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sheet knot
What's the best knot for attaching the sheets to the jib? Gotta be
something better than the "pesky wabbit around the tree and down the hole" knot. Thanks Gordon -- Ask not for whom the terrorist bell tolls; it tolls for thee, and thee, and thee--for decent, innocent people everywhere. |
In "Gordon" writes:
What's the best knot for attaching the sheets to the jib? Gotta be something better than the "pesky wabbit around the tree and down the hole" knot. Thanks Gordon If you can keep both sheets together then a knot known as lark head or a cow hitch. Look: http://www.ehow.com/how_13480_make-larks-head.html In the picture it is done around a stick, you make it in the clew cringle. - Lauri Tarkkonen -- Ask not for whom the terrorist bell tolls; it tolls for thee, and thee, and thee--for decent, innocent people everywhere. |
Gordon wrote:
What's the best knot for attaching the sheets to the jib? Gotta be something better than the "pesky wabbit around the tree and down the hole" knot. I don't know the name of the knot, but I got it from Cruising World article a long time ago and it is simple. You need one piece of line for both sheets. If a single sheet is say 35 ft, you need a 70 ft piece of line for example. Find the midpoint and double the line, then measure back about 18" and seize together with some mason's twine forming a loop. You need a piece of 3/4" line about 24" long which you feed thru the loop on the sheet you just created, then double it back on itself and seize the ends together with more mason's twine. Feed the sheet loop thru the cringle, then feed the end of the seized 3/4" line thru the loop. Pull the loop taut and you are good to go. SFWIW, I used the above for many years, making up a separate set of sheets for each sail. It was just simpler that way. HTH Lew |
"Gordon" wrote in message
... What's the best knot for attaching the sheets to the jib? Gotta be something better than the "pesky wabbit around the tree and down the hole" knot. Thanks Gordon -- Ask not for whom the terrorist bell tolls; it tolls for thee, and thee, and thee--for decent, innocent people everywhere. Perhaps, but the bowline is an extremely useful knot. This is what we teach. Perhaps there are better, but it is worth teaching. If you have to change sails, you either need to have another long line available to tie a lark head or you have to untie the one you have on the old sail... seems like a lot of wasted time. I would rather just know the bowline and do it right. Disclaimer: we use the lark on at least one of our boats. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
A Buntline Hitch http://www.dirauxwest.org/knots/buntline.htm
On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 11:36:43 -0700, "Gordon" wrote: What's the best knot for attaching the sheets to the jib? Gotta be something better than the "pesky wabbit around the tree and down the hole" knot. Thanks Gordon |
On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 08:48:51 -0400, Marc wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 11:36:43 -0700, "Gordon" wrote: What's the best knot for attaching the sheets to the jib? Gotta be something better than the "pesky wabbit around the tree and down the hole" knot. There is, learn to tie it without using the rabbit approach. A Buntline Hitch http://www.dirauxwest.org/knots/buntline.htm Not if you ever want to get it undone again. PyroJames Would arsonists please try to control themselves for the duration of the emergency. |
"Gordon" wrote in message ... What's the best knot for attaching the sheets to the jib? Gotta be something better than the "pesky wabbit around the tree and down the hole" knot. Thanks Gordon I posted the question above a few days ago and a strange thing happened. I got an email from a web site called TravelNewsGroup.com that said I had gotten a reply to my question and to click a link to see the reply, which I did. There was actually 3 replies! When I go back to usenet, these replies still do not show up there! Whats going on??? Somehow, it seems, this web site is hijacking usenet messages and this ****es me off. Anyone else run into this? BTW, the usenet provider my ISP subscribes to is always having problems. Is there another one open to all that I could set up to use? Thanks all And thanks for the replies to the sheet knot question Gordon |
I agree with advocates of the bowline for the following reasons: 1) it will
not come untied until you want it to, 2) when you want it to- you can untie it, and 3) it devalues the breaking strain of the line less than other knots. In this I mean that if a line is put under heavy strain, it will break at the knot before it reaches it's stated breaking point because of the bends required to form the knot will break first. I'm a firm believer that a boater only needs 3 knots; bowline, clove hitch, and square; along with a good idea of when to use each and the ability to do so quickly. MMC (Navy coxswain, Navy and commercial diver, sailor, and all around nosey *******) "Steven Shelikoff" wrote in message ... On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 11:36:43 -0700, "Gordon" wrote: What's the best knot for attaching the sheets to the jib? Gotta be something better than the "pesky wabbit around the tree and down the hole" knot. Are you really having trouble making a bowline? Sure, you can use other knots to tie sheets to the jib. But they're going to be just as "pesky" and if you're a sailor, you should know how to make a bowline quickly anyway. Steve |
