
your time and having enough left over to sail. It's fine to try to sail
on the cheap but you seem to not be having any fun ("brought to the
point of absolute insanity" in your words).

Take my mast - the one I can't step for $400. This thing is 70 ft with
double spreaders, on a B&R rig. An in-mast furling main and two
headsail rollers (Solent rig). It takes most of the day for me and a
good rigger to assemble and tune this thing. Makes no economic or
practical sense but I love every minute. When I get older I'll go back
to something simpler. It will be cheaper but I'll sure miss having a
big boat.

I also never - absolutely never - calculate the cost per sailing day!

Carl

Thomas Wentworth wrote:
Shrink Wrap? No thanks,,

I have "wraped" every boat I ever owned by myself. And they were just as
well protected as "shrink wrap".

$400 to step a mast? Nope, no way. Takes me about 15 minutes. Ain't about
to pay $400 for 15 minutes.

Heck, the guy who operates the crane down at the ship loading place will
pull up the mast for $50.

And he is a heck of a lot better at operating the crane than the dope at the
overpriced marina.

Hey,, you can throw your money where you want.

Not me.

Marina Question ,,,
 

On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 08:43:18 -0500, Jeff wrote:

You should check around - you may be asking for something that the marina
doesn't normally do. They may be quoting for renting a crane or towing
the boat to another facility, or hiring a rigger. Or they may be quoting
for both unstepping and stepping. Or they may just be expensive.

Good point. Don't call a marina. They're basically property management
companies. Call a boatyard or shipyard.

If you're in New England, you're within a day's sail of some of the best
boatyards in the world. Let your fingers do the walking...

Or tell us where you are, and what kind of boat you have. Someone here
is likely to have a recommendation for you.

Matt O.

Marina Question ,,,
 

On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 12:47:55 +0000, Roger Long wrote:

"DSK" wrote
Do you mean that the tax laws have changed so as to reflect property
usage?

Yes, the referendum passed this fall and the legislature is working on
implementation. In a state that usually shows unusual common sense, the
change failed the first time around. It took a massive education effort
to get enough people to realize that the coastline was effectively going
to become part of Massachusetts and New Jersey if it didn't pass.

It used to be that, every time a waterfront business watched a new house
going up on a piece of vacant shoreline, they knew that their property
taxes would shortly follow. This still won't prevent waterfront users
from being priced out of obtaining property but it will help keep them
from being forced off of what they have now.

One nice thing about California is that property taxes are based on what
you bought the property for, plus ~4% per year appreciation. This is how
little old ladies can afford to keep their multi-million dollar homes.

There's no way to stop rising real estate values, but limiting property
tax and therefore fixed costs is how the little guy can stay in the
game, instead of selling out to the super-rich and the corporations.

New England is a wonderful place, but limits its own economic growth by
taxation -- not just high taxes, but stupid taxes. I read
recently that Maine has the highest overall taxes in the US.

Matt O.

Marina Question ,,,
 

On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 15:50:16 -0500, Glenn Ashmore wrote:

The people I really feel for are the poor black folks out on the barrier
islands. They have owned their land for generations but their property
taxes have gone up to the point that they are being forced to sell to the
developers.

This is sad, not just because it ruins these people's lives, but
destroys a community and a culture.

The same thing happened in Santa Fe, NM, when all the yuppies and whatnot
started moving in.

Matt O.

Marina Question ,,,
 

Thomas Wentworth wrote:
I am re-entering the world of cruising. It has been a number of
years. My base is New England.

In the last few days I have been brought to the point of absolute
insanity by two of the local marina's near me.

Today, I called a marina to inquire how much it charged to step a
mast. I explained to the woman on the phone that a boat hauling
truck would be bringing my boat [ I don't own the boat yet, I was
seeking the info so that if I make an offer I would know what the
charges would be ] to the marina where it would be launched.

At first she seemed evasive. She didn't seem to want to answer my
question. She kept saying she was looking for her "paper". Finally,
she said it would be $6 per foot of the boat when the boat was
dropped off and another $6 per foot of the boat when the boat was put
in the water. I asked, why are you charging twice. The truck is
bringing the boat, it will go right in the water. She then said "you
are upset by how much it cost". I tried to explain "I can't be upset
since I never knew what the cost was to begin with".

After she started telling me how I feel about issues I never asked her
about, I asked what was the charge to step the mast. She said around
$400 dollars. I almost fell over backwards.

Then, I hung up the phone.

Is this the way of the world in cruising? Have all the marina's
become thieves?

Most marinas here in the UK have a fixed charge for winter storage,
water-to-water, and it assumes the mast will be left up whilst the boat is
on hard standing.

If you want the mast unstepped and re-stepped, using the marina staff only,
it will probably cost you an additional £150, depending on size of course.
On that basis, to simply step the mast, leaving it loosely supported, and
assuming you, the owner, will do the tweaking and tuning, takes about 20
minutes plus the use of the crane, and I think about £50 would cover that.
Ask the yard to set the mast up and rig it properly, and the cost could be a
lot more, but very few owners would rely on the yard staff to do this to
their satisfaction.

