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#1
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posted to rec.boats.cruising
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![]() Jonathan Ganz wrote: In article , Jim Cate wrote: And most of those "real sailors," as you call them have never sailed a Mac. - A few have, but most wouldn't want to get on a Mac for fear that one of their "real sailor" buddies might see them and look down their noses at them. (I suggest that those who enjoy getting "atta-boys" by criticising the Macs on this ng should at least provide a disclaimer if they haven't sailed one of the recent (26M) models. In other words, a disclaimer telling us that they really don't know what the hell they are talking about.)br I have. I think their garbage boats. You're just upset because you bought a piece of junk. Which models have you sailed, and under what circumstances? Have you sailed the current model (the 26M)? They include several fairly significant changes. Bottom line: The Macs aren't ocean-crossing, blue water boats, but they are, nevertheless, still fun to sail. br YEah, in very protected waters, in very limited situations. Good for you.. enjoy your Mac. Very limited situations, in very protected waters? I agree that the Mac isn't a good choice for an ocean crossing, and that their owners need to know their boats' limitations, monitor the weather, etc. But if you check trip reports on some of the Mac discussion groups, you would see discussions from Mac owners who sail in a variety of waters in many interesting locations around the world. Those in California, where the boat is manufactured, sail in San Francisco Bay, often in high wind conditions. Those near LA sail and/or motor offshore to Catalina Island, etc. (They have the option of motoring out in two hours after work on a Friday, then spending two days of sailing and exploring the area, then returning by sail or motor Sunday afternoon or Monday morning.) - For example, according to one recent report, there were more than 10 Macs anchored at Catalina when the owner sailed there one weekend. Another report was from a Mac owner who has sailed on several extended trips near Marina Del Ray to the Channel Islands, from Oxnard. Of course, it's also true that some Mac owners sail in lakes.... like, Lake Ontario, Lake Michigan, etc. In New England, Mac owners sail from various areas up and down the coast, and, and between Cape Cod, Buzzards Bay, etc. In Florida, they sail offshore from Pensacola, or down the keys to Key West, and from Key West out to the Tortugas. Others have sailed to the Bahamas. In Europe, they sail in the Mediterranean, and in waters near the British Isles. Also, there seem to be lots of Macs sailing from Australia. Of course, with a Mac you aren't limited to sailing from one home port or sailing primarily in one region. If you have a week's vacation and want to go to somewhere new, you can easily trailer the boat to a port of your choice. E.g., north in the summer, and south in winter. So, you were saying that Macs are restricted to "very limited situations"? Really? - Seems to me that Mac owners have some pretty interesting options. Jim |
#2
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posted to rec.boats.cruising
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In article ,
Jim Cate wrote: I have. I think their garbage boats. You're just upset because you bought a piece of junk. Which models have you sailed, and under what circumstances? Have you sailed the current model (the 26M)? They include several fairly significant changes. If I told you, would you believe me... doubt it. Would you believe me if I told you that I know a major dealer of them in this area and even he thinks they're crap... doubt it. YEah, in very protected waters, in very limited situations. Good for you.. enjoy your Mac. Very limited situations, in very protected waters? I agree that the Mac isn't a good choice for an ocean crossing, and that their owners need to bs deleted It's nice when we agree. Of course, with a Mac you aren't limited to sailing from one home port or sailing primarily in one region. If you have a week's vacation and want to go to somewhere new, you can easily trailer the boat to a port of your choice. E.g., north in the summer, and south in winter. Yep. Put it on a trailer and go to a nice quiet lake. I'm sure that would be fine. So, you were saying that Macs are restricted to "very limited situations"? Really? - Seems to me that Mac owners have some pretty interesting options. Well, dumpster divers find pretty interesting things, but I wouldn't want to be one. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
#3
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![]() Jonathan Ganz wrote: In article , Jim Cate wrote: I have. I think their garbage boats. You're just upset because you bought a piece of junk. Which models have you sailed, and under what circumstances? Have you sailed the current model (the 26M)? They include several fairly significant changes. If I told you, would you believe me... doubt it. Try me. Would you believe me if I told you that I know a major dealer of them in this area and even he thinks they're crap... doubt it. Shouldn't he consider some other kind of work? - There doesn't seem to be a great deal of profit running a Mac dealership. YEah, in very protected waters, in very limited situations. Good for you.. enjoy your Mac. Very limited situations, in very protected waters? I agree that the Mac isn't a good choice for an ocean crossing, and that their owners need to bs deleted It's nice when we agree. Johnny, seems to me that, if the Macs are simply a pile of junk as you keep saying, we would see thousands of them breaking apart in any winds higher than 15 knots or so, and we would see reports of hundreds of skippers and passengers drowned or stranded on capsized boats. Particularly since the Macs have been one of the most popular lines ever made, with over 40,000 of them sold, reports of failures should be all over the place. I spend a lot of time on the Mac discussion groups, and I read lots of reports and sailing mags, and I don't remember seeing accounts of any Macs that simply fell apart, or any on which the owners or passengers were drowned, etc., other than the one in which a drunk skipper rolled an overloaded Mac 26X with no ballast. As in any boat, repairs are sometimes needed, but the Mac owners keep on sailing their boats year after year, and when they want to trade, most of them seem to buy a newer Mac.- In any event, with that many boats out there, and if they are just a pile of junk as you say, surely hundreds of them would have simply fallen apart or capsized by this time. So, it should be fairly easy for you to cite some statisticsbacking up your ridiculous assertions. Could you do that for us, Johnny? - If you aren't just blowing smoke, that is. Jim |