Definitely a Buntline .... unlike a bowline it wont shake loose. If
tied properly it will be small/compact and will be much smaller than a bowline. Yes yu will have to probably cut it off to remove it; buy a few feet of extra line. In that same vein, the best is to eyhe-splice the line directly to the clew or alternatively use a single length and use a 'stangler/constrictor' hitch or a simple clove hitch in the middle. In article , Marc wrote: A Buntline Hitch http://www.dirauxwest.org/knots/buntline.htm On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 11:36:43 -0700, "Gordon" wrote: What's the best knot for attaching the sheets to the jib? Gotta be something better than the "pesky wabbit around the tree and down the hole" knot. Thanks Gordon |
MMC wrote:
I agree with advocates of the bowline for the following reasons: 1) it will not come untied until you want it to, Actually, the bowline is not perfect in this regard, especially if not well finished. I have heard of it coming free when used on jib sheets. I must confess, though, that I use them on my jib sheets because the stuns'l tackbends would get too bulky on the clew. 2) when you want it to- you can untie it, and 3) true it devalues the breaking strain of the line less than other knots. In this I mean that if a line is put under heavy strain, it will break at the knot before it reaches it's stated breaking point because of the bends required to form the knot will break first. Nope - this is a myth. Its not bad, but it isn't dramatically better than many other knots. And it can have a serious problem if used when a anchor bend should be used. I'm a firm believer that a boater only needs 3 knots; bowline, clove hitch, and square; along with a good idea of when to use each and the ability to do so quickly. The bowline is clearly a superior knot for many applications. However, the square knot and clove hitch I only use rarely and their holding power is so marginal I'd hesitate to teach them to a novice. Why not use teach useful knots, like a stuns'l tackbend (buntline hitch) or a tautline hitch or a sheetbend or a figure eight? These knots are used every day. Can you rig up a sailboat without knowing a stopper knots? |
Although I'm a big fan of the buntline, I don't use it on the sheets
because the line is so big that two of them would make the clew too bulky. Someone claimed that they were hard to remove, though I've never had this problem, and I used them thousands of times. Admittedly, they are snug, so they're not the best in a "quick change" situation. Rich Hampel wrote: Definitely a Buntline .... unlike a bowline it wont shake loose. If tied properly it will be small/compact and will be much smaller than a bowline. Yes yu will have to probably cut it off to remove it; buy a few feet of extra line. In that same vein, the best is to eyhe-splice the line directly to the clew or alternatively use a single length and use a 'stangler/constrictor' hitch or a simple clove hitch in the middle. In article , Marc wrote: A Buntline Hitch http://www.dirauxwest.org/knots/buntline.htm On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 11:36:43 -0700, "Gordon" wrote: What's the best knot for attaching the sheets to the jib? Gotta be something better than the "pesky wabbit around the tree and down the hole" knot. Thanks Gordon |
I've seen in come free, but only in light air with a very short end.
-- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Jeff" wrote in message ... MMC wrote: I agree with advocates of the bowline for the following reasons: 1) it will not come untied until you want it to, Actually, the bowline is not perfect in this regard, especially if not well finished. I have heard of it coming free when used on jib sheets. I must confess, though, that I use them on my jib sheets because the stuns'l tackbends would get too bulky on the clew. 2) when you want it to- you can untie it, and 3) true it devalues the breaking strain of the line less than other knots. In this I mean that if a line is put under heavy strain, it will break at the knot before it reaches it's stated breaking point because of the bends required to form the knot will break first. Nope - this is a myth. Its not bad, but it isn't dramatically better than many other knots. And it can have a serious problem if used when a anchor bend should be used. I'm a firm believer that a boater only needs 3 knots; bowline, clove hitch, and square; along with a good idea of when to use each and the ability to do so quickly. The bowline is clearly a superior knot for many applications. However, the square knot and clove hitch I only use rarely and their holding power is so marginal I'd hesitate to teach them to a novice. Why not use teach useful knots, like a stuns'l tackbend (buntline hitch) or a tautline hitch or a sheetbend or a figure eight? These knots are used every day. Can you rig up a sailboat without knowing a stopper knots? |
In article ,
Rich Hampel wrote: alternatively use a single length and use a 'stangler/constrictor' hitch or a simple clove hitch in the middle. I've used one or other of these for years, primarily because there's less mass when flogging and less chance of catching on something. -- Jere Lull Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD) Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
Sheetbend is notorious for capsizing unless you double wrap it.
Better to use a Zeppelin bend. |
Went through 2nd Class at NSDS in '82 on my way to Indian Head. After that
worked off of a buttload of mine sweepers, the USNS Apache, the Hunley, the Butte, the Saipan, the booster recovery ship "Independence", and a whole lot of time on rubber ducks and workboats. After I got out I worked for Seaward for a while and may have scrubbed your bottom if you were based in Little Creek! "Dave" wrote in message ... On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 16:00:32 GMT, "MMC" said: MMC (Navy coxswain, Navy and commercial diver, sailor, and all around nosey *******) Hey, MMC, what kind of a Navy boat were you diving from? I spent my hitch on an ASR--the kind of diving that took the long course for helium divers at NSDS, rather than the short one for air divers. |
Use a " Studding Sail Tack Bend" easy and won't jam.
Bill "Lew Hodgett" wrote in message ink.net... Gordon wrote: What's the best knot for attaching the sheets to the jib? Gotta be something better than the "pesky wabbit around the tree and down the hole" knot. I don't know the name of the knot, but I got it from Cruising World article a long time ago and it is simple. You need one piece of line for both sheets. If a single sheet is say 35 ft, you need a 70 ft piece of line for example. Find the midpoint and double the line, then measure back about 18" and seize together with some mason's twine forming a loop. You need a piece of 3/4" line about 24" long which you feed thru the loop on the sheet you just created, then double it back on itself and seize the ends together with more mason's twine. Feed the sheet loop thru the cringle, then feed the end of the seized 3/4" line thru the loop. Pull the loop taut and you are good to go. SFWIW, I used the above for many years, making up a separate set of sheets for each sail. It was just simpler that way. HTH Lew |
I'd put two half hitches on that list, right behind the bowline
"MMC" wrote in message m... I agree with advocates of the bowline for the following reasons: 1) it will not come untied until you want it to, 2) when you want it to- you can untie it, and 3) it devalues the breaking strain of the line less than other knots. In this I mean that if a line is put under heavy strain, it will break at the knot before it reaches it's stated breaking point because of the bends required to form the knot will break first. I'm a firm believer that a boater only needs 3 knots; bowline, clove hitch, and square; along with a good idea of when to use each and the ability to do so quickly. MMC (Navy coxswain, Navy and commercial diver, sailor, and all around nosey *******) "Steven Shelikoff" wrote in message ... On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 11:36:43 -0700, "Gordon" wrote: What's the best knot for attaching the sheets to the jib? Gotta be something better than the "pesky wabbit around the tree and down the hole" knot. Are you really having trouble making a bowline? Sure, you can use other knots to tie sheets to the jib. But they're going to be just as "pesky" and if you're a sailor, you should know how to make a bowline quickly anyway. Steve |
Two half hitches is an almost useless knot. There are variants that
are vastly superior, but two half hitches by itself is about as useful as a granny. Garland Gray II wrote: I'd put two half hitches on that list, right behind the bowline "MMC" wrote in message m... I agree with advocates of the bowline for the following reasons: 1) it will not come untied until you want it to, 2) when you want it to- you can untie it, and 3) it devalues the breaking strain of the line less than other knots. In this I mean that if a line is put under heavy strain, it will break at the knot before it reaches it's stated breaking point because of the bends required to form the knot will break first. I'm a firm believer that a boater only needs 3 knots; bowline, clove hitch, and square; along with a good idea of when to use each and the ability to do so quickly. MMC (Navy coxswain, Navy and commercial diver, sailor, and all around nosey *******) "Steven Shelikoff" wrote in message . .. On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 11:36:43 -0700, "Gordon" wrote: What's the best knot for attaching the sheets to the jib? Gotta be something better than the "pesky wabbit around the tree and down the hole" knot. Are you really having trouble making a bowline? Sure, you can use other knots to tie sheets to the jib. But they're going to be just as "pesky" and if you're a sailor, you should know how to make a bowline quickly anyway. Steve |
You are welcome to your opinion, but I think that is a rediculous statement.
