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#21
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"Jim Donohue" wrote in
news:kuX0e.244$ZV5.197@fed1read05: Power is over-rated. You have to hear the other station. Does no good to only be heard. Ah, but when BOTH stations have power.....ahhhh.... Biggest linear I ever owned was a homebrew pair of 4-1000A tetrodes with graphite plates on RTTY. Hmm....6000V at 950ma....That's about a kilowatt, ain't it?....Ah fergit... |
#22
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Terry Spragg wrote in news:RtSdnZBYQIYn-
: Beeswax, I say! Wonder why all the world's militarys don't run these amazing Outbacker home-made-lookin' antennas? Hell, I'm amazed Radio Moscow isn't using one! |
#23
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On 2005-03-26 14:36:18 +1100, Larry W4CSC said:
Terry Spragg wrote in news:RtSdnZBYQIYn- : Beeswax, I say! Wonder why all the world's militarys don't run these amazing Outbacker home-made-lookin' antennas? Hell, I'm amazed Radio Moscow isn't using one! Isn't it amazing. If you can't refute based upon actual on air experience then just ridicule it! Larry, I expected better from a licensed amateur. After all we amateurs have been proving things that shouldn't work do for a long time. In the end I guess you will be judged by your utterences. So keep the mouth flapping. -- Regards, John Proctor VK3JP, VKV6789 S/V Chagall |
#24
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John Proctor wrote in
news:2005032617173316807%lost@nowhereorg: Larry, I expected better from a licensed amateur. After all we amateurs have been proving things that shouldn't work do for a long time. In the end I guess you will be judged by your utterences. So keep the mouth flapping. -- Regards, John Proctor VK3JP, VKV6789 S/V Chagall The point is, national pride aside, the Outbacker is still a bunch of hookup wire wrapped around a fiberglass rod with taps imbedded into the shrink tubing that covers the hookup wire. Continuously loaded antennas are very inefficient and produce far less E field than antennas without continuous loading. The shorter ANY antenna is less than 1/4 wavelength, the less and less it radiates.....simple fact..... |
#25
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On 2005-03-27 00:46:39 +1100, Larry W4CSC said:
John Proctor wrote in news:2005032617173316807%lost@nowhereorg: Larry, I expected better from a licensed amateur. After all we amateurs have been proving things that shouldn't work do for a long time. In the end I guess you will be judged by your utterences. So keep the mouth flapping. -- Regards, John Proctor VK3JP, VKV6789 S/V Chagall The point is, national pride aside, the Outbacker is still a bunch of hookup wire wrapped around a fiberglass rod with taps imbedded into the shrink tubing that covers the hookup wire. Continuously loaded antennas are very inefficient and produce far less E field than antennas without continuous loading. The shorter ANY antenna is less than 1/4 wavelength, the less and less it radiates.....simple fact..... Thats true. However the discussion has been about a collection of suboptimal antennas. Too short for lower SSB spectrum use. Backstays, 23' whips and outbacker's are all too short for efficient use on low HF. The original question asked was what is the best approach. Best in this case (marine HF) must absolutely include survivability as a marine SSB HF rig is predominantly a saftey item. A backstay or any other rigging based structure as I pointed out is inherently risky and therefore unacceptable to bodies such as ocean racing organisations. The screwdriver and antennas of similar design are effective in the land mobile service downunder. The number of 4WD vehicles with Codans on and in them proves that but again they are totally unsuited to the marine envirnment. Codan doesn't even try to make a marinised adjustable antenna that I know of. BTW if you want to see inefficient antennas look to the Hams that do 160M mobile. There is a hiding to nowhere as far as efficiency is concerned but they are a hardy band of operators! -- Regards, John Proctor VK3JP, VKV6789 S/V Chagall |
#26
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John -
While the listed antenna are all sub-optimal on the lower bands the difference in performance is marked if they are loaded reasonably well. I doubt that the requirements of off shore racers should in any way influence what cruiser do. Cruisers simply don't lose rigs. That is a more due to the propensity of the racer to go all out even to the risk of the rig. Every rational cruiser avoids stressing his rig...it just makes life to difficult. Note that jury rigged antennas or carrying some spare gizmo still provide lots of opportunity for a cruiser to get out when needed even after an unexpected disaster. . It has been my experience that emergency use of the SSB is reasonably common but that the cause is generally not a severely damaged boat. Mostly its stuff like getting something to work or dealing with a medical problem. Even on occassion have seen starters rebuilt at sea with expert advice from a ham net. Jim Donohue KO6MH amateur extra "John Proctor" wrote in message news:2005032704261916807%lost@nowhereorg... On 2005-03-27 00:46:39 +1100, Larry W4CSC said: John Proctor wrote in news:2005032617173316807%lost@nowhereorg: Larry, I expected better from a licensed amateur. After all we amateurs have been proving things that shouldn't work do for a long time. In the end I guess you will be judged by your utterences. So keep the mouth flapping. -- Regards, John Proctor VK3JP, VKV6789 S/V Chagall The point is, national pride aside, the Outbacker is still a bunch of hookup wire wrapped around a fiberglass rod with taps imbedded into the shrink tubing that covers the hookup wire. Continuously loaded antennas are very inefficient and produce far less E field than