Hi Guys & Gals,


I'm sure you've all had experience buying boats. I'm seeking advice on
how to understand used boat prices.


The 2005 Guide to Powerboats has a listing of used boat prices showing
Low Retail and Average Retail prices.


The online NADA Used Boat Prices shows retail prices which you can
customize by dialing in all the features and options on a given boat.


Here is where the problem comes in:


The boats for sale at brokers - in the brand and model I am looking to
purchase - are listed at around DOUBLE their official pricing on the
price rating lists.


=A4 Is this due to a Poker style "bluff" of the sellers trying to push
people to make higher offers?


=A4 Is it due to the brokers trying to swindle unexpected first time
buyers who don't know the market?


=A4 Are the Price Guides totally off base when it comes to real market
prices?


I've heard that today we are in a "buyer's market". Is this a myth? Or
is it only true for certain boat models/sizes/ages? Is it normal to
find prices on 10-year old boats above their prices BRAND NEW in 1995
?!?


Basically, I'd like to make offers on boats which correspond to the
official pricing on professional lists. Do Brokers have an obligation
to communicate my offers to sellers? Can I write a seller a letter,
explaining my offer, and will it reach the seller? Or will the Broker
just put it in the shredder? Do I need to send it notarized and by
registered mail, just to make sure it reaches the seller?


Or should I hire a BUYER'S BROKER to defend my interest... and possibly

jump into the snake pit?


Your mystified rec.boats.cruising buddy,=20


Rich

Prices are nuts. Most of what you pay for is newness and surface
cosmetic condition. If you can tolerate a little surface wear,
scratches, and age, there are some incredible bargains out there.

We bought this boat for $15,000. The inside looks as good as the
pictures at the end show.

http://home.maine.rr.com/rlma/Boat.htm

I walk into a marine store a few days later and there is a four seat
outboard boat with a price tag two thousand dollars more. I was just
at the Maine Boatbuilder's Show and saw a boat with no berths, no
place to sit down except the top of the engine box (which did have
indoor/outdoor carpet on it), compass, wheel, engine, and hull for two
and a half times as much money. Buy, it's new and shiny. Crazy.

You don't need a buyer's broker but you do need a top notch surveyor
and the willingness to walk away from any boat.

Buy fresh water if you can. Prices are lower in the Great Lakes. I
feel about brokers about the way I feel about sharks but Shawn Taylor
who sold us our boat left nothing to be desired. You might start
the

http://www.yachtworld.com/toledobeachyachtsales/

--

Roger Long

Hi Roger,

You're painfully dead right when you say "Prices are nuts".

I couldn't care less about newness and surface cosmetics. So you are
reassuring me that with some scratches and tears there will be a boat
out there waiting. That sure is one INCREDIBLE bargain you got!

I'll try to find the best possible surveyor whereever I see a boat
worth checking out. The Power Boat Guide shows a listing of surveyors,
maybe that is a good place to start?

I'll try to go for a fresh water boat, or if not feasible at the right
price, at least a fresh water cooled engine. I looked at Shawn Taylor's
listings but he hasn't got the model I'm seeking.

Thanks!

Rich


Hi Dave,

I'll see if I can get a broker to dial me into his internet databases,
who knows if it can make things move on a sale? :-D

Cheers,

Rich

This is the best listing link I have found:

http://www.boats.com/listing/cache/a...clk_srcrvs_nav

Almost nothing I found on the web elsewhere wasn't also there and the
search engine worked better than any of the others.

Be sure to get a surveyor from:

http://www.marinesurvey.org/

http://www.acms-usa.com/

These are the two national organizations. Both have good search
engines. Other than belonging to one of these groups, a "marine
surveyor" is someone who knows the name of a shop that prints business
cards and letterheads.

--

Roger Long



wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi Roger,

You're painfully dead right when you say "Prices are nuts".

I couldn't care less about newness and surface cosmetics. So you are
reassuring me that with some scratches and tears there will be a
boat
out there waiting. That sure is one INCREDIBLE bargain you got!

