Best small sb
 

Got a friend looking for a good small trailer sailboat. What's best in the
21 to 23 range? For instance, Catalina has made a gazillion C22's. Must say
something for them, altho some say they're not the best sailers.
So what is this groups opinion as the best?
Gordon



--

Ask not for whom the terrorist bell tolls; it tolls for thee, and thee, and
thee--for decent, innocent people everywhere.

"Gordon" wrote:
What's best in the 21 to 23 range?

Depends on your definition of "best". You want fast? Pointing
ability? Easy maintenance? Shallow draft? Lots of cabin space? Lots of
cockpit space? Status? Low cost? Bullet proof hull?
Everybody has different priorities and definitions of "best".

Catalina has made a gazillion C22's. Must say
something for them, altho some say they're not the best sailers.

Depends on your definition of "best".
C22s are fun little boats and they sail "nicely" for all but a few
serious racers and some armchair sailors/critics. I owned one and have
regretted selling it many times. They're inexpensive, low maintenance,
and have a good owner's network. Racing as a class, everybody's in the
same boat (pun intended) as far as pointing ability and speed.

Anyhow, I could say the same for quite a few other boats as well. Just
depends.

Rick

It's a silly question.

Thats really helpful - what exactly would compel you to waste your time
posting that ?

Gordon:

In my opinion (which is what you asked for) ALL Catalinas (up until the
past few years which I cant comment on because I have not sailed them) , are
mediocre sailers at best. They are not the worst (Buccaneer, Reinell), and
they are not the best. They are however generally well built and seem to
last a long time.

Cal 20's were probably one of the most popular boats EVER in that size
range in my neck of the woods - personally, i dont like them, they are very
small inside, but they do sail reasonably well (slightly better i would say
than the catalina).

If u want new - hunter makes some trailerables , in paricular a 25 that is
quite a nice boat. Again, hunter not known for tremendous sailing
characteristics, but they perform probably better than the older cals and
catalinas. Catalina also makes some 22-25's 'new' as well, that probably
are about the same as the hunter for performance. The fact is the newer
boats, even the ones that arent as 'racy' designs, are still better sailers
than the older ones, just due to the technology advances.

In our area, the MacGregor is amazingly popular trailerable boat - I had a
friend who owned one and despite the fact that I wanted to hate it - it was
actually not so bad... Not the best sailor in the world, but certainly
wasnt as bad as I thought it was going to be. Its 26 feet though and pretty
big when towing - but it is quite light.

Gordon wrote:
Got a friend looking for a good small trailer sailboat. What's best in the
21 to 23 range? For instance, Catalina has made a gazillion C22's. Must say
something for them, altho some say they're not the best sailers.
So what is this groups opinion as the best?

Best in what respect?

The Catalina 22 is the most numerous, so buying one of those validates
your choice as a consumer.

Another popular choice is a West Wight Potter 19, smaller than what you
state but as roomy as most 22 footers and easier to trailer. Very stable
too, which is a good quality in a small boat.

The U.S. 21 (later sold as a Pearson Triton 21) is a mini sled, lift
keel speedster, not many around though. Another similar is the Holder
20. If you want a boat that's easier to find and don't mind a higher
price tag, the Ultimate 20 is more modern and probably faster yet.

If you like tradition, you might like a Cornish Crabber flush-deck gaff
cutter; or a Bay Hen gaff sharpie. Both are fun boats with a lot of appeal.

The best starting point is probably to check the trailering weight
capacity of your tow vehicle.

