rhys wrote:
On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 00:20:33 GMT, "Falky foo"
wrote:

I think that sailors use power as little as they can, but as little
as they
can turns out to, unfortunately, be quite a bit of the time.

Exactly. You either have that time, or you don't.

Or you make that time because it is a better way of living.

Damn it, I'm channeling Moitessier again.

R.

Sailing is good for those days when the wind is right and you really
have nowhere to go. However, I have found that when cruising, I have
to engine on over 75% of the time. Think about it. Around here (N.
Florida) we have wind over 5 kts about 60% of the time. A sailboat
cannot sail into +-45 degrees of the wind so that is only 75% she can
sail into. Most of us do not have enough time or patience doing long
tacks back and forth to get where we want to go so .6X.75=.45. So, you
will motor 55% of the time. If you count the amount of time the wind
is very light and the boat only goes about 3 kts under sail alone but
will go over 6 kts under sail and power, that accounts for the other
20%. This does not even count the times you are going down the ICW
because it is actually shorter than going on the outside and you really
cannot sail in the ditch due to its numerous turns and so many
drawbridges sailing is pointless (You really should drop your sails
going under drawbridges). So, in the ICW, I normally use the roller
furling jib only.
All of this argues that a motorsailor is the answer as it can motor and
sorta sail. However, it doesnt sail well enough to really get th
efeeling on those days when the wind is good and you are really going
nowhere. My solution to this problem was to take the old 6.5 hp Yanmar
1GM out of my 28' S2 and replace it with a 13 hp 2GM with 3 bladed prop
for better long term motoring but to keep sailing performance. Even
cruising under continuous power and sail, I burn very little fuel. I
actually considered a 3GM engine but decided it was too heavy and the
2GM was a direct replacement. It might have been better to replace
with a 2GM20 but one was not available.
In conclusion, I think most shorter distance sail cruisers probably
should realize they will motor most of the time and plan for it while
using sail whenever they can.

I didn't own a motor for the first six years I owned my boat - used to have to get a real
head of steam up to coast up the long windward finger to get to my slip! Tough to
single-hand...

I've never actually bought fuel for a powerboat, but it seems to me that a sailboat gets
better knots per gallon than a similar sized stinkpot.

From reading the posts, it appears as if the day sailors
are the ones saying they seldom use their motors. The
cruising sailors have a better grip on cruising realities.

dudley
..

Falky foo wrote:
I "sailed" my boat, when I first got her, from LA Harbor to San Diego
solo.
I was determined to use sail only the whole way, but when I realized
that
sail was powering me at 2-3 mph and my motor was powering me at 5-6
mph, my
mind quickly changed. I just didn't have the time to sit there for
nearly a
week to try to get the boat down here.

Let's see, it's about 75 miles from LA to San Diego, so sailing @ 2.5
knots would have gotten you there in about 30 hours, not nearly a week.
At 5 knots the trip would be 15 hours, so by motoring the whole way
you saved a half a day. Hopefully you'll "have the time" to enjoy
sailing that passage someday.

Sadly, your calculations are off. It's 100 miles straight. Jibing (the
wind was from the NW) makes it more like 120 miles at least, and that's if
you can steer a perfectly straight course. At 2.5 mph that's 48 hours of
sailing. 8 hours of actual sailing a day plus getting into/out of
anchorages/guest slips and eating lunch on the water, that's 6 days. 10
hours of sailing a day plus the above is nearly 5 days. I was the only one
on board and it was storming with 12 foot swells.. I wasn't going to be out
there more than 10 hours a day. With the motor it took 3 full days.

Thanks for your input.

A friend of mine has done several Atlantic crossings. He says that
you can plan on motoring about 2/3s of the way across if you hope
to get across in a reasonable amount of time. Sailing is not as
much of a panacea as some think.

Doug

"dudley" wrote in message
ups.com...
From reading the posts, it appears as if the day sailors
are the ones saying they seldom use their motors. The
cruising sailors have a better grip on cruising realities.

dudley
.

A few years ago, my wife and I spent two years cruising the East Coast from
the Keys to Maine in an Island Packet 37. The IP is a strong, heavy and slow
cruising sailboat. We were on no particular schedule, so we had no
get-there-itis. But we motored a lot- easily 80% of our sea miles were under
power. But when the wind was right, it was glorious. We fondly remember an
overnight passage from Marco Island, Fl to Key West in almost perfect
conditions - