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#81
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Why do people buy cruising catamarans ?
boatgeek wrote:
Going to the original question, my family and I have been living aboard cruising catamarans since 1996. First a PDQ 36 and now a St Francis 44. This question comes up a lot, so I'm going to answer it as fully as I can because I believe it's a good question that is sometimes incompletely answered. *Speed. Our St Francis will do around 8 knots in 11 knots of wind, at 15 knots of wind we break into double digits. Under power we can go over 10 knots. There are faster monohulls out there, but our boat has 3 heads, a galley with 9 ft of counterspace and a 3 burner stove, an massive arch with a dingy hanging off it. We're not trying to break speed records, but it's a good performing boat. This is without flying a chute. *Stability. I don't see it actually from a comfort point of view as much as safety. If the boat doesn't rotate 45 degrees because of fluke wind shift it means my wife and son don't get thrown around like rag dolls. *N+1. This is a geek term. It means that most systems are redundant. Two motors, two fuel tanks connecting the motors, two water tanks and two water pumps, two seperate battery banks, etc, etc. What this means in practical terms is you can have an engine overheat and still make 6 knots on the remaining engine while CHOOSING where you want to repair the fault, rather than having to do it immediately. That's a big deal when trying to fight your way into a narrow port entrance in a gale directly against the wind. Been through that particular scenario several times. *Positive bouyancy. I know quite a few different PDQ 36's out there, and one lost both of it's keels being up on a reef. Another had it's transom ripped off by a boat, one crashed it's bow against a bulkhead 3 feet back, and my actual boat had at one time a 2 ft hole smashed into her from a race (previous owner!!) on her starboard side. None sank. All are sailing now. *Privacy with guests. It's nice having guests over, we have them often. But they are in a seperate hull, quite on their own. It's the equivalent of having them in a boat one slip over. It makes having guests over twice as fun. *Aft Arch. We can and do carry a large RIB ready to go at a moments notice with 4 175 watt solar panels. Having a nice fat transom makes that possible. While cruising non of the 5 monohulls we cruised with would even bother launching their dingy's because they knew we could be over, pick them up and have them to the beach before they could get their own dingy ready for the water. That translates also in being able to address a problem quickly underway. I can stop and launch a dingy to assist another boat in just 3 or 4 minutes. *large wide decks. I can go up forward in a hurricane with a spare anchor in my hand and stick to the middle of the boat and know that I wont go over the side. I can go up forward in any conditions (but I do clip onto a jack line) and know that I have 10 ft of clearance between myself and the side of the boat. That's a huge safety issue to me and my wife. I saw one artical about a monohull sailor who'd been clippen into a jackline, fell overboard from the bow and was dragged in the water for far too long. That can't happen to me, I can't fall on a 6 ft tether 10 ft from the middle to the side of the boat. *Shallow draft. Every tropical storm or hurricane that I've been in I could head into a hurricane hole inaccessible to most monohulls. The shallow draft anchorage also means that I typically can go to a close beach with my dingy in shallow protected water. Big issue there that no one seems to realize. In Georgetown in the bahamas I was able to anchor in a huge storm in a very small protected anchorage right outside town in 4 feet of water. No one else could get into town, I could simply row a few feet to the beach and walk in. *Good visibility from inside. I can on the settee, warm and snug at an anchorage, and look out and see what boats are breaking free from a storm. Sitting in your cockpit during a storm as an anchor watch is relatively uncomfortable, and many people therefore don't do it as much as they should and the first sign of a problem is the thud of a boat hitting them that's broken free. *Cost. Our St Francis has the space of a 50 ft mono, but not the costs. Price per foot may be greater on most cat's then most monohulls, but price per ft of interior living space is often less. *twin short keels. It allows us to "walk" off a beach and easily kedge ourselves back into the water should we drag onto the shore (ok, not too proud to admit that). But imagine having dragged anchor in the middle of the night. In a monohull you'd be woken up by the fact they you are lying completely on your side with waves threatening to wash into your cockpit and down the companionway. At best, you would call sea tow. I woke up, perfectly upright, realized the soft mud didn't hold my anchor, and lowered the dingy and kedged myself off the bar in about 15 minutes. My wife prepared breakfast