Howdy, y'all

As most of you know, we're in an extensive refit. We're finally to the
point of addressing the stern of the boat. Most of you know we added
an arch, on which we've put wind and solar, satellite, gps and vhf
antennas, davits, and other goodie-hangers.

Our prior HF antenna location was about midway on the starboard stern
side, attached by a standoff to the stern rail, 24" up. Tuner is very
close to that location, being mounted on the side of the propane
locker.

As it turns out, my solar module frame is 1" tube and is in such a
position as to allow the standoff from my whip to attach to it (much
more support, of course, being 8' in the air, rather than 2' up, like
the rail was before). However, to make that work, I'd have to put the
whip centerline, or very close to it. The base would be right next to
the chain plate for the aft stay.

The way I've got the aft entry, now, it's not a problem to do that in
convenience and use terms. The question is, given that it's marginally
closer (don't know that I'd change the end of the cable) to the tuner,
is that a good placement? There's no parallel metal anywhere nearby;
the closest angle is the back stay, going forward, and, 4'+ away, the
arch itself. Everything else is right angles.

So, is that a good location for the whip? I'd expected to have to put
it very close to the side of the boat in order to keep it out of the
way. That would put it close to the arch itself, and some impediment
to access to some stuff on that side.

Thanks for any informed opinions :{))

L8R

Skip, refitting as fast as I can in the last two days aboard before
surgery

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig
http://tinyurl.com/384p2 - The vessel as Tehamana, as we bought her

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore.
Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

Our main VHF antenna is up at the top of the mast. I think it came
that way. We have a flagpole on the stern, which was a cell phone
antenna. The SSB antenna is the backstay and the tuner is down on the
deck on the stern.

"Skip Gundlach" wrote:

Howdy, y'all

As most of you know, we're in an extensive refit. We're finally to the
point of addressing the stern of the boat. Most of you know we added
an arch, on which we've put wind and solar, satellite, gps and vhf
antennas, davits, and other goodie-hangers.

Our prior HF antenna location was about midway on the starboard stern
side, attached by a standoff to the stern rail, 24" up. Tuner is very
close to that location, being mounted on the side of the propane
locker.

As it turns out, my solar module frame is 1" tube and is in such a
position as to allow the standoff from my whip to attach to it (much
more support, of course, being 8' in the air, rather than 2' up, like
the rail was before). However, to make that work, I'd have to put the
whip centerline, or very close to it. The base would be right next to
the chain plate for the aft stay.

The way I've got the aft entry, now, it's not a problem to do that in
convenience and use terms. The question is, given that it's marginally
closer (don't know that I'd change the end of the cable) to the tuner,
is that a good placement? There's no parallel metal anywhere nearby;
the closest angle is the back stay, going forward, and, 4'+ away, the
arch itself. Everything else is right angles.

So, is that a good location for the whip? I'd expected to have to put
it very close to the side of the boat in order to keep it out of the
way. That would put it close to the arch itself, and some impediment
to access to some stuff on that side.

Thanks for any informed opinions :{))

L8R

Skip, refitting as fast as I can in the last two days aboard before
surgery

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig
http://tinyurl.com/384p2 - The vessel as Tehamana, as we bought her

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore.
Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

grandma Rosalie

In article . com,
"Skip Gundlach" wrote:

Howdy, y'all

As most of you know, we're in an extensive refit. We're finally to the
point of addressing the stern of the boat. Most of you know we added
an arch, on which we've put wind and solar, satellite, gps and vhf
antennas, davits, and other goodie-hangers.

Our prior HF antenna location was about midway on the starboard stern
side, attached by a standoff to the stern rail, 24" up. Tuner is very
close to that location, being mounted on the side of the propane
locker.

As it turns out, my solar module frame is 1" tube and is in such a
position as to allow the standoff from my whip to attach to it (much
more support, of course, being 8' in the air, rather than 2' up, like
the rail was before). However, to make that work, I'd have to put the
whip centerline, or very close to it. The base would be right next to
the chain plate for the aft stay.

The way I've got the aft entry, now, it's not a problem to do that in
convenience and use terms. The question is, given that it's marginally
closer (don't know that I'd change the end of the cable) to the tuner,
is that a good placement? There's no parallel metal anywhere nearby;
the closest angle is the back stay, going forward, and, 4'+ away, the
arch itself. Everything else is right angles.

So, is that a good location for the whip? I'd expected to have to put
it very close to the side of the boat in order to keep it out of the
way. That would put it close to the arch itself, and some impediment
to access to some stuff on that side.

Thanks for any informed opinions :{))

L8R


MF/HF Marine Antennas should ALWAYS follow these simple rules:

1. Higher and longer, is better than lower and shorter.....
2. Autotuners were invented to replace Compitant Radiomen, with
just about every other "Dufus" who thought that he could install
a SSB Radio by himself, and save himself a pile of money.....
3. It doesn't matter how big, or long, your antenna is, if
your RF Ground is totally crap........
4. If you have a GOOD RF Ground, a "Wet Noodle" will radiate better
then the "Best Antenna" with a poor RF Ground.....
5. It is the RF Ground, Sonny, the RF Ground......


