"Capt. ****®" displaying symptoms of senile
dementia, spewed the following ...

"John Cairns" wrote in message
.. .

"Capt. Neal®" wrote in message
...

"Gary L. Burnore" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 05 Jun 2005 21:59:29 GMT, "Roger Long"
top posted like a ****ing moron and wrote:

It has been repeatedly demonstrated that airplanes glide significantly
farther (up to 20%) when the nose is raised to slow them down enough to
stop the prop and best glide speed is then resumed. I can't see any
reason why this wouldn't be true of boat propellers as well.

Because aircraft are entirely in the air an boats are partially in
water. Airplane props are feathered, boat props aren't.


I used to fly an ultralight aircraft - a Rotec Rally 2B. It had a
two-bladed wood prop that was driven by a Kohler air-cooled
432cc two-stroke engine via a centrifugal clutch and belt.

I could climb to about two or three thousand feet and shut off
the motor and the propeller would free-wheel because of the centrifugal
clutch being disengage. The glide ratio was terrible
with the prop free wheeling - one could feel the drag it caused.

I put a brake on the clutch hub and stopped the prop from
free-wheeling and the glide ration increased dramatically.

The same extra drag is evident on a boat propeller that free-wheels.
It's as if the two blades turn into a fixed disk.

CN

You guys need to get a room.

John Cairns


Did you go skiing again this winter? Did your break your leg again?
I'm telling you, KKKaty, ya gotta watch that osteoporosis since you're
post-menopausal.

****

Okay, since Steve and Gary won't help, I will. Look carefully below:

Path:
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From: "John Cairns"
Newsgroups: rec.boats.cruising,alt.usenet.kooks,alt.sailing.as a
References:


Subject: Keep the propeller fixed or let it turn?
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Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 02:27:37 GMT
Xref: newsmst01b.news.prodigy.com rec.boats.cruising:257982
alt.usenet.kooks:953006 alt.sailing.asa:396848

See the line that reads "NNTP-Posting-Host". Remember the number sequence.

From: "katysails"
Newsgroups: alt.sailing.asa
References: m

.com

.com
Subject: Boat built in desert a dream come true
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Notice anything there? Read them twice if you're getting confused.
Now, I'll let you get some sleep, they come around early in the a.m. to
empty the dumpster behind the Winn-Dixie, wouldn't want to deprive you of
your breakfast.

John Cairns

On Mon, 06 Jun 2005 03:44:41 GMT, "John Cairns"
wrote:


"Capt. ****®" displaying symptoms of senile
dementia, spewed the following ...

"John Cairns" wrote in message
.. .

"Capt. Neal®" wrote in message
...

"Gary L. Burnore" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 05 Jun 2005 21:59:29 GMT, "Roger Long"
top posted like a ****ing moron and wrote:

It has been repeatedly demonstrated that airplanes glide significantly
farther (up to 20%) when the nose is raised to slow them down enough to
stop the prop and best glide speed is then resumed. I can't see any
reason why this wouldn't be true of boat propellers as well.

Because aircraft are entirely in the air an boats are partially in
water. Airplane props are feathered, boat props aren't.


I used to fly an ultralight aircraft - a Rotec Rally 2B. It had a
two-bladed wood prop that was driven by a Kohler air-cooled
432cc two-stroke engine via a centrifugal clutch and belt.

I could climb to about two or three thousand feet and shut off
the motor and the propeller would free-wheel because of the centrifugal
clutch being disengage. The glide ratio was terrible
with the prop free wheeling - one could feel the drag it caused.

I put a brake on the clutch hub and stopped the prop from
free-wheeling and the glide ration increased dramatically.

The same extra drag is evident on a boat propeller that free-wheels.
It's as if the two blades turn into a fixed disk.

CN

You guys need to get a room.

John Cairns


Did you go skiing again this winter? Did your break your leg again?
I'm telling you, KKKaty, ya gotta watch that osteoporosis since you're
post-menopausal.

****

Okay, since Steve and Gary won't help, I will. Look carefully below:

Path:
newssvr33.news.prodigy.com!newsdbm06.news.prodigy .com!newsdst02.news.prodigy.com!newsmst01b.news.pr odigy.com!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com! newssvr33.news.prodigy.com.POSTED!e2e32dd9!not-for-mail
From: "John Cairns"
Newsgroups: rec.boats.cruising,alt.usenet.kooks,alt.sailing.as a
References:


Subject: Keep the propeller fixed or let it turn?
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Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 02:27:37 GMT
Xref: newsmst01b.news.prodigy.com rec.boats.cruising:257982
alt.usenet.kooks:953006 alt.sailing.asa:396848

See the line that reads "NNTP-Posting-Host". Remember the number sequence.

