Gogarty wrote in news:FbWdnc2PAfb0bwPfRVn-
:

By the way, what ever
happened to diesel outboards? Didn't Yanmar make these great heavy
monsters?



Yanmar priced them like a Lincoln Navigator, fully loaded, which meant
their demise. Evidently, most boaters aren't nearly as stupid as Yanmar
thought they were. They still sell very well in countries with so much
socialism that gas is $6/gallon, loaded up with taxes.

The Yanmar doesn't even have leather seats with lumbar supports....or
climate controlled air conditioning.

At $2/gallon, it would have to last 187 years to get a break-even point....

In article , Jeff
wrote:

2) Over the stern rudder or binnacle/shaft type rudder?
Once more, seems the over the stern rudder would be less
problematical and repairable even at sea. No thru hulls or gears
would seem better.

Are you asking tiller vs. wheel? I prefer the tiller for small
boats, a wheel for larger boats. If you're asking about the rudder
hung on the stern or a post, that depends a lot on the total design
of the boat.

Our Tanzer's rudder is transom-hung, which I like because I can --and
do-- inspect it and its fittings periodically. When I didn't like the
original rudder, I built a new one. If the rudder breaks, a shelf and
fiddle onboard can serve as an emergency rudder. Being further back
increases the distance between the keel and rudder, giving it better
leverage & a bit less induced drag.

Tiller or wheel was available. I prefer tiller because it's simpler and
more responsive. Installing an autopilot is far easier and cheaper.
Pushed up to the backstay, the whole cockpit is open.

Oh, and we find our Xan just about perfect for local cruising. Have done
a few multi-week cruises on the ICW and plan to do the Bahamas with her
for a few months, but mostly use her as our "summer home" 60 or so days
of our six month season, most mornings enjoying a different
million-dollar back yard.

BTW, our first consideration in a boat is the berths. Dual-use bunks get
old fast. If we can't both get in a permanent bunk and be comfortable,
we move on. That eliminated most of the boats we looked at under 35' and
quite a few larger.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

I would have never thought that this would be an issue. Having started our
family cruising in an O'Day 23 with a 9.9 Johnson and graduating to an S2
9.1 with a Yanmar 2GM (with several larger rentals scattered in between and
after including a couple of schooners) I have some experience with inboard
diesel versus outboard gas.

As our first family boat, the O'Day was a delight. Our home harbor was a
sailboat haven. You learned not to use the engine. In those days, there was
a trash dock up to which you learned to sail and drop the trash into the
barrels. Those who motored were shunned. You sailed to the mooring; if you
used the motor you risked ridicule. Yet, there were times when you needed to
run the outboard. Transiting Woods Hole required use of the outboard.
However, a steep following sea approaching the Hole from the south would
often drown the outboard. The water would come over the transom and the
engine would start to sputter. "Putt, putt, putt, varoom." The look from the
children and spouse would be answered by, "Don't worry, it is just gasping
for air." My look of confidence was not shared by my brain which was
thinking "this is stupid, get an inboard."

The S2 was a great upgrade. No gas cans in the cockpit. No concern about
water over the transom drowning the engine. It was easy to single hand
(after roller furling and lazy jacks; and an autopilot which I swore I would
never use). It also had a head in which I could stand. Prudence still
required keeping the engine running while transiting Woods Hole, but I did
not have to worry about a following sea drowning the engine.

The S2 had a transom mounted rudder. It could turn on a dime. I loved it. I
have sailed a good number of boats, but I still loved the stern mount. I
think it is more work, but for the feel of the boat you cannot beat it.

Tom


"Lee308" wrote in message
oups.com...
These two choices seem to vary widely in sailboats between 25 and 32
ft. What are your opinions on each. This boat will be a crusier, not a
marina livaboard.
Speed of boat is not an issue.

1) Diesel inboard or over the stern gas outboard?
Outboard easy to reach and repair/replace, no worry of shaft seal
leak and less thru hulls, but small diesel's are very fuel effcient
plus large alternator.
2) Over the stern rudder or binnacle/shaft type rudder?
Once more, seems the over the stern rudder would be less
problematical and repairable even at sea. No thru hulls or gears
would seem better.

Yout thoughts would be appreciated.
Lee (looking for my cruiser)

"Tom R." wrote in message
...
The water would come over the transom and the
engine would start to sputter. "Putt, putt, putt, varoom." The look from
the
children and spouse would be answered by, "Don't worry, it is just gasping
for air." My look of confidence was not shared by my brain which was
thinking "this is stupid, get an inboard."