A granny knot is clearly a knot done in error, but two half hitches can be a very handy knot if a line needs to be tied or released while under a load. I usually tie the half hitches after two or three turns around the piling. "Jeff" wrote in message ... Two half hitches is an almost useless knot. There are variants that are vastly superior, but two half hitches by itself is about as useful as a granny. Garland Gray II wrote: I'd put two half hitches on that list, right behind the bowline "MMC" wrote in message m... I agree with advocates of the bowline for the following reasons: 1) it will not come untied until you want it to, 2) when you want it to- you can untie it, and 3) it devalues the breaking strain of the line less than other knots. In this I mean that if a line is put under heavy strain, it will break at the knot before it reaches it's stated breaking point because of the bends required to form the knot will break first. I'm a firm believer that a boater only needs 3 knots; bowline, clove hitch, and square; along with a good idea of when to use each and the ability to do so quickly. MMC (Navy coxswain, Navy and commercial diver, sailor, and all around nosey *******) "Steven Shelikoff" wrote in message . .. On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 11:36:43 -0700, "Gordon" wrote: What's the best knot for attaching the sheets to the jib? Gotta be something better than the "pesky wabbit around the tree and down the hole" knot. Are you really having trouble making a bowline? Sure, you can use other knots to tie sheets to the jib. But they're going to be just as "pesky" and if you're a sailor, you should know how to make a bowline quickly anyway. Steve |
You're correct that the two half hitches is handy if you need to
release it under load, but there are a limited number of times you need that. Traditionally, when two half hitches is used in "permanent" rigging aloft it is seized to insure it won't come loose. When you say you take "two or three turns" before tying you are actually describing two different knots - either the "round turn and two half hitches" or the "rolling hitch." As I said, there are variants that are superior. I think you agree with me, but didn't realize these are considered different knots. Garland Gray II wrote: You are welcome to your opinion, but I think that is a rediculous statement. A granny knot is clearly a knot done in error, but two half hitches can be a very handy knot if a line needs to be tied or released while under a load. I usually tie the half hitches after two or three turns around the piling. "Jeff" wrote in message ... Two half hitches is an almost useless knot. There are variants that are vastly superior, but two half hitches by itself is about as useful as a granny. Garland Gray II wrote: I'd put two half hitches on that list, right behind the bowline "MMC" wrote in message .com... I agree with advocates of the bowline for the following reasons: 1) it will not come untied until you want it to, 2) when you want it to- you can untie it, and 3) it devalues the breaking strain of the line less than other knots. In this I mean that if a line is put under heavy strain, it will break at the knot before it reaches it's stated breaking point because of the bends required to form the knot will break first. I'm a firm believer that a boater only needs 3 knots; bowline, clove hitch, and square; along with a good idea of when to use each and the ability to do so quickly. MMC (Navy coxswain, Navy and commercial diver, sailor, and all around nosey *******) "Steven Shelikoff" wrote in message m... On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 11:36:43 -0700, "Gordon" wrote: What's the best knot for attaching the sheets to the jib? Gotta be something better than the "pesky wabbit around the tree and down the hole" knot. Are you really having trouble making a bowline? Sure, you can use other knots to tie sheets to the jib. But they're going to be just as "pesky" and if you're a sailor, you should know how to make a bowline quickly anyway. Steve |
Garland Gray II wrote:
I'd put two half hitches on that list, right behind the bowline Would you call that a reef knot, or a granny? Terry K "MMC" wrote in message m... I agree with advocates of the bowline for the following reasons: 1) it will not come untied until you want it to, 2) when you want it to- you can untie it, and 3) it devalues the breaking strain of the line less than other knots. In this I mean that if a line is put under heavy strain, it will break at the knot before it reaches it's stated breaking point because of the bends required to form the knot will break first. I'm a firm believer that a boater only needs 3 knots; bowline, clove hitch, and square; along with a good idea of when to use each and the ability to do so quickly. MMC (Navy coxswain, Navy and commercial diver, sailor, and all around nosey *******) "Steven Shelikoff" wrote in message . .. On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 11:36:43 -0700, "Gordon" wrote: What's the best knot for attaching the sheets to the jib? Gotta be something better than the "pesky wabbit around the tree and down the hole" knot. Are you really having trouble making a bowline? Sure, you can use other knots to tie sheets to the jib. But they're going to be just as "pesky" and if you're a sailor, you should know how to make a bowline quickly anyway. Steve |