Launching the boat from a trailer, and stepping the mast, assuming a 30-35
footer, is done on a "time and materials" basis, and my own experience of
this is that assuming they have a substantial crane, and don't have to hire
one, the whole job takes around 30 minutes with a competent crane man. On
that basis, your $400 seems excessive, even allowing for depreciation of the
equipment, crane etc.

It would seem to me that a small boatyard would do a better job, more
cheaply and more effectively.

Dennis.

Marina Question ,,,
 

Hey Matt ,,, did you hear that OJ Simpson is moving to Maine; yup, he wants
to live in a state with only one DNA.

Hey Matt,,, what's the nicest thing you can say to your neighbor up in
Maine? Nice Tooth.

Hey Matt,,,, last week I was up around Bangor looking for a boat. I'm
driving down this country road and I see a sign that says "Welcome to
Bucktooth, why across the road when ya can go across the hall".



==============================================


"Matt O'Toole" wrote in message
g...
On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 12:47:55 +0000, Roger Long wrote:

"DSK" wrote
Do you mean that the tax laws have changed so as to reflect property
usage?

Yes, the referendum passed this fall and the legislature is working on
implementation. In a state that usually shows unusual common sense, the
change failed the first time around. It took a massive education effort
to get enough people to realize that the coastline was effectively going
to become part of Massachusetts and New Jersey if it didn't pass.

It used to be that, every time a waterfront business watched a new house
going up on a piece of vacant shoreline, they knew that their property
taxes would shortly follow. This still won't prevent waterfront users
from being priced out of obtaining property but it will help keep them
from being forced off of what they have now.

One nice thing about California is that property taxes are based on what
you bought the property for, plus ~4% per year appreciation. This is how
little old ladies can afford to keep their multi-million dollar homes.

There's no way to stop rising real estate values, but limiting property
tax and therefore fixed costs is how the little guy can stay in the
game, instead of selling out to the super-rich and the corporations.

New England is a wonderful place, but limits its own economic growth by
taxation -- not just high taxes, but stupid taxes. I read
recently that Maine has the highest overall taxes in the US.

Matt O.

Marina Question ,,,
 

Carl,,,, that boat you own... it is a SHIP!

For that , I would pay $400 dollars!



"Carl" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi Tom,

I've never "wraped" a boat but I put on my own cover when I had a
smaller boat.Nothing wrong with that. It's just a matter of valuing
your time and having enough left over to sail. It's fine to try to sail
on the cheap but you seem to not be having any fun ("brought to the
point of absolute insanity" in your words).

Take my mast - the one I can't step for $400. This thing is 70 ft with
double spreaders, on a B&R rig. An in-mast furling main and two
headsail rollers (Solent rig). It takes most of the day for me and a
good rigger to assemble and tune this thing. Makes no economic or
practical sense but I love every minute. When I get older I'll go back
to something simpler. It will be cheaper but I'll sure miss having a
big boat.

I also never - absolutely never - calculate the cost per sailing day!

Carl

Thomas Wentworth wrote:
Shrink Wrap? No thanks,,

I have "wraped" every boat I ever owned by myself. And they were just as
well protected as "shrink wrap".

$400 to step a mast? Nope, no way. Takes me about 15 minutes. Ain't
about
to pay $400 for 15 minutes.

Heck, the guy who operates the crane down at the ship loading place will
pull up the mast for $50.

And he is a heck of a lot better at operating the crane than the dope at
the
overpriced marina.

Hey,, you can throw your money where you want.

Not me.

Marina Question ,,,
 

It used to be that, every time a waterfront business watched a new house
going up on a piece of vacant shoreline, they knew that their property
taxes would shortly follow.

It's not just waterfront, it's everywhere.



Matt O'Toole wrote:
One nice thing about California is that property taxes are based on what
you bought the property for, plus ~4% per year appreciation.

That's nice, only 4% jump in taxes every year?

Do the math, your taxes can double in less than 20 years.

North Carolina is not a particularly high-tax state,
although they do impose property tax on cars, boats,
trailers, etc; and our county (run by developers for
developers) has undertaken a huge debt load. The taxes on
our modest suburban house have more than doubled in the past
twelve years.


There's no way to stop rising real estate values,

No, the market takes care of that.

... but limiting property
tax and therefore fixed costs is how the little guy can stay in the
game, instead of selling out to the super-rich and the corporations.

This is also taken care of by the market, in the long run.
However, the long run doesn't do any good whatever for
people trying to live decently and perhaps raise families.

IMHO this is one reason why so many communities are closing
offa anchorages too, after going to great lengths to wring
big bucks from their suckers... err I mean citizens, they
don't want anybody to hang around breathing their air unless
they can be squeezed too.

Regards
Doug King

Marina Question ,,,
 

There's no way to stop rising real estate values

i know it seems like a small thing, but there is a difference between
rising real estate "values" and rising real estate "prices". an old
ladies house was built as shelter for the people that live in it, it's
value is relatively unchanged. in understanding the value of a thing,
price is one of it's least interesting qualities. like warren buffett
said ... "price is what you pay. value is what you get".