#4
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posted to rec.boats.cruising
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In article ,
Jim Cate wrote: Try me. Thanks, but no thanks. Would you believe me if I told you that I know a major dealer of them in this area and even he thinks they're crap... doubt it. Shouldn't he consider some other kind of work? - There doesn't seem to be a great deal of profit running a Mac dealership. On the contrary. He makes tons of money from people like you! A true capitalist. Johnny, seems to me that, if the Macs are simply a pile of junk as you keep saying, we would see thousands of them breaking apart in any winds Well, it seems to you. Particularly since the Macs have been one of the most popular lines ever made, with over 40,000 of them sold, reports of failures should be all over the place. I spend a lot of time on the Mac discussion groups, and McDonalds makes billions of burgers, but I wouldn't want to eat them on a regular basis. Perhaps too much time... I read lots of reports and sailing mags, and I don't remember seeing accounts of any Macs that simply fell apart, or any on which the owners or passengers were drowned, etc., other than the one in which a drunk skipper rolled an overloaded Mac 26X with no ballast. As in any boat, You're really obsessed with Macs breaking up... So, it should be fairly easy for you to cite some statisticsbacking up your ridiculous assertions. Could you do that for us, Johnny? - If you aren't just blowing smoke, that is. Assertions of what? They're junky, they look like it, they sail like it. There are no statistics needed. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
#5
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posted to rec.boats.cruising
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![]() Jonathan Ganz wrote: In article , Jim Cate wrote: Try me. Thanks, but no thanks. Would you believe me if I told you that I know a major dealer of them in this area and even he thinks they're crap... doubt it. Shouldn't he consider some other kind of work? - There doesn't seem to be a great deal of profit running a Mac dealership. On the contrary. He makes tons of money from people like you! A true capitalist. Then he must be selling other boats in addition to the Macs. (Right?) I don't see many Mac dealers making a big profit. - Most of them seem to be in because they like sailing and like the Macs. Johnny, seems to me that, if the Macs are simply a pile of junk as you keep saying, we would see thousands of them breaking apart in any winds Well, it seems to you. What are you saying, Johnnny? That they don't fall apart or break up? That even though you think the Macs are a pile of junk, they still just keep on sailing? - You're not making much sense. Particularly since the Macs have been one of the most popular lines ever made, with over 40,000 of them sold, reports of failures should be all over the place. I spend a lot of time on the Mac discussion groups, and McDonalds makes billions of burgers, but I wouldn't want to eat them on a regular basis. Perhaps too much time... You're missing the point again, Johnny. The fact that MacGregor sells lots of boats wasn't mentioned as evidence that their boats are of high quality (although they are). Instead, the point was that, with that many boats out there, and with thousands of owners, passengers, observers, reviewers, etc. aware of them, if they were inherently dangerous, or if they fell apart or capsized, etc., (if they were just a pile of junk, as you say), that fact would be well-known throughout the sailing community. - So far, however, you can't come up with any evidence or statistics to back up your ridiculous assertions. Kind of embarrassing John? I read lots of reports and sailing mags, and I don't remember seeing accounts of any Macs that simply fell apart, or any on which the owners or passengers were drowned, etc., other than the one in which a drunk skipper rolled an overloaded Mac 26X with no ballast. As in any boat, You're really obsessed with Macs breaking up... You're obsessed with calling them a pile of junk. Could you possibly come up with another term Johnny? So, it should be fairly easy for you to cite some statisticsbacking up your ridiculous assertions. Could you do that for us, Johnny? - If you aren't just blowing smoke, that is. Assertions of what? They're junky, they look like it, they sail like it. There are no statistics needed. If they were just a pile of junk, as you say, and if their rigging were not built appropriately for the loads, they would be failing, capsizing, and breaking up after a few months of use in moderate winds. - But they aren't, and that's why you are having trouble backing up your ridiculous statements. - Put up or shut up Johnny! Jim |
#6
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posted to rec.boats.cruising
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In article ,
Jim Cate wrote: Then he must be selling other boats in addition to the Macs. (Right?) I don't see many Mac dealers making a big profit. - Most of them seem to be in because they like sailing and like the Macs. No. He makes the money from the fools who buy the pieces of crap! Well, it seems to you. What are you saying, Johnnny? That they don't fall apart or break up? That even though you think the Macs are a pile of junk, they still just keep on sailing? - You're not making much sense. No. They mostly don't sail much of anywhere in the conditions that would cause them to break up and sink. McDonalds makes billions of burgers, but I wouldn't want to eat them on a regular basis. Perhaps too much time... You're missing the point again, Johnny. The fact that MacGregor sells lots of boats wasn't mentioned as evidence that their boats are of high quality (although they are). Instead, the point was that, with Gee, really? Seems like it to me, but feel free to try an justify your poor choice of boats. You're really obsessed with Macs breaking up... You're obsessed with calling them a pile of junk. Could you possibly come up with another term Johnny? At least I'm being accurate! Ok... they're composed of many pieces of junk! Assertions of what? They're junky, they look like it, they sail like it. There are no statistics needed. If they were just a pile of junk, as you say, and if their rigging were not built appropriately for the loads, they would be failing, capsizing, and breaking up after a few months of use in moderate winds. - But they aren't, and that's why you are having trouble backing up your ridiculous statements. - Put up or shut up Johnny! Their rigging is minimal at best. It's quite appropriate for protected waters found on some lakes. Any other place, and they won't last long. No problem backing up any of my statements, as they are my opinion based on observation.... Jimmmy. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
