A marina with no water
 

Seeing the paucity of marina space in South FL and the extreme cost
makes me wonder what will happen as prices for slips continue to rise.
Most of you do not seem to consider $300/month for a slip to be extreme
but I consider it to be absurd. Most boats I see in marinas seem to
leave their slips no more than once a month. For power boats, there is
always storage available on land but this is rarely done with sailboats
but it might make sense. Consider that it no longer makse economic
sense to operate a marina on the water as the property is simply to
valuable to be used that way. Even here in N. FL. we see old marinas
being bought and condos being built on the land eliminating marina
space. Property values drop exponentially with distance from the water
with that only a block from the water often being a tenth the cost of
waterfront.
My suggestion probably reflects my lack of experience with marinas as I
have normally kept my boat at a private dock and rarely deal with
marinas. However, why not buy cheaper property near the water
retaining just enough to drive a forklift to the water and store the
sailboats out of the water. Of course the cost of putting in and
taking out would have to be small but perhaps this could be offset by
the safety of having the sailboats on higher land during hurricanes.
I'd anticipate that boats would be put in or taken out "on demand" and
that there may be times of high useage where there could be a backlog
but perhaps there could be a temporary mooring buoy for several waiting
boats.
I wonder what the cost of slips would have to be before such a thing
became common?

In article . com,
wrote:

Seeing the paucity of marina space in South FL and the extreme cost
makes me wonder what will happen as prices for slips continue to rise.
Most of you do not seem to consider $300/month for a slip to be extreme
but I consider it to be absurd. Most boats I see in marinas seem to
leave their slips no more than once a month. For power boats, there is
always storage available on land but this is rarely done with sailboats
but it might make sense. Consider that it no longer makse economic
sense to operate a marina on the water as the property is simply to
valuable to be used that way. Even here in N. FL. we see old marinas
being bought and condos being built on the land eliminating marina
space. Property values drop exponentially with distance from the water
with that only a block from the water often being a tenth the cost of
waterfront.
My suggestion probably reflects my lack of experience with marinas as I
have normally kept my boat at a private dock and rarely deal with
marinas. However, why not buy cheaper property near the water
retaining just enough to drive a forklift to the water and store the
sailboats out of the water. Of course the cost of putting in and
taking out would have to be small but perhaps this could be offset by
the safety of having the sailboats on higher land during hurricanes.
I'd anticipate that boats would be put in or taken out "on demand" and
that there may be times of high useage where there could be a backlog
but perhaps there could be a temporary mooring buoy for several waiting
boats.
I wonder what the cost of slips would have to be before such a thing
became common?


For most boats larger than ours, I believe the actual break-even point
has been reached in most areas, but "they" want their boat(s) instantly
available so would never agree to a "boatel" agreement.

We average somewhat more than 60 days out during our 180 day season, so
would not consider such a proposal, but some of our dockmates are far
less active. They rail about a $150 drop-in charge, but don't think
anything about a $3k slip fee. The ones that get out less than 10
weekends a year would benefit from a boatel agreement, but the idea
hasn't taken off around here.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

wrote in message
ups.com...
Seeing the paucity of marina space in South FL and the extreme cost
makes me wonder what will happen as prices for slips continue to rise.
Most of you do not seem to consider $300/month for a slip to be extreme
but I consider it to be absurd. Most boats I see in marinas seem to
leave their slips no more than once a month. For power boats, there is
always storage available on land but this is rarely done with sailboats
but it might make sense. Consider that it no longer makse economic
sense to operate a marina on the water as the property is simply to
valuable to be used that way. Even here in N. FL. we see old marinas
being bought and condos being built on the land eliminating marina
space. Property values drop exponentially with distance from the water
with that only a block from the water often being a tenth the cost of
waterfront.

The problem is that the environmental lobby won't allow any new
docks/marinas. They have such idiotic regulations as to make a mockery of
government. For instance, in turbid waters they have restrictions on docks
because the dock shades the water and seagrass can't grow. Turbid means
dark water, it occludes the light and seagrass can't grow anyway!!

Environmentalists like the very left in politics assumes that people are the
problem and do anything they can to eliminate them from the water. No new
docks, marinas...idle speed in almost all waterways, discurage development
in all areas. This raises the cost of existing waterfront property.

Jeff Rigby wrote:
The problem is that the environmental lobby won't allow any new
docks/marinas.
yeah man, those fscking fscktards!

They have such idiotic regulations as to make a mockery of
government. For instance, in turbid waters they have restrictions on docks
because the dock shades the water and seagrass can't grow. Turbid means
dark water, it occludes the light and seagrass can't grow anyway!!

like duh eh!?

Environmentalists like the very left in politics assumes that people are the
problem and do anything they can to eliminate them from the water.

yeah those fscking manatee huggers, let's kill 'em all!!
No new
docks, marinas...idle speed in almost all waterways, discurage development
in all areas. This raises the cost of existing waterfront property.

yeah like that's so bogus man eh...like I should be able to do whatever
the fsck I want, whenever the fsck I want, cos like I'm me and fsck
everyone else

*plonk*

wrote in
ups.com:

Seeing the paucity of marina space in South FL and the extreme cost
makes me wonder what will happen as prices for slips continue to rise.


One of the best marinas in Charleston has gone "condo"....not condo in the
sense of tearing up the marina and replacing it with apartment-
condos, that's next door...no, the "condo" here is a LOCKER for $120,000!
Now THAT's stupid! They can't sell you a dockspace they don't own. The
Corp of Engineers always gets upset when some slick developer sells the
public's waterways. So, they sell you this tiny locker in the main
building with the PROMISE that you'll be able to use "some" dock space for
your boat....where is not promised. The fun part comes with the "regime
fees". There's an "owner's association", which, of course, is SUBORDINATE
to the developer and at his whim. Inside the condo docs is a little clause
that says if we run out of money from the regime fees, we'll just come
assess you for more moolah at any time and there's nothing you can do about
it. Regime fees have dropped a lot on the webpage since they started
it..(c; What a deal!

