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Do I need crew?
After my aborted cruise, I want to bring my boat back from Sarasota to
Shell Point in N. Florida (Just south of Tallahassee) for hurricane season. It is 185 miles straight across the northern Gulf of Mexico and I estimate this is about 36-48 hours sail. My only crewmember currently is my 14 yr old son who isnt really qualified to do a watch. I do not want to do the several days coast hopping route as I have done that too many times and just want to get her home (a 28' S2). So, I am wondering if I should venture to do it with just my son or if I really need another crew member. Strange but I no longer know many qualified sailors, most I know are beginners who would just get in their own way. "Ragtime" is a 1981 8.5 M S2 with new standing rigging, running rigging, sails etc, Epirb, etc so is probably well equipped. What do Y'all think? |
aw just do it yourself ya pansy.
wrote in message oups.com... After my aborted cruise, I want to bring my boat back from Sarasota to Shell Point in N. Florida (Just south of Tallahassee) for hurricane season. It is 185 miles straight across the northern Gulf of Mexico and I estimate this is about 36-48 hours sail. My only crewmember currently is my 14 yr old son who isnt really qualified to do a watch. I do not want to do the several days coast hopping route as I have done that too many times and just want to get her home (a 28' S2). So, I am wondering if I should venture to do it with just my son or if I really need another crew member. Strange but I no longer know many qualified sailors, most I know are beginners who would just get in their own way. "Ragtime" is a 1981 8.5 M S2 with new standing rigging, running rigging, sails etc, Epirb, etc so is probably well equipped. What do Y'all think? |
Why do you feel that your 14-year-old is unqualified? Maybe we have
different definitions of "qualified to stand watch" but I'd rely on my 12-year-old daughter under these circumstances. Maybe this is the universe giving him an opportunity to show you he's more responsible than you think? I know I tend to underestimate my kids 'cause I think of them as having been newborns about 5 minutes ago. They're often capable of so much more than I give them credit for. I say, give him the opportunity to show his mettle. It'll be a great bonding and growth experience for both of you! |
Frank wrote:
Why do you feel that your 14-year-old is unqualified? Maybe we have different definitions of "qualified to stand watch" but I'd rely on my 12-year-old daughter under these circumstances. Maybe this is the universe giving him an opportunity to show you he's more responsible than you think? I know I tend to underestimate my kids 'cause I think of them as having been newborns about 5 minutes ago. They're often capable of so much more than I give them credit for. I say, give him the opportunity to show his mettle. It'll be a great bonding and growth experience for both of you! When I was 14 I took watches at the helm at night in small craft warning seas in the Molokai channel in my Dad's Blanchard 33.' One crew member sleeping below, the other sleeping beside me in the cockpit. Stephen |
Stephen Trapani wrote:
Frank wrote: Why do you feel that your 14-year-old is unqualified? Maybe we have different definitions of "qualified to stand watch" but I'd rely on my 12-year-old daughter under these circumstances. Maybe this is the universe giving him an opportunity to show you he's more responsible than you think? I know I tend to underestimate my kids 'cause I think of them as having been newborns about 5 minutes ago. They're often capable of so much more than I give them credit for. I say, give him the opportunity to show his mettle. It'll be a great bonding and growth experience for both of you! When I was 14 I took watches at the helm at night in small craft warning seas in the Molokai channel in my Dad's Blanchard 33.' One crew member sleeping below, the other sleeping beside me in the cockpit. Stephen I'd be a little more conservative in this area. Could he steer a compass course? Would he know what to do if he saw another boat approaching? Probably depends on what hazards lay along your intended track. |
"Frank" wrote in message
oups.com... Why do you feel that your 14-year-old is unqualified? Maybe we have different definitions of "qualified to stand watch" but I'd rely on my 12-year-old daughter under these circumstances. Maybe this is the universe giving him an opportunity to show you he's more responsible than you think? I know I tend to underestimate my kids 'cause I think of them as having been newborns about 5 minutes ago. They're often capable of so much more than I give them credit for. I say, give him the opportunity to show his mettle. It'll be a great bonding and growth experience for both of you! What's wrong with sending him to a sailing class? That would give him an opportunity to learn and build self-confidence. It would also give some confidence in his abilities to his father. |
wrote in message oups.com... After my aborted cruise, I want to bring my boat back from Sarasota to Shell Point in N. Florida (Just south of Tallahassee) for hurricane season. It is 185 miles straight across the northern Gulf of Mexico and I estimate this is about 36-48 hours sail. My only crewmember currently is my 14 yr old son who isnt really qualified to do a watch. I do not want to do the several days coast hopping route as I have done that too many times and just want to get her home (a 28' S2). So, I am wondering if I should venture to do it with just my son or if I really need another crew member. Strange but I no longer know many qualified sailors, most I know are beginners who would just get in their own way. "Ragtime" is a 1981 8.5 M S2 with new standing rigging, running rigging, sails etc, Epirb, etc so is probably well equipped. What do Y'all think? Hey, you need crew, drop me a line. Can't contribute towards provisioning but I like going offshore, even if it's only in the Gulf. Currently have crewed 5000+ bluewater miles, all of it extended passages of a minimum 3 days, including an Atlantic crossing last year. John Cairns |