Below is a partial list of possibilities. There have probably been over
a thousand types of 20 to 22 foot trailerable sailboats produced & marketed.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Seaward Fox
Farr 6000
Mirage 5.5
Etap 20 (6.05)
Ensenada 20
Kent Ranger
Sovereign 20
Balboa 20
Sun Fast 20
Southwind 21
Skipper 20
Skimmer 20
Chrysler 20
COM-PAC 19XL
Windrose 20
Nimble Vagabond
Holder 20
Harpoon 6.2
Cal 21
San Juan 21
Precision 21
Islander 21
Nimble 20
Buccaneer 210
Clipper Marine 21
Ultimate 20
Bay Hen 21
Venture 21
Victory 21
SR 21
Hunter 212
Aquarius 21
Balboa 21
American 21
Beneteau First 210
AMF 2100
Mistral 21
Halman 21
Sirius 21/22
HOBIE 21
Muskeget 21
US 21
Santana 21
Spirit 21
Spirit 6.5
Sun Way 21
South Coast 21
Noelex 22
Dovekie
Lindenberg 22
Windrose 22
CS 22
Laguna 22
Gloucester 22
Dehler 22
Sea Pearl 21
Freedom 21
Seafarer 22
Beneteau First 235
CHRYSLER 22
O'Day 222
Edel 665
O'DAY 22
D & M 22
Maine Cat 22
Rocket 22
South Coast 22
Lark (Pearson)
Venture 222
Sailors Haven 22
Merit 22
Venture/MacGregor 22
Cal 22
Schock 22
S2 6.7
S2 6.9
CAPRI 22
Buccaneer 220
US 22
Helsen 22
Starwind 22
Rhodes 22
Eagle
Falmouth Cutter 22
Kells 23
Starwind 223
Hunter 22
TANZER 22

DSK wrote:
snip...
Below is a partial list of possibilities. There have probably been over
a thousand types of 20 to 22 foot trailerable sailboats produced &
marketed.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Seaward Fox
Farr 6000
Mirage 5.5
Etap 20 (6.05)
snip...

And if you're anywhere near the Canadian border, here's a few to ponder..
note: mine is the 'Sandpiper 565'
http://sailquest.com/market/models/index.htm

Gordon wrote:
Got a friend looking for a good small trailer sailboat.

Halman or Nordica look quite nice

If you are seriously considering such a teenie vessel may I suggest you
buy a paper bag to place over your heads as you launch and sail said
vessel? Truly you understand you will NOT be accepted by the BIG boat
crowd. Dont expect a warm welcome.

prodigal1 wrote:
Gordon wrote:

Got a friend looking for a good small trailer sailboat.


Halman or Nordica look quite nice

Those boats are starting to get a little heavy for frequent trailering.
That is...unless the buyer has a big 4 wheel drive.
Even my Sandpiper 565 at 1200 lbs + outboard + trailer is heavy for my
mini-van.

Meye5 wrote:
If you are seriously considering such a teenie vessel may I suggest you
buy a paper bag to place over your heads as you launch and sail said
vessel? Truly you understand you will NOT be accepted by the BIG boat
crowd. Dont expect a warm welcome.

Bull****! He should be proud that he's a sensible responsible sailor
who owns the best sized boat for his use.
I'd nudge right up in-between them and laugh thinking of their monthly
payments, docking fees, maintenance costs etc.

Don White wrote:
prodigal1 wrote:

Gordon wrote:

Got a friend looking for a good small trailer sailboat.



Halman or Nordica look quite nice


Those boats are starting to get a little heavy for frequent trailering.
That is...unless the buyer has a big 4 wheel drive.
Even my Sandpiper 565 at 1200 lbs + outboard + trailer is heavy for my
mini-van.
yeah, I guess I was focussing too heavily on the "good" part

Hey Meye5, that is the most arrogant piece of crap i have ever read in this
group. i have occasionally seen a disdainful look from the same sort of
arsehole as you and I generally fart in your direction. what a pompous ass.

"Don White" wrote in message
...
Meye5 wrote:
If you are seriously considering such a teenie vessel may I suggest you
buy a paper bag to place over your heads as you launch and sail said
vessel? Truly you understand you will NOT be accepted by the BIG boat
crowd. Dont expect a warm welcome.

Bull****! He should be proud that he's a sensible responsible sailor
who owns the best sized boat for his use.
I'd nudge right up in-between them and laugh thinking of their monthly
payments, docking fees, maintenance costs etc.

what piece of crap do you sail croberts? dont fart in my direction or i
will light it with a bic.

croberts wrote:
Hey Meye5, that is the most arrogant piece of crap i have ever read in this
group. i have occasionally seen a disdainful look from the same sort of
arsehole as you and I generally fart in your direction. what a pompous ass.


Don't worry about the Meywhatsit dickhead, mate, just killfile it.
It'll be some kid posting on mum's computer. Until I killfiled it all I
ever saw it post was puerile crap.

