Roller reefing
 

Most jib systems have two slots for 2 sails. How many cruisers actually
use 2 jibs that often. Why don't the makers make single slot options
(besides Profurl)?
Gordon

--

Ask not for whom the terrorist bell tolls; it tolls for thee, and thee, and
thee--for decent, innocent people everywhere.

I have a Harken furler system which has the double luff tape slots.. I have
never noted any advantage or disadvantage to have one or two slots.

I have two head sails that are of near identical size and have considered
trying this for downwind sailing, rather than a spinniker. In thinking this
out, a person would have to hoist both on the head swivel and then adjust
the clew pennant at the swivel on the furler drum. The most difficult part
would be to feed both at the sametime. Shouldn't be to difficult if you had
a pre-feeder for each (about 25-30 bucks each).

If your not interested in setting such a sail(s) then I can't see any
disadvantage to having the extra slot. For me it doesn't bother me since I
try to leave a half or full turn on the foil (to take the strain off the
luff tape).

Besides, kinda nice to have the extra groove incase one gets 'buggered up'
or fouled buy ripped out luff tape.

I'm not loosing any sleep over it. (well I guess I am, since it is near mid
nite)


--
My experience and opinion, FWIW
--
Steve
s/v Good Intentions

Steve wrote:
I have a Harken furler system which has the double luff tape slots.. I have
never noted any advantage or disadvantage to have one or two slots.

I also have a Harken. I suppose I paid a few bucks extra for the
double slot, but I figure it might survive some damage that would do
in a single slot system.

Funny, I've never carried more than one jib, so I never thought about
raising two. Of course, the boat I owned the longest was a Nonsuch,
and virtually all of my racing was in small boats, so this is no surprise!


I have two head sails that are of near identical size and have considered
trying this for downwind sailing, rather than a spinniker. In thinking this
out, a person would have to hoist both on the head swivel and then adjust
the clew pennant at the swivel on the furler drum. The most difficult part
would be to feed both at the sametime. Shouldn't be to difficult if you had
a pre-feeder for each (about 25-30 bucks each).


Why do both have to be on the swivel? This would allow both to be
wound up, but couldn't you simply hoist the second after the first is
up, and lower when you're done? Or am I missing something?


If your not interested in setting such a sail(s) then I can't see any
disadvantage to having the extra slot. For me it doesn't bother me since I
try to leave a half or full turn on the foil (to take the strain off the
luff tape).

yup.
Besides, kinda nice to have the extra groove incase one gets 'buggered up'
or fouled buy ripped out luff tape.

yup.
I'm not loosing any sleep over it. (well I guess I am, since it is near mid
nite)

yup.

Hi guys,

The answer is much simpler than you might expect. If you were racing boys
then you would know that the twin foil is used to change a head sail size
whilst under way without loss of down time. i.e. hoist it inside the
existing head sail. Why don't they just reef?? I hear you say. Well you'd
spoil the leading edge into the wind with a bulky roll of sail. Me, I just
cruise with a single track roller reefing set up.

regards Aleck


"Gordon" wrote in message
...
Most jib systems have two slots for 2 sails. How many cruisers actually
use 2 jibs that often. Why don't the makers make single slot options
(besides Profurl)?
Gordon

--

Ask not for whom the terrorist bell tolls; it tolls for thee, and thee,
and
thee--for decent, innocent people everywhere.

Nah! To answer both:

You can only hoist two sails on the foil it you attach them both to the
upper swivel at the same time. What a mess if you tried to hoist the second
one on a separate halyard.

The Harken (my model) has a swivel at the head of the sail and one just
above the furler drum. This allows the foil to be rotated and take in the
sail by its luff tape. (drum drives the foil, not the clew/head swivel) This
makes for a better setting luff when partially reefed down.

A sail that is reefed down by simply rotating the clew and head (and luff
tape tension) will have a baggy shaped luff due to the loose sail material
just behind the luff tape.