"JG" wrote:
"Frank" wrote in message roups.com... Why do you feel that your 14-year-old is unqualified? Maybe we have different definitions of "qualified to stand watch" but I'd rely on my 12-year-old daughter under these circumstances. Maybe this is the universe giving him an opportunity to show you he's more responsible than you think? I know I tend to underestimate my kids 'cause I think of them as having been newborns about 5 minutes ago. They're often capable of so much more than I give them credit for. There are two parts to whether someone is qualified to stand watch a) Are they physically capable of sailing the boat - i.e. do they know how to sail? b) Do they have the judgment and experience to do so? It is easy enough to give a 14 year old the knowledge to sail the boat. I can sail our boat by myself so I can take a watch for Bob. There are some things I can't do very well - I'm not strong enough to manage the main. But I can tack and trim the sails and steer a course A person taking a watch should know what the course is, and whether boats that are seen are on a collision course and what to do if they are. If you are sailing with just the 2 of you, the second issue can be addressed by telling him to wake you if he has a question about the course or the weather or another ship. In my case, if the wind picks up and I need to furl the main, I have to wake Bob up. That's one of the reasons we do not go offshore for long passages. In your case, you might sleep in the cockpit next to your son. I say, give him the opportunity to show his mettle. It'll be a great bonding and growth experience for both of you! What's wrong with sending him to a sailing class? That would give him an opportunity to learn and build self-confidence. It would also give some confidence in his abilities to his father. grandma Rosalie |
"Rosalie B." wrote in message
... "JG" wrote: "Frank" wrote in message groups.com... Why do you feel that your 14-year-old is unqualified? Maybe we have different definitions of "qualified to stand watch" but I'd rely on my 12-year-old daughter under these circumstances. Maybe this is the universe giving him an opportunity to show you he's more responsible than you think? I know I tend to underestimate my kids 'cause I think of them as having been newborns about 5 minutes ago. They're often capable of so much more than I give them credit for. There are two parts to whether someone is qualified to stand watch a) Are they physically capable of sailing the boat - i.e. do they know how to sail? b) Do they have the judgment and experience to do so? It is easy enough to give a 14 year old the knowledge to sail the boat. I can sail our boat by myself so I can take a watch for Bob. There are some things I can't do very well - I'm not strong enough to manage the main. But I can tack and trim the sails and steer a course A person taking a watch should know what the course is, and whether boats that are seen are on a collision course and what to do if they are. If you are sailing with just the 2 of you, the second issue can be addressed by telling him to wake you if he has a question about the course or the weather or another ship. In my case, if the wind picks up and I need to furl the main, I have to wake Bob up. That's one of the reasons we do not go offshore for long passages. In your case, you might sleep in the cockpit next to your son. Actually, this is true even for experience, completely capable crew. If you need help or are unsure of something, wake up the skipper. I've yet to protest being awakened or had anyone protest if I woke them. |
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Like most 14 yr olds, his judgement is poor as he tends to be a
daredevil. His sailing skill are not as good as I would like. He tends to fall asleep a little too easily too. I am up against a time crunch as in the next few weeks it simply gets too hot with no wind for this to be a good trip. My wife would also freak about him sailing while I was asleep. |
Rosalie B. wrote:
"JG" wrote: "Frank" wrote in message groups.com... Why do you feel that your 14-year-old is unqualified? Maybe we have different definitions of "qualified to stand watch" but I'd rely on my 12-year-old daughter under these circumstances. Maybe this is the universe giving him an opportunity to show you he's more responsible than you think? I know I tend to underestimate my kids 'cause I think of them as having been newborns about 5 minutes ago. They're often capable of so much more than I give them credit for. There are two parts to whether someone is qualified to stand watch a) Are they physically capable of sailing the boat - i.e. do they know how to sail? b) Do they have the judgment and experience to do so? It is easy enough to give a 14 year old the knowledge to sail the boat. I can sail our boat by myself so I can take a watch for Bob. There are some things I can't do very well - I'm not strong enough to manage the main. But I can tack and trim the sails and steer a course A person taking a watch should know what the course is, and whether boats that are seen are on a collision course and what to do if they are. If you are sailing with just the 2 of you, the second issue can be addressed by telling him to wake you if he has a question about the course or the weather or another ship. In my case, if the wind picks up and I need to furl the main, I have to wake Bob up. That's one of the reasons we do not go offshore for long passages. In your case, you might sleep in the cockpit next to your son. He should know how to operate the VHF and what to do in a man overboard situation. This could save your life. |
