| Page 2 of 2 | 1 | 2 |
|
|
500w self-starting DC generator anyone?
purple_stars wrote:
[snip] followup to my own post ... all that said, i'd be more likely to buy the luggable version, sort of like a diesel version of the little honda generator, because i wouldn't want to try to install it with all the exhaust and fuel lines and things in a boat, just too much trouble for what it is. that's more something you'd fit in when you were building the boat in the first place, or re-fitting it. installing a diesel generator below deck i think is just too much trouble for me personally. :) |
500w self-starting DC generator anyone?
I agree 100%. Auto start might be a nice *additional* option to have
but probably not for the increase in cost. Boaters who are serious enough about their batteries and electrical system to buy something like this will probably want the control and be careful not to draw their batteries down so low that the automatic option would kick in. Besides, think of the liability if someone was checking something like belt tension, fueling, or working on the electrical system when it kicked in. For an engine of this size, I would favor a pull rope and the lowest possible cost unless you go the permanently installed route and it's in a place you can't got to pull on it. If air-cooled, that isn't very likely. I would mount the fuel tank on it in such a way that it can easily be removed and an extension fuel line attached. You might hook it up to the boat's main fuel supply and have the option for taking it ashore to use for other purposes. Or, you could put the generator where it is most convenient and the fuel tank in the best place. I wish the fuel tank on my home emergency generator was removable this way. Then I could leave the gas out in the shed and keep the generator in the basement so the block and cylinders wouldn't be cold soaked if I needed to get it running. Most boater who would buy something like this will also have a very good 120 V driven battery charger. It very possibly will have temperature probes to the batteries. Being able to supply just enough AC to run this unit would be my goal. If it could also run small power tools, it would have additional uses if portable. Many battery chargers are hooked up with a standard three prong plug and an AC outlet. Boat with this set up could simply run a standard cord to the charger when they wanted to use the generator. It the AC charger is hard wired, they could use an adapter to the shore power inlet and turn off everything else in the boat. This would also let the generator power the boat's AC outlets for running tools. Think simple. Think flexible. Keep the cost and weight low enough that I will buy one. -- Roger Long "purple_stars" wrote in message ups.com... Chuck Cox wrote: purple_stars wrote: [snip] and also remote start so you can mount the starter switch where ever you want it. There really won't be a "Start" button. There will only be "On/Off" and the charger will decide when to start and stop. When you suggest this feature, are you thinking of a built-in or stand-alone configuation? I think this would be required in a built-in configuration, but for a stand-alone configuration, I'm inclined to forgoe the additional expense unless it provides a significant benefit. Thanks for your feedback. for the built in configuration is what i meant. unless it's just going to be a self contained generator with it's own fuel tank and everything like you were considering then i think the run switch is less than desirable, and let me tell you why. anyone who is going to be using this generator in our (rec.boats.cruising) mindset is going to have certain things going through their head, and here's the basic thought process ... (please feel free to say this isn't your thought process rec.boats.cruisers! lol) ... maybe i should say, it's my thought process! -- ** oh no! it's been rainy & gloomy and calm for days, thick stratus clouds as far as the eye can see, and they're just sitting there not moving a bit. my solar panels haven't been producing enough power to keep the house battery bank charged up and the wind generator hasn't been producing any power either because of the lack of wind. what to do!!! oh, i know, we can TURN THE SWITCH ON FOR THE DIESEL BATTERY CHARGER and spend some fuel charging up the house bank so we don't lose power to the radio, cooler, and all the other junk we have on board. and later ... ** oh goodie!!! we're out of the doldrums, the wind is picking up, the sun is coming back out, and we're getting power from the solar panels and wind generator again! yay! NOW WE CAN TURN THE DIESEL GENERATOR OFF AND LEAVE IT OFF UNTIL WE NEED IT TO CHARGE UP THE BATTERIES AGAIN. meanwhile, we'll just go back to using this free energy that doesn't cost us any precious fuel and save the fuel for a rainy day. -- that's basically the thought process going on. your generator, in my thinking, is there to make it so that the cruiser doesn't have to use the big marine engine and it's alternator just to charge batteries, instead, yours is like a mini version, to efficiently turn fuel into battery bank storage. but it's NOT THE PRIMARY means of charging batteries, it's the backup to use when the free stuff stops working. which it does sometimes, due to lack of wind, days of rain, or maybe you are missing a fuse you need, or your wind generator got lost in a storm or something. most battery bank systems are going to be sophisticated enough (as will their users) to put your generator to the proper use on their own. there are already plenty of solar/wind battery chargers out there that have a built in automatic control for turning on/off a generator and managing it without your generator trying to do that on it's own (and in my opinion getting in the way). that said, that's all assuming it's all installed, like you said. if it's just one piece and you take it out on deck to recharge the batteries for a few hours then yeah a run button is the best thing. you didn't sound so sure about that though since you were asking if it should have it's own fuel tank, it sounded like you were going more for an installed widget vs. a luggable gadget. but if you are going luggable then you're in competition with the little honda generator and a more general market. and a diesel luggable is going to be really heavy. personally i don't want a generator doing what it wants to do, i want it doing what i want it to do, i want control over it. there is enough stuff going on inside of a boat without having a generator starting up at awkward times, at night when you're sleeping, when there's water in the bilge or what have you ... it's just not a good idea to have it starting and running without some kind of basic control over it, in my opinion. of course maybe opinions vary, i don't know. i think it's nice having all the switches right there in one place near the fuses, and it gives you more options for where to put the generator and it's associated pipes. and with a remote switch you can hook it up to a relay and have all kinds of flexibility, or let the solar/wind charger turn it on and off with a manual override (remote run switch). |
