is it true what They say about SailNet ?
 

I don't know whether the posting below from a user I don't know to
the Sailnet Lists (www.sailnet.com and
www.sailnet.com/resources/index.cfm) is correct - but, if it is or
becomes so, it may be of interest to readers/posters here in light of
how informative/helpful many users of those Lists find them to be:

=================

Subject: SailNet RIP [?]

Just a heads up to listers. There are many posts all over the email
lists and various sailing websites indicating that Sailnet is very
close to shutting down. It seems like far more than speculation, as
many posts tell of problems with orders, and the lack of response to
those problems. The answering machine is full, and emails go
unanswered. I had a problem with their online ordering a few days ago,
and finally got a salesman on the phone, after major efforts trying to
contact customer service with no success. When I told him that
Customer Service was ignoring me, he said it was because there was no
one there! They are running a 30% off fire sale on all inventory with
a no returns/no refunds policy. Many reports today indicate that the
remaining stock is pretty well picked through. There are lots of
complaints of wrong merchandise, or no merchandise arriving, and no
response from Sailnet to rectify anything. Not good.

The deposed founders of sailnet, The Boyles, now have a new website at

http://www.sailjazz.com

They have a complete roster of email groups just like Sailnet, that up
until now have been fairly idle. They have a Long Island group, just
like Sailnet. They also have virtually all the same lists as Sailnet.

In article ,
wrote:

Subject: SailNet RIP [?]

Just a heads up to listers. There are many posts all over the email
lists and various sailing websites indicating that Sailnet is very
close to shutting down.

That's a shame, as I've enjoyed them for years. Our boatcheck article is
#99....


--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Jere Lull wrote in news:jerelull-
:

Subject: SailNet RIP [?]

Just a heads up to listers. There are many posts all over the email
lists and various sailing websites indicating that Sailnet is very
close to shutting down.


I live about 3 miles from Sailnet. I'll stop by on Monday and see what's
up....

--
Larry

Larry,

Can you do me a huge favor? I sent my standing rigging to sailnet and
I haven't heard back for over a month and a half. All attempts at
contact have fallen on deaf ears. Any chance you would be willing to
stop by sailnet and get my rigging before the doors shut? I am willing
to pay for your time :-)

Contact me offline at asl...for---sale...AT...yahoo---com (remove dots
and dashes, replace AT) if you would be willing to help.

Thanks,

Scott

Red Cloud® wrote in
:

I think that at this point there are a LOT of people who would like to
know what you find out!

rusty redcloud



Had no time today....but intend to go down for Scott in the morning....

--
Larry

Larry, here's what I've picked up from postings on a web discussion site
on which I'm a forum host...in the order in which they were posted:

" I recieved an email from Sam back in December when the change at
SailNet took place, He wanted to explain why he and Cheryl were leaving
SailNet, yesterday I sent an email to them and here is Cheryl's responce
to me. I'm sure she won't mind the posting.

Ken,

SN was not sold. We had outside investors who exercised their majority
control to replace both Sam and I. Since then we've had no involvement
with SN. If you're a member of the community then I would suggest moving
over to SJ as a precaution. Outward appearances at SN do not look good
and it seems they may be closing up shop."

(The reference to "SJ" is the Boyle's new site, "Sail Jazz:"
http://www.sailjazz.com/ )


That post was followed closely by this reply:

" For those of you who think that Sailnet went sour after Sam and Cheryl
left you're dead wrong. They were never able to get control of the
company from the start. They spent millions (literally...almost 20) of
dollars in private venture capital, cooked the books almost every month
and left the company in the dumps when the main venture investors
finally figured it out and gave them the boot. They both face
embezzelment (sp?) charges as we speak. The new guy they brought into
run it lacks interest and passion and the staff (or what's left of them
after the yearly round of layoffs) think he's a giant ass.
As far as contacting customer service, there isn't one. They were all
laid off and now the one (maybe two) remaining salesmen are in charge of
every interaction with customers from all over the world. It's just too
much to handle.

"I'm pretty positive they are heading towards liquidation with the
exception of Airforce Sails which is a very professionally run outfit
with two VERY competent guys who wish they were NOT part of the Sailnet
name.