Take a look:
http://theharborageatashleymarina.com/
Most all of the old gang simply moved out....to the City Marina.

That reminds me of an incident in Hilton Head a few years back. I was
installing a system for a real estate company which shall remain un-named.
We were proofing the system by printing out various reports and auditing
them. There was a list of one development on the marsh side with prices in
the $650K-$850K range that suddenly dropped to the $175K to $200K range. A
red flag to me so I asked " Are these houses and those vacant lots?" The
answer "No. These are vacant lots and those are boat slips."

That was 10 years ago so $120K for a dock box doesn't sound all that
unreasonable to me. :-)

Actually that is becoming quite a problem lately in the time share business
and to some degree in the condo-marina business. If you don't have clear
title to some interest in real property the deal is worth only the assets
of the company that sold it to you which is usually zero.


Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message
...
wrote in
ups.com:

Seeing the paucity of marina space in South FL and the extreme cost
makes me wonder what will happen as prices for slips continue to rise.


One of the best marinas in Charleston has gone "condo"....not condo in the
sense of tearing up the marina and replacing it with apartment-
condos, that's next door...no, the "condo" here is a LOCKER for $120,000!
Now THAT's stupid! They can't sell you a dockspace they don't own. The
Corp of Engineers always gets upset when some slick developer sells the
public's waterways. So, they sell you this tiny locker in the main
building with the PROMISE that you'll be able to use "some" dock space for
your boat....where is not promised. The fun part comes with the "regime
fees". There's an "owner's association", which, of course, is SUBORDINATE
to the developer and at his whim. Inside the condo docs is a little
clause
that says if we run out of money from the regime fees, we'll just come
assess you for more moolah at any time and there's nothing you can do
about
it. Regime fees have dropped a lot on the webpage since they started
it..(c; What a deal!

Take a look:
http://theharborageatashleymarina.com/
Most all of the old gang simply moved out....to the City Marina.

"Glenn Ashmore" wrote in
news:sfffe.2668$sy6.1304@lakeread04:

Actually that is becoming quite a problem lately in the time share
business and to some degree in the condo-marina business. If you
don't have clear title to some interest in real property the deal is
worth only the assets of the company that sold it to you which is
usually zero.



The "company" is retaining all title to the real property, the marina
building, land, parking lot that can only park 20% of the boaters' cars.
Oh, no, you get nothing of real value for $120K, just a locker and a
promise.

What I find incredible is that people-of-money actually buy into this
scheme that could simply vanish overnight. I always pictured the rich as
much smarter and more money savvy than this. It must not be true.

Notice that the "company" is a South Carolina LLC...limited liability...
After the money runs out from the initial loans, and the bank repos the
real property used as collateral, how are the locker owners going to get to
the dock through the bank's new waterfront condo property?

wrote in message
ups.com...
Seeing the paucity of marina space in South FL and the extreme cost
makes me wonder what will happen as prices for slips continue to rise.
Most of you do not seem to consider $300/month for a slip to be extreme
but I consider it to be absurd. Most boats I see in marinas seem to
leave their slips no more than once a month. For power boats, there is
always storage available on land but this is rarely done with sailboats
but it might make sense. Consider that it no longer makse economic
sense to operate a marina on the water as the property is simply to
valuable to be used that way. Even here in N. FL. we see old marinas
being bought and condos being built on the land eliminating marina
space. Property values drop exponentially with distance from the water
with that only a block from the water often being a tenth the cost of
waterfront.
My suggestion probably reflects my lack of experience with marinas as I
have normally kept my boat at a private dock and rarely deal with
marinas. However, why not buy cheaper property near the water
retaining just enough to drive a forklift to the water and store the
sailboats out of the water. Of course the cost of putting in and
taking out would have to be small but perhaps this could be offset by
the safety of having the sailboats on higher land during hurricanes.
I'd anticipate that boats would be put in or taken out "on demand" and
that there may be times of high useage where there could be a backlog
but perhaps there could be a temporary mooring buoy for several waiting
boats.
I wonder what the cost of slips would have to be before such a thing
became common?

Such a thing has been around for years. It's called a Boatel. We have dozens
of them around here. Some are even inside. They stack boat up to 5 or 6
high. Launch on demand. I was involved in designing an automated one
several years ago.

$300/mo might seem expensive if you are used to private docks, but that
the rate for the less expensive slip around here (Baltimore/Annapolis).

Doug

Doug Dotson wrote:

snip....
$300/mo might seem expensive if you are used to private docks, but that
the rate for the less expensive slip around here (Baltimore/Annapolis).

Doug



This is why some of us...me included, own a smaller sailboat that can be
launched from a trailer. Since the larger ocean swells tend to bother
me, I mostly do coastal sailing in reasonably protected bays, harbours
etc. Another bonus...it's very easy to explore new waters without
sailing for a day or two just to get there.

"Don White" wrote in message
...
Doug Dotson wrote:

snip....
$300/mo might seem expensive if you are used to private docks, but that
the rate for the less expensive slip around here (Baltimore/Annapolis).

Doug



This is why some of us...me included, own a smaller sailboat that can be
launched from a trailer. Since the larger ocean swells tend to bother
me, I mostly do coastal sailing in reasonably protected bays, harbours
etc. Another bonus...it's very easy to explore new waters without sailing
for a day or two just to get there.

And other of us..me included, own a larger boat so we are not confined to
the shallow end of the kiddie pool :)