How's the search for something a bit bigger going?
JM

Best small sb
 

In article ,
"Gordon" wrote:

Got a friend looking for a good small trailer sailboat. What's best
in the 21 to 23 range? For instance, Catalina has made a gazillion
C22's. Must say something for them, altho some say they're not the
best sailers.

So what is this groups opinion as the best?


The Catalina's a great boat. I like the Rhodes a bit more, and they're
still being produced if he wants to pay for new.

We had a MacGregor 21 (not the Venture, but the newer version) that
served us well for a decade. It is probably the lightest and draws the
least, which is handy if you like to go anywhere.

BUT, take a look at the Tanzer 22, either fin or swing keel. They're
fast, comfortable, and forgiving; perhaps the best blend of qualities
for that size boat. An incredible selling point is the newlist:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tanzer/ If you have a question about ANY
aspect of the boat, you'll get as good information as can be had.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Best small sb
 

Gordon wrote:
Got a friend looking for a good small trailer sailboat.

Okay, I'll jump in again. Check out the Shark. 24 ft. Hinterholler
design. Freakin' stinkin' fast and if made in the Hinterhoeller shop,
built like tanks. Can be used as a light cruising boat -no stnading
headroom :-(, or as a giant killer in your local racing fleet.

Best small sb
 

prodigal1 wrote:
Gordon wrote:

Got a friend looking for a good small trailer sailboat.


Okay, I'll jump in again. Check out the Shark. 24 ft. Hinterholler
design. Freakin' stinkin' fast and if made in the Hinterhoeller shop,
built like tanks. Can be used as a light cruising boat -no stnading
headroom :-(, or as a giant killer in your local racing fleet.


Again...a bit heavy and with a fixed keel, not the easiest to trailer
around.
http://sailquest.com/market/models/shark.htm

Best small sb
 

On Fri, 07 Oct 2005 18:50:52 -0400, prodigal1 wrote:

Gordon wrote:
Got a friend looking for a good small trailer sailboat.

Okay, I'll jump in again. Check out the Shark. 24 ft. Hinterholler
design. Freakin' stinkin' fast and if made in the Hinterhoeller shop,
built like tanks. Can be used as a light cruising boat -no stnading
headroom :-(, or as a giant killer in your local racing fleet.

Great boats! I used to race on one.

Still, you should keep in mind that they are slugs in light wind, and
that the fixed keel makes them difficult to ramp launch.

They are great sailing fun, but they wouldn't be my first cruising
choice...

Ryk

Best small sb
 

Ryk wrote:

Great boats! I used to race on one.

my first ride ever, on Lake St. Clair

Still, you should keep in mind that they are slugs in light wind,

light wind + Shark = beer swilling time, dockside or deckside
15kts+ = time to rock and roll baby

and
that the fixed keel makes them difficult to ramp launch.

such a minor inconvenience measured against the fun to ensue

They are great sailing fun, but they wouldn't be my first cruising
choice...

well granted, but the OP is looking for a _good_ trailerable boat
I'm focussing on the good part here

Best small sb
 

Gorden--

What does your friend intend to do with the boat and where does he
inted to sail it. I live in Ventura and lots of people take a Catalina
25 or 22 out to the Channel islands for the weekend.

I haven't sailed a Mac 26 but I can tell you that no boat comes under
greater derision. Many sailors have an almost pathological dislike for
the boat. Again, I haven't sailed one so I don't know how justified
the mockery is-- just givng you the scoop.

How much Lettuce ($$$) does your buddy have. There is an A W E S O M
E 28' trailerable trimarine. If I ever unload my current boat I'd try
to score one of those. For the life of me I can't remember the name of
them. . . . anybody else know what I'm talking about? The hulls fold
up to get towed. . .

B

Best small sb
 

"Whistledown" wrote:
There is an A W E S O M
E 28' trailerable trimarine. If I ever unload my current boat I'd try
to score one of those. For the life of me I can't remember the name of
them. . . . anybody else know what I'm talking about? The hulls fold
up to get towed.

Among other models, Corsair builds a 28, Is that what you're thinking
of?

http://www.corsairmarine.com

PhantMan

Best small sb
 

Bingo. The Cosair 24 is a handy boat that I've seen hauling ass.
Accomadations are plenty fine for a weekend out.