500w self-starting DC generator anyone?
Makes it sound like a good low battery alarm option if it'll start up
automatically on bilge watch. Add a cellphone auto dialler interface, and your boat anchored a hundred miles away in a cell phone area can look after herself during the week, calling home even on a battery too low to start the genny. With a propane safe style locker and an air inlet tube for the engine, it might even be convenient to move it from the mother ship to the gig. If it's portable, it might go in the dinghy to backup long trolling motor trips, say for groceries from the mouth of the Jemseg to Gagetown, a comfortable hour by dinghy with a gas outboard, or a nail biter with only one battery. You could use a real small battery to buffer the genny for the Min Kota or for short trips, and you could control the cg better than with a larger outboard, let alone lugging one. It sounds like a winner to me. If it was silent, and if synergy works in an insulated boat with seawater cooled intake ventilation and exhaust air heat exchanger fan, adding a little air conditioner, say 200 watts or so, carved out of a solid state cooler box, might just make sweltering nights on a tiny boat bearable, so long as the exhaust is always downwind from the intakes, or exits high up, away from cooler intakes, say up the mast... You might even be able to collect some condensed water vapor from the cold plate, to mix with water purification fluid, ie Crown Royal.. A small enough ship, like a CL16 could also depend on a Minn Kota for weekend excursions into airless hinterland fishing areas, where the prime mover could make a mosquito proof insulated tent liveable and pilotable. Now, if everything needed only one fuel, like camp stove fuel, or LPG, or if you had a diesel camp stove. Did you suggest it could be made to run on canola oil or ethanol? They camp out in Volkswagens, don't they? How about a pto shaft for a rooster tail prop shaft, pump or power saw / drill? Price? Oh, make the auto self start an option. Terry K |
500w self-starting DC generator anyone?
On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 16:06:11 -0500, Chuck Cox wrote: Yes, this is an old thread coming back to life... Back in December I wrote: As part of a non-boating-related product, my company is designing what amounts to an automatic 500w DC self-starting gasoline battery charger. The charger is designed to be portable, unobtrusive and easy to maintain. If the battery has sufficient charge, it can self-start, but it can also be hand-started easily when necessary. It is designed to automatically start and stop as necessary to keep a battery charged. Having read postings here about cruisers running with reduced radar and lighting at night in order to conserve battery power, it occured to me that we could repackage the charger for marine use. It would be roughly shoe-box sized and effectively silent unless you were sitting next to it on a calm day. It seems like this would be useful for boats with no genset and modest electrical loads (i.e. lights & electronics). When connected to the battery it would automatically start up and and shut down as necessary to maintain the charge. It could also be designed to cooperate with external charge controllers. It seems like it would be a useful product, but I found nothing like it when I googled for obvious keywords. Does such a product already exist? Would there be any interest in such a charger? I know I have been in situations where it would have been useful. Roger Long and several others then made very convincing arguments that diesel would be the best fuel for this product. Well, my partner has found an appropriate diesel motor and electric motor/generator. We are putting together a test stand now and should get some real-world data soon. My partner insists that lubrication is not a problem at any angle of heel, but that is one thing we'll be taking a hard look at. There are a couple of major variables that I'm still unclear on: how it will get fuel and where it will be located. For fuel, I'm wondering if it would be preferable to have its own fuel tank or to connect to the main fuel system. For location, it could be a stand-alone unit that you put on deck to operate, or a built-in unit that could operate without getting in the way. Clearly these two issues are inter-related. My original idea was to make it stand-alone with its own fuel tank. By using a small fuel pump, we can locate the fuel tank beside the motor instead of on top like most generators. This would make for a low-profile package that would be less intrusive than a typical generator, but you'd still have one more thing on deck to trip over. So, if you were to put such a system on your boat, what would you prefer? Diesel definately. I'd rather not deal with gasoline at all, since I don't have a gasoline aux or main, I don't want to haul it for a genset. Standalone would be preferable for me, but either way would work. What price point are you looking at? Competing with the little and quiet (although gas) honda's is gong to be tough. But good luck, and please keep us posted, I for one would be interested. -- Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock "Human beings can always be counted on to assert with vigor their God-given right to be stupid." -- Dean Koontz |
500w self-starting DC generator anyone?