"All in all, Sailnet's problems stem directly from the leadership
deficiency which started with Sam and Cheryl...all the employees are
good guys and gals with little or no incentive to wake up and drive to
the office every morning."

And then this:

" Heard they shut the doors on Fri. Laid everyone off and went bankrupt.
Wonder what they're doing with leftover inventory????????"

Before anyone replies to this with any questions OR comments, I'm ONLY
the messenger! And ALL I know is what I've just copy/pasted here from
others whose info may or may not be reliable. So don't ask me any
questions...I don't know any more!

I did go their "store" site, though...EVERYthing seems to be at "fire
sale" price. I checked out a few categories...the first was "heads and
head accessories" of course. The only products shown were a SeaLand
portapotty and SeaLand tank chemicals. And other categories were equally
"thin."

So Larry, your assignment--if you choose to accept it--is to find out
whether Sailnet has gone belly up or is still in business...whether, if
the "store" is closing, whether the site including all the email lists
will continue. The Boyles have obviously put up a site to to either
compete with it or replace it...which will it be?

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/store/custo...0&cat=6&page=1

Hey Larry,

Thanks a bunch for the offer, I really appreciate it. My wife called
an hour after my post telling me my rigging was shipped back to our
house. When I got home and opened the box there was a letter inside
explaining that Sailnet is closing their doors and they would not be
able to fulfill my rigging order. The rigging guy even suggested
another company.

It is too bad they are closing their doors. Until recently I had good
experiences with Sailnet.

Scott

Peggy,

Gossip is sometimes referred to as halitosis of the mind.
- Wise Man

"Gossip needn't be false to be evil - there's a lot of truth that
shouldn't be passed around." - Frank Clark

++++++++++++++++++++++++

"Peggie Hall" gossiped...

| Larry, here's what I've picked up from postings on a web discussion site
| on which I'm a forum host...in the order in which they were posted:
|
| " I recieved an email from Sam back in December when the change at
| SailNet took place, He wanted to explain why he and Cheryl were leaving
| SailNet, yesterday I sent an email to them and here is Cheryl's responce
| to me. I'm sure she won't mind the posting.
|
| Ken,
|
| SN was not sold. We had outside investors who exercised their majority
| control to replace both Sam and I. Since then we've had no involvement
| with SN. If you're a member of the community then I would suggest moving
| over to SJ as a precaution. Outward appearances at SN do not look good
| and it seems they may be closing up shop."
|
| (The reference to "SJ" is the Boyle's new site, "Sail Jazz:"
| http://www.sailjazz.com/ )
|
|
| That post was followed closely by this reply:
|
| " For those of you who think that Sailnet went sour after Sam and Cheryl
| left you're dead wrong. They were never able to get control of the
| company from the start. They spent millions (literally...almost 20) of
| dollars in private venture capital, cooked the books almost every month
| and left the company in the dumps when the main venture investors
| finally figured it out and gave them the boot. They both face
| embezzelment (sp?) charges as we speak. The new guy they brought into
| run it lacks interest and passion and the staff (or what's left of them
| after the yearly round of layoffs) think he's a giant ass.
| As far as contacting customer service, there isn't one. They were all
| laid off and now the one (maybe two) remaining salesmen are in charge of
| every interaction with customers from all over the world. It's just too
| much to handle.
|
| "I'm pretty positive they are heading towards liquidation with the
| exception of Airforce Sails which is a very professionally run outfit
| with two VERY competent guys who wish they were NOT part of the Sailnet
| name.
|
| "All in all, Sailnet's problems stem directly from the leadership
| deficiency which started with Sam and Cheryl...all the employees are
| good guys and gals with little or no incentive to wake up and drive to
| the office every morning."
|
| And then this:
|
| " Heard they shut the doors on Fri. Laid everyone off and went bankrupt.
| Wonder what they're doing with leftover inventory????????"
|
| Before anyone replies to this with any questions OR comments, I'm ONLY
| the messenger! And ALL I know is what I've just copy/pasted here from
| others whose info may or may not be reliable. So don't ask me any
| questions...I don't know any more!
|
| I did go their "store" site, though...EVERYthing seems to be at "fire
| sale" price. I checked out a few categories...the first was "heads and
| head accessories" of course. The only products shown were a SeaLand
| portapotty and SeaLand tank chemicals. And other categories were equally
| "thin."
|
| So Larry, your assignment--if you choose to accept it--is to find out
| whether Sailnet has gone belly up or is still in business...whether, if
| the "store" is closing, whether the site including all the email lists
| will continue. The Boyles have obviously put up a site to to either
| compete with it or replace it...which will it be?