Best small sb
 

"Whistledown" wrote in
oups.com:

I haven't sailed a Mac 26 but I can tell you that no boat comes under
greater derision. Many sailors have an almost pathological dislike for
the boat. Again, I haven't sailed one so I don't know how justified
the mockery is-- just givng you the scoop.


I find the less wood they have on them, making them a pain in the ass to
sand and paint...continuously it seems...the more derision they get. Wood
trimmed boats are pretty....unless you work all week and want to go SAILING
on weekends, not working your ass off in the "dockside wood shop" all
weekend.

Maybe the woodie boys make these derisive remarks out of jealously as the
boys with the cheap boats are always casting off lines and going
SAILING....when they are buzzing up and down those beautiful wood parts
with their little sanders all covered in last month's varnish powder...(c;

--
Larry

Tell your buddy to buy a simple sailboat with AS LITTLE WOODEN PARTS AS
POSSIBLE!!

God I hate sanding......almost as much as LAWN MOWING!

Best small sb
 

I've seen a couple of those at the marina. Have to try to hitch a ride one
of these days.
First one I saw threw me as I didn't know it folded up and I didn't
understand how he got in and out of his particular slip without everyone
else leaving first.

Gordon

"Whistledown" wrote in message
oups.com...
Bingo. The Cosair 24 is a handy boat that I've seen hauling ass.
Accomadations are plenty fine for a weekend out.

Best small sb
 

Isn't there 2 different models of Mac 26? A pure sailing rig and a large
motor rigged type? I think the motorized rig won't point up well. if at all.
Gordon
"Larry" wrote in message
...
"Whistledown" wrote in
oups.com:

I haven't sailed a Mac 26 but I can tell you that no boat comes under
greater derision. Many sailors have an almost pathological dislike for
the boat. Again, I haven't sailed one so I don't know how justified
the mockery is-- just givng you the scoop.


I find the less wood they have on them, making them a pain in the ass to
sand and paint...continuously it seems...the more derision they get. Wood
trimmed boats are pretty....unless you work all week and want to go
SAILING
on weekends, not working your ass off in the "dockside wood shop" all
weekend.

Maybe the woodie boys make these derisive remarks out of jealously as the
boys with the cheap boats are always casting off lines and going
SAILING....when they are buzzing up and down those beautiful wood parts
with their little sanders all covered in last month's varnish powder...(c;

--
Larry

Tell your buddy to buy a simple sailboat with AS LITTLE WOODEN PARTS AS
POSSIBLE!!

God I hate sanding......almost as much as LAWN MOWING!

Best small sb
 

I think you're right. I saw a Mac 26 with a H U G E outboard. I
mean H U G E. The engine part had to be 5 feet tall. They were
making about 25 knots with their sail flapping around doing nothing.
It's sights like these that don't help Mac owners shake any stigma they
have.

But Gordon, have your buddy look into that Cosair 24 trimarine. One of
those is as commodious as a Mac and can sail cirlcles around bigger
boats like a Catalina 30. Also, they don't have much wood.

b

Best small sb
 

One of my favorites is the Bayfield 25 with inboard diesel and full solid
keel. Its a proven cruising boat for the coast and the great lakes. The
bad side is its not good for club racing around the buoys. The long keel
does not turn as fast as a fin keel. However, with 10 gals of fuel and the
1 cylinder yanmar you have about 40 hours of running time. It trailers well
on long distances. It takes about one to two hours to set the mast up with
lots of drill and skills. It is not the type of boat good for a weekend at
the lake. People I know tow this type of boat on long distance like
Montreal to the Bras d'ors lakes, the coast of Maine and Nova Scotia.

"Whistledown" wrote in message
oups.com...
I think you're right. I saw a Mac 26 with a H U G E outboard. I
mean H U G E. The engine part had to be 5 feet tall. They were
making about 25 knots with their sail flapping around doing nothing.
It's sights like these that don't help Mac owners shake any stigma they
have.

But Gordon, have your buddy look into that Cosair 24 trimarine. One of
those is as commodious as a Mac and can sail cirlcles around bigger
boats like a Catalina 30. Also, they don't have much wood.

b