Peggie,

Trying to tell people to install vented loops is like trying to get them to
close seacocks when they leave the boat for extended periods. Ain't gonna
happen.

When you tell people they should close all the through hulls prior to
leaving they say that is not what they are for, or that would take to long,
or don't you trust your hoses, or I can't get too my through hulls,,,,and
that is why most boats sink at the dock.

You should see the looks I get from the yard when I tell them the ignition
key is hanging on the closed raw water engine intake and they will need to
open the intake when getting the key to start the engine.

B

"Peggie Hall" wrote in message
...
Gary wrote:
Yup, my cousins bilge pump started syphoning and sank his boat.

I don' TEEENK that's what happened...for a couple of reasons: bilge pumps
don't bring water INTO the boat, they remove water FROM the boat...and the
thru-hulls for bilge pumps are above the waterline. So unless there was
already enough water in the boat to put the bilge pump thru-hull under
water, there's no way that a siphon can start in a bilge pump line.

The water that sank your cousin's boat had to be coming in somewhere
else...and either the bilge pumps clogged and failed, or they kept pumping
till they drained the batteries and died...allowing the boat to fill up
and sink. Or, the water was coming in faster than the bilge pumps could
keep up with it. Or any combination/all of the above.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/store/custo...0&cat=6&page=1
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

Bryan wrote:
Trying to tell people to install vented loops is like trying to get them to
close seacocks when they leave the boat for extended periods. Ain't gonna
happen.


Yep. And that's why somany boats are in the shape they're in.


When you tell people they should close all the through hulls prior to
leaving they say that is not what they are for, or that would take to long,
or don't you trust your hoses, or I can't get too my through hulls,,,,and
that is why most boats sink at the dock.


Yep again. "That's not what they're for"??!? Gee what are
they for then?

"Can't get to my thru-hulls"?!?!!?!!!???!! Why did you buy a
freekin' boat with inaccessible thru-hulls?

Another common one is people who don't know where their
thru-hulls are.


You should see the looks I get from the yard when I tell them the ignition
key is hanging on the closed raw water engine intake and they will need to
open the intake when getting the key to start the engine.


Another goody is people not closing their fuel tank valves.



Gary wrote:
Yup, my cousins bilge pump started syphoning and sank his boat.

"Peggie Hall" wrote
I don' TEEENK that's what happened...for a couple of reasons: bilge pumps
don't bring water INTO the boat, they remove water FROM the boat...and the
thru-hulls for bilge pumps are above the waterline.

Umm, not all of them are.


The water that sank your cousin's boat had to be coming in somewhere
else...and either the bilge pumps clogged and failed, or they kept pumping
till they drained the batteries and died...allowing the boat to fill up
and sink. Or, the water was coming in faster than the bilge pumps could
keep up with it. Or any combination/all of the above.


Rainwater can do it. Also if shore water supply is left
hooked up, and a leak begins (or a hose blows out); that is
a very common way boats sink at the dock (accoring to
insurance). I guess leaving shore water hooked up goes on
the list with leaving thru-hulls & fuel valves open....

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

DSK wrote:
Bryan wrote:

Trying to tell people to install vented loops is like trying to get
them to close seacocks when they leave the boat for extended periods.
Ain't gonna happen.


Yep. And that's why somany boats are in the shape they're in.


When you tell people they should close all the through hulls prior to
leaving they say that is not what they are for, or that would take to
long, or don't you trust your hoses, or I can't get too my through
hulls,,,,and that is why most boats sink at the dock.


Yep again. "That's not what they're for"??!? Gee what are they for then?

"Can't get to my thru-hulls"?!?!!?!!!???!! Why did you buy a freekin'
boat with inaccessible thru-hulls?

Another common one is people who don't know where their thru-hulls are.


You should see the looks I get from the yard when I tell them the
ignition key is hanging on the closed raw water engine intake and they
will need to open the intake when getting the key to start the engine.


Another goody is people not closing their fuel tank valves.



Gary wrote:

Yup, my cousins bilge pump started syphoning and sank his boat.


"Peggie Hall" wrote

I don' TEEENK that's what happened...for a couple of reasons: bilge
pumps don't bring water INTO the boat, they remove water FROM the
boat...and the thru-hulls for bilge pumps are above the waterline.


Umm, not all of them are.


The water that sank your cousin's boat had to be coming in somewhere
else...and either the bilge pumps clogged and failed, or they kept
pumping till they drained the batteries and died...allowing the boat
to fill up and sink. Or, the water was coming in faster than the
bilge pumps could keep up with it. Or any combination/all of the above.


Rainwater can do it. Also if shore water supply is left hooked up, and a
leak begins (or a hose blows out); that is a very common way boats sink
at the dock (accoring to insurance). I guess leaving shore water hooked
up goes on the list with leaving thru-hulls & fuel valves open....

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

I didn't conduct an investigation. His boat sank, it had a bilge pump,
no head, and an outboard. The only thru hull was the bilge pump outlet.
It's his story. Argue about something else.

Rainwater can do it. Also if shore water supply is left hooked up, and
a leak begins (or a hose blows out); that is a very common way boats
sink at the dock (accoring to insurance).



Gary wrote:
I didn't conduct an investigation. His boat sank, it had a bilge pump,
no head, and an outboard. The only thru hull was the bilge pump outlet.
It's his story. Argue about something else.

Aw, c'mon. Anyway, it wasn't me insisting that it couldn't
be the bilge pump.

DSK

Bryan wrote:

Trying to tell people to install vented loops is like trying to get them to
close seacocks when they leave the boat for extended periods. Ain't gonna
happen.