IMHO. A modern roller furler that is to act as a roller reefing system
should have a head swivel and a clew swivel for the reasons stated.

My opinion, FWIW.

Steve
s/v Good Intentions


"Aleck" wrote in message
...
Hi guys,

The answer is much simpler than you might expect. If you were racing
boys
then you would know that the twin foil is used to change a head sail size
whilst under way without loss of down time. i.e. hoist it inside the
existing head sail. Why don't they just reef?? I hear you say. Well
you'd
spoil the leading edge into the wind with a bulky roll of sail. Me, I
just
cruise with a single track roller reefing set up.

regards Aleck


"Gordon" wrote in message
...
Most jib systems have two slots for 2 sails. How many cruisers actually
use 2 jibs that often. Why don't the makers make single slot options
(besides Profurl)?
Gordon

--

Ask not for whom the terrorist bell tolls; it tolls for thee, and thee,
and
thee--for decent, innocent people everywhere.

Wow! What a brain Fart!

I have been using the sail term 'clew' when I really meant 'TACK' ..

I really know the difference and want to correct my error before the whole
group Flames Me!

Steve

"Steve" wrote in message
...
Nah! To answer both:

You can only hoist two sails on the foil it you attach them both to the
upper swivel at the same time. What a mess if you tried to hoist the
second one on a separate halyard.

The Harken (my model) has a swivel at the head of the sail and one just
above the furler drum. This allows the foil to be rotated and take in the
sail by its luff tape. (drum drives the foil, not the clew/head swivel)
This makes for a better setting luff when partially reefed down.

A sail that is reefed down by simply rotating the clew and head (and luff
tape tension) will have a baggy shaped luff due to the loose sail material
just behind the luff tape.

IMHO. A modern roller furler that is to act as a roller reefing system
should have a head swivel and a clew swivel for the reasons stated.

My opinion, FWIW.

Steve
s/v Good Intentions


"Aleck" wrote in message
...
Hi guys,

The answer is much simpler than you might expect. If you were racing
boys
then you would know that the twin foil is used to change a head sail size
whilst under way without loss of down time. i.e. hoist it inside the
existing head sail. Why don't they just reef?? I hear you say. Well
you'd
spoil the leading edge into the wind with a bulky roll of sail. Me, I
just
cruise with a single track roller reefing set up.

regards Aleck


"Gordon" wrote in message
...
Most jib systems have two slots for 2 sails. How many cruisers
actually
use 2 jibs that often. Why don't the makers make single slot options
(besides Profurl)?
Gordon

--

Ask not for whom the terrorist bell tolls; it tolls for thee, and thee,
and
thee--for decent, innocent people everywhere.

"Steve" wrote in message
...
the clew pennant at the swivel on the furler drum. The most difficult part


Should be "Tack Pennant" rather than "Clew Pennant".

Sorry, it was mid nite.

Steve

Thanks for the comment and correction Steve. Maybe I jumped in too soon.
I don't have sufficient knowledge of the various roller reefing systems to
be sure but assume some systems do allow use of both tracks otherwise why
are they present. I'll make enquiries of my racing friends when I'm next at
the boat.
regards Aleck


"Steve" wrote in message
...
Wow! What a brain Fart!

I have been using the sail term 'clew' when I really meant 'TACK' ..

I really know the difference and want to correct my error before the whole
group Flames Me!

Steve

"Steve" wrote in message
...
Nah! To answer both:

You can only hoist two sails on the foil it you attach them both to the
upper swivel at the same time. What a mess if you tried to hoist the
second one on a separate halyard.

The Harken (my model) has a swivel at the head of the sail and one just
above the furler drum. This allows the foil to be rotated and take in
the
sail by its luff tape. (drum drives the foil, not the clew/head swivel)
This makes for a better setting luff when partially reefed down.