cammon.. when I first got my 25-footer I sailed her from LA to San Diego,
110 miles, in 9-12 foot swells and wind whipping from 0 to 25 mph and back to 0 in an instant, at night, with lightning cracking above my head and rain pouring down so hard I had to sit in the cabin with my compass holding the boat on course with a rope tied to the tiller, and there was nobody but myself on the boat. And that was the first time I'd ever sailed in my entire life. I didn't even know how to hoist a mainsail until I set out that day. Just do it yaself and bring lots of caffeine tablets. "Larry W4CSC" wrote in message ... wrote in oups.com: my 14 yr old son In spite of the really stupid answers I just read to your post......let me ask you a question to think about. You just fell overboard out there in the Gulf. You're fine bobbing around there in your fancy, self-inflating Sospenders. Question: Can he turn the boat around, by himself, and come back and get you in 8' seas? Whoever you take with you, just ask the same question about the lot of them, as a group. Test it out on a daysail, sometime. Just let go of the helm and throw a PFD overboard. Go sit down and say, "I just fell overboard. What are you going to do?" It's a good idea to have up the old sails you don't really care about for the test...(c; Sometimes thinking about the answer can be really scary! I hope you'll seriously consider the answer. Everyone should test it with their "crew". |
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Having lost objects overboard in waves, I know how easy it is to really
lose track of them, really scary. SO, we wear harnesses and tie them to eyes in the cockpit. Still, if I fell overboard even wearing the harness, he would have a very difficult time of it. I love my wife but have learned I cannot sail with her. It is worse than being single handed. Imagine being single handed while constantly tending apparent disasters and being subjected to constant jabbering. When I sail with her, I feel so stressed out I cannot handle it. |
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We all are. g
-- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "JR Gilbreath" wrote in message .. . wrote: Having lost objects overboard in waves, I know how easy it is to really lose track of them, really scary. SO, we wear harnesses and tie them to eyes in the cockpit. Still, if I fell overboard even wearing the harness, he would have a very difficult time of it. I love my wife but have learned I cannot sail with her. It is worse than being single handed. Imagine being single handed while constantly tending apparent disasters and being subjected to constant jabbering. When I sail with her, I feel so stressed out I cannot handle it. MY GOD! We are married to the same woman! |
JR, that'd 'splain a lot.
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John Cairns:
Provisioning? Well, I got sardines and fer variety I got pop tarts and sardines in mustard sauce. Some real cheapo wine, whatever was cheap in Cedar key last year |
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Red Cloud® wrote:
On Fri, 13 May 2005 18:56:43 -0700, "JG" wrote: We all are. g It's obvious that isn't true. rusty redcloud How do you know? Mine is gone a lot. JR |
I never liked them 'flatable thangs, made mine outa marine ply so they
fit together INSIDE each other 'n fit on the foredeck. Rows well too, I b'leve in spartan sailin, none o that fancy stuff although I do love my new(er) diesel. It beats the hell outa camping in a tent which iz what Id be doin if I didnt sail. |
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Last summer I had the odd experience of having a crew member "jump ship"
after sleeping on the mooring preparatory to an early morning start. He just said, "I have to go" leaving myself and my 12 year old daughter on board. I had a "serious" talk with her, along the line of "If we go, you have to really help work the boat, not just be a passenger" I told her we could change our plans, keep closer to home, etc., etc. If we went she had to do *exactly* as I said, ask why later Up till now I have let her participate as she wishes, which varies from day to day. As we went down river and different situations came up, I illustrated some of my criteria, such as, "If I am resting and you see a boat get this close, wake me ASAP", "if the autopilot does this, do that, or call me, etc. etc." I would not have traded the ensuing trip for anything, she really reached down inside and found what I hope is her responsible future self, and brought her out for the next three days. You are making a bigger passage than we did, but I would still urge you to give yourself and your son the chance to stretch the limits a bit, if you are reasonably sure you can mostly carry the load yourself if need be. You will probably be pleasantly surprised, I know I was. Worth every stressfull minute on my part. Jonathan wrote: After my aborted cruise, I want to bring my boat back from Sarasota to Shell Point in N. Florida (Just south of Tallahassee) for hurricane season. It is 185 miles straight across the northern Gulf of Mexico and I estimate this is about 36-48 hours sail. My only crewmember currently is my 14 yr old son who isnt really qualified to do a watch. I do not want to do the several days coast hopping route as I have done that too many times and just want to get her home (a 28' S2). So, I am wondering if I should venture to do it with just my son or if I really need another crew member. Strange but I no longer know many qualified sailors, most I know are beginners who would just get in their own way. "Ragtime" is a 1981 8.5 M S2 with new standing rigging, running rigging, sails etc, Epirb, etc so is probably well equipped. What do Y'all think? |