I know. Today's typical boat owner is a new breed...clueless, happy to
remain so, unwilling to learn even the most basic skills, do any manual
labor, or take any responsibility for ensuring the safety of his own
boat...if I've heard "that's why I have insurance" once, I've heard it
100 times! Perhaps if the insurance industry stopped paying claims for
preventable losses.... But that ain't gonna happen either.

Btw, Doug... Not all bilge pump thru-hulls are above the waterline???
That's nutsy design...how can a pump empty out a boat through a hole
through which water can come in faster than the pump can push it out???
Otoh, I just learned that a lot of cockpit drain through-hulls are
also below the waterline...which makes no sense to me either...sigh...




--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/store/custo...0&cat=6&page=1
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

Bryan wrote:
Trying to tell people to install vented loops is like trying to get
them to close seacocks when they leave the boat for extended periods.
Ain't gonna happen.


Peggie Hall wrote:
I know. Today's typical boat owner is a new breed...

I dunno if it's so much a "new" breed as the same old
dumb-ass from all ages of history, only set free in today's
consumer-driven easy-credit economy.

Would we have it be any different, truly? Then it would be
much more difficult to be above average!

... clueless, happy to
remain so, unwilling to learn even the most basic skills, do any manual
labor, or take any responsibility for ensuring the safety of his own
boat...

Careful, now you're swerving into politics!

... if I've heard "that's why I have insurance" once, I've heard it
100 times! Perhaps if the insurance industry stopped paying claims for
preventable losses.... But that ain't gonna happen either.


That's true but many insurance companies either raise rates
on "accident" prone boaters just like they do for similarly
inclined auto drivers; and also insurance companies quit
writing boat policies. A big wave occurred after Hurricane
Katrina, and boat insurance is going up.

All the above are among the reasons why I think the
recreational boating market is not going to climb up into a
seller's market any time soon, if ever. The impact of peak
oil on the macro economy and the reduced interest in outdoor
activities on the part of young people (most of whom would
be perfectly content to sit around playing video games) are
two more.

Btw, Doug... Not all bilge pump thru-hulls are above the waterline???
That's nutsy design...how can a pump empty out a boat through a hole
through which water can come in faster than the pump can push it out???
Otoh, I just learned that a lot of cockpit drain through-hulls are also
below the waterline...which makes no sense to me either...sigh...


Well, boat design & construction is a compromise. Some
compromises are better than others

DSK

"Peggie Hall" a
écrit dans le message de news:
.. .
Bryan wrote:

Trying to tell people to install
vented loops is like trying to get
them to close seacocks when they
leave the boat for extended periods.
Ain't gonna happen.

I know. Today's typical boat owner is
a new breed...clueless, happy to
remain so, unwilling to learn even
the most basic skills, do any manual
labor, or take any responsibility for
ensuring the safety of his own
boat...if I've heard "that's why I
have insurance" once, I've heard it
100 times! Perhaps if the insurance
industry stopped paying claims for
preventable losses.... But that
ain't gonna happen either.

Btw, Doug... Not all bilge pump
thru-hulls are above the waterline???
That's nutsy design...how can a pump
empty out a boat through a hole
through which water can come in
faster than the pump can push it
out??? Otoh, I just learned that a
lot of cockpit drain through-hulls
are also below the waterline...which
makes no sense to me
either...sigh...
snip

Hi - the pump outlet issue is one I
know first hand...
On a sail boat the bilge pump outlet is
frequently underwater when heeled,
and for well designed sailboats with
the outlets on the transom to avoid
this
issue, the wave they generate making
way can sometimes reach the outlets...
No loop, sticky valve and glug, glug,
glug... ;o)
Pierre.

Peggie Hall wrote:
Bryan wrote:

Trying to tell people to install vented loops is like trying to get
them to close seacocks when they leave the boat for extended periods.
Ain't gonna happen.


I know. Today's typical boat owner is a new breed...clueless, happy to
remain so, unwilling to learn even the most basic skills, do any manual
labor, or take any responsibility for ensuring the safety of his own
boat...if I've heard "that's why I have insurance" once, I've heard it
100 times! Perhaps if the insurance industry stopped paying claims for
preventable losses.... But that ain't gonna happen either.

Btw, Doug... Not all bilge pump thru-hulls are above the waterline???
That's nutsy design...how can a pump empty out a boat through a hole
through which water can come in faster than the pump can push it out???
Otoh, I just learned that a lot of cockpit drain through-hulls are also
below the waterline...which makes no sense to me either...sigh...

Why not? None of my boats have had cockpit drains above the waterline
(unless heeled). That is why there are valves on them.

In article ,
Peggie Hall wrote:

Otoh, I just learned that a lot of cockpit drain through-hulls are
also below the waterline...which makes no sense to me either...sigh...

More than you might think: Ours are above the waterline at rest. At hull
speed, they're a foot under the stern wave. And I can't easily change
them because they're structural members.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Jere Lull wrote:
In article ,
Peggie Hall wrote:
Otoh, I just learned that a lot of cockpit drain through-hulls are
also below the waterline...which makes no sense to me either...sigh...

More than you might think: Ours are above the waterline at rest. At hull
speed, they're a foot under the stern wave. And I can't easily change
them because they're structural members.

All my 30' yachts and under have had the cockpit drains
underwater. To have a cockpit that is designed to be within
normal proportions of height, the depth of the drain fitting
in the cockpit, with a tube clamped and led away under the
cockpit sole to it's opposite hull outlet, you're already
below water level, usually on the curve away.
Not everyone has a larger boat with high freeboard and
consequently a high cockpit sole.
The major problem is from having the corresponding valves
open when leaving the boat for any length of time, unlike
all others, which can (should) be closed.
BrianH.