I admire your tenacity during a somewhat difficult situation. You have a
skill shared by few. Your children will never forgot your look of
confidence and will have a grand time sailing.

Thanks. The children are much older now and enjoy sailing very much. Years
later they asked me if some of the situations in which we sailed scared me
as much as it did them. (I never intentionally put them in any danger, but
sometimes a sudden squall would pop up or there would be an occasional rough
sea.) I told them that sure I was scared, but I did not have time to show
it; I was too busy thinking about the options and plans B and C should
anything go wrong. They are all married now, but we had some great sails
together when they were younger.

Tom

"FMac" wrote in message
...

"Tom R." wrote in message
...
The water would come over the transom and the
engine would start to sputter. "Putt, putt, putt, varoom." The look from
the
children and spouse would be answered by, "Don't worry, it is just
gasping
for air." My look of confidence was not shared by my brain which was
thinking "this is stupid, get an inboard."

I admire your tenacity during a somewhat difficult situation. You have a
skill shared by few. Your children will never forgot your look of
confidence and will have a grand time sailing.

l. Inboard or ANY type is vastly better than an outboard. Reason: the
outboard prop being mounted far behind the tansom may come free of the
water and have the rpm go 'exponential' when the prop is not in the
water. When pooped by a boarding wave the transom hung outboard will
flood with water which will/may 'hydro-lock' then seize and stop.

2. Stern hung rudders will 'ventilate' - sucking air down the sides of
the rudder - thus making them VERY inefficient and causing humongous
drag. Stern mounted pintel hung rudders are usually an unbalanced
design requiring huge loads to move them off center when the boat is a
'at speed'; plus, are very vulnerable to breakage if the boat slips
backwards such as when hove-to.

The choice for a 'modern' boat: inboard engine with 'under-the-boat'
rudder.


thuIn article .com,
Lee308 wrote:

These two choices seem to vary widely in sailboats between 25 and 32
ft. What are your opinions on each. This boat will be a crusier, not a
marina livaboard.
Speed of boat is not an issue.

1) Diesel inboard or over the stern gas outboard?
Outboard easy to reach and repair/replace, no worry of shaft seal
leak and less thru hulls, but small diesel's are very fuel effcient
plus large alternator.
2) Over the stern rudder or binnacle/shaft type rudder?
Once more, seems the over the stern rudder would be less
problematical and repairable even at sea. No thru hulls or gears
would seem better.

Yout thoughts would be appreciated.
Lee (looking for my cruiser)

In article ,
Rich Hampel wrote:

2. Stern hung rudders will 'ventilate' - sucking air down the sides of
the rudder - thus making them VERY inefficient and causing humongous
drag. Stern mounted pintel hung rudders are usually an unbalanced
design requiring huge loads to move them off center when the boat is a
'at speed'; plus, are very vulnerable to breakage if the boat slips
backwards such as when hove-to.

Slight disagreement. If the rudder's at all properly shaped, this won't
happen to a significant degree. I built our new one to NACA 0012 specs
and have surprised some people by shoving the tiller over hard at hull
speed, tracking only a boatlength away from our inbound track.

And when I heave to, we go slowly forward. The tiller tamer holds it
easily.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

"Lee308" wrote in message
oups.com...
These two choices seem to vary widely in sailboats between 25 and 32
ft. What are your opinions on each. This boat will be a crusier, not a
marina livaboard.
Speed of boat is not an issue.

Not widely. Most boats 27' and up have inboards.


1) Diesel inboard or over the stern gas outboard?
Outboard easy to reach and repair/replace, no worry of shaft seal
leak and less thru hulls, but small diesel's are very fuel effcient
plus large alternator.

What's to worry about re/shaft seal?

2) Over the stern rudder or binnacle/shaft type rudder?
Once more, seems the over the stern rudder would be less
problematical and repairable even at sea. No thru hulls or gears
would seem better.

Skeg hung rudder-if you're really worried about the rudder, you should be
worried about losing the rudder more than anything. You seem overly
concerned about sinking. You know they have cruisers that are advertised as
unsinkable, may be you should consider one of those.

http://www.etapyachts.com/

John Cairns



Yout thoughts would be appreciated.
Lee (looking for my cruiser)