Me one who has been around the docks for 40 years......

Me wrote:
In article . com,
"Skip Gundlach" wrote:

Howdy, y'all

As most of you know, we're in an extensive refit. We're finally to the
point of addressing the stern of the boat. Most of you know we added
an arch, on which we've put wind and solar, satellite, gps and vhf
antennas, davits, and other goodie-hangers.

Our prior HF antenna location was about midway on the starboard stern
side, attached by a standoff to the stern rail, 24" up. Tuner is very
close to that location, being mounted on the side of the propane
locker.

As it turns out, my solar module frame is 1" tube and is in such a
position as to allow the standoff from my whip to attach to it (much
more support, of course, being 8' in the air, rather than 2' up, like
the rail was before). However, to make that work, I'd have to put the
whip centerline, or very close to it. The base would be right next to
the chain plate for the aft stay.

The way I've got the aft entry, now, it's not a problem to do that in
convenience and use terms. The question is, given that it's marginally
closer (don't know that I'd change the end of the cable) to the tuner,
is that a good placement? There's no parallel metal anywhere nearby;
the closest angle is the back stay, going forward, and, 4'+ away, the
arch itself. Everything else is right angles.

So, is that a good location for the whip? I'd expected to have to put
it very close to the side of the boat in order to keep it out of the
way. That would put it close to the arch itself, and some impediment
to access to some stuff on that side.

Thanks for any informed opinions :{))

L8R


MF/HF Marine Antennas should ALWAYS follow these simple rules:

1. Higher and longer, is better than lower and shorter.....
2. Autotuners were invented to replace Compitant Radiomen, with
just about every other "Dufus" who thought that he could install
a SSB Radio by himself, and save himself a pile of money.....
3. It doesn't matter how big, or long, your antenna is, if
your RF Ground is totally crap........
4. If you have a GOOD RF Ground, a "Wet Noodle" will radiate better
then the "Best Antenna" with a poor RF Ground.....
5. It is the RF Ground, Sonny, the RF Ground......


Me one who has been around the docks for 40 years......

Boy, I hate web-based posting. I replied to this and the computer ate
it, of course, not saving it anywhere for me...

Thanks for the info on non-HF, whip, antenna placement. Our nav VHF is
mast top, our cockpit VHF is on the arch, as are other antennas. We'll
not be using the backstay for an antenna for a variety of reasons,
time, money and security in the potential dismasting among them.

As further background, we have full rails, with the gates combined
electrically with brass straps belowdecks, attached to the arch, the
pushpit and pulpit. We have about 110 lineal feet of 1" SS tube rail,
unless you count the inner rails, plus the arch. In addition we have
the standard 4" copper strapping leading to a sintered bronze Guest
plane below the boat, and also connected to a 3x5' plate under the
workbench top. I think we have a reasonably good ground.

We have an SGC-230 tuner within 2 cable-feet of the whip antenna. We
expect to have an Icom I-802 HF for our HF comms.

Given that we'll have a whip antenna, is centerline, next to the chain
plate, as good as, better or worse than, or something else when
compared to near the side as it was before (but before the arch was
installed)?

Thanks.

L8R

Skip, refitting as fast as I can

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig
http://tinyurl.com/384p2 - The vessel as Tehamana, as we bought her

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore.
Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

Skip

Don't forget, the Icom 802 is also going to want an additional receive-only
antenna for the DSC receiver portion. It can't use the main antenna for
this. I'm using the backstay for the 802 HF transceiver, a 23 foot whip on
one side for the DSC receiver in the 802, and another 23 foot whip on the
other side for a separate HF receiver (R-71A). The antenna for the R-71 is
also shared with the stereo radio.

The backstay uses an AT-140 tuner. The receive-only antennas don't have
tuners.

Rusty

"Skip Gundlach" wrote in message
oups.com...
Boy, I hate web-based posting. I replied to this and the computer ate
it, of course, not saving it anywhere for me...

Thanks for the info on non-HF, whip, antenna placement. Our nav VHF is
mast top, our cockpit VHF is on the arch, as are other antennas. We'll
not be using the backstay for an antenna for a variety of reasons,
time, money and security in the potential dismasting among them.

As further background, we have full rails, with the gates combined
electrically with brass straps belowdecks, attached to the arch, the
pushpit and pulpit. We have about 110 lineal feet of 1" SS tube rail,
unless you count the inner rails, plus the arch. In addition we have
the standard 4" copper strapping leading to a sintered bronze Guest
plane below the boat, and also connected to a 3x5' plate under the
workbench top. I think we have a reasonably good ground.