#7
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posted to rec.boats.cruising
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![]() Jonathan Ganz wrote: In article , Jim Cate wrote: Then he must be selling other boats in addition to the Macs. (Right?) I don't see many Mac dealers making a big profit. - Most of them seem to be in because they like sailing and like the Macs. No. He makes the money from the fools who buy the pieces of crap! Well, it seems to you. What are you saying, Johnnny? That they don't fall apart or break up? That even though you think the Macs are a pile of junk, they still just keep on sailing? - You're not making much sense. No. They mostly don't sail much of anywhere in the conditions that would cause them to break up and sink. McDonalds makes billions of burgers, but I wouldn't want to eat them on a regular basis. Perhaps too much time... You're missing the point again, Johnny. The fact that MacGregor sells lots of boats wasn't mentioned as evidence that their boats are of high quality (although they are). Instead, the point was that, with Gee, really? Seems like it to me, but feel free to try an justify your poor choice of boats. You're really obsessed with Macs breaking up... You're obsessed with calling them a pile of junk. Could you possibly come up with another term Johnny? At least I'm being accurate! Ok... they're composed of many pieces of junk! Assertions of what? They're junky, they look like it, they sail like it. There are no statistics needed. If they were just a pile of junk, as you say, and if their rigging were not built appropriately for the loads, they would be failing, capsizing, and breaking up after a few months of use in moderate winds. - But they aren't, and that's why you are having trouble backing up your ridiculous statements. - Put up or shut up Johnny! Their rigging is minimal at best. It's quite appropriate for protected waters found on some lakes. Any other place, and they won't last long. If their rigging is inadequate, then obviously the boats would be falling apart whenever they are taken out in any significant weather. With 40,000 of them out there, hundreds of the the boats would be lost or torn apart every year, and Mac owners and guests would be drowned or stranded every year. Yet that doesn't happen except in very rare instances. Where's your evidence that the Mac rigging is failing or coming apart, Johnny? What statistics do you have on the number of Macson on which the rigging failed? No problem backing up any of my statements, as they are my opinion based on observation.... Jimmmy. No problem backing up your statements Johnny? Then why don't you get busy and start? So far all you have done is post more of your ridiculous biased assertions, with nothing backing them up. Think about how that makes you look to others monitoring this discussion, John!. No problem backing up your statements? - Then have at it. Jim .. |
#8
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Jim Cate wrote:
... Have you sailed the current model (the 26M)? They include several fairly significant changes. You mean like the fancy new window shape & the (snicker) rotating mast? The only significant change I've noticed in the boat is that they put a bit more fiberglass on the transom, which needed it badly, and started putting in a stronger steering system so it no longer breaks every time the wind blows more than 12 knots. (sigh) the things they don't tell you in the advertising brochures! DSK |
#9
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![]() DSK wrote: Jim Cate wrote: ... Have you sailed the current model (the 26M)? They include several fairly significant changes. You mean like the fancy new window shape & the (snicker) rotating mast? The only significant change I've noticed in the boat is that they put a bit more fiberglass on the transom, which needed it badly, and started putting in a stronger steering system so it no longer breaks every time the wind blows more than 12 knots. (sigh) the things they don't tell you in the advertising brochures! DSK The M has a completely different hull, with deeper V, and uses a narrow dagger board instead of a pivotable keel. Because the keel doesn't pivot back into the hull, there is no six-foot recess or pocket in the hull for receiving the board, and no corresponding "hump" in the cabin floor. The mast is several feet higher, and the main has a more narrow profile. The hull has an additional layer of fiberglass. Additionally, the boat includes several hundred pounds of fixed ballast, in addition to the water ballast. There are a number of other changes to the cabin, cockpit, and exterior. Jim Jim |
#10
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The elitists here who feel that only "traditional" designs belong on
the water need to loosen their yachtie captains hats and get over the Mac26 and realize that it works very well enabling the less affluent among us to go sailing and to do far more sailing than those who mainly sail from yacht club bar stools. In spite of their apocryphal stories of Mac26 disasters they can never back up, I have read of many great Mac26 trips including the entire ICW, the inside passage to Alaska, Catalina, Bahamas. From what I can tell, the current Mac26 is built better than the original Hunters and some Beneteaus. As far as safety is concerned, it seems considerably safer than most power boats and a strong case can be made for it being safer than many other sail boats. |