On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 22:45:12 -0400, Jeff wrote:

Mic wrote:

In
many locations, the average summer wind could be offered as proof that
sailing is physically impossible!


I really cant think of any, where would you suggest?

The average wind in Myrtle Beach in August is 4 knots.


Yep. The reputation of the tasman sea is an example or the north
atlantic. But the trade winds are different and the pacific "milk
run"...

In all of those cases you'll encounter winds stronger than your
implied average.


Yep thats why I mentioned them, and other than the "horn" and the tip
of south africa, well the artics too...relative to the vastness of the
ocean, I dont consider that alot.

But do you actually have a point to this?

yes the generalization of average winds as noted would not necessary
apply to these regions.


How many people do you see go out when it is 30 knots sustained. Near
zero.


This is total nonsense. While I don't often leave the dock in high
winds, at least once a year I find myself out in strong winds. Last
year's episode had lighter wind than our normal max - it was about 30
but on the stern - it was the 10+ foot confused sea that annoyed my
wife.

There is a big difference in being out when 30 knots of wind occur and
going out when there is that much wind, it not nonsense...it is fact.
As you said yourself you dont often go out in such conditions. And
many in pleasure boating and even passage making dont either.


And for a dodger, it isn't the wind while sailing that counts, the
wind at the dock can be just as bad.

yep

A few days after I launched this
year we had gusts to about 50.


...



No, obviously at some point it is prudent to remove the canvas.
However, you made comments that seemed to imply that wind over 21
knots is so uncommon as to be not worth considering.


No actually that is what is the most worth considering, but am of the
opinion that it is not a frequent stat., "sustained" winds over 21
knots, geographic exceptions noted.

I have no idea what you're trying to say ...

Simple I take the "statement" as reasonable fact based on experience
and practically every cruiser log published on the net.
That the average sustained winds are usually less than about 21 knots,
certain geographically noted exceptions excluded.


...

How many boats have the ready provision for emerg. steering? I only
know of one production boat as such. Why dont they have that, is
almost common sense, (common sense isnt so common:{} )
Most are of a homebrew design. either as foresights or as required.

My boat has two (potentially) independent rudder systems, with
provision for an emergency tiller on either. My previous boat, and
many quality boats with wheel steering, has provision for an emergency
tiller.


Yes, but not rudder....

As I said, my current boat has two complete systems, including two
rudders.

How are they configured? Are they production original, is one a
homebrew or off the shelf?




I have seen a "homebrew" pindel and grudeon rudder that worked like a
cassette. The cassette was inserted to the grudeons and then the
rudder through the cassette - very cool.....so easy and cheap to make.
By using this cassette method is ingenious,,,,as trying to install a
rudder in full on rough conditions might be more of a challenge.

Don't a number of dinghies use this arrangement?

Maybe but not what I have seen? This arrangement was not on a dingy.


Frankly, if I were building a boat specifically for long distance
passages, I'd want to minimize the chance of damage, with a heavy duty
rudder mounted on skeg.


Would that be "balanced"? If so How?

Nope, it wouldn't be balanced. That's a nice attribute, but not
necessary. If you're considering scenarios where you need to replace
the rudder underway, you probably need a protected rudder more than a
balanced one.

I really need to create another topic on the issue of rudder and
keels. As I am looking at 2 significantly (keel and rudder)
different boats. A grampian 26 and a bayfield 25 and will be looking
for opinions from which to help make a decision.


Well thats really another topic "rudders and keels".

I see a lot of spade rudders out there....at least the boats I am
noticing.

But its leads you to worrying about emergency rudders. This is not
the path of simplicity.

Not necessarly. Alot of factors of necessary force on a tiller has to
do with sail balance and rudder design, current,wind, etc/



No, that's right up there with poly sails and pvc davits. And don't
forget pepper in bottom paint.

Havent seen the pvc davits anywhere.....yet;}}


Fortunately, they haven't caught on, but I've seen a few.


...
However, sailcloth is about a buck a square foot. Spinnaker cloth is
even less. So what do you save? 50 bucks? If I'm going to sit at
the sewing machine for a few hours, plus put in a mess of grommets,
I'd rather spend the $50 and have something I'm proud of.


Actually I dont think many of the polys are sewn,,,,and your going to
like the fact that some use carpet tape.

A real class act. But I understand. I've owned an old VW bug that was
built out of parts salvaged from several bugs, a Karmann Ghia and an
old Porsche. I've also owned a new Mercedes. Both had their charm,
but believe me, the Mercedes was a lot more enjoyable to drive,
especially if I had to drive more than walking distance from my apartment.




Actually, I'd say that most of Pascoe's horrible examples are a big
step up from poly dodgers.


I would not use poly on a dodger...never said I would.

The point I was making was regarding you statement "Why would anyone
use third rate materials for something that takes a lot of manual
labor?" Was the fact of the state of build of many production boats
apply to your comment and can not just be directed at homebrew
projects.


OK. Are you claiming to because some builders use crap you're
entitled to do the same? As you wish.

No. The thread was put out for opinions, a good thing. Come to think
of it no one suggested any possible tests of methods or materials, I
think should one proceed with such material, tests
would be inorder. Design could be the determining factor in
reasonable success or failure. As Glenn pointed out the strenght of a
curve would be greater than a square....- not possible with abs.