Peggie Hall wrote in
:

So Larry, your assignment--if you choose to accept it--is to find out
whether Sailnet has gone belly up or is still in business...whether, if
the "store" is closing, whether the site including all the email lists
will continue. The Boyles have obviously put up a site to to either
compete with it or replace it...which will it be?


Ok, I'll just copy my message I posted to rec.boats groups this morning:

Over in the binary group alt.binaries.pictures.sports.ocean I have posted
the pictures of my visit to Sailnet's main headquarters in N Charleston
TWICE this morning, just to make sure. Their hours were 0830-1700 ET so I
went there at 9AM. While I was in the parking lot, another sailor drove in
and said he couldn't get them on the local phone, get emails answered or
FAX them, either. He came to see what I saw.

At 9AM, as you can see in the pictures, the building was locked, a sign
said CLOSED stuck to the front door, the building was dark save for one
night light in the lobby, but, curiously, right inside the front door was a
running copy machine, which may also be the FAX machine. Its LCD display
was lit up. There's still power to the building.

Well, after going nowhere at 9AM, I walked across the parking lot to
Hospice of Charleston in the next building over and talked to the nice
ladies who were watering their sidewalk garden. I asked them if they'd
seen anyone at Sailnet, recently. One lady said she hadn't seen anyone in
the parking lot for "some time", as she put it. I walked around to the
County Clerk of Court's office in the back of the building and talked to
the ladies through the prison bars that protect them from angry voters.
They hadn't really noticed any activity, but weren't looking much.
Government employees, they run in a vacuum it seems. I wondered as I left
if they would have even notice the building burning they were in.

I went off to shop my local favorite thrift shop (found a brand new
fishtape, first class quality for $5). As it was after 10AM, I wandered
back to Sailnet to see if anyone had shown up. They had! There was a
nice, grey Mercedes C-230 sports car (see photo) parked in the closest slot
to the building, so I got out of my car, again, and went up to peer into
the darkened building. I knocked and knocked on the front door...no
answer. I walked around to the side of the building where their other
business, something called Oroton-something, and found the keyless entry
door also locked and no response to my knocking. I kept an eye on the
front of the building while I sat in the car, but finally gave up as
whoever was inside never appeared at any of the windows I could see. Maybe
he was contemplating Peggie Hall's latest suggestions while sitting on a
Porta-Pottie in the employee lounge. Maybe he was hiding, afraid I'd punch
out his lights for not delivering my stuff...(c;

Note to Scott - No rigging and no answers to many poundings. Sorry I can't
get to your rigging. If you need to have it picked up and can get the
building opened, I'd be glad to take it away for you to have it picked up
at my place.

I'm not saying Sailnet is history. Maybe they're relocating to palacial
new facilities in some posh industrial area, with 4 times the floor space.
But, from what you and I can see today.....it looks like they are DOT
BOMB...

If you're waiting for delivery on your credit card orders, better call your
card company and warn them. If you look at the Mercedes in the picture,
you'll see I handily photographed the LICENSE NUMBER, a SC tag that can be
traced to a person. Two places come to mind who might be interested in
your fraud case:

Charleston County Sheriff's Office - 843-554-4700
North Charleston City Hall/Cops - 843-554-5700

Ask them what they know and let them know you got no response.

If any of you are already members of Sailnet's webpage forums, you might
want to copy and paste this message and the pictures to their forum pages.
From reading a few of the posts, most people there don't even know usenet
exists, much less these newsgroups.

--
Larry

These are my observations taken 30 minutes and 1:30 after they usually open
on Tuesday. My OPINION is they are gone. Don't let they sway your
opinion. Just look at the pictures....