A sail that is reefed down by simply rotating the clew and head (and
luff
tape tension) will have a baggy shaped luff due to the loose sail
material
just behind the luff tape.

IMHO. A modern roller furler that is to act as a roller reefing system
should have a head swivel and a clew swivel for the reasons stated.

My opinion, FWIW.

Steve
s/v Good Intentions


"Aleck" wrote in message
...
Hi guys,

The answer is much simpler than you might expect. If you were racing
boys
then you would know that the twin foil is used to change a head sail
size
whilst under way without loss of down time. i.e. hoist it inside the
existing head sail. Why don't they just reef?? I hear you say. Well
you'd
spoil the leading edge into the wind with a bulky roll of sail. Me, I
just
cruise with a single track roller reefing set up.

regards Aleck


"Gordon" wrote in message
...
Most jib systems have two slots for 2 sails. How many cruisers
actually
use 2 jibs that often. Why don't the makers make single slot options
(besides Profurl)?
Gordon

--

Ask not for whom the terrorist bell tolls; it tolls for thee, and
thee,
and
thee--for decent, innocent people everywhere.

Aleck wrote:

Thanks for the comment and correction Steve. Maybe I jumped in too soon.
I don't have sufficient knowledge of the various roller reefing systems to
be sure but assume some systems do allow use of both tracks otherwise why
are they present. I'll make enquiries of my racing friends when I'm next at
the boat.
regards Aleck


There are two slots because it became a competitive issue, and it
costs the same to produce one slot as two, though sellers would
charge extra for two if they could.

I cannot see actually using both much, given that furler users are
apparently too lazy to understand or utilize the advantages of hanks.

Terry K

Steve wrote:
Wow! What a brain Fart!

I have been using the sail term 'clew' when I really meant 'TACK' ..

I really know the difference and want to correct my error before the whole
group Flames Me!

Steve

Thanks for clearing that up!
I thought there was some kind of new-fangled hardware out there and
couldn't figure out how it worked.

Using 2 slots for 2 headsails downwind is pretty common. It is a pain to
handle.
Racers use 2-slot foils without roller furling alot.

Doug

"Steve" wrote in message
...
I have a Harken furler system which has the double luff tape slots.. I have
never noted any advantage or disadvantage to have one or two slots.

I have two head sails that are of near identical size and have considered
trying this for downwind sailing, rather than a spinniker. In thinking
this out, a person would have to hoist both on the head swivel and then
adjust the clew pennant at the swivel on the furler drum. The most
difficult part would be to feed both at the sametime. Shouldn't be to
difficult if you had a pre-feeder for each (about 25-30 bucks each).

If your not interested in setting such a sail(s) then I can't see any
disadvantage to having the extra slot. For me it doesn't bother me since I
try to leave a half or full turn on the foil (to take the strain off the
luff tape).

Besides, kinda nice to have the extra groove incase one gets 'buggered up'
or fouled buy ripped out luff tape.

I'm not loosing any sleep over it. (well I guess I am, since it is near
mid nite)


--
My experience and opinion, FWIW
--
Steve
s/v Good Intentions

Well, as others have said:
1) It costs the same to extrude 2 grooves as one.
2) When racing you make a headsail change by running the new jib up on the
free groove then lowering the old sail. Remember to match the halyard to the
groove, port to port and starboard to starboard or you will twist your
halyards.
3) Sure you can raise a second jib without using the upper swivel but you
will not be able roll either jib in this configuration. You need to lower
the second jib to roll the first.
4) I like hanks but good roller furling has been well tested and is pretty
durable.

Good luck


"Don White" wrote in message
...
Steve wrote:
Wow! What a brain Fart!

I have been using the sail term 'clew' when I really meant 'TACK' ..

I really know the difference and want to correct my error before the
whole group Flames Me!

Steve

Thanks for clearing that up!
I thought there was some kind of new-fangled hardware out there and
couldn't figure out how it worked.