In article , Chuck Cox
wrote: Peter Wiley wrote: Depends. Is this going to be water cooled or air cooled? If water cooled, sea water or fresh water with radiator or via heat exchanger? Air cooled. I'm assuming air cooled as this is simplest for an engine. However, it may be noisy and need access to ventilation so belowdecks may not be ideal. The noise will be minimized since we can optimize the induction/exhaust system for one fundamental frequency and amplitude. However, you are right that it will make noise and require ventilation. I am particularly concerned about exhaust gases. If it operates belowdecks, it *has* to have some form of idiot-proof exhaust to a weather deck. A built-in system would almost certainly be more expensive to design and support, so we'd need to see sufficient demand to justify it. My preference would be for an integral tank that gravity-feeds the engine. This is simplest and therefore cheapest. You can always use it as a day tank and fill via dedicated line from the main tank, or rig up a float switch to kick in a pump. Does the higher profile of a gravity-fed system matter to you? No. Where would you envision operating such a system on your boat? Probably, depending on size, in a dedicated locker aft, sealed from the interior spaces similar to a locker for gas bottles. Tell me how big it's likely to be, how much ventilation it needs and I may have other ideas. PDW |
500w self-starting DC generator anyone?
In article , Chuck Cox
wrote: purple_stars wrote: if you want to use a fuel based system you've always had to step up to suddenly wasting incredible amounts of fuel to run an alternator that is very inefficient at charging batteries for the amount of fuel wasted doing it, and there's not been a generator that is down in the "few hundred watt" range that would make better use of fuel. battery banks can only accept a certain amount of power, and a 5000 watt generator might as well be a 500 watt generator because you can't charge the batteries any faster than using a few hundred watts anyway, so you're just wasting energy for nothing. nobody has ever bothered to make and sell an inexpensive small diesel generator designed to charge a battery bank, at least not that i've ever seen. cruisers are interested in the measurement "battery bank watt hours created per liter of fuel", and i'm not aware of any manufacturer that has ever thought about it that way. most generator makers just think of "watts generated per liter", which isn't the same thing at all. That is exactly our thinking too. By optimizing the system for charging only, we can maximize efficiency. Our biggest advantage is that we have a fixed load and can optimize the system for a very narrow operating range in terms of speed and power. Although we are using an off-the-shelf motor, we expect to use custom induction & exhaust systems in order to maximize efficiency and minimize noise and size. i would think that hooking it into the fuel line for the engine's fuel tank would be the preferred way, but why not make the external tank an option ? that way you can decide for yourself when you buy one if you want the tank or if you want a piece of fuel line and a T adapter. As a small business, we can only afford to design, manufacture and support one configuration initially. I'm trying to figure out which configuration would be our best first shot. diesel is definitely the way to go, storage of gasoline is a problem. it would be nice if it used fuel filters that you can get at the same time as the ones for your marine engine without special ordering. Our intention is to use as many off-the-shelf components as possible. However, most of the parts probably won't be found in a typical marine catalog because I don't think there are too many 1 hp marine diesel-electric applications. I have a 3 HP manual/electric start air cooled Yanmar marine diesel with integral tank & 2:1 F-N-R box I picked up som years ago waiting for the right project. I actually had something like this, or using it to drive a hydraulic pump, or both, in mind. PDW |
500w self-starting DC generator anyone?