I have seen this grey Mercedes C-220 Kompressor sports car in the lot many
times, admiring it so I remembered it. But, whoever was in the building
from it would not answer the door I knocked on for many minutes...front and
side doors. The License Number can be easily traced by the cops.

Larry,

A fool and his money are soon parted. - English idiom

When one door shuts, another opens. - unknown



"Larry" wrote

| Ok, I'll just copy my message I posted to rec.boats groups this morning:
|
| Over in the binary group alt.binaries.pictures.sports.ocean I have posted
| the pictures of my visit to Sailnet's main headquarters in N Charleston
| TWICE this morning, just to make sure. Their hours were 0830-1700 ET so I
| went there at 9AM. While I was in the parking lot, another sailor drove in
| and said he couldn't get them on the local phone, get emails answered or
| FAX them, either. He came to see what I saw.
|
| At 9AM, as you can see in the pictures, the building was locked, a sign
| said CLOSED stuck to the front door, the building was dark save for one
| night light in the lobby, but, curiously, right inside the front door was a
| running copy machine, which may also be the FAX machine. Its LCD display
| was lit up. There's still power to the building.
|
| Well, after going nowhere at 9AM, I walked across the parking lot to
| Hospice of Charleston in the next building over and talked to the nice
| ladies who were watering their sidewalk garden. I asked them if they'd
| seen anyone at Sailnet, recently. One lady said she hadn't seen anyone in
| the parking lot for "some time", as she put it. I walked around to the
| County Clerk of Court's office in the back of the building and talked to
| the ladies through the prison bars that protect them from angry voters.
| They hadn't really noticed any activity, but weren't looking much.
| Government employees, they run in a vacuum it seems. I wondered as I left
| if they would have even notice the building burning they were in.
|
| I went off to shop my local favorite thrift shop (found a brand new
| fishtape, first class quality for $5). As it was after 10AM, I wandered
| back to Sailnet to see if anyone had shown up. They had! There was a
| nice, grey Mercedes C-230 sports car (see photo) parked in the closest slot
| to the building, so I got out of my car, again, and went up to peer into
| the darkened building. I knocked and knocked on the front door...no
| answer. I walked around to the side of the building where their other
| business, something called Oroton-something, and found the keyless entry
| door also locked and no response to my knocking. I kept an eye on the
| front of the building while I sat in the car, but finally gave up as
| whoever was inside never appeared at any of the windows I could see. Maybe
| he was contemplating Peggie Hall's latest suggestions while sitting on a
| Porta-Pottie in the employee lounge. Maybe he was hiding, afraid I'd punch
| out his lights for not delivering my stuff...(c;
|
| Note to Scott - No rigging and no answers to many poundings. Sorry I can't
| get to your rigging. If you need to have it picked up and can get the
| building opened, I'd be glad to take it away for you to have it picked up
| at my place.
|
| I'm not saying Sailnet is history. Maybe they're relocating to palacial
| new facilities in some posh industrial area, with 4 times the floor space.
| But, from what you and I can see today.....it looks like they are DOT
| BOMB...
|
| If you're waiting for delivery on your credit card orders, better call your
| card company and warn them. If you look at the Mercedes in the picture,
| you'll see I handily photographed the LICENSE NUMBER, a SC tag that can be
| traced to a person. Two places come to mind who might be interested in
| your fraud case:
|
| Charleston County Sheriff's Office - 843-554-4700
| North Charleston City Hall/Cops - 843-554-5700
|
| Ask them what they know and let them know you got no response.
|
| If any of you are already members of Sailnet's webpage forums, you might
| want to copy and paste this message and the pictures to their forum pages.
| From reading a few of the posts, most people there don't even know usenet
| exists, much less these newsgroups.
|
| --
| Larry
|
| These are my observations taken 30 minutes and 1:30 after they usually open
| on Tuesday. My OPINION is they are gone. Don't let they sway your
| opinion. Just look at the pictures....
|
| I have seen this grey Mercedes C-220 Kompressor sports car in the lot many
| times, admiring it so I remembered it. But, whoever was in the building
| from it would not answer the door I knocked on for many minutes...front and
| side doors. The License Number can be easily traced by the cops.

