In article ,
says...

I think that it will be very interesting to see what the Marine Safety
Officer will conclude from the investigation of this grounding. I
suspect that the Master is going to have to hire a pile of GOOD Sea
Lawyers, just to keep his license from being suspended, or revoked.
Looks to me like a case of very Poor Seamanship, and navigation.
For a Small Passenger Ship to get itself in such a situation, shows
how much there is a need for better testing for a Masters License.

You are prejudging a situation where you were not present and have no way of
knowinbg all the factors at the time.

"Maxprop" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Gogarty" wrote in message


In article .com,
says...


There are only three types of sailors in the world, those who have been
aground, those who dont sail very often and those who lie

I would reduce that to two: those who have been aground and those who
lie.

Agreed. The ones who sail infrequently typically are the ones who run
aground.

Max

Or frequently sail in fairly shallow water.

John Cairns

Me wrote:



I think that it will be very interesting to see what the Marine Safety
Officer will conclude from the investigation of this grounding. I
suspect that the Master is going to have to hire a pile of GOOD Sea
Lawyers, just to keep his license from being suspended, or revoked.
Looks to me like a case of very Poor Seamanship, and navigation.
For a Small Passenger Ship to get itself in such a situation, shows
how much there is a need for better testing for a Masters License.


Me

Until all the facts are in, we'll have to speculate. My only sense is
that he was too far right in his approach. If so, what caused this
and/or why, will determine much of what happens next.

As for license exams......
An exam is only an indication of how well someone takes exams and knows
basic information. From there, it becomes the onus of the
owners/managers of the particular vessel, to determine the suitability
of an individual to perform under that license.
If you look at those individuals giving the test for US upper licenses,
I doubt you'd find one who is themselves, qualified to hold that license.

otn

My experience is that if you don't get out there and sail, you don't run
aground.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"John Cairns" wrote in message
m...

"Maxprop" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Gogarty" wrote in message


In article .com,
says...


There are only three types of sailors in the world, those who have been
aground, those who dont sail very often and those who lie

I would reduce that to two: those who have been aground and those who
lie.

Agreed. The ones who sail infrequently typically are the ones who run
aground.

Max

Or frequently sail in fairly shallow water.

John Cairns

On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 18:51:21 -0800, "JG" wrote
this crap:

My experience is that if you don't get out there and sail, you don't run
aground.


That is such a dickless comment. No guts, no glory, Jon-boy.





This post is 100% free of steroids

In article ,
says...



"Maxprop" wrote in message
link.net...

"Gogarty" wrote in message


In article .com,
says...


There are only three types of sailors in the world, those who have been
aground, those who dont sail very often and those who lie

I would reduce that to two: those who have been aground and those who
lie.

Agreed. The ones who sail infrequently typically are the ones who run
aground.

Max

Or frequently sail in fairly shallow water.

In which case you get a boat with a swing keel. When you hit something, just
crank 'er up. Been there, done that and many valuable lessons cheaply
learned.

In article et,
says...



Until all the facts are in, we'll have to speculate. My only sense is
that he was too far right in his approach. If so, what caused this
and/or why, will determine much of what happens next.

Nearly did something similar once approaching Shinnecock Inlet on Long
Island. We were coming from the west along the shore and aimed for the buoy
just off the jetty when I noticed an awful lot of white water where there
should not have been any. Changed direction to the sea buoy and then came
straight in to the inlet from there. Lots of shoaling on either side of the
inlet well out past the jetties.

"Gogarty" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...



"Maxprop" wrote in message
hlink.net...

"Gogarty" wrote in message


In article .com,
says...


There are only three types of sailors in the world, those who have been
aground, those who dont sail very often and those who lie

I would reduce that to two: those who have been aground and those who
lie.

Agreed. The ones who sail infrequently typically are the ones who run
aground.

Max

Or frequently sail in fairly shallow water.

In which case you get a boat with a swing keel. When you hit something,
just
crank 'er up. Been there, done that and many valuable lessons cheaply
learned.


Or a wing keel :)

http://community.webshots.com/photo/...01593556HoPljK

John Cairns

In article ,
Gogarty wrote:

In article ,
says...

I think that it will be very interesting to see what the Marine Safety
Officer will conclude from the investigation of this grounding. I
suspect that the Master is going to have to hire a pile of GOOD Sea
Lawyers, just to keep his license from being suspended, or revoked.
Looks to me like a case of very Poor Seamanship, and navigation.
For a Small Passenger Ship to get itself in such a situation, shows
how much there is a need for better testing for a Masters License.

You are prejudging a situation where you were not present and have no way of
knowinbg all the factors at the time.


I am not judging anything at all. I am waiting for the MSO to report
what he finds during his investigation. I have long experience in
documenting USCG Inquiry Boards, and outcomes. Most Masters that end
up at Inquiry, get suspended, or revoked. Especially if they had
Passengers aboard, as USCG Inquiries tend to come down harshly when
Passengers are put at risk.


Me

In article ,
says...


I am not judging anything at all. I am waiting for the MSO to report
what he finds during his investigation. I have long experience in
documenting USCG Inquiry Boards, and outcomes. Most Masters that end
up at Inquiry, get suspended, or revoked. Especially if they had
Passengers aboard, as USCG Inquiries tend to come down harshly when
Passengers are put at risk.

Not arguing with you about that at all. I agree. I also agree the poor skipper
is no doubt in serious trouble. But we don't know yet.

I keep thinking about Capt. Brown of the USS Missouri who went on the mud
approaching Newport Roads. He wasn't on watch. End of career. Or the skippewr
of that submaraine that hit the undersea mountain recently. End of career. And
he was just a victim of bad luck. But then, hindsight is marvelous, especially
among people who were not there.