On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 12:51:30 -0500, Chuck Cox
wrote: This brings up another question; should we incorporate an intelligent charger or should we interface with an existing external charger? If your batteries are already connected to a charging system, it will only confuse things if we try to operate two independent changing systems simultaneously. My assumption is that most potential users of this charger already have a charging system onboard. Is this a valid assumption? I have no experience with off-the-shelf marine chargers, can they even be interfaced with an external power source? I think you may find that if you design a basic "core" model, you can successfully market add-ons geared to end-user needs. I would personally favour smart-charging because it "covers my bets" for a multitude of scenarios: the failure of a smart/regulated alternator on the main diesel, the failure of a charger, and the failure of the wind to blow and the sun to shine, which would be my primary methods of charging in order to avoid the wasteful and noisy running of the main engine for 2 hrs/day to provide a charge. So if you can make this design "modular", you have the options that people want: a luggable power supply, a miniature diesel "day charger" for battery banks, keeping one less fuel type on board, and the options to tap into tank fuel or to use integral fuel. It's a great option for small-boat owners, too, who frequently stay on the hook longer, anyway, and who tend to do more yard work at a distance from "municipal power". I am currently on a dock, but would be happier on a mooring (and would save $1,500/year) if I could have this sort of thing to charge me up. R. |
500w self-starting DC generator anyone?
Peter Wiley wrote:
In article , Chuck Cox wrote: Where would you envision operating such a system on your boat? Probably, depending on size, in a dedicated locker aft, sealed from the interior spaces similar to a locker for gas bottles. Tell me how big it's likely to be, how much ventilation it needs and I may have other ideas. If we use a fuel pump, it'll probably be about the size of a shoebox. If we use gravity, it'll be maybe 50% taller. If there is no integral tank, maybe 1/2 a shoebox. The intake and exhaust will probably be under 1" in diameter. For short runs, appropriate tubing of that diameter would suffice. -- Chuck Cox - SynchroSystems - Synchro.com , my email is politician-proof, just remove the PORK |
500w self-starting DC generator anyone?
Jim Richardson wrote:
On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 16:06:11 -0500, Chuck Cox wrote: So, if you were to put such a system on your boat, what would you prefer? Diesel definately. I'd rather not deal with gasoline at all, since I don't have a gasoline aux or main, I don't want to haul it for a genset. Standalone would be preferable for me, but either way would work. What price point are you looking at? It'll probably cost about as much as a typical 1 kW genset. If we can't sell it for under $1k retail, we probably won't bother. Right now our engineering estimates have the MSRP below that. Competing with the little and quiet (although gas) honda's is gong to be tough. But good luck, and please keep us posted, I for one would be interested. We have no intention of competing with Honda, we will only proceed with this project if our market research indicates we have found a true niche. I see no reason why someone might not have both products for different purposes. -- Chuck Cox - SynchroSystems - Synchro.com , my email is politician-proof, just remove the PORK |
500w self-starting DC generator anyone?
In article , Chuck Cox
wrote: Peter Wiley wrote: In article , Chuck Cox wrote: Where would you envision operating such a system on your boat? Probably, depending on size, in a dedicated locker aft, sealed from the interior spaces similar to a locker for gas bottles. Tell me how big it's likely to be, how much ventilation it needs and I may have other ideas. If we use a fuel pump, it'll probably be about the size of a shoebox. If we use gravity, it'll be maybe 50% taller. If there is no integral tank, maybe 1/2 a shoebox. The intake and exhaust will probably be under 1" in diameter. For short runs, appropriate tubing of that diameter would suffice. OK, a deck locker would work nicely. The other place I'd look at putting it was belowdecks and use a coupling to external exhaust. That size, it's not going to use sufficient air from belowdecks to be a problem. There may be other applications for something like this. I can think of one or 2 supplying power to remote field parties where solar either doesn't provide sufficient current or isn't reliable due to cloud. I'm in the marine science research business. If you can produce one of these things for less than $1K I'd buy one straight off for work, just to play with. I already have 12 Honda gensets.... PDW |
500w self-starting DC generator anyone?