Bryan wrote:
Well, as others have said:
1) It costs the same to extrude 2 grooves as one.
2) When racing you make a headsail change by running the new jib up on the
free groove then lowering the old sail. Remember to match the halyard to the
groove, port to port and starboard to starboard or you will twist your
halyards.
3) Sure you can raise a second jib without using the upper swivel but you
will not be able roll either jib in this configuration. You need to lower
the second jib to roll the first.
4) I like hanks but good roller furling has been well tested and is pretty
durable.

Good luck


One needs to consider the eventual breakdown of any equipment. It
does go beyond convenience and cost, however.

Somehow furling a too large jib one way or another, is critical as
the wind increases, as can be a crew shortage.

If I can pull a line to furl or douse, how then do I raise a
suitable sized jib singlehanded, or with a small crew? I don't ever
want to sail upwind with a bag for a jib, it is the most important sail.

Swapping sails using a furler with no large crew seems a pain, as is
the furler itself. It is easier for one crew to hank on a
replacement, retreat to the cockpit and hoist it than to corral and
feed a replacement and hoist it from the foredeck.

It's safer using a jib pull down line and hanks than a furler when
conditions get hairy enough to convince you you left reefing too
late, but it must be done, now.

Terry K

"Don White" wrote in message
...

Steve wrote:

Wow! What a brain Fart!

I have been using the sail term 'clew' when I really meant 'TACK' ..

I really know the difference and want to correct my error before the
whole group Flames Me!

Steve


Thanks for clearing that up!
I thought there was some kind of new-fangled hardware out there and
couldn't figure out how it worked.

Hello Terry,

Well, that's what the inner forestay is for. We don't sail with a partially
furled jib. We do carry smaller jibs hanked to an inner forestay for the
conditions you mention. Will the furler ever fail? It may but I have also
had halyards jump sheaves and heads jammed when they were ground into the
mast head. In either circumstance a trip to the top was required to fix the
problem.

When it comes to roller furling jibs I'm willing to risk a possible failure
for the benefit is provides. I can't say that about main furling systems
today but who knows maybe I'll feel differently about those in the future.
I guess what I'm saying is maintain your gear, be somewhat prudent, and have
a plan for when stuff does not work as advertised.

Fair winds,

Bryan


"Terry Spragg" wrote in message
...
Bryan wrote:
Well, as others have said:
1) It costs the same to extrude 2 grooves as one.
2) When racing you make a headsail change by running the new jib up on
the free groove then lowering the old sail. Remember to match the halyard
to the groove, port to port and starboard to starboard or you will twist
your halyards.
3) Sure you can raise a second jib without using the upper swivel but you
will not be able roll either jib in this configuration. You need to
lower the second jib to roll the first.
4) I like hanks but good roller furling has been well tested and is
pretty durable.

Good luck


One needs to consider the eventual breakdown of any equipment. It does go
beyond convenience and cost, however.

Somehow furling a too large jib one way or another, is critical as the
wind increases, as can be a crew shortage.

If I can pull a line to furl or douse, how then do I raise a suitable
sized jib singlehanded, or with a small crew? I don't ever want to sail
upwind with a bag for a jib, it is the most important sail.

Swapping sails using a furler with no large crew seems a pain, as is the
furler itself. It is easier for one crew to hank on a replacement, retreat
to the cockpit and hoist it than to corral and feed a replacement and
hoist it from the foredeck.

It's safer using a jib pull down line and hanks than a furler when
conditions get hairy enough to convince you you left reefing too late, but
it must be done, now.

Terry K

"Don White" wrote in message
...

Steve wrote:

Wow! What a brain Fart!

I have been using the sail term 'clew' when I really meant 'TACK' ..

I really know the difference and want to correct my error before the
whole group Flames Me!

Steve


Thanks for clearing that up!
I thought there was some kind of new-fangled hardware out there and
couldn't figure out how it worked.