while I did that. *Most catamaran thru hulls are above the waterline. I've seen too many monohulls sink because a hose fitting for their sinks came loose during the night. I've also had my hose fittings also come loose on my galley sink drain, and had to tighten them again. That's it. No water rushing in, no panics. Many monohulls have a dozen or more thru hulls. I have less than half of their below water thru hulls, and were a thru hull to come loose, it's not as low in the water because the water intakes don't have to be extra low to compensate for heeling. That means far less water pressure, therefore less water coming in, and my bilge pumps can easily keep up. Even if they couldn't watertight bulkheads would prevent it from spreading very far and worse case after around 2 ft the positive flotation in the bow and stern would prevent the boat from going any further down. Not nice, but it wouldn't sink. *Capsizing - Some believe that the monohull ability to heel to dump a gust of wind gives them an advantage because the catamaran can't heel. True, cat's don't heel. We accelerate. That's the way catamarans have the same "pressure valve" for dumping unexpected gusts, we can't heel, therefore the force is directed into motion forward. That's the safety valve. I've been in the gulf stream in November, in large waves and trade winds down in the caribbean, I go fast. While going fast I can take my time and reef the sails without worrying about falling over the rails. I think the reason this keeps coming up is that every serious cruiser in a monohull has had a knock down and that fear is very present in their minds. I've been in the same wind gusts on a monohull and a catamaran. The monohull was knocked down and then righted itself, the catamaran just went faster. We do tend to compensate for this by sailing more by the numbers than a monohull would (reef at 20 knots, reef again at 30 knots, even if it feels completely under control). I hope this helps some who are looking at catamarans. Almost every reason I have isn't due to convenience, it's due to safety. Cheers, Doug and Cindy and Zach St Francis 44 Annapolis, MD Great post! Very informative. Thanks, Gaz |
#82
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Why do people buy cruising catamarans ?
On 14 Jan 2006 21:49:36 -0800, "boatgeek"
wrote: I hope this helps some who are looking at catamarans. Almost every reason I have isn't due to convenience, it's due to safety. That was quite informative. Thank you. R. |
#83
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Why do people buy cruising catamarans ?
boatgeek wrote: *Speed. Our St Francis will do around 8 knots in 11 knots of wind, at 15 knots of wind we break into double digits. No arguement there, multis go faster because they are not displacment hulls. *Stability. I don't see it actually from a comfort point of view as much as safety. If the boat doesn't rotate 45 degrees because of fluke wind shift it means my wife and son don't get thrown around like rag dolls. Strong winds do not suddenly shift like that. You can get that in light airs and then such an effect is minimal on the boat. Of course, an accidental jig could cause some problems, but we won't address that. *Positive bouyancy. This could be incorporated into a monohull, if it was a high priority objective. . I can stop and launch a dingy to assist another boat in just 3 or 4 minutes. I tow my dinghy behind the boat, so launching is not an issue. *large wide decks. A possible advantage. *Shallow draft. This is a definite advantage for places like the Bahamas. *Good visibility from inside. Monohulls have windows, don't they? *twin short keels. It allows us to "walk" off a beach and easily kedge ourselves back into the water should we drag onto the shore (ok, not too proud to admit that). But imagine having dragged anchor in the middle of the night. In a monohull you'd be woken up by the fact they you are lying completely on your side with waves threatening to wash into your cockpit and down the companionway. On the contrary, you get woken up when your keel starts bumping on the bottom, and you don't go over, you just sit where you are, aground. You are in an anchorage where despite strong winds, you should not get big waves. *Most catamaran thru hulls are above the waterline. I've seen too many monohulls sink because a hose fitting for their sinks came loose during the night. I've also had my hose fittings also come loose on my galley sink drain, and had to tighten them again. That's it. No water rushing in, no panics. This kind of design is not peculiar to multihulls. My monohull has all it's thru hulls below the water line. Many monohulls have a dozen or more thru hulls. I have less than half of their below water thru hulls, and were a thru hull to come loose, it's not as low in the water because the water intakes don't have to be extra low to compensate for heeling. Monohulls do not require more thru hulls than multihulls. *Capsizing - Some believe that the monohull ability to heel to dump a gust of wind gives them an advantage because the catamaran