so the windage is that bad? I was trying to visualize, a little heal,
some wave masking, wind not as strong close to he waves etc, keeping
it's windage resonable. How bad to winward are they in reality?

On 22 Jun 2005 11:07:38 -0700, "wblakesx" wrote:

so the windage is that bad? I was trying to visualize, a little heal,
some wave masking, wind not as strong close to he waves etc, keeping
it's windage resonable.

No. It's more windage, to be sure. Terrible if you're a racer, worth
it if you're a cruiser. Never had a problem docking, even in strong
crosswinds. You just have to learn its ways and compensate. Never had
a problem anchoring, or dragging, even during severe thunderstorms.
Yes, lots of freeboard, rather "wind shadow", but not as much more as
one would think when one takes into account a "normal" cabin.

Overall performance. Not a speed demon. We've matched a Moody 34 (I
think that's what it was), got left in the dust by a Moody
40-something and briskly walked away from a Cape Dory 28. Also left a
GulfStar 44 in the dust. But then the GulfStar is a motorsailer.


How bad to winward are they in reality?

Performance to windward. Pretty durn close to any cruising sailboat.
Probably a bit slower. Maybe not.....

Forget heeling to reduce windage. First off, it doesn't heel that
much. 8 to 15 deg. 20 to 25 when it's really blowing. 35 deg MAX when
you're very overpowered, and then for seconds at a time.

Water/spray on deck. This happened twice in 12,000 NM of cruising.
First time was in Lake Pontratrain (SP?) near New Orleans during a
squal. Shallow, large lake. We'd hit bottom and get some spray and
even green water over the bow. Second time was a gulf crossing,
beating into 25-foot seas. Would occasionally bury the bow. Made a
couple crossings in 10 to 15-foot seas and really never got a drop on
deck or in the cockpit. BTW, the autopilot handled it all.

Construction? Like a #$@#$ battleship. We ran aground on limestone in
the keys at 6.5 KTS. Lots of noise, bow raising and stuff. Went over
and checked. Cleaned the bottom of the cast iron keel real good and
busted some limestone. On another occasion a 35-foot powerboat ran
into us forward of midships, crushing about a foot and a half of his
bow. No visible damage to us after we scraped off the pressure welded
material of his rubrail.

The hull almost doubles in thickness a few inches above the waterline.
The cast iron keel fits into a "notch", flaring out and forming a part
of the hull shape and is epoxied in and bolted with channel iron cross
members.

No, not perfect. A trade off like everything else. Lots of living room
inside, but not enough fuel and water tankage, 19-GAL each, and really
no place to put more. Lots of stowage space, but in large compartments
under the berths.

Rick

Thanks Rick, All, What would extra beam do for her? Perhaps not much? I
mean... might extra beam be less useful than the extra space would
indicate ? Is she of a convenient beam for a livaboard ( hope I'm not
too unclear here ). What would more cockpit intrusion int the below
decks do for/to her? I'm asking is there something about the design
that makes here suprisingly big inside?

Is she undersailed? Is there a tall rig or cutter that perfroms much
better?

In a direct or near direct headwind I guess it might be the thing to
douse the sails and light the motor, yes? Since she's not too beamy
would she show alot of windage still?

Is that keel substantial in righting moment,,,weight ( move wett drag )
?

David

On 24 Jun 2005 05:24:05 -0700, "wblakesx" wrote:

Thanks Rick, All, What would extra beam do for her? Perhaps not much? I
mean... might extra beam be less useful than the extra space would
indicate ? Is she of a convenient beam for a livaboard ( hope I'm not
too unclear here ). What would more cockpit intrusion int the below
decks do for/to her? I'm asking is there something about the design
that makes here suprisingly big inside?

First, a correction. I had written fuel and water is 19-Gal each. Typo
- it's actually 29-Gal each.

Extra beam would cut down on performance and probably other bad
stuff???? Not needed for extra space. Yes, things about the design
that make her surprisingly HUGE inside. With the flush deck, the
cabin(s) go the whole beam of the boat. Like having a 14-foot beam
with a trunk cabin. Except for a chain locker forward, another locker
aft and the engine room, cabins fore to aft.

More cockpit intrusion? Not really sure what you mean. If down, you
couldn't see over the coaming. If side to side you'd be hanging over
the side. Remember it is a CENTER cockpit, where beam is at the
greatest. The foot well is the proper depth for comfortable sitting,
ie "chair" height. Remember it goes totally into the engine room, not
in living space.


Is she undersailed? Is there a tall rig or cutter that perfroms much
better?

I don't think so. I had the ketch and many times sailed under jib and
mizzen when really blowing, going faster than overpowering with the
main. I tended to stick with the "working jib", actually a 110%. I
seldom hanked on the 165%.

In a direct or near direct headwind I guess it might be the thing to
douse the sails and light the motor, yes? Since she's not too beamy
would she show alot of windage still?

Why? Not to sound nasty, but if you're in that much of a hurry, why
not get a twin engine cabin cruiser? Or better yet an airplane?
(Intentional sarcasim with a smile).

Really, get off the windage thing. It's just one of the many tradeoffs
that one makes with any design. It's not that bad. A friend's GulfStar
44 has a lot more windage. It weighs more so is a little slower to
react to it.

Any sailboat is going to slow down close hauled. If trying to get
directly to windard, any sailboat is going to have to tack and take
much longer to get there. It's just the way it is. So a whiz-bang
racer, with hardly any room below is going to do it in 10 hours, and a
comfy, roomy cruiser is going to take 12. Or 14. So what? You've got
to be somewhere, and wherever you are you've got to eat. Right?

One more thing re W*I*N*D*A*G*E!!!!!!!!!!!!! Years ago I had a Morgan
27, a pure racer. Used it as a cruiser. All the local racing nuts were
agahast at the Bimini I had added. WINDAGE!!!! WINDAGE!!!! OH MY
GOD!!!! WINDAGE!!!! Then they saw the turnbuckles were open to the
air. When they noticed the anchor on the bow pulpit, and the rode
coiled up there, they would fall down and gasp. All that probably
slowed her down a tenth of a knot going to windward.


Is that keel substantial in righting moment,,,weight ( move wett drag )
?

Oh yeah! As I had said she never heeled more than 35-deg, and then
only for seconds. In fact I attempted to pull her over the do some
painting, with a Ford F-150 pickup on a halyard. Got her to about
35-deg and the back of the pickup came off the ground and I was
suddenly backing up.

David, find a real Coronado and go look at it. Go aboard.

Rick

Thanks Rick, I had looked at a 45 afew years ago but with all things
going on it hadn't settled in my mind the way the cockpit more sat on
the boat rather than in it might account for the usefulness of the
interior. Also the beam is offset by the height of the deck, perhaps
making the interior more useful.

Windage, yeh ok...