From: "katysails"
Newsgroups: alt.sailing.asa
References: m

s.com

s.com
Subject: Boat built in desert a dream come true
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Feb 2005 21:44:50 GMT)
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Organization: AT&T Worldnet

Notice anything there? Read them twice if you're getting confused.
Now, I'll let you get some sleep, they come around early in the a.m. to
empty the dumpster behind the Winn-Dixie, wouldn't want to deprive you of
your breakfast.

WD is still in business? They pulled out of my area two years ago.
Figured they'd be 404 by now.


John Cairns






--

Let any real Christians reading here join me in prayer that the
Lord would reward the foul imp posting as "Fred Hall" according
to his works.

Pastor Winter

"Flemming Torp" fletopkanelbolle2rp.danmark wrote in
:

Anybody in this group that can convince one of us, that he
is not right? ...



Let the boat drive the prop when sailing. That shaft produces 15-25A of DC
power on Lionheart from her shaft-driven alternator. No sense wasting good
power draggin' a stalled prop behind you. Lionheart's Perkins 4-108
transmission has been freewheeling because of her shaft alternator since
1986. Doesn't seem to have hurt it a bit.

Look over in alt.binaries.pictures.sports.ocean at the engine room on
Lionheart under the center cockpit. The shaft alternator is driven by a
flat belt from a large pulley on the shaft. At 8 knots, the special
alternator, itself, is turning about 200 RPM. To get the engine started,
you must turn off the excitation current to this shaft alternator so you
can remove the keyring from its switch to move the keyring to the engine
control panel to crank the diesel. This makes sure you have secured the
shaft alternator before starting the engine....captain proof.

In article ,
fletopkanelbolle2rp.danmark says...


My brother in law, and I have had a discussion of whether it
is best - from a pure speed point of view (no consideration
to the mechanics/oil/maintenance/gearbox etc. here ...)
whether you should let your "fixed three bladed propeller"
run/turn or keep it fixed (like put into gear) when sailing
just for the wind with your sails in a 34 feet cruiser
weighing roughly 5 T ... We have - unsuccesfully - tried to
find out using the log ... the results were not conclusive -
or one of us would not admit, that the other was right ... I
think we need a testimony from someone, that has a
'scientific based valid answer' ... or just knows for sure
...

The assumption is: There is no way to move, turn, 'collapse'
anything on the propeller - the 'blades' are fixed ... (hard
to explain in a language, that is not your own ... hope you
get my point).


1. Many transmissions require a running engine to keep them lubricated.
Such transmissions should be locvked in reverse to prevent freewheeling.

2. A freewheeling propeller creates more drag than a locked on.. Just
consider a helicopter. Engine out and rotors freewheeling, the aircraft
will go down safely. Rotors locked and it drops like a stone.

"Larry W4CSC" wrote
Look over in alt.binaries.pictures.sports.ocean at the engine room
on
Lionheart under the center cockpit. (snip) This makes sure you have
secured the
shaft alternator before starting the engine....captain proof.


Gee, isn't this kind of "niggling and perfectionist", to quote a well
respected rec.boats contributor?

Of course, there is nothing wrong with that

--

Roger Long

Gogarty wrote:

In article ,
fletopkanelbolle2rp.danmark says...

My brother in law, and I have had a discussion of whether it
is best - from a pure speed point of view (no consideration
to the mechanics/oil/maintenance/gearbox etc. here ...)
whether you should let your "fixed three bladed propeller"
run/turn or keep it fixed (like put into gear) when sailing
just for the wind with your sails in a 34 feet cruiser
weighing roughly 5 T ... We have - unsuccesfully - tried to
find out using the log ... the results were not conclusive -
or one of us would not admit, that the other was right ... I
think we need a testimony from someone, that has a
'scientific based valid answer' ... or just knows for sure
...
The assumption is: There is no way to move, turn, 'collapse'
anything on the propeller - the 'blades' are fixed ... (hard
to explain in a language, that is not your own ... hope you
get my point).

1. Many transmissions require a running engine to keep them lubricated.
Such transmissions should be locvked in reverse to prevent freewheeling.


This is not what he asked. He said specifically
from a pure speed point of view (no consideration
to the mechanics/oil/maintenance/gearbox etc. here ...)