can't heel. True, cat's don't heel. We accelerate. There is a limit to how fast your catamaran will go. I have seen pictures of catamarans with one hull lifted out of the water. A strong enough wind is going to blow it over. All else aside, a catamaran has two basic STABLE configurations, upright and upside down. A monohull has only one STABLE configuration, upright. That's the way catamarans have the same "pressure valve" for dumping unexpected gusts, we can't heel, therefore the force is directed into motion forward. That's the safety valve. When your upwind hull comes out of the water, there goes your safety valve. Wave action can contribute to this problem. I can judge this problem easily on a monohull by the amount of heel. On a catamaran, you have to be a very good judge of speed, or otherwise you will have little warning, except for the upwind hull coming up, and by then, it may be too late. I've been in the gulf stream in November, in large waves and trade winds down in the caribbean, I go fast. I think you have been very lucky up to now. While going fast I can take my time and reef the sails without worrying about falling over the rails. I think the reason this keeps coming up is that every serious cruiser in a monohull has had a knock down and that fear is very present in their minds. The serious monohull sailors keep their sail plan under control by reefing, heaving to, or going bare pole, so most of them don't experience knock downs. I've been in the same wind gusts on a monohull and a catamaran. The monohull was knocked down and then righted itself, the catamaran just went faster. We do tend to compensate for this by sailing more by the numbers than a monohull would (reef at 20 knots, reef again at 30 knots, even if it feels completely under control). I hope this helps some who are looking at catamarans. Almost every reason I have isn't due to convenience, it's due to safety. I agree that multihulls are great for speed and shallow draft. When it comes to safety, I completely dissagree. I would not try any remote offshore cruising with a catamaran. The previous postings about losing the mast are not the prevalent case. More often, the mast is mostly intact, and sailing can resume. Sherwin D. Cheers, Doug and Cindy and Zach St Francis 44 Annapolis, MD |
#84
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Why do people buy cruising catamarans ?
"sherwindu" wrote in message
... *Stability. I don't see it actually from a comfort point of view as much as safety. If the boat doesn't rotate 45 degrees because of fluke wind shift it means my wife and son don't get thrown around like rag dolls. Strong winds do not suddenly shift like that. You can get that in light airs and then such an effect is minimal on the boat. Of course, an accidental jig could cause some problems, but we won't address that. They do out here. We have a spot on the bay called Hurricane Gulch. Happens there all the time. *Positive bouyancy. This could be incorporated into a monohull, if it was a high priority objective. . I can stop and launch a dingy to assist another boat in just 3 or 4 minutes. I tow my dinghy behind the boat, so launching is not an issue. On long distance cruises?? That's fine for a couple of hours, but you can run into real problems with a dinghy under tow, not to mention slowing the boat. *large wide decks. A possible advantage. I would say huge advantage. It's much harder to accidentally fall off. *Shallow draft. This is a definite advantage for places like the Bahamas. Or any place you want to get close in. *Good visibility from inside. Monohulls have windows, don't they? Sure, but they aren't panoramic. He said "good visibility." :-) *twin short keels. It allows us to "walk" off a beach and easily kedge ourselves back into the water should we drag onto the shore (ok, not too proud to admit that). But imagine having dragged anchor in the middle of the night. In a monohull you'd be woken up by the fact they you are lying completely on your side with waves threatening to wash into your cockpit and down the companionway. On the contrary, you get woken up when your keel starts bumping on the bottom, and you don't go over, you just sit where you are, aground. You Well, possibly true, but I'd rather deal with the situation in an upright position than on my ear. Deliberately running aground is also an option to get a decent night's sleep. It's not great for the bottom paint, but it's much more of an option. We had to do that in Belize.. that or sail all night (which the charter company specifically told us not to do, due to fishing pots and small fishing boats with no lights). are in an anchorage where despite strong winds, you should not get big waves. *Most catamaran thru hulls are above the waterline. I've seen too many monohulls sink because a hose fitting for their sinks came loose during the night. I've also had my hose fittings also come loose on my galley sink drain, and had to tighten them again. That's it. No water rushing in, no panics. This kind of design is not peculiar to multihulls. My monohull has all it's thru