I'll try to find the best possible surveyor whereever I see a boat
worth checking out. The Power Boat Guide shows a listing of
surveyors,
maybe that is a good place to start?

I'll try to go for a fresh water boat, or if not feasible at the
right
price, at least a fresh water cooled engine. I looked at Shawn
Taylor's
listings but he hasn't got the model I'm seeking.

Thanks!

Rich


Hi Dave,

I'll see if I can get a broker to dial me into his internet
databases,
who knows if it can make things move on a sale? :-D

Cheers,

Rich

Hi Roger,

Thanks for those surveyor links - saves me expensive mistakes. I've
heard horror stories about surveyors recommended by, or influenced by
unscrupulous brokers. Not exactly reassuring when it comes to buying
such a big ticket item.

I guess prices are all over the place because it is a varied market,
with some folks stretching their budget, and others throwing away good
money after bad. Sales must reflect that too, with some folks getting
a raw deal and others making out like bandits selling boats at bloated
prices. I think that the older the boats get, the more informed and
educated the buyers are; this means that actual sales will tend to
better reflect real market value, even if asking prices are in fantasy
land. For more recent boats, it seems that some folks hope to resell
for more than they bought them for, at least for the first few years
of trying to sell them. Maybe given time, and the expenses of keeping
a boat, reason slowly sinks in?

Cheers,

Rich

Just sold a boat for quite a bit after several painful months and
bought a new used one at a good price. Here's the scoop, boats
devalue by average around 5% per year. Think about it, why on earth
would you pay more for a used boat than a new one? No one would, and
no one does.

First, narrow down exactly what you want and why. That will help
immeasurably. People don't mind showing off their boats, but they
don't like "potential buyers" showing up who can't decide between a
racing catamaran and a trawler (not making that one up unfortunately).

Then go to a place like www.yachtworld.com and look at the prices, that
will give you a good idea of the market and get a broker to give you
prices from a place like sold.com and find out what people are actually
spending for their boats.

Sellers assume someone will buy their boat at around 80 percent of the
asking price, regardless really of the asking price. They start with
their ideal world price, realize that people aren't buying and that
boat payments are starting to add up, and get more and more desperate.


Boat sellers want to give themselves room to negotiate down, and you
want to give yourself room to negotiate up.

Last, the boat market tends to follow the real estate market. The
real estate bubble is allowing people to take out ridiculously large
home equity loans on appreciated houses and spend lots for new boats.
When that bubble bursts, prices will fall accordingly in the used
market, and some new boat manufacturers will probably be found sunk.

So there you go, research your boat by seeing the selling price and the
asking price, god forbid you try to get it without a boat surveyor, you
absolutely need one. Call several brokers and let them know you are
looking for a particular model and they may help you find someone with
a good deal, but as a condition for having them keep an eye out for
you, ask for the price lists from their sources for sold boats so you
can have a realistic eye for value and price.

Last, be up front, make sure you have your finances lined up and ready
to go and keep your appointments to see boats. Nothing ****es people
off more then "buyers" taking up their time when they have no ability
to actually buy the boat and finally end up leaving you standing on a
boat launch waiting for them to show up.

Good luck, you are swimming with sharks,

Doug

Hi Roger,

You're painfully dead right when you say "Prices are nuts".

I couldn't care less about newness and surface cosmetics. So you are
reassuring me that with some scratches and tears there will be a boat
out there waiting. That sure is one INCREDIBLE bargain you got!

I'll try to find the best possible surveyor whereever I see a boat
worth checking out. The Power Boat Guide shows a listing of surveyors,
maybe that is a good place to start?

I'll try to go for a fresh water boat, or if not feasible at the right
price, at least a fresh water cooled engine. I looked at Shawn Taylor's
listings but he hasn't got the model I'm seeking.

Thanks!

Rich


Hi Dave,

I'll see if I can get a broker to dial me into his internet databases,
who knows if it can make things move on a sale? :-D

Cheers,

Rich