We all are. g
HEY!! I'm not. I'm married to one of those taciturn type men who wants me to be in the cockpit but not talk. ----- JR Gilbreath wrote: wrote: Having lost objects overboard in waves, I know how easy it is to really lose track of them, really scary. SO, we wear harnesses and tie them to eyes in the cockpit. Still, if I fell overboard even wearing the harness, he would have a very difficult time of it. So practice this. It is one of the skills one should know anyway. I love my wife but have learned I cannot sail with her. It is worse than being single handed. Imagine being single handed while constantly tending apparent disasters and being subjected to constant jabbering. When I sail with her, I feel so stressed out I cannot handle it. MY GOD! We are married to the same woman! I suspect that part of this is lack of knowledge and a feeling of being out of control. IMHO it would help your wives to take a sailing course without you. That's what I did on the recommendation of my sister. Not one of those women's courses, although I guess those can be good too. Not that I don't think my husband would be a bad instructor, but it was reassuring that he was telling me the same thing as an unrelated other person was telling me. Just be sure that whatever course it is makes each student perform all the maneuvers, and not get out of it by playing helpless or scared or whatever. grandma Rosalie |
"Falky foo" wrote in
: cammon.. when I first got my 25-footer I sailed her from LA to San Diego, 110 miles, in 9-12 foot swells and wind whipping from 0 to 25 mph and back to 0 in an instant, at night, with lightning cracking above my head and rain pouring down so hard I had to sit in the cabin with my compass holding the boat on course with a rope tied to the tiller, and there was nobody but myself on the boat. And that was the first time I'd ever sailed in my entire life. I didn't even know how to hoist a mainsail until I set out that day. Just do it yaself and bring lots of caffeine tablets. See? Real stupid answers......like I said. |
Red Cloud,
Well at least you know that if YOU go pear shaped she'll still be around. :-) Paul Red Cloud® wrote: On Fri, 13 May 2005 23:13:40 -0400, JR Gilbreath wrote: Red Cloud® wrote: On Fri, 13 May 2005 18:56:43 -0700, "JG" wrote: We all are. g It's obvious that isn't true. rusty redcloud How do you know? Mine is gone a lot. JR My wife loves to sail, and is a good sport even when things go pear shaped. She believes that the only difference between an ordeal and an adventure is attitude. Come to think of it, that's probably how she is able to tolerate ME! rusty redcloud |
On Sat, 14 May 2005 14:00:08 GMT, Rosalie B. wrote:
We all are. g HEY!! I'm not. I'm married to one of those taciturn type men who wants me to be in the cockpit but not talk. ----- JR Gilbreath wrote: wrote: Having lost objects overboard in waves, I know how easy it is to really lose track of them, really scary. SO, we wear harnesses and tie them to eyes in the cockpit. Still, if I fell overboard even wearing the harness, he would have a very difficult time of it. So practice this. It is one of the skills one should know anyway. I love my wife but have learned I cannot sail with her. It is worse than being single handed. Imagine being single handed while constantly tending apparent disasters and being subjected to constant jabbering. When I sail with her, I feel so stressed out I cannot handle it. MY GOD! We are married to the same woman! I suspect that part of this is lack of knowledge and a feeling of being out of control. IMHO it would help your wives to take a sailing course without you. That's what I did on the recommendation of my sister. Not one of those women's courses, although I guess those can be good too. Not that I don't think my husband would be a bad instructor, but it was reassuring that he was telling me the same thing as an unrelated other person was telling me. Just be sure that whatever course it is makes each student perform all the maneuvers, and not get out of it by playing helpless or scared or whatever. grandma Rosalie I agree Rosalie...how the data is presented, and who presents it can make all the difference in the world. I was with a sailing class whose crew consisted, in part, of a younger woman and her older husband. The woman had never been even close to the water before, and the first time the boat heeled, she nearly came unglued. Her husband would roll his eyes and make snide/irritable remarks every time she make a mistake however small, even though he knew squat about boats too.. The second morning the instructor left me on the helm, plus a 14 year old young man to handle the sheets, and the woman on deck, while he took the other two students (including the husband) below to play with the radar and GPS. I put the woman on the wheel, stood close behind her, and talked softly almost in her ear. I explained what we were going to do, what the boat would feel like, etc, and led her through several tacks with a very quiet running commentary. If it went pear shaped, I'd explain what happened and why it did, with no hint of disapproval...then we'd try it again. After awhile she relaxed and got a feel for the boat. By the end of the week, she was doing MOB and other maneuvers, including docking, with a good degree of competence considering her experience level. All it took was quiet encouragement to get her started. The husband? He never did catch on to sailing (LOL...and I didn't expect a Christmas card from him) ....she was by far the better sailor than he at the end of the week. The instructor later confessed he knew early on that unless he separated the man and his wife, she would have an absolutly miserable week, and learn zip. My two cents worth. Norm B |
no you are!!!