hulls below the water line. I think that's what he said... :-) *Capsizing - Some believe that the monohull ability to heel to dump a gust of wind gives them an advantage because the catamaran can't heel. True, cat's don't heel. We accelerate. There is a limit to how fast your catamaran will go. I have seen pictures of catamarans with one hull lifted out of the water. A strong enough wind is going to blow it over. Of course there are limits. There are also limits to how much pressure your hatch boards can take when bording water. The point is that instead of heeling, the multi sails faster. All else aside, a catamaran has two basic STABLE configurations, upright and upside down. A monohull has only one STABLE configuration, upright. Nope. It's got two. Upright on the top and upright on the bottom. :-) That's the way catamarans have the same "pressure valve" for dumping unexpected gusts, we can't heel, therefore the force is directed into motion forward. That's the safety valve. When your upwind hull comes out of the water, there goes your safety valve. Wave action can contribute to this problem. I can judge this problem easily on a monohull by the amount of heel. On a catamaran, you have to be a very good judge of speed, or otherwise you will have little warning, except for the upwind hull coming up, and by then, it may be too late. True, especially on crusing cats. However, this an extremely rare occurance and just a bit of careful thought will prevent it. I've been in the gulf stream in November, in large waves and trade winds down in the caribbean, I go fast. I think you have been very lucky up to now. I think he's probably very skilled. While going fast I can take my time and reef the sails without worrying about falling over the rails. I think the reason this keeps coming up is that every serious cruiser in a monohull has had a knock down and that fear is very present in their minds. The serious monohull sailors keep their sail plan under control by reefing, heaving to, or going bare pole, so most of them don't experience knock downs. Absolutely true! ... as should all sailors. I've been in the same wind gusts on a monohull and a catamaran. The monohull was knocked down and then righted itself, the catamaran just went faster. We do tend to compensate for this by sailing more by the numbers than a monohull would (reef at 20 knots, reef again at 30 knots, even if it feels completely under control). I hope this helps some who are looking at catamarans. Almost every reason I have isn't due to convenience, it's due to safety. I agree that multihulls are great for speed and shallow draft. When it comes to safety, I completely dissagree. I would not try any remote offshore cruising with a catamaran. You would be in a vocal majority, ill-informed as they are. Many, many multis have crossed oceans even in terrible conditions and had no problems at all. Same is true of monos. Both types of vessel can and are seakindly in extreme conditions. One of the jobs of an experienced skipper is to avoid extreme conditions. The previous postings about losing the mast are not the prevalent case. More often, the mast is mostly intact, and sailing can resume. More often? Not sure I agree. If you have sails up and the boat turtles, I think there's a good probability you're going to lose your rig. All the time? No. But a significant amount of time to make it common. |
#85
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Why do people buy cruising catamarans ?
Well said, and a great post from boatgeek.
Another important consideration is the effect of heeling and rolling on crew performance. The U.S. naval study of this by JB Hadler and TH Sarchin (see The Cruising Multihull by Chris White) found that a sustained 10 degree roll angle reduced ability to perform routine tasks by as much as 50%! sherwindu has contributed one important fact to this discussion when in his first post he stated "I have never even sailed on a cat myself". Cheers "Capt. JG" wrote in message ... "sherwindu" wrote in message ... *Stability. I don't see it actually from a comfort point of view as much as safety. If the boat doesn't rotate 45 degrees because of fluke wind shift it means my wife and son don't get thrown around like rag dolls. Strong winds do not suddenly shift like that. You can get that in light airs and then such an effect is minimal on the boat. Of course, an accidental jig could cause some problems, but we won't address that. They do out here. We have a spot on the bay called Hurricane Gulch. Happens there all the time. *Positive bouyancy. This could be incorporated into a monohull, if it was a high priority objective. . I can stop and launch a dingy to assist another boat in just 3 or 4 minutes. I tow my dinghy behind the boat, so launching is not an issue. On long distance cruises?? That's fine for a couple of hours, but you can run into real problems with a dinghy under tow, not to mention slowing the boat. *large wide decks. A possible advantage. I would say huge advantage. It's much harder to accidentally fall off. *Shallow draft. This is a definite