We have an SGC-230 tuner within 2 cable-feet of the whip antenna. We
expect to have an Icom I-802 HF for our HF comms.

Given that we'll have a whip antenna, is centerline, next to the chain
plate, as good as, better or worse than, or something else when
compared to near the side as it was before (but before the arch was
installed)?

Thanks.

L8R

Skip, refitting as fast as I can

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig
http://tinyurl.com/384p2 - The vessel as Tehamana, as we bought her

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore.
Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

"Rusty" wrote in message
...
Skip

Don't forget, the Icom 802 is also going to want an additional
receive-only antenna for the DSC receiver portion. It can't use the main
antenna for this. I'm using the backstay for the 802 HF transceiver, a 23
foot whip on one side for the DSC receiver in the 802, and another 23 foot
whip on the other side for a separate HF receiver (R-71A). The antenna for
the R-71 is also shared with the stereo radio.

The backstay uses an AT-140 tuner. The receive-only antennas don't have
tuners.

Rusty



Sorry, I missed this one on the boat, relying on the web-based info and the
digest versions sent to me.

I'm not familiar with the 802 at all, yet, so didn't know of the separate
DSC antenna receive function. The inference is, then, that my similarly
equipped VHFs will need some separate antenna? I'd thought they'd connect
to a GPS...

Thanks for any insights - and the renaming will try to recapture the thread
to placement rather than esoteric discussions of antenna frequencies and
unrelated theory. Not that I'm not enjoying them - but it's not what I
asked, and I have very limited time to sort, witness missing this post.

L8R

Skip, cleaning up in prep for surgery and being off-line for several weeks

--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig
http://tinyurl.com/384p2 - The vessel as Tehamana, as we bought her

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore.
Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

"Skip Gundlach on wifi"
skipgundlach.sez.remove.this.part@earthlink.(fish catcher)net wrote in
:

I'm not familiar with the 802 at all, yet, so didn't know of the
separate DSC antenna receive function.

I've got Lionheart's DSC antenna hooked to the handrail right over the
transceiver's location at the chart table. Seems to work fine.

--
Larry

In article ,
"Skip Gundlach on wifi"
skipgundlach.sez.remove.this.part@earthlink.(fish catcher)net wrote:

The inference is, then, that my similarly
equipped VHFs will need some separate antenna? I'd thought they'd connect
to a GPS...

Skip, You inference is likely wrong as most Vhf Radio's with DSC either
use a receive scan function, or a internal, but seperate, Vhf Receiver
to monitor the DSC Vhf Frequency. (Marine Ch 70) While it is impractical
to use that kind of scheme at MF/HF Frequencies because the autotuner
would be set for the last band segment transmitted on, and attenuate the
DSC signals for all the bands except the autotuned band. It is therefor
prefered, that any MF/HF Marine Radio Installation, have a seperate
Receive Only antenna for the DSC Watch Receiver.

Thus the 802's Watch Receiver Antenna requirment.

Bruce in alaska
--
add a 2 before @

In article .com,
"Skip Gundlach" wrote:

As further background, we have full rails, with the gates combined
electrically with brass straps belowdecks, attached to the arch, the
pushpit and pulpit. We have about 110 lineal feet of 1" SS tube rail,
unless you count the inner rails, plus the arch. In addition we have
the standard 4" copper strapping leading to a sintered bronze Guest
plane below the boat, and also connected to a 3x5' plate under the
workbench top. I think we have a reasonably good ground.

You will never know if you have a "reasonably good ground", unless
you get yourself an Impedance Bridge, and check it at the frequencies
that you commonly work. Anything that is more than 12" away from the
water, isn't going to add "diddley-squat" toward building a Low Impedance
Wideband RF Ground System, and anyone who tells you otherwise, is just as
uneducated about MF/HF Marine Radio Antenna Systems, as you seem to be.
I have seen all kinds of Systems that looked very impresive, untill they
were evaluated with real insurmentation. 400 Sq Ft of Copper Screen in
the Cabin Overhead was proffered, as a really good RF Ground, by a well
known Boat Builder, 20 years ago. It didn't work any better than
having nothing at all, when tested, in a real radio enviorment. If
you got a Plastic Hull, you are NEVER going to get a Real RF Ground,
UNLESS the hull builder was smart, (they never are) and put 200+ Sq
Ft of screen under the gellcoat down by the keel. Cellulose hulls
are just as bad, and harder to retrofit that Plastic ones.
Like I said in my first reply, Autotuners were invented to allow any
"Dufus" to think he install an MF/HF Marine Radio System, and save
himself all that money he would have paid a Compitant Radioman.
SGC Autotuners are some of the worst of the lot, even if they did steal
the design from the real inventers. SGC couldn't even copy the design
correctly, and "Old PeeAir" couldn't design his way out of a "Wet Paper
Bag".

Me