Chartplotting
 

On Wed, 04 Jan 2006 09:20:02 -0500, Harry Krause wrote:

Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 04 Jan 2006 00:42:33 -0800, Tamaroak
wrote:
Why doesn't someone come up with an adapter cord that connects a cheap
DVD players loaded with those charts to a C Map
NT+/BlueChart/Navionics chip adapter thingy so those of us with
chartplotters that use these antiquated systems can access all those
charts without buying all of the
individual chips?

============================================

The electronics of creating your own C-Map chips is not all that
complicated so the real challenge would be to create some software that
would convert NOAAs ENC vector format charts (free) into C-Map chips
that you could plug into your chart plotter. I'd be surprised if
someone doesn't try to do it. There may be licensing issues however
since I believe the C-MAP format is proprietary.



What's needed is a water-resistant laptop PC with a bright screen that
sells for about a grand. That'll be the kiss of death to the overpriced
"chartplotter" business.

Well, a Toughbook fits that description except for the price.

I've been using Pocket Navigator on a PDA, and I like it best so far. It's
not waterproof, but a PDA could be. I think the ultimate solution is
either a waterproof PDA or a tablet PC, which is basically a PDA with a
larger screen. Supposedly tablet PCs will eventually sell for like 200
bucks.

Matt O.

Chartplotting
 

On Wed, 04 Jan 2006 14:52:54 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:

On Wed, 04 Jan 2006 09:20:02 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

What's needed is a water-resistant laptop PC with a bright screen that
sells for about a grand. That'll be the kiss of death to the overpriced
"chartplotter" business.

================================

Probably not, although it might help to bring prices down. I have both,
and if one had to go, it would be the laptop. The chartplotter integrates
nicely with the RADAR which is a desirable thing. It also has dedicated
controls clearly labeled, and it will zoom in to a much greater level of
detail than the raster charts on the laptop.

There are two things the laptop does better which is why I use both. The
raster charts are very intuitive and easy to read since they look just
like the paper charts. My paticular software also does a good job with
trip planning and layout of routes, all of which can be done below decks
the night before.

Some PC nav software has radar integration. You're right about zooming
and detail though -- vector graphics allow this, plus they load faster.
Actually I think vector graphics are superior for electronic charts,
because aspects of them can be updated without having to redo the whole
chart. This is the idea behind the hew ENC charts. How they appear on
your screen with the colors, etc., can be completely adjustable too.

The one advantage of a raster chart is that the resolution is what it is.
It becomes appropriately pixellated when you zoom in too far, so there's
no way to read beyond the chart's true resolution. I'm afraid vector
formats may allow this, which could cause problems.

Matt O.

Chartplotting
 

On Wed, 04 Jan 2006 09:13:52 -0500, Harry Krause wrote:

Considering how little they do and how simple they are, "marine"
chartplotters are a rip-off of the first magnitude. For about $1000, you
can buy a small format PC, a 19" LCD monitor, and a waterproof keyboard
for a boat with a cabin control station. A few hundred bucks more will get
you a GPS antenna and chart software. That computer will perform a lot of
functions on a boat.

It's true, but not all boats have inside steering stations. Also, try
reading your monitor when the sun's directly on it -- not always avoidable.

Matt O.

Chartplotting
 

Matt O'Toole wrote:
On Wed, 04 Jan 2006 14:52:54 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:


On Wed, 04 Jan 2006 09:20:02 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:


What's needed is a water-resistant laptop PC with a bright screen that
sells for about a grand. That'll be the kiss of death to the overpriced
"chartplotter" business.

================================

Probably not, although it might help to bring prices down. I have both,
and if one had to go, it would be the laptop. The chartplotter integrates
nicely with the RADAR which is a desirable thing. It also has dedicated
controls clearly labeled, and it will zoom in to a much greater level of
detail than the raster charts on the laptop.

There are two things the laptop does better which is why I use both. The
raster charts are very intuitive and easy to read since they look just
like the paper charts. My paticular software also does a good job with
trip planning and layout of routes, all of which can be done below decks
the night before.


Some PC nav software has radar integration. You're right about zooming
and detail though -- vector graphics allow this, plus they load faster.
Actually I think vector graphics are superior for electronic charts,
because aspects of them can be updated without having to redo the whole
chart. This is the idea behind the hew ENC charts. How they appear on
your screen with the colors, etc., can be completely adjustable too.

The one advantage of a raster chart is that the resolution is what it is.
It becomes appropriately pixellated when you zoom in too far, so there's
no way to read beyond the chart's true resolution. I'm afraid vector
formats may allow this, which could cause problems.

Matt O.
My biggest complaint with vector charts as compared to raster is the
lack of place names on the screen. Makes it a two handed operation to
figure out the name of a nearby point or bay. Not so bad when you are
familiar with the area but awful when you are somewhere new.

Gaz

Chartplotting
 

Commodore Joe Redcloud© wrote:
On Thu, 05 Jan 2006 14:49:59 GMT, Gary wrote:


Matt O'Toole wrote:

On Wed, 04 Jan 2006 14:52:54 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:



On Wed, 04 Jan 2006 09:20:02 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:



What's needed is a water-resistant laptop PC with a bright screen that
sells for about a grand. That'll be the kiss of death to the overpriced
"chartplotter" business.

================================

Probably not, although it might help to bring prices down. I have both,
and if one had to go, it would be the laptop. The chartplotter integrates
nicely with the RADAR which is a desirable thing. It also has dedicated
controls clearly labeled, and it will zoom in to a much greater level of
detail than the raster charts on the laptop.