See? Real stupid answers......like I said. |
check out Find a Crew=99 - www.findacrew.net
register your boat and you will have great crew in a very short time... Cheers |
No we aren't ;-) When the going gets rough, she pitches in without
complaint (as long as I don't tell her to do two things at the same time). Afterwards, on the other hand... In article , "JG" wrote: We all are. g -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "JR Gilbreath" wrote in message .. . wrote: Having lost objects overboard in waves, I know how easy it is to really lose track of them, really scary. SO, we wear harnesses and tie them to eyes in the cockpit. Still, if I fell overboard even wearing the harness, he would have a very difficult time of it. I love my wife but have learned I cannot sail with her. It is worse than being single handed. Imagine being single handed while constantly tending apparent disasters and being subjected to constant jabbering. When I sail with her, I feel so stressed out I cannot handle it. MY GOD! We are married to the same woman! -- Jere Lull Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD) Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
In article .com,
wrote: After my aborted cruise, I want to bring my boat back from Sarasota to Shell Point in N. Florida (Just south of Tallahassee) for hurricane season. It is 185 miles straight across the northern Gulf of Mexico and I estimate this is about 36-48 hours sail. My only crewmember currently is my 14 yr old son who isnt really qualified to do a watch. I do not want to do the several days coast hopping route as I have done that too many times and just want to get her home (a 28' S2). So, I am wondering if I should venture to do it with just my son or if I really need another crew member. Strange but I no longer know many qualified sailors, most I know are beginners who would just get in their own way. "Ragtime" is a 1981 8.5 M S2 with new standing rigging, running rigging, sails etc, Epirb, etc so is probably well equipped. What do Y'all think? I'm a little nervous about you (or anyone) pushing to get somewhere on a time table, a recipe for disaster. That said, we pushed Xan about 175 NM in 3 days, anchoring each night. In the next 7, including a couple of lay-days for weather, we went another 250. The first days, we started hauling anchor at first glimmer of light, well before dawn, and stopped just before sunset, giving us 15+ hours per day. Most of the time, we motored to just get through areas we'd already cruised, but somtimes the wind was helpful. Because good anchorages were often a couple of hour detour, we often took less than ideal ones, just to save time. In other words, it is possible to move quickly and sleep in a safe place. But it requires an autopilot or the crew get very very tired. -- Jere Lull Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD) Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
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In article ,
Larry W4CSC wrote: Jere Lull wrote in news:jerelull- : crew get very very tired There is the real danger. When I'm exhausted, I'm near useless and can't focus well, even on simple tasks. The autopilot is useless when the going gets especially rough, when you need it the worst. I've never found one that can cope with heavy seas at odd angles in a cruising sailboat pitching and yawing wildly in the swells. We have a tiller and have adjusted the stroke for speed, which may change the mix somewhat, but I've been quite impressed by our AutoHelm's ability to keep us on a reasonable track in some pretty unquiet conditions. Xan has little directional stability, which makes it tougher. Otto never likes broad reaches, but close through beam reaches are a piece of cake if the sails are set properly. In a pinch, the boat can be set to luff slightly with shortened sail when the seas are up. Now, if sustained winds are high, we're in port most times, but we've done days in 20-25 with gusts towards 35 -- when they were on the beam. (we start reefing at 12.) The autopilot did a better job of steering in those conditions than I did. Exhausted crew is just a disaster waiting to happen, and being in a hurry to get there just compounds the problems and risk-taking. Obviously, I'm in full agreement. Been there, done that, am very glad our boat is tough. -- Jere Lull Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD) Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
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