advantage for places like the Bahamas. Or any place you want to get close in. *Good visibility from inside. Monohulls have windows, don't they? Sure, but they aren't panoramic. He said "good visibility." :-) *twin short keels. It allows us to "walk" off a beach and easily kedge ourselves back into the water should we drag onto the shore (ok, not too proud to admit that). But imagine having dragged anchor in the middle of the night. In a monohull you'd be woken up by the fact they you are lying completely on your side with waves threatening to wash into your cockpit and down the companionway. On the contrary, you get woken up when your keel starts bumping on the bottom, and you don't go over, you just sit where you are, aground. You Well, possibly true, but I'd rather deal with the situation in an upright position than on my ear. Deliberately running aground is also an option to get a decent night's sleep. It's not great for the bottom paint, but it's much more of an option. We had to do that in Belize.. that or sail all night (which the charter company specifically told us not to do, due to fishing pots and small fishing boats with no lights). are in an anchorage where despite strong winds, you should not get big waves. *Most catamaran thru hulls are above the waterline. I've seen too many monohulls sink because a hose fitting for their sinks came loose during the night. I've also had my hose fittings also come loose on my galley sink drain, and had to tighten them again. That's it. No water rushing in, no panics. This kind of design is not peculiar to multihulls. My monohull has all it's thru hulls below the water line. I think that's what he said... :-) *Capsizing - Some believe that the monohull ability to heel to dump a gust of wind gives them an advantage because the catamaran can't heel. True, cat's don't heel. We accelerate. There is a limit to how fast your catamaran will go. I have seen pictures of catamarans with one hull lifted out of the water. A strong enough wind is going to blow it over. Of course there are limits. There are also limits to how much pressure your hatch boards can take when bording water. The point is that instead of heeling, the multi sails faster. All else aside, a catamaran has two basic STABLE configurations, upright and upside down. A monohull has only one STABLE configuration, upright. Nope. It's got two. Upright on the top and upright on the bottom. :-) That's the way catamarans have the same "pressure valve" for dumping unexpected gusts, we can't heel, therefore the force is directed into motion forward. That's the safety valve. When your upwind hull comes out of the water, there goes your safety valve. Wave action can contribute to this problem. I can judge this problem easily on a monohull by the amount of heel. On a catamaran, you have to be a very good judge of speed, or otherwise you will have little warning, except for the upwind hull coming up, and by then, it may be too late. True, especially on crusing cats. However, this an extremely rare occurance and just a bit of careful thought will prevent it. I've been in the gulf stream in November, in large waves and trade winds down in the caribbean, I go fast. I think you have been very lucky up to now. I think he's probably very skilled. While going fast I can take my time and reef the sails without worrying about falling over the rails. I think the reason this keeps coming up is that every serious cruiser in a monohull has had a knock down and that fear is very present in their minds. The serious monohull sailors keep their sail plan under control by reefing, heaving to, or going bare pole, so most of them don't experience knock downs. Absolutely true! ... as should all sailors. I've been in the same wind gusts on a monohull and a catamaran. The monohull was knocked down and then righted itself, the catamaran just went faster. We do tend to compensate for this by sailing more by the numbers than a monohull would (reef at 20 knots, reef again at 30 knots, even if it feels completely under control). I hope this helps some who are looking at catamarans. Almost every reason I have isn't due to convenience, it's due to safety. I agree that multihulls are great for speed and shallow draft. When it comes to safety, I completely dissagree. I would not try any remote offshore cruising with a catamaran. You would be in a vocal majority, ill-informed as they are. Many, many multis have crossed oceans even in terrible conditions and had no problems at all. Same is true of monos. Both types of vessel can and are seakindly in extreme conditions. One of the jobs of an experienced skipper is to avoid extreme conditions. The previous postings about losing the mast are not the prevalent case. More often, the mast is mostly intact, and sailing can resume. More often? Not sure I agree. If you have sails up and the boat turtles, I think there's a good probability you're going to lose your rig. All the time? No. But a significant amount of time to make it common. |
#86
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Why do people buy cruising catamarans ?