In article ,
Terry Spragg wrote: Garland Gray II wrote: I'd put two half hitches on that list, right behind the bowline Would you call that a reef knot, or a granny? Two half hitches are neither reef knot nor a granny. Nor are the reef and granny the same. Now, one knot that I use all the time that I don't know the name of is a relative of the first: a half hitch with a loop taken through the hitch instead of the bitter end. I use it to gasket the main and temporarily set the fenders. Releases by simply pulling on the free end. Can be locked by taking the loop through a second hitch. Very handy and very fast to undo, even under fairly high strain. -- Jere Lull Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD) Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
Hi Gordon,
I think the best knot for attaching sheets is no knot, at all. I have an 'eye' woven into the middle of my sheets, to which a snap shackle is attached. For quick and clean attachment/removal, I don't think any knot can beat that. Sherwin D. Gordon wrote: What's the best knot for attaching the sheets to the jib? Gotta be something better than the "pesky wabbit around the tree and down the hole" knot. Thanks Gordon -- Ask not for whom the terrorist bell tolls; it tolls for thee, and thee, and thee--for decent, innocent people everywhere. |
Do you know a Dave Crew? Came from your background and I worked for him for
a while. "Dave" wrote in message ... On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 17:56:45 GMT, "MMC" said: Went through 2nd Class at NSDS in '82 I predate that a bit. Finished NSDS in '69. |
Jere Lull wrote:
In article , Terry Spragg wrote: Garland Gray II wrote: I'd put two half hitches on that list, right behind the bowline Would you call that a reef knot, or a granny? Two half hitches are neither reef knot nor a granny. Nor are the reef and granny the same. Actually, two half hitches and the granny are the same knot, topologically speaking. (Tie a granny and pull one line tight to collapse the other ...) |
In Jeff writes:
Jere Lull wrote: In article , Terry Spragg wrote: Garland Gray II wrote: I'd put two half hitches on that list, right behind the bowline Would you call that a reef knot, or a granny? Two half hitches are neither reef knot nor a granny. Nor are the reef and granny the same. Actually, two half hitches and the granny are the same knot, topologically speaking. (Tie a granny and pull one line tight to collapse the other ...) Then one should notice that a reef knot and the cow hitch or lark's head are the same knots. :-). (By the same argument.) - Lauri Tarkkonen |
In Dave writes:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 00:33:55 -0500, sherwindu said: I think the best knot for attaching sheets is no knot, at all. I have an 'eye' woven into the middle of my sheets, to which a snap shackle is attached. For quick and clean attachment/removal, I don't think any knot can beat that. I take it you haven't heard the horror stories of foredeck crew's losing teeth when a metal snap shackle on the jib starts flailing about. There are even some cases when the snap shackle has opened because it has caught some lifeline wire or something else. NOt only teeth but an eye and some broken bones and fingers belong to the list of casualities of a wildly flailing genoa and a snapshackle. The smallest and most reliable knot is by far the lark's head. - Lauri Tarkkonen |
"sherwindu" wrote in message
... Hi Gordon, I think the best knot for attaching sheets is no knot, at all. I have an 'eye' woven into the middle of my sheets, to which a snap shackle is attached. For quick and clean attachment/removal, I don't think any knot can beat that. Sherwin D. Gordon wrote: What's the best knot for attaching the sheets to the jib? Gotta be something better than the "pesky wabbit around the tree and down the hole" knot. Thanks Gordon -- Ask not for whom the terrorist bell tolls; it tolls for thee, and thee, and thee--for decent, innocent people everywhere. I think this is a very bad idea... those shackles can do a lot of damage in high winds. Fast isn't necessarily best. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 14:55:13 GMT, Rich Hampel
wrote: Sheetbend is notorious for capsizing unless you double wrap it. Better to use a Zeppelin bend. One of my favourite knots. I use it to tie leather thongs for medallions and whatnot. Has never failed in the corrosive conditions of my neck. R. |
Jere Lull wrote:
In article , Terry Spragg wrote: Garland Gray II wrote: I'd put two half hitches on that list, right behind the bowline Would you call that a reef knot, or a granny? Two half hitches are neither reef knot nor a granny. Nor are the reef and granny the same. Sorry, I think I can convince you otherwise. Try this: Untie your sneaker. Step by step, retie it. Tie the first overhand "knot", and look carefully. It's a half hitch, you can hold one end taut (this becomes the bitter end of the standing part, since you can't mess with it, it gets very bitter if you twist the free end on it, and it's the other end or the working part, the free or moving end) and look at what happens when you move the other end around, left to right, above or below the standing part. You get a half hitch. Tie another. I depends on the orientation (left or right) of the exit of the (knot bitter, nor taught bound, end, but the the working, free, end), as to wether you will end up with a reef or a granny. Two half hitches is an inverted reef, if you orient the underside rotation of the top half hitch in the "correct" way, depending on whether you start on the left end or the right end. Relativism is involved. You know, tie a reef. Pull one line tight, slide the two half hitches off. Tie the second half hitch the other way, and you got a granny, if you stretch the "used to be the free end" taut, and look at the result. It's a mathematical relationship expressible in the languge of knots, much of which I do not know. There is an intermediate stage to this transformation, and it is called a clove hitch, all from various combinations and views of two half hitches. Turn the clove hitch (tied around the other shoelace) inside out, so to speak, and you get a granny, all because you pulled one or the other end straight. Convinced? Terry K Now, one knot that I use all the time that I don't know the name of is a relative of the first: a half hitch with a loop taken through the hitch instead of the bitter end. I use it to gasket the main and temporarily set the fenders. Releases by simply pulling on the free end. Can be locked by taking the loop through a second hitch. Very handy and very fast to undo, even under fairly high strain. |
Red Cloud® wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 00:33:55 -0500, sherwindu wrote: Hi Gordon, I think the best knot for attaching sheets is no knot, at all. I have an 'eye' woven into the middle of my sheets, to which a snap shackle is attached. For quick and clean attachment/removal, I don't think any knot can beat that. I once saw a setup like that on a smaller keelboat owned by somone who was very new to sailing. He ended up having a somewhat bad day when coming about in 15+ knot winds. The snap shackle on his 130% genoa snapped itself around a shroud as it dragged across. You can imagine the rest. rusty redcloud A carabiner or other snap in shackles are bad news for jib sheets, as thet will grab anything they hit right: shrouds, forestays, other lines, whatever. A proper snap shackle has a hinged, curved end which snaps reluctantly over a locking pin. It is opened by retracting the pin. The keeper on the end of the spring loaded pin can catch a shroud and open the shackle. A granny or bowline is the best sheet knot, neither get caught on shrouds much. Tie appropriate sheets to every jib and re-reeve them through the fairleads most appropriate for that sail. Most jib changes will involve a better suited lead, inside the shrouds or outside, etc. Seizing a simple half loop through the cringle is best, and can be removed by cutting the seizing sewn through the lines. It does not hang up on anything, if you are artful with the seizing. If you must use a shackle, use a regular twist pin chain style shackle with a flat headed, knurled pin or a halyard spring lock captive pin shackle with a modest twist lock knob. Seems to me I saw an experimental setup once that used a u shaped plastic thing snapped loosely through the clew. It had a groove around it's neck's half-ends, which snapped inside the sheet clip. A retracting collar on the clip loosened a ball bearing lock, like on a ball lock pin. The sheet snap was siezed onto the doubled sheet. Very sleek looking. Still, the y where the two sheets diverge can get hung on a shroud. Costly. Not cost effective, even in plastic, IMHO. A hinged metal thing would be stronger than ten years in the sun plastic. Costlier? Tacking a lot is a bitch, if you don't have a self tending jib sail of appropriate size, sheeted close inboard and capable of driving the boat near hull speed (ahem!) upwind in a moderate breeze when flying in formation with the right main. Reef early. With a self tacker, you just steer to tack. Most big fore sails are way too big, bagged out, sheeted outside, cannot go to windward well unless the wind is exactly the right strength. The rail should never go under much, except in gusts. At high hull speeds, the apparrent wind is too strong, bagging out all but the very best rigs and brand new giant jibs, which act like a brake and a weight, heeling you. To windward you need some torque for accelleration but as speed increases, you need flat sails closely sheeted. You will always have too much wind if you have too much sail. Fall off a bit if you lost speed in the turn, regain speed, and harden up. Terry K |
Terry Spragg wrote:
Please see sorrection in my text below [full loop] If you want, try a single half hitch as a loop, and seize it with plenty of sewn thread. -TK Red Cloud® wrote: On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 00:33:55 -0500, sherwindu wrote: Hi Gordon, I think the best knot for attaching sheets is no knot, at all. I have an 'eye' woven into the middle of my sheets, to which a snap shackle is attached. For quick and clean attachment/removal, I don't think any knot can beat that. I once saw a setup like that on a smaller keelboat owned by somone who was very new to sailing. He ended up having a somewhat bad day when coming about in 15+ knot winds. The snap shackle on his 130% genoa snapped itself around a shroud as it dragged across. You can imagine the rest. rusty redcloud A carabiner or other snap in shackles are bad news for jib sheets, as thet will grab anything they hit right: shrouds, forestays, other lines, whatever. A proper snap shackle has a hinged, curved end which snaps reluctantly over a locking pin. It is opened by retracting the pin. The keeper on the end of the spring loaded pin can catch a shroud and open the shackle. [not to mention bashing your face when it flogs -tk] A granny or bowline is the best sheet knot, neither get caught on shrouds much. Tie appropriate sheets to every jib and re-reeve them through the fairleads most appropriate for that sail. Most jib changes will involve a better suited lead, inside the shrouds or outside, etc. Seizing a simple half loop [should read "full loop" -tk]through the cringle is best, and can be removed by cutting the seizing sewn through the lines. It does not hang up on anything, if you are artful with the seizing. If you must use a shackle, use a regular twist pin chain style shackle with a flat headed, knurled pin or a halyard spring lock captive pin shackle with a modest twist lock knob. Seems to me I saw an experimental setup once that used a u shaped plastic thing snapped loosely through the clew. It had a groove around it's neck's half-ends, which snapped inside the sheet clip. A retracting collar on the clip loosened a ball bearing lock, like on a ball lock pin. The sheet snap was siezed onto the doubled sheet. Very sleek looking. Still, the y where the two sheets diverge can get hung on a shroud. Costly. Not cost effective, even in plastic, IMHO. A hinged metal thing would be stronger than ten years in the sun plastic. Costlier? Tacking a lot is a bitch, if you don't have a self tending jib sail of appropriate size, sheeted close inboard and capable of driving the boat near hull speed (ahem!) upwind in a moderate breeze when flying in formation with the right main. Reef early. With a self tacker, you just steer to tack. Most big fore sails are way too big, bagged out, sheeted outside, cannot go to windward well unless the wind is exactly the right strength. The rail should never go under much, except in gusts. At high hull speeds, the apparrent wind is too strong, bagging out all but the very best rigs and brand new giant jibs, which act like a brake and a weight, heeling you. To windward you need some torque for accelleration but as speed increases, you need flat sails closely sheeted. You will always have too much wind if you have too much sail. Fall off a bit if you lost speed in the turn, regain speed, and harden up. Terry K |
I don't know guys? I have been sailing with this jib arrangement over 30 years in all
kinds of weather, and never had a problem. Maybe I am lucky or I pay attention to not allowing the sheets to flail about more than necessary? Sherwin D. Terry Spragg wrote: Red Cloud® wrote: On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 00:33:55 -0500, sherwindu wrote: Hi Gordon, I think the best knot for attaching sheets is no knot, at all. I have an 'eye' woven into the middle of my sheets, to which a snap shackle is attached. For quick and clean attachment/removal, I don't think any knot can beat that. I once saw a setup like that on a smaller keelboat owned by somone who was very new to sailing. He ended up having a somewhat bad day when coming about in 15+ knot winds. The snap shackle on his 130% genoa snapped itself around a shroud as it dragged across. You can imagine the rest. rusty redcloud A carabiner or other snap in shackles are bad news for jib sheets, as thet will grab anything they hit right: shrouds, forestays, other lines, whatever. A proper snap shackle has a hinged, curved end which snaps reluctantly over a locking pin. It is opened by retracting the pin. The keeper on the end of the spring loaded pin can catch a shroud and open the shackle. A granny or bowline is the best sheet knot, neither get caught on shrouds much. Tie appropriate sheets to every jib and re-reeve them through the fairleads most appropriate for that sail. Most jib changes will involve a better suited lead, inside the shrouds or outside, etc. Seizing a simple half loop through the cringle is best, and can be removed by cutting the seizing sewn through the lines. It does not hang up on anything, if you are artful with the seizing. If you must use a shackle, use a regular twist pin chain style shackle with a flat headed, knurled pin or a halyard spring lock captive pin shackle with a modest twist lock knob. Seems to me I saw an experimental setup once that used a u shaped plastic thing snapped loosely through the clew. It had a groove around it's neck's half-ends, which snapped inside the sheet clip. A retracting collar on the clip loosened a ball bearing lock, like on a ball lock pin. The sheet snap was siezed onto the doubled sheet. Very sleek looking. Still, the y where the two sheets diverge can get hung on a shroud. Costly. Not cost effective, even in plastic, IMHO. A hinged metal thing would be stronger than ten years in the