Chuck Cox wrote in
t: We have no intention of competing with Honda, we will only proceed with this project if our market research indicates we have found a true niche. I see no reason why someone might not have both products for different purposes. You mean like this? http://www.nextgenerationpower.com/Main.html I know someone who used to own a canvas shop and got the dealership for this Kubota-tractor-powered little genset. They worked great, turned slow, and I don't think she ever had one that broke! I see on the webpage they FINALLY got some belt guards on the fanbelts for the water pump and generator drive pulleys.....a good thing. I never heard one in the case, though. |
500w self-starting DC generator anyone?
If I can buy a reliable unit for under $1K, install it in my engine room,
cool with seawater, hook to existing fuel system, have an optional switch for on/off/auto, keep my battery bank charged, I will buy one...if works well, I will tell everyone I know. This is what I want...battery bank charging but not a large generator such as commonly seen on larger powerboats. Affordable quiet power. Glenn. s/v Seawing www.seawing.net "Chuck Cox" wrote in message ... Peter Wiley wrote: In article , Chuck Cox wrote: Where would you envision operating such a system on your boat? Probably, depending on size, in a dedicated locker aft, sealed from the interior spaces similar to a locker for gas bottles. Tell me how big it's likely to be, how much ventilation it needs and I may have other ideas. If we use a fuel pump, it'll probably be about the size of a shoebox. If we use gravity, it'll be maybe 50% taller. If there is no integral tank, maybe 1/2 a shoebox. The intake and exhaust will probably be under 1" in diameter. For short runs, appropriate tubing of that diameter would suffice. -- Chuck Cox - SynchroSystems - Synchro.com , my email is politician-proof, just remove the PORK |
500w self-starting DC generator anyone?
Yes, but at $6K-$7K not under $1K such as these folks are suggesting...for a
much smaller unit. Glenn. s/v Seawing www.seawing.net "Larry" wrote in message ... Chuck Cox wrote in t: We have no intention of competing with Honda, we will only proceed with this project if our market research indicates we have found a true niche. I see no reason why someone might not have both products for different purposes. You mean like this? http://www.nextgenerationpower.com/Main.html I know someone who used to own a canvas shop and got the dealership for this Kubota-tractor-powered little genset. They worked great, turned slow, and I don't think she ever had one that broke! I see on the webpage they FINALLY got some belt guards on the fanbelts for the water pump and generator drive pulleys.....a good thing. I never heard one in the case, though. |
500w self-starting DC generator anyone?
Glenn A. Heslop wrote:
Yes, but at $6K-$7K not under $1K such as these folks are suggesting...for a much smaller unit. Yeah, what he said. Plus, our design generates DC directly and is optimized for battery charging loads, making it much more efficient for charging. -- Chuck Cox - SynchroSystems - Synchro.com , my email is politician-proof, just remove the PORK |
500w self-starting DC generator anyone?
On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 10:54:07 -0500, Chuck Cox
wrote: Yeah, what he said. Plus, our design generates DC directly and is optimized for battery charging loads, making it much more efficient for charging. If the size and price are attractive, and it sounds like they are, people will buy it. Probably your biggest challenge will be to get it into the best distribution channels, which will also require good after market support or they will drop you. You will not believe the weird things that some people will try to do with a unit like this and then expect it to keep on ticking. Just for openers I would be prepared for a number of accidental reverse polarity incidents. Then you've got the folks who will try to use it indoors with the usual result, followed by the accidental muffler burns, fires, salt water immersion, etc. |
500w self-starting DC generator anyone?
Wayne.B wrote:
You will not believe the weird things that some people will try to do with a unit like this and then expect it to keep on ticking. Just for openers I would be prepared for a number of accidental reverse polarity incidents. Then you've got the folks who will try to use it indoors with the usual result, followed by the accidental muffler burns, fires, salt water immersion, etc. I know, that is what worries me most about this product. Since it incorporates a microcontroller, we intend to record diagnostic events, so hopefully we can detect abuse. We will certainly incorporate automatic protection for reversed polarity, shorts, over-voltage, over-current, over-temperature, etc, etc. If we want to sell in California I think we have to add a warning that it isn't safe to eat. I once attended a symposium where a ladder manufacturer explained the stupid user actions behind each warning sticker. I am wary, and our insurance agent could easily crush this product if it increases our insurance costs significantly beyond what we have already budgeted for. -- Chuck Cox - SynchroSystems - Synchro.com , my email is politician-proof, just remove the PORK |
500w self-starting DC generator anyone?