I can only speak from the experience of being on a heeling boat for 1/2
month at a time. It gets old pretty fast... everything needs to be nailed down or, as I tell my students, it will end up safely on the floor. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Paddy Malone" wrote in message ... Well said, and a great post from boatgeek. Another important consideration is the effect of heeling and rolling on crew performance. The U.S. naval study of this by JB Hadler and TH Sarchin (see The Cruising Multihull by Chris White) found that a sustained 10 degree roll angle reduced ability to perform routine tasks by as much as 50%! sherwindu has contributed one important fact to this discussion when in his first post he stated "I have never even sailed on a cat myself". Cheers "Capt. JG" wrote in message ... "sherwindu" wrote in message ... *Stability. I don't see it actually from a comfort point of view as much as safety. If the boat doesn't rotate 45 degrees because of fluke wind shift it means my wife and son don't get thrown around like rag dolls. Strong winds do not suddenly shift like that. You can get that in light airs and then such an effect is minimal on the boat. Of course, an accidental jig could cause some problems, but we won't address that. They do out here. We have a spot on the bay called Hurricane Gulch. Happens there all the time. *Positive bouyancy. This could be incorporated into a monohull, if it was a high priority objective. . I can stop and launch a dingy to assist another boat in just 3 or 4 minutes. I tow my dinghy behind the boat, so launching is not an issue. On long distance cruises?? That's fine for a couple of hours, but you can run into real problems with a dinghy under tow, not to mention slowing the boat. *large wide decks. A possible advantage. I would say huge advantage. It's much harder to accidentally fall off. *Shallow draft. This is a definite advantage for places like the Bahamas. Or any place you want to get close in. *Good visibility from inside. Monohulls have windows, don't they? Sure, but they aren't panoramic. He said "good visibility." :-) *twin short keels. It allows us to "walk" off a beach and easily kedge ourselves back into the water should we drag onto the shore (ok, not too proud to admit that). But imagine having dragged anchor in the middle of the night. In a monohull you'd be woken up by the fact they you are lying completely on your side with waves threatening to wash into your cockpit and down the companionway. On the contrary, you get woken up when your keel starts bumping on the bottom, and you don't go over, you just sit where you are, aground. You Well, possibly true, but I'd rather deal with the situation in an upright position than on my ear. Deliberately running aground is also an option to get a decent night's sleep. It's not great for the bottom paint, but it's much more of an option. We had to do that in Belize.. that or sail all night (which the charter company specifically told us not to do, due to fishing pots and small fishing boats with no lights). are in an anchorage where despite strong winds, you should not get big waves. *Most catamaran thru hulls are above the waterline. I've seen too many monohulls sink because a hose fitting for their sinks came loose during the night. I've also had my hose fittings also come loose on my galley sink drain, and had to tighten them again. That's it. No water rushing in, no panics. This kind of design is not peculiar to multihulls. My monohull has all it's thru hulls below the water line. I think that's what he said... :-) *Capsizing - Some believe that the monohull ability to heel to dump a gust of wind gives them an advantage because the catamaran can't heel. True, cat's don't heel. We accelerate. There is a limit to how fast your catamaran will go. I have seen pictures of catamarans with one hull lifted out of the water. A strong enough wind is going to blow it over. Of course there are limits. There are also limits to how much pressure your hatch boards can take when bording water. The point is that instead of heeling, the multi sails faster. All else aside, a catamaran has two basic STABLE configurations, upright and upside down. A monohull has only one STABLE configuration, upright. Nope. It's got two. Upright on the top and upright on the bottom. :-) That's the way catamarans have the same "pressure valve" for dumping unexpected gusts, we can't heel, therefore the force is directed into motion forward. That's the safety valve. When your upwind hull comes out of the water, there goes your safety valve. Wave action can contribute to this problem. I can judge this problem easily on a monohull by the amount of heel. On a catamaran, you have to be a very good judge of speed, or otherwise you will have little warning, except for the upwind hull coming up, and by then, it may be too late. True, especially on crusing cats. However, this an extremely rare occurance and just a bit of careful thought will prevent it. I've been in the gulf stream in November, in large waves and trade winds down in the caribbean, I go fast. I think you have been very lucky up to now. I think he's probably very skilled. While going fast I can take my time and reef the sails without worrying about falling over the rails. I think the reason this keeps coming up is that every serious cruiser in a monohull has had a knock down and that fear is very present in their minds. The serious monohull sailors keep their sail plan under control by reefing, heaving to, or going bare pole, so most of them don't experience knock downs. Absolutely true! ... as should all sailors. I've been in the same wind gusts on a monohull and a catamaran. The monohull was knocked down and then righted itself, the catamaran just went faster. We do tend to compensate for this by sailing more by the numbers than a monohull would (reef at 20 knots, reef again at 30 knots, even if it feels completely under control). I hope this helps some who are looking at catamarans. Almost every reason I have isn't due to convenience, it's due to safety. I agree that multihulls are great for speed and shallow draft. When it comes to safety, I completely dissagree. I would not try any remote offshore cruising with a catamaran. You would be in a vocal majority, ill-informed as they are. Many, many multis have crossed oceans even in terrible conditions and had no problems at all. Same is true of monos. Both types of vessel can and are seakindly in extreme conditions. One of the jobs of an experienced skipper is to avoid extreme conditions. The previous postings about losing the mast are not the prevalent case. More often, the mast is mostly intact, and sailing can resume. More often? Not sure I agree. If you have sails up and the boat turtles, I think there's a good probability you're going to lose your rig. All the time? No. But a significant amount of time to make it common. |
#87
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Why do people buy cruising catamarans ?
