wrote in message
ups.com...
I also thought about this years ago. mostly for a masthead float for a
trimaran. I considered using calcium carbide that reacts with water to
produce LOTS of acetylene gas that would seriously inflate some kind of
bag. Of course acetylene can be explosive with a spark but you are
sinking anyway....... The calcium carbide would be fairly easy to
store as it comes as rock-like chunks but produces copious volumes of
gas.

I have also considerd adding foam floatation to my boat. She has many
little areas that are never used for anything whose total volume might
be enough.


Why do you need a masthead float for a trimaran?
If your tri is any bigger than say 16ft, the only thing you would
accomplish, is breaking the mast.
A tri is designed to lay turtle, in the unlikely event she flips, providing
a huge life raft.
On her side. she would just present a huge bottom to be blown around by the
wind.
You have to really try hard to flip any decent sized tri.



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Larry,

You should consider converting to R134A. It works well, and can be purchased for
around ~3$-5$/can at any auto parts store. You can also buy it in 30lb canisters
without a license. The only downside to converting an old system designed for R12
or R22 is that you will need a new expansion valve. Also you may need a new compressor
to develop the higher pressure needed if your old compressor is tired.

If you want to be able to directly read the temperatures, you'll need a new set of
guages also, so there is some expense to converting over. However, when you are done
with the conversion you are back to the days of cheap and legal freon :-). Over time
you'll spend more than the conversion cost keeping an old R12 system going.


Don W.


Larry wrote:
wrote in
ups.com:


I have also considerd adding foam floatation to my boat. She has many
little areas that are never used for anything whose total volume might
be enough.




Airbags deployed with liquid freon would be very compact to store, non-
flammable and storage is at low pressure, unlike CO2. That'd work as soon
as you got past the government bureaucrats hell bent on maximizing freon
profits for a few big chemical companies.

My last batch of R-12 smuggled in from Aruba was made in Tennesee! We
Americans just can't buy it.

Many interesting comments and hints; thank you.

Would like to post these questions based on all the prior responses:

1) Has anyone out there used , seen or had experiences with
"yachtsaver"bags?
Manufacturer is out of business but the idea doesn't sound to bad? Any
Comments?

2) How much is the potential sinking of vessel on the mind of you the
owners?
Do you think a reasonable solution would be welcome? I tshould affect
insurance premiums, right?
What's your feel?
May be I am a bit paranoid about hitting submerged log, halfsunk containers
and the like. But even if insurance may cover loss,can anyone guarantee
life(s)?
cheers mike

SISC wrote:
Many interesting comments and hints; thank you.

Would like to post these questions based on all the prior responses:

1) Has anyone out there used , seen or had experiences with
"yachtsaver"bags?
Manufacturer is out of business but the idea doesn't sound to bad? Any
Comments?

Yes, we had them on our last boat. They went out of
business for a few reasons:
- lack of sales
- cost of equipment
- EC tests showed that the calculated buoyancy was greater
than actual tests... so a lot of potential liabilty with
installed installations.
- worry about decks ripping off if the bags are not
installed into structure.

I think the idea is sound for smaller vessels. For larger
ones, the cost of the equipment is a lot higher than a
liferaft. For our heavy 30' boat, the cost was about the
same as a liferaft. A bag with 1 ton lift was about
4"x12"x30" deflated. Our boat needed 4 bags.

2) How much is the potential sinking of vessel on the
mind of you the
owners?

Not much anymore. I've got a catamaran with 4 watertight
compartments in each hull now :)

Do you think a reasonable solution would be welcome? I tshould affect
insurance premiums, right?