In article ,
Peggie Hall wrote:

Otoh, I just learned that a lot of cockpit drain through-hulls are
also below the waterline...which makes no sense to me either...sigh...

More than you might think: Ours are above the waterline at rest. At hull
speed, they're a foot under the stern wave. And I can't easily change
them because they're structural members.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Jere Lull wrote:
In article ,
Peggie Hall wrote:
Otoh, I just learned that a lot of cockpit drain through-hulls are
also below the waterline...which makes no sense to me either...sigh...

More than you might think: Ours are above the waterline at rest. At hull
speed, they're a foot under the stern wave. And I can't easily change
them because they're structural members.

All my 30' yachts and under have had the cockpit drains
underwater. To have a cockpit that is designed to be within
normal proportions of height, the depth of the drain fitting
in the cockpit, with a tube clamped and led away under the
cockpit sole to it's opposite hull outlet, you're already
below water level, usually on the curve away.
Not everyone has a larger boat with high freeboard and
consequently a high cockpit sole.
The major problem is from having the corresponding valves
open when leaving the boat for any length of time, unlike
all others, which can (should) be closed.
BrianH.

I started this thread so I thought it best to let you all know how it
is progressing.

The boat in question is now out of the water and the insurance assessor
has completed his survey and estimated damage in excess of 12000 euros.
After listening to the advice on this NG I was worried the insurance
company would not pay out as my friend does not have a vented loop
fitted and yes the toilet manual valve was left open by the last user.

My friend received a phone call to say the insurance company would not
pay out in respect of this claim, expecting them to quote vented
loops...etc, but no! they said they would not pay out this claim
because in the small print of the policy it apparrantly states that
'boats must be lifted out for the winter by the 3rd November'. On
checking the policy my friend was horrified to find out he was not
covered.

Anyway to cut a long story short, the greek insurance company has
agreed to pay out in 'Good Faith' after a lot of pressure from the
Marina owner, but as you can guess the first item to be purchased will
be a Vented Loop!

Thanks to all

phasmatis wrote:

I started this thread so I thought it best to let you all know how it
is progressing.
... and yes the toilet manual valve was left open by the last user.

You're referring to the wet/dry valve on the toilet...? It's dangerous
to rely on that valve to prevent water from entering the boat while no
one is aboard! Not only can the last user leave it open, but wet/dry
valves fail.

And vented loops aren't 100% fail-safe either. Should the air valve
become clogged and someone leave the valve in the "wet" mode, water
pushed through the line over the loop can start a siphon.

So if he has ANY sense at all, not only will he install the appropriate
vented loops, but he'll close the seacocks when leaving the boat...'cuz
should it sink again, or even suffer water damage from seacocks left
open, it's unlikely that his insurance carrier will pay the next time,
no matter how much pressure the marine owner or anyone else puts on them.
--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/store/custo...0&cat=6&page=1
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

In article . com,
"phasmatis" wrote:

Anyway to cut a long story short, the greek insurance company has
agreed to pay out in 'Good Faith' after a lot of pressure from the
Marina owner, but as you can guess the first item to be purchased will
be a Vented Loop!

And the second purchase would be a policy from a different company.
Sometimes folks around here can get in a Thanksgiving cruise: 4 days the
last weekend in November. I still was adding to my tan in early
November. ;-) BUT it's 20°F/-10°C right now.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:28:14 +0100, BrianH wrote:


The major problem is from having the corresponding valves
open when leaving the boat for any length of time, unlike
all others, which can (should) be closed.
BrianH.

I went to the canvas-covered and land-locked boat yesterday, as I do
every week or so whether I have work to do or not. As the wind was 25
knots from the East and consequently quite bitter, I didn't want to
hang about, but then I noticed a half-meter icicle hanging from the
port cockpit drain. When "on the hard" I leave ALL seacocks open,
aside from the engine intake, which stays closed to keep the
antifreeze in. Basically, I do the opposite to what I do in the water.

And I'm glad I do. The wind had at some point loosened the light line
holding down the canvas, which had sagged and accumulated several
kilos of ice. This had thawed and frozen more than once, and had
seeped through into the cockpit, which now requires "defrosting".

If the cockpit drains had NOT been open, I would have likely had
columns of ice in there and a thick layer of ice in the cockpit and on
one locker lid. Instead, 90% of it drained out. The only damage done
is some small tears to the canvas, which I will repair as soon as we
get a day without wind or snow even slightly above the freezing point.

Just some "front-line" experience. Leave your seacocks OPEN in the
winter, because a boat in a cradle is just a glorified bucket.

R.

On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 16:05:11 -0500, rhys wrote:

Just some "front-line" experience. Leave your seacocks OPEN in the
winter, because a boat in a cradle is just a glorified bucket.

===========================

Good advice but it doesn't go far enough. The cockpit drains can (and
will) become clogged with debris from time to time. From there to
flooding or ice damage is only a storm away, so it's important to
visit the boat and make sure the drains are actually clear.