On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 23:06:50 +0000, popeye wrote:
So why do people buy cruising catamarans if monohulls in the same price range are just as spacious and can go just as fast ? 1. Shallower draft 2. They can be parked on the beach 3. They don't sink as easily 4. They don't roll like monohulls 5. ??? Two separate bedrooms with their own bathrooms. Matt O. |
#88
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Why do people buy cruising catamarans ?
Paddy Malone wrote:sherwindu has contributed one important fact to this discussion when in his first post he stated "I have never even sailed on a cat myself". I am not questioning the comfort of a multihull, it's speed, etc. I'm basing my views on many years of ocean sailing experience and my education as an applied physicist/engineer. My concern is one of safety. I feel that a catamaran is not immune to tipping over, especially if conditions do not permit the reefing of sails. These comments about monohulls sinking is overstated. Sure they do, but not necesarily because of their basic design. Catamarans are made of fiberglass, etc., which last I heard is something that is heavier than water and will sink under certain circumstances. Reducing sail can decrease the probability of a roll in both monohulls and multihulls. Freak wave action can roll a boat over even with these precautions. I personally would feel safer and more comfortable in a boat that I know is going to come back up on it's own, with or without it's rigging, than hoping I can get into a watertight compartment with my boat floating upside down. The problem with taking a multihull on an extended voyage, say an ocean crossing, is that the chances of running into real bad weather increase. In the very extreme, one can take down all sails in a monohull, batten down the hatches, put out a sea anchor and ride things out. If for some reason the boat is rolled over, it will right itself. Can't say the same thing for a multihull. Granted this is an extreme case, but if I were planning an ocean crossing, it would certain cross my mind as a possibility. Sherwin D. |
#89
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Why do people buy cruising catamarans ?
"sherwindu" wrote in message ... I'm basing my views on many years of ocean sailing experience and my education as an applied physicist/engineer. My concern is one of safety. I feel that a catamaran is not immune to tipping over, Of course not. These comments about monohulls sinking is overstated. Your evidence for this is what? Sure they do, but not necesarily because of their basic design. Ever heard of Archimedes' law. I'd say the lead ballast tends to overcome the bouyant effect of even wooden or foam glass monos. Isn't ballast part of a mono's "basic design"? Catamarans are made of fiberglass, etc., which last I heard is something that is heavier than water and will sink under certain circumstances. Most are foam glass, some are wood, nearly all have multiple sealed chambers for buoyancy. I calculated the surface area of my last cruising cat, which was foam glass, and found that the foam itself was sufficient floatation for the whole boat. It also had four large floatation tanks built in, which were also more buoyant than displacement. Reducing sail can decrease the probability of a roll in both monohulls and multihulls. True Freak wave action can roll a boat over even with these precautions. I personally would feel safer and more comfortable in a boat that I know is going to come back up on it's own, with or without it's rigging, than hoping I can get into a watertight compartment with my boat floating upside down. The problem with taking a multihull on an extended voyage, say an ocean crossing, is that the chances of running into real bad weather increase. In the very extreme, one can take down all sails in a monohull, batten down the hatches, put out a sea anchor and ride things out. Same for multis- parachute anchors have been proven time and again. If for some reason the boat is rolled over, it will right itself. Can't say the same thing for a multihull. If for some reason a mono's watertight state is breached it sinks- can't say the same for a multi. Granted this is an extreme case, but if I were planning an ocean crossing, it would certain cross my mind as a possibility. As would sinking in a mono- you do carry a liferaft don't you ? Proof that sinking can occur. Peter HK |
#90
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Why do people buy cruising catamarans ?