Chuck Cox wrote:
Wayne.B wrote: [snip] I know, that is what worries me most about this product. Since it incorporates a microcontroller, we intend to record diagnostic events, so hopefully we can detect abuse. We will certainly incorporate automatic protection for reversed polarity, shorts, over-voltage, over-current, over-temperature, etc, etc. If we want to sell in California I think we have to add a warning that it isn't safe to eat. I once attended a symposium where a ladder manufacturer explained the stupid user actions behind each warning sticker. I am wary, and our insurance agent could easily crush this product if it increases our insurance costs significantly beyond what we have already budgeted for. i admit i have done the reverse-polarity thing before. after doing a big install of radios in the truck i removed the deep cycle batteries so that i could install a little battery shelf i had made and service the batteries while i had them out. i was just finishing the install, putting heat shrink tubing on all the wires, soldering connectors on where i just had twisted wires, that kind of thing, and damn wouldn't you know it ... i put one of the deep cycle batteries into the truck backwards. i hooked the positive terminal up to the ground ... then i reached over, grabbed the hot wire, and hooked it to the negative terminal, and there was a huge ARC of electricity, like i was trying to do some welding. i hadn't gotten to the second battery yet, the first one was the one that was backwards from how it had been installed before. you can imagine the result, burned out both radios and an audio amplifier, basically everything i had been installing that week. had to send one radio back to the manufacturer, had to replace the amplifier, and took the other radio to a cb shop where a guy soldered it's melted board back together. he had to replace a coil and rebuild some of the traces on the circuit board. amazingly the manufacturer, even with a note describing that it was totally my fault, fixed the other radio and sent it back without any charge at all. i didn't even feel it was their responsibility. also the amplifier salesman replaced the busted amplifier (that i got locally) with another one without charge. in the end the only thing i had to pay for was the soldering job the guy at the cb shop had to do. in some ways i sort of felt like they should fix it though because reverse polarity just happens sometimes, and the radios should have burned a fuse or something instead of relying on a surface mount diode that isn't easilly replaced. |
500w self-starting DC generator anyone?
On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 17:39:58 -0500,
Chuck Cox wrote: Jim Richardson wrote: On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 16:06:11 -0500, Chuck Cox wrote: So, if you were to put such a system on your boat, what would you prefer? Diesel definately. I'd rather not deal with gasoline at all, since I don't have a gasoline aux or main, I don't want to haul it for a genset. Standalone would be preferable for me, but either way would work. What price point are you looking at? It'll probably cost about as much as a typical 1 kW genset. If we can't sell it for under $1k retail, we probably won't bother. Right now our engineering estimates have the MSRP below that. Competing with the little and quiet (although gas) honda's is gong to be tough. But good luck, and please keep us posted, I for one would be interested. We have no intention of competing with Honda, we will only proceed with this project if our market research indicates we have found a true niche. I see no reason why someone might not have both products for different purposes. Well, I have a 1500W inverter, so would likely be more interested in charging the batts, than buying the honda for AC stuff. But that's me. If it comes in at under $1000, I would definately be interested. -- Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock Yield to temptation; it may not pass your way again. -- Lazarus Long |
500w self-starting DC generator anyone?
On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 17:23:19 -0500,
Chuck Cox wrote: Peter Wiley wrote: In article , Chuck Cox wrote: Where would you envision operating such a system on your boat? Probably, depending on size, in a dedicated locker aft, sealed from the interior spaces similar to a locker for gas bottles. Tell me how big it's likely to be, how much ventilation it needs and I may have other ideas. If we use a fuel pump, it'll probably be about the size of a shoebox. If we use gravity, it'll be maybe 50% taller. If there is no integral tank, maybe 1/2 a shoebox. The intake and exhaust will probably be under 1" in diameter. For short runs, appropriate tubing of that diameter would suffice. You're looking at something about 12" long, and maybe 6" on width and height? really? heck, that sounds great. Or am I misunderstanding? -- Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock Noise proves nothing. Often a hen who has merely laid an egg cackles as if she laid an asteroid. -- Mark Twain |
500w self-starting DC generator anyone?
On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 05:36:23 GMT,
Glenn A. Heslop wrote: If I can buy a reliable unit for under $1K, install it in my engine room, cool with seawater, hook to existing fuel system, have an optional switch for on/off/auto, keep my battery bank charged, I will buy one...if works well, I will tell everyone I know. This is what I want...battery bank charging but not a large generator such as commonly seen on larger powerboats. Affordable quiet power. Glenn. s/v Seawing www.seawing.net ditto.... -- Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock Those who live by the sword are shot by those who don't. |
500w self-starting DC generator anyone?