Plus not all transmissions can be locked in reverse to prevent
freewheeling. Ours cannot. Doesn't matter what gear you stop in, the
shaft will freewheel unless you stop it by putting a vice grip on the
shaft or something (IMHO a bad idea, but I know someone who does
this).

2. A freewheeling propeller creates more drag than a locked on.. Just
consider a helicopter. Engine out and rotors freewheeling, the aircraft
will go down safely. Rotors locked and it drops like a stone.

This is probably a good analogy, although not all aircraft principles
will translate to water and v.v. (as the Wright brothers found)

My answer would be the same as yours and also that if you have a two
blade prop, it should be locked in line with the keel if it is
possible to determine where that is etc.

In our case, the freewheeling prop made so much noise that one of the
first things we did was get a feathering prop. We do have evidence
that feathering the prop increases our sailing speed, in addition to
being quieter.

grandma Rosalie

"Dave" wrote in message ...
On Mon, 06 Jun 2005 08:01:55 -0400, Gogarty said:

A freewheeling propeller creates more drag than a locked on.. Just
consider a helicopter. Engine out and rotors freewheeling, the aircraft
will go down safely. Rotors locked and it drops like a stone.

Bad analogy. In a helicopter when the rotors are freewheeling after the
engine dies they're still rotating in a direction that generates lift.

FOOL! Rotating in the same direction, yes. Producing lift, no. They only
produce drag because of the angle of attack.

CN

In article ,
says...
On Mon, 06 Jun 2005 08:01:55 -0400, Gogarty said:

A freewheeling propeller creates more drag than a locked on.. Just
consider a helicopter. Engine out and rotors freewheeling, the aircraft
will go down safely. Rotors locked and it drops like a stone.

Bad analogy. In a helicopter when the rotors are freewheeling after the
engine dies they're still rotating in a direction that generates lift.



I just have to ask. In what way is it a bad analogy?

Possibly you are thinking the freewheeling prop would somehow generate
some forward motion. Not likely or you would have a perpetual motion
machine. Stop the external power, in the case of a sail boat, the wind,
to a freewheeling prop and, as with the auto rotating helicopter having
it's fall slowed, the prop just slows you down faster. Neither generates
more energy, they consume it and thus slow the downward/forward motion
of what ever they are attached to. Every action has..........etc.

Personally I figure, locked or freewheeling, the difference in the
amount of drag caused by a kicker's prop is going to be so small as to
be a total non issue unless you are into times in parts of a second in
which case you pull the damn thing out of the water anyway.


--
Mike G.
Heirloom Woods

www.heirloom-woods.net

On 6 Jun 2005 09:48:03 -0500, Dave wrote:

On Mon, 06 Jun 2005 08:01:55 -0400, Gogarty said:

A freewheeling propeller creates more drag than a locked on.. Just
consider a helicopter. Engine out and rotors freewheeling, the aircraft
will go down safely. Rotors locked and it drops like a stone.

Bad analogy. In a helicopter when the rotors are freewheeling after the
engine dies they're still rotating in a direction that generates lift.


Hmmmm, so Dave feels that a boat prop will reverse direction if the
drive is placed in neutral from forward, while under way?

Brian Whatcott Altus, OK

"Brian Whatcott" skrev i en
meddelelse
...
On 6 Jun 2005 09:48:03 -0500, Dave
wrote:

On Mon, 06 Jun 2005 08:01:55 -0400, Gogarty
said:

A freewheeling propeller creates more drag than a locked
on.. Just
consider a helicopter. Engine out and rotors
freewheeling, the aircraft
will go down safely. Rotors locked and it drops like a
stone.

Bad analogy. In a helicopter when the rotors are
freewheeling after the
engine dies they're still rotating in a direction that
generates lift.


Hmmmm, so Dave feels that a boat prop will reverse
direction if the
drive is placed in neutral from forward, while under way?

Brian Whatcott Altus, OK

Being a sailor with no experience with aviation, I do not
understand the helicopter analogy.
In my opinion, a helicopter driven by the engine corresponds
in my understanding to a sailboat, where the propeller is
set to drive the boat *backwards* ..... When the propeller
on the boat 'gets the chance' to run without the force of
the motor, that is just sailing forward by sail, I expect
the propeller to turn in the opposite direction ... that is
'forward' ... If that happens in a helicopter, I would
expect the helicopter to hit the ground very fast ... don't
you? I do not assume, that there is a lot of inertia in a
propeller or shaft en a sailboat - may be that is the case
in a helicopter, and that could explain the smooth landing
without the assistance from the motor - or I'm I completely
wrong here? ...

--
Flemming Torp