There are two things the laptop does better which is why I use both. The
raster charts are very intuitive and easy to read since they look just
like the paper charts. My paticular software also does a good job with
trip planning and layout of routes, all of which can be done below decks
the night before.


Some PC nav software has radar integration. You're right about zooming
and detail though -- vector graphics allow this, plus they load faster.
Actually I think vector graphics are superior for electronic charts,
because aspects of them can be updated without having to redo the whole
chart. This is the idea behind the hew ENC charts. How they appear on
your screen with the colors, etc., can be completely adjustable too.

The one advantage of a raster chart is that the resolution is what it is.
It becomes appropriately pixellated when you zoom in too far, so there's
no way to read beyond the chart's true resolution. I'm afraid vector
formats may allow this, which could cause problems.

Matt O.

My biggest complaint with vector charts as compared to raster is the
lack of place names on the screen. Makes it a two handed operation to
figure out the name of a nearby point or bay. Not so bad when you are
familiar with the area but awful when you are somewhere new.

Gaz


What vector charts were those?

One of the great things abot Vector charts is you can add or subtract
overlays with as much or as little information as you like. When you
zoom in or out, you can even set them so that notations either zoom in
and out with the chart, or stay one size.


Commodore Joe Redcloud©
DNC produced by the US National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency.

The add or subtract feature is great for a Nav team but for one guy
sailing along in a strange place constantly fiddling with the computer
to get info is distracting and time consuming. Light characteristics,
for example, require one to mouse over the object and a window opens
that obscures other stuff. Not nearly as convenient as a chart in a
plastic bag.
I do like the superior planning ability, ease of use and myriad other
benefits of electronic charting but I sure like to have paper handy and
prefer raster scans on screen.
I set my system up with vector below raster in display priority so that
the computer is using the look ahead and danger recognition ability of
the vector information but I see the raster chart when I glance at the
screen.

Chartplotting
 

Commodore Joe Redcloud© wrote:
On Thu, 05 Jan 2006 15:28:01 GMT, Gary wrote:


Commodore Joe Redcloud© wrote:

What vector charts were those?

One of the great things abot Vector charts is you can add or subtract
overlays with as much or as little information as you like. When you
zoom in or out, you can even set them so that notations either zoom in
and out with the chart, or stay one size.


Commodore Joe Redcloud©


DNC produced by the US National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency.

The add or subtract feature is great for a Nav team but for one guy
sailing along in a strange place constantly fiddling with the computer
to get info is distracting and time consuming. Light characteristics,
for example, require one to mouse over the object and a window opens
that obscures other stuff.


That sounds like a poorly designed piece of software you've got there!
I single hand a lot of the time, so I'm the team. I can turn light
characteristics on and off with a single muse click or a key
combination.


Commodore Joe Redcloud©
That is my point, the single mouse click etc. On a dark rainy night, in
narrow waters, I like to just look. Taking a glove off and reaching
under some protective cover to do "just a mouse click" sucks.

It is not the siftware that limits this, it is the ISO approval that
demands it.

Chartplotting
 

Dave wrote:
On Thu, 05 Jan 2006 15:28:01 GMT, Gary said:


I do like the superior planning ability, ease of use and myriad other
benefits of electronic charting but I sure like to have paper handy


I'm thinking about having some of the NOAA charts, with routes added by the
nav program, printed out in color on a size that would just fit my plotting
board. Anyone checked the prices of such a thing at Kinko's?
I do that sort of thing regularily so I have a printed notebook of
critical spots. Works a charm. Find someone with a wide bed printer.

Chartplotting
 

On Thu, 05 Jan 2006 02:11:09 -0500, Matt O'Toole
wrote:

Some PC nav software has radar integration. You're right about zooming
and detail though -- vector graphics allow this, plus they load faster.

======================

Another advantage to vector charts, which I had forgotten, is that
they rotate all the chart notations right side up when you are in
"Course Up" mode. Raster charts can't do that, and they are slower to
rotate after a course change. "Course Up" is much more intuitive in
many situations compared to "North Up", but it does take some getting
used to.

Chartplotting
 

I have used CMAP cards and PC-Planner to plan trips to Maine and in
French Polynesia for the past 6 years. I have over 400 waypoints in
Maine, from the Five Islands and Robinhood area on the Sheepscot River
to Roque Island near the Canadian border. I have never found a
significant error in the location of one of my waypoints. The same is
true for the waypoints I created in advance for navigation in Raiatea,
Tahaa and Bora Bora for a trip last Sept.
David Sparks

Chartplotting
 

good idea. there are free viewers for S57 or converted ENCs but they won;t
accept position input. the cheapest one i found whcih would was about
$400....the $200 version i nearly orderd turned out not to have that ability
either. Nobeltech Admiral V-8 has that ability....if i didn;t Grandfather
into it i would never have been able to justify the cost though.
Fugawi or Ozzi claim to be able to do it but they are still hundreds of
dollars. C-map is deffinately proprietary...just don;t resell what you make.
rick

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 04 Jan 2006 00:42:33 -0800, Tamaroak
wrote:
Why doesn't someone come up with an adapter cord that connects a cheap
DVD players loaded with those charts to a C Map NT+/BlueChart/Navionics
chip adapter thingy so those of us with chartplotters that use these
antiquated systems can access all those charts without buying all of the
individual chips?

============================================

The electronics of creating your own C-Map chips is not all that
complicated so the real challenge would be to create some software
that would convert NOAAs ENC vector format charts (free) into C-Map
chips that you could plug into your chart plotter. I'd be surprised
if someone doesn't try to do it. There may be licensing issues
however since I believe the C-MAP format is proprietary.