"Wise Man" wrote in
eenews.net:

Larry,

A fool and his money are soon parted. - English idiom

When one door shuts, another opens. - unknown



And, I missed the point. Someone asked me to go to Sailnet near my home
and see what was there. I reported it. Am I a fool for trying to help
fellow sailors?

--
Larry

In article , Larry wrote:
"Wise Man" wrote in
reenews.net:

Larry,

A fool and his money are soon parted. - English idiom

When one door shuts, another opens. - unknown



And, I missed the point. Someone asked me to go to Sailnet near my home
and see what was there. I reported it. Am I a fool for trying to help
fellow sailors?


Larry, forget it... it's just a stupid troll.

--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

Hi Gary!

I hope you're having a good day. Don't forget about that complimentary
Databasix newsgroup service for me. I've got just the spot on my
propeller hat for the Databasix logo. I can even make the hat look like
one of those black helicopters you fly around in. Just a few more
reminders, change the batteries in the smoke detectors every time the
clocks are set forward or back and get an annual physical on or about
your birthday. I love those physicals, I squeeze my butt cheeks real
tight down on the doctors finger when he does the prostate exam. The
look on his face is worth millions! I'm such a practical joker!
hahahahaha! You should try it too. You can even add to the hilarity in
the doctors office by farting when he pulls out his finger. The nurse
standing by gets a kick out of it too. Let me know how it works for
you. Thank God you are not in England. You would be scheduling your
checkup for age 55 right now. God bless America and George Bush! Take
care and stay away from a starchy diet.

"Larry" wrote in message
...
"Wise Man" wrote in
eenews.net:

Larry,

A fool and his money are soon parted. - English idiom

When one door shuts, another opens. - unknown



And, I missed the point. Someone asked me to go to Sailnet near my home
and see what was there. I reported it. Am I a fool for trying to help
fellow sailors?

--
Larry

Thanks for the heads up. Scotty posted something a while back about sailnet
having a sale on wheel autopilots, when I finally looked it up last week I
noticed that they didn't list ANY wheel autopilots, I thought that was odd
at the time, all they had were a few accessories for the autopilots. Now it
makes sense, they're letting their inventory sell off without bothering to
let any of their customers know about their situation. I had heard the story
about the Boyles a while back from someone that knows them personally, he
wrote a fair number of online articles for them. Funny that the website is
still up, as are the e-mail lists, but I noticed tonight that the front page
has a large message that says "checkout temporarily disabled". Really is a
shame, I've purchased from these guys in the past and found their service
and pricing practically unbeatable. BTW, no one on any of the sailnet lists
mentioned anything about their problems.

John Cairns

On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 11:40:21 -0400, Larry wrote:

"Wise Man" wrote in
reenews.net:

Larry,

A fool and his money are soon parted. - English idiom

When one door shuts, another opens. - unknown



And, I missed the point. Someone asked me to go to Sailnet near my home
and see what was there. I reported it. Am I a fool for trying to help
fellow sailors?

No, you are displaying seamanlike behaviour, in this case in a N.C.
parking lot, but your instincts are right.

Personally, I will now make noonsite.com my home page. It was
Sallnet.com for several years, but there's only so many times I can
look at "Sue and Larry's" viewpoints on head maintenance.

Ciao, bella!

R.

Gary L. Burnore wrote:
: On 19 Jul 2005 17:18:59 -0700, "Bluto"
: wrote:
:
:: God bless America and George Bush!
:
: More proof you're a ****ing asshole noted.

as if any more were needed!

--
Steve Leyland
mhm32x16 Smeeter#24 WSD#41
flower: three 6 four 9 five 8 eight 9
em ess en: my 1st name at purgatory dot org
Alcatroll Labs Inc (bongwater maintenance dept)
http://www.insurgent.org/~alcatroll/

=^MEOW MEOW ARMY^=

The engine is running but there's nobody at the wheel.
================================================== ====================
"My suggestion is to completely ignore idiots like Leland. They are the
lowest form of pond scum. People like him have tried unsuccessfully in
the past to disrupt the newsgroup. The best medicine is to completely
ignore them. As I'm sure you'll see, they're most intelligent response
is to yell nasty names. Other than that, they have nothing."