sherwindu wrote:
Paddy Malone wrote:sherwindu has contributed one important fact to this discussion when in his first post he stated "I have never even sailed on a cat myself". I am not questioning the comfort of a multihull, it's speed, etc. I'm basing my views on many years of ocean sailing experience and my education as an applied physicist/engineer. My concern is one of safety. I feel that a catamaran is not immune to tipping over, especially if conditions do not permit the reefing of sails. Cats can tip / trip, but usually this is the domain of racing cats with high powered rigs and sailplans. These aren't the rig ratios you'll normally find on a cruising multi. On heavier cruising cats or tri's, the beam ratio (and inherent stability) is far more likely to see the rig wiped off from running overpowered, than capsizing the boat. The truth is that cruising cat or tri capsize is very unusual, and usually requires a combination of crew error (or stupidity, like a recent capsize in Indonesia achieved under screecher in 35+knots) with extreme wind and sea states to achieve. These comments about monohulls sinking is overstated. Sure they do, but not necesarily because of their basic design. Catamarans are made of fiberglass, etc., which last I heard is something that is heavier than water and will sink under certain circumstances. Cats and Tri's generally won't sink, and I can't think of any that I know of that have; but they can break up, which is their worst outcome and usually results from some sort of 3rd party collision (reef, container, whale/sunfish) to name a few, which is why I carry a liferaft. I read elsewhere in this thread, and know of many other multihull sailors who don't consider the expense and weight of a liferaft justified. I don't understand this rationale when offshore sailing, but each to their own. Reducing sail can decrease the probability of a roll in both monohulls and multihulls. Freak wave action can roll a boat over even with these precautions. I personally would feel safer and more comfortable in a boat that I know is going to come back up on it's own, with or without it's rigging, than hoping I can get into a watertight compartment with my boat floating upside down. Either outcome may be unavoidable, and both outcomes are unsatisfactory. Have you ever been rolled right over in a keelboat? I'm guessing not, because the one time I was (which was in a harbour, btw) the absolute chaos below from shipped water, fouled supplies, loose equipment, battery acid and the like made it no place to want to be for any period of time. I have never capsized on a cabin-sized multi, and doubt it would be much better inside, although the idea of inflating and securing the liferaft on the inverted hull(s) once the conditions quieten down has some appeal - although I'm not sure how it would work in practice. I suppose it could be allright if one had rigged some points in advance to secure everyhing. The problem with taking a multihull on an extended voyage, say an ocean crossing, is that the chances of running into real bad weather increase. In the very extreme, one can take down all sails in a monohull, batten down the hatches, put out a sea anchor and ride things out. If for some reason the boat is rolled over, it will right itself. Can't say the same thing for a multihull. Granted this is an extreme case, but if I were planning an ocean crossing, it would certain cross my mind as a possibility. The theory of lying to a parachute on a multi is standard heavy-weather practice. I've never heard of one capsizing from this situation. In fact, the multi lying to on a correctly set bridle and parachute is really a pretty comfortable solution when circumstances dictate it. Why don't you get out on a cat or tri sometime, and observe the differences for yourself? There are a lot of differences between multis and monos, and mostly they don't bear repeating, having been covered elsewhere in this thread. I sail multis primarily because the cruising grounds in easy reach here are quite shallow and require occasional foray into very shoal waters. Running a deep-draft keelboat would be a pain in the arse, and I don't much care for the performance of shallow-bilged monos. I like cats, tris and monos, and can appreciate the relative merits of all 3 styles, and personally, I wouldn't hesitate to venture offshore in a well found example of either type. Ian |
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