antennas without continuous loading. The shorter ANY antenna is less than 1/4 wavelength, the less and less it radiates.....simple fact..... Thats true. However the discussion has been about a collection of suboptimal antennas. Too short for lower SSB spectrum use. Backstays, 23' whips and outbacker's are all too short for efficient use on low HF. The original question asked was what is the best approach. Best in this case (marine HF) must absolutely include survivability as a marine SSB HF rig is predominantly a saftey item. A backstay or any other rigging based structure as I pointed out is inherently risky and therefore unacceptable to bodies such as ocean racing organisations. The screwdriver and antennas of similar design are effective in the land mobile service downunder. The number of 4WD vehicles with Codans on and in them proves that but again they are totally unsuited to the marine envirnment. Codan doesn't even try to make a marinised adjustable antenna that I know of. BTW if you want to see inefficient antennas look to the Hams that do 160M mobile. There is a hiding to nowhere as far as efficiency is concerned but they are a hardy band of operators! -- Regards, John Proctor VK3JP, VKV6789 S/V Chagall |
#27
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On 2005-03-27 07:06:10 +1000, "Jim Donohue" said:
John - While the listed antenna are all sub-optimal on the lower bands the difference in performance is marked if they are loaded reasonably well. I doubt that the requirements of off shore racers should in any way influence what cruiser do. Cruisers simply don't lose rigs. That is a more due to the propensity of the racer to go all out even to the risk of the rig. Every rational cruiser avoids stressing his rig...it just makes life to difficult. Note that jury rigged antennas or carrying some spare gizmo still provide lots of opportunity for a cruiser to get out when needed even after an unexpected disaster. . It has been my experience that emergency use of the SSB is reasonably common but that the cause is generally not a severely damaged boat. Mostly its stuff like getting something to work or dealing with a medical problem. Even on occassion have seen starters rebuilt at sea with expert advice from a ham net. Jim Donohue KO6MH amateur extra "John Proctor" wrote in message news:2005032704261916807%lost@nowhereorg... On 2005-03-27 00:46:39 +1100, Larry W4CSC said: SNIP Jim, I think it is a matter of degree. One should be prepared for the worst. A backup system must be available for reliable first time use when the chips are down. Yes 90% of the time you will have no problem using a backstay. The point I was trying to make is that there are alternatives which can give good (notice I didn't say great!) service which address other reliability issues. On that note I think this topic has been done to death and there is obviously a divergence of opinion. I know what I will do when I put HF in my 37' Jeanneau SO. -- Regards, John Proctor VK3JP, VKV6789 S/V Chagall |
#28
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John Proctor wrote in
news:2005032710245316807%lost@nowhereorg: Jim, I think it is a matter of degree. One should be prepared for the worst. A backup system must be available for reliable first time use when the chips are down. Yes 90% of the time you will have no problem using a backstay. The point I was trying to make is that there are alternatives which can give good (notice I didn't say great!) service which address other reliability issues. Good idea. Lionheart is equipped with a 406 Mhz EPIRB with its own GPS receiver built right inside..... If the mast comes down or other catastrophy happens, just push that little button..... |
#29
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"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message ... John Proctor wrote in news:2005032710245316807%lost@nowhereorg: Jim, I think it is a matter of degree. One should be prepared for the worst. A backup system must be available for reliable first time use when the chips are down. Yes 90% of the time you will have no problem using a backstay. The point I was trying to make is that there are alternatives which can give good (notice I didn't say great!) service which address other reliability issues. Good idea. Lionheart is equipped with a 406 Mhz EPIRB with its own GPS receiver built right inside..... If the mast comes down or other catastrophy happens, just push that little button..... I'm not sure a dismasting rises to the level of a MAYDAY. I'd like to be able to be able to seek help and advise via SSB before resorting to declaring an emergency. DOug |
#30
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In article ,
"Doug Dotson" dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote: "Larry W4CSC" wrote in message ... John Proctor wrote in news:2005032710245316807%lost@nowhereorg: Jim, I think it is a matter of degree. One should be prepared for the worst. A backup system must be available for reliable first time use when the chips are down. Yes 90% of the time you will have no problem using a backstay. The point I was trying to make is that there are alternatives which can give good (notice I didn't say great!) service which address other reliability issues. Good idea. Lionheart is equipped with a 406 Mhz EPIRB with its own GPS receiver built right inside..... If the mast comes down or other catastrophy happens, just push that little button..... I'm not sure a dismasting rises to the level of a MAYDAY. I'd like to be able to be able to seek help and advise via SSB before resorting to declaring an emergency. DOug that is why you have a coiled up dipole antenna in the emergency kit, under the bunk, that can be strung up with what is left of the mast, or broomstick, as the case may be.............. Bruce in alaska -- add a 2 before @ |
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