JG, netKKKop, alt.sailing.asa
================================================== ====================
"Warning to all:
Steve Leyland is a trolling **** of the highest order. Killfile the
muppet now and move on. Even the briefest of searches on his past
UseNet posts will reveal the truth. You have been warned. *plonk*"

Bear, netKKKop, uk.rec.motorcycles
================================================== ====================
"I didn't delete any part of your meaningless, pointless, worthless
post in order to clearly demonstrate that you are the nemesis of
Usenet: the crossposting, non-editing, diagram-creating worthless,
dickless, brainless, gutless, mindless, ball-less, spineless, flaccid,
obese, fish-belly pale, ugly, VD-ridden, moronic, bald, hunch-backed,
flat-footed, odoriferous, obnoxious, fecal-smelling, buck-toothed,
physically handicapped, fungus-infected, HIV positive, mud-packing,
masturbating, whining, simpering, self-important, arrogant, egomaniacal
POS that takes up more bandwidth than a despicable binary-poster, and
for no apparent reason beyond seeing his own defecatory vomitus
slithering down the screen in vile green rivulets."

Admiral Halsey, alt.sailing.asa
================================================== ====================
"I went to the Garden of Love,
And saw what I never had seen;
A Chapel was built in the midst,
Where I used to play on the green.

And the gates of this Chapel were shut
And "Thou shalt not," writ over the door;
So I turned to the Garden of Love
That so many sweet flowers bore.

And I saw it was filled with graves,
And tombstones where flowers should be;
And priests in black gowns were walking their rounds,
And binding with briars my joys and desires."

William Blake.
================================================== ====================
"When the Earth has been ravaged and the animals are dying, a tribe of
people from all races, creeds and colours shall put their faith in
deeds, not words, and make the land green again. They shall be known as
Warriors of the Rainbow, protectors of the environment."

Native American prophecy


|\ _.-'~~""'~`'~)
/, ~-,__,,,.'~ ,-;;--''
|,4) ./ ' ; ;/'
'-~~;'@ ( ; ;
_.--'' _.-_..' .;.'
(,_..----''' (,..--''

Meow

"Red Cloud®" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 20 Jul 2005 02:24:57 GMT, "John Cairns"
wrote:


"Larry" wrote in message
...
"Wise Man" wrote in
eenews.net:

Larry,

A fool and his money are soon parted. - English idiom

When one door shuts, another opens. - unknown



And, I missed the point. Someone asked me to go to Sailnet near my home
and see what was there. I reported it. Am I a fool for trying to help
fellow sailors?

--
Larry

Thanks for the heads up. Scotty posted something a while back about
sailnet
having a sale on wheel autopilots, when I finally looked it up last week I
noticed that they didn't list ANY wheel autopilots, I thought that was odd
at the time, all they had were a few accessories for the autopilots. Now
it
makes sense, they're letting their inventory sell off without bothering to
let any of their customers know about their situation. I had heard the
story
about the Boyles a while back from someone that knows them personally, he
wrote a fair number of online articles for them. Funny that the website is
still up, as are the e-mail lists, but I noticed tonight that the front
page
has a large message that says "checkout temporarily disabled". Really is a
shame, I've purchased from these guys in the past and found their service
and pricing practically unbeatable. BTW, no one on any of the sailnet
lists
mentioned anything about their problems.

John Cairns


I saw posts in many of the sailnet lists about the growing problems. The
groups
I belong to have all migrated to sailjazz.com, which has all the same
group
titles.


rusty redcloud

Should have said, on any of the lists I subscribe to. I have noticed that
there is very little traffic on the lists these days, I attributed it to the
season.

John Cairns

I got this e-mail from Sailnet;

----- Original Message -----
From: SailNet
To:
Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 5:59 PM
Subject: A Message from SailNet


It has come to the attention of SailNet that postings have appeared on
unmoderated forums that we host containing rumors and allegations
against
former and current management. We have no knowledge that any of the
claims
or allegations in these postings are true. We are attempting to
remove as
many of these unmoderated postings as possible.

The authors of any such postings will be held fully and solely
responsible
and liable for their content.

"Scotty" wrote in
:

unmoderated forums that we host

Ah, some of the customers DARED say something on THEIR forums. I doubt
they even know about this one....(c;

--
Larry