sun plastic. Costlier? Tacking a lot is a bitch, if you don't have a self tending jib sail of appropriate size, sheeted close inboard and capable of driving the boat near hull speed (ahem!) upwind in a moderate breeze when flying in formation with the right main. Reef early. With a self tacker, you just steer to tack. Most big fore sails are way too big, bagged out, sheeted outside, cannot go to windward well unless the wind is exactly the right strength. The rail should never go under much, except in gusts. At high hull speeds, the apparrent wind is too strong, bagging out all but the very best rigs and brand new giant jibs, which act like a brake and a weight, heeling you. To windward you need some torque for accelleration but as speed increases, you need flat sails closely sheeted. You will always have too much wind if you have too much sail. Fall off a bit if you lost speed in the turn, regain speed, and harden up. Terry K |
Yes, fast is better. Fooling around with knots on a slippery pitching or rolling foredeck trying
to tie or untie a stubborn knot seems more dangerous to me. Sherwin D. "Capt. JG" wrote: "sherwindu" wrote in message ... Hi Gordon, I think the best knot for attaching sheets is no knot, at all. I have an 'eye' woven into the middle of my sheets, to which a snap shackle is attached. For quick and clean attachment/removal, I don't think any knot can beat that. Sherwin D. Gordon wrote: What's the best knot for attaching the sheets to the jib? Gotta be something better than the "pesky wabbit around the tree and down the hole" knot. Thanks Gordon -- Ask not for whom the terrorist bell tolls; it tolls for thee, and thee, and thee--for decent, innocent people everywhere. I think this is a very bad idea... those shackles can do a lot of damage in high winds. Fast isn't necessarily best. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
"sherwindu" wrote in message
... Yes, fast is better. Fooling around with knots on a slippery pitching or rolling foredeck trying to tie or untie a stubborn knot seems more dangerous to me. Sherwin D. "Capt. JG" wrote: "sherwindu" wrote in message ... Hi Gordon, I think the best knot for attaching sheets is no knot, at all. I have an 'eye' woven into the middle of my sheets, to which a snap shackle is attached. For quick and clean attachment/removal, I don't think any knot can beat that. Sherwin D. Gordon wrote: What's the best knot for attaching the sheets to the jib? Gotta be something better than the "pesky wabbit around the tree and down the hole" knot. Thanks Gordon -- Ask not for whom the terrorist bell tolls; it tolls for thee, and thee, and thee--for decent, innocent people everywhere. I think this is a very bad idea... those shackles can do a lot of damage in high winds. Fast isn't necessarily best. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com Fast is not better if the compromise is a shackle that can do damage to a person in a blink of an eye. Good knots (as you've said) are what's needed, not some foolishness about shackles. If you didn't realize it, I was basically agreeing with you. I also have never had a problem with a bowline coming undone on a jib sheet. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
And while your at it, get rid of booms which probably account for many more
injuries than getting hit by an errant shackle. Sherwin D. "Capt. JG" wrote: "sherwindu" wrote in message ... Yes, fast is better. Fooling around with knots on a slippery pitching or rolling foredeck trying to tie or untie a stubborn knot seems more dangerous to me. Sherwin D. "Capt. JG" wrote: "sherwindu" wrote in message ... Hi Gordon, I think the best knot for attaching sheets is no knot, at all. I have an 'eye' woven into the middle of my sheets, to which a snap shackle is attached. For quick and clean attachment/removal, I don't think any knot can beat that. Sherwin D. Gordon wrote: What's the best knot for attaching the sheets to the jib? Gotta be something better than the "pesky wabbit around the tree and down the hole" knot. Thanks Gordon -- Ask not for whom the terrorist bell tolls; it tolls for thee, and thee, and thee--for decent, innocent people everywhere. I think this is a very bad idea... those shackles can do a lot of damage in high winds. Fast isn't necessarily best. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com Fast is not better if the compromise is a shackle that can do damage to a person in a blink of an eye. Good knots (as you've said) are what's needed, not some foolishness about shackles. If you didn't realize it, I was basically agreeing with you. I also have never had a problem with a bowline coming undone on a jib sheet. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 00:33:55 -0500, sherwindu
wrote: Hi Gordon, I think the best knot for attaching sheets is no knot, at all. I have an 'eye' woven into the middle of my sheets, to which a snap shackle is attached. For quick and clean attachment/removal, I don't think any knot can beat that. Sherwin D. There isn't any knot which is quite so good at braining the crew on the fordeck either.... PyroJames Would arsonists please try to control themselves for the duration of the emergency. |
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