"Chuck Cox" wrote in message ... Wayne.B wrote: You will not believe the weird things that some people will try to do with a unit like this and then expect it to keep on ticking. Just for openers I would be prepared for a number of accidental reverse polarity incidents. Then you've got the folks who will try to use it indoors with the usual result, followed by the accidental muffler burns, fires, salt water immersion, etc. I know, that is what worries me most about this product. Since it incorporates a microcontroller, we intend to record diagnostic events, so hopefully we can detect abuse. We will certainly incorporate automatic protection for reversed polarity, shorts, over-voltage, over-current, over-temperature, etc, etc. If we want to sell in California I think we have to add a warning that it isn't safe to eat. I once attended a symposium where a ladder manufacturer explained the stupid user actions behind each warning sticker. I am wary, and our insurance agent could easily crush this product if it increases our insurance costs significantly beyond what we have already budgeted for. -- Chuck Cox - SynchroSystems - Synchro.com , my email is politician-proof, just remove the PORK I've been following with interest your market research for this little generator. It sounds like a great product technically, but I think Wayne may have hit upon the real world implications of it's use as a consumer type product. Your small company will need to resolve problems that arise from some customers with no technical comprehension of what they are doing and somehow maintain a good reputation for responsive service. Not to throw a wet blanket on the concept, because it's good, but this is a prime example of something that will require product liability insurance. Depending on who you chose to underwrite a policy, it may force you to jack the price up significantly. Not to be nosey - and no need to answer if it's none of my business - but how are you funded? I have the impression of a small, startup company somehow connected to a university (Harvard). At some point in the development and introduction of this generator the question will come up. Is the development privately funded? How do you intend to market it? (May cost much more than the development costs). BTW, I am sure you realize that there are other consumer markets for a product like this that may be bigger than the boating industry. RCE |
500w self-starting DC generator anyone?
Jim Richardson wrote:
You're looking at something about 12" long, and maybe 6" on width and height? really? heck, that sounds great. Or am I misunderstanding? That's about right. -- Chuck Cox - SynchroSystems - Synchro.com , my email is politician-proof, just remove the PORK |
500w self-starting DC generator anyone?
RCE wrote:
I've been following with interest your market research for this little generator. It sounds like a great product technically, but I think Wayne may have hit upon the real world implications of it's use as a consumer type product. Your small company will need to resolve problems that arise from some customers with no technical comprehension of what they are doing and somehow maintain a good reputation for responsive service. Not to throw a wet blanket on the concept, because it's good, but this is a prime example of something that will require product liability insurance. Depending on who you chose to underwrite a policy, it may force you to jack the price up significantly. That is true. We have priced in a certain amount of insurance, but our estimates could be wrong. There is a bit of a chicken-and-egg problem in regards to product insurance pricing because you can't get a real quote until you have a real prototype and solid price-point. Not to be nosey - and no need to answer if it's none of my business - but how are you funded? We are privately funded. We have a small group of loyal investors that we have been good to over the last 22 years. I have the impression of a small, startup company somehow connected to a university (Harvard). SynchroSystems is not affiliated with any University although we have good relations with local schools because we occasionally hire interns to help us with non-technical stuff. I am a (very) part-time undergrad degree candidate at Harvard, hence my backup email address. My partner is an alumni of the trade school down the street (MIT), so we have close ties to those schools, but nothing official. We are small, but since we were founded in 1984, I'm not sure if we are a start-up. Although our in-house product development is new, we have been developing products for other companies for 22 years. At some point in the development and introduction of this generator the question will come up. Is the development privately funded? Yes. How do you intend to market it? (May cost much more than the development costs). That depends on what our market research indicates. We will certainly sell online, but other details remain TBD. A certain amount of marketing expense has already been priced in, but our market research will help refine that number. This is the kind of thing we hire an MBA student to figure out for us. BTW, I am sure you realize that there are other consumer markets for a product like this that may be bigger than the boating industry. Yes, this is really just a variation on something else we are working on for a non-boating application. -- Chuck Cox - SynchroSystems - Synchro.com , my email is politician-proof, just remove the PORK |
500w self-starting DC generator anyone?
"Chuck Cox" wrote in message ... RCE wrote: I've been following with interest your market research for this little generator. It sounds like a great product technically, but I think Wayne may have hit upon the real world implications of it's use as a consumer type product. Your small company will need to resolve problems that arise from some customers with no technical comprehension of what they are doing and somehow maintain a good reputation for responsive service. Not to throw a wet blanket on the concept, because it's good, but this is a prime example of something that will require product liability insurance. Depending on who you chose to underwrite a policy, it may force you to jack the price up significantly. That is true. We have priced in a certain amount of insurance, but our estimates could be wrong. There is a bit of a chicken-and-egg problem in regards to product insurance pricing because you can't get a real quote until you have a real prototype and solid price-point. Not to be nosey - and no need to answer if it's none of my business - but how are you funded? We are privately funded. We have a small group of loyal investors that we have been good to over the last 22 years. I have the impression of a small, startup company somehow connected to a university (Harvard). SynchroSystems is not affiliated with any University although we have good relations with local schools because we occasionally hire interns to help us with non-technical stuff. I am a (very) part-time undergrad degree candidate at Harvard, hence my backup email address. My partner is an alumni of the trade school down the street (MIT), so we have close ties to those schools, but nothing official. We are small, but since we were founded in 1984, I'm not sure if we are a start-up. Although our in-house product development is new, we have been developing products for other companies for 22 years. At some point in the development and introduction of this generator the question will come up. Is the development privately funded? Yes. How do you intend to market it? (May cost much more than the development costs). That depends on what our market research indicates. We will certainly sell online, but other details remain TBD. A certain amount of marketing expense has already been priced in, but our market research will help refine that number. This is the kind of thing we hire an MBA student to figure out for us. BTW, I am sure you realize that there are other consumer markets for a product like this that may be bigger than the boating industry. Yes, this is really just a variation on something else we are working on for a non-boating application. -- Chuck Cox - SynchroSystems - Synchro.com , my email is politician-proof, just remove the PORK Interesting company and potential new product. I wish you success. I am not far from you (Duxbury) and would be happy to be a beta site! :-) RCE |
500w self-starting DC generator anyone?
Me too...I'd be interested in a beta test.
Glenn. "RCE" wrote in message ... "Chuck Cox" wrote in message ... RCE wrote: I've been following with interest your market research for this little generator. It sounds like a great product technically, but I think Wayne may have hit upon the real world implications of it's use as a consumer type product. Your small company will need to resolve problems that arise from some customers with no technical comprehension of what they are doing and somehow maintain a good reputation for responsive service. Not to throw a wet blanket on the concept, because it's good, but this is a prime example of something that will require product liability insurance. Depending on who you chose to underwrite a policy, it may force you to jack the price up significantly. That is true. We have priced in a certain amount of insurance, but our estimates could be wrong. There is a bit of a chicken-and-egg problem in regards to product insurance pricing because you can't get a real quote until you have a real prototype and solid price-point. Not to be nosey - and no need to answer if it's none of my business - but how are you funded? We are privately funded. We have a small group of loyal investors that we have been good to over the last 22 years. I have the impression of a small, startup company somehow connected to a university (Harvard). SynchroSystems is not affiliated with any University although we have good relations with local schools because we occasionally hire interns to help us with non-technical stuff. I am a (very) part-time undergrad degree candidate at Harvard, hence my backup email address. My partner is an alumni of the trade school down the street (MIT), so we have close ties to those schools, but nothing official. We are small, but since we were founded in 1984, I'm not sure if we are a start-up. Although our in-house product development is new, we have been developing products for other companies for 22 years. At some point in the development and introduction of this generator the question will come up. Is the development privately funded? Yes. How do you intend to market it? (May cost much more than the development costs). That depends on what our market research indicates. We will certainly sell online, but other details remain TBD. A certain amount of marketing expense has already been priced in, but our market research will help refine that number. This is the kind of thing we hire an MBA student to figure out for us. BTW, I am sure you realize that there are other consumer markets for a product like this that may be bigger than the boating industry. Yes, this is really just a variation on something else we are working on for a non-boating application. -- Chuck Cox - SynchroSystems - Synchro.com , my email is politician-proof, just remove the PORK Interesting company and potential new product. I wish you success. I am not far from you (Duxbury) and would be happy to be a beta site! :-) RCE |
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:16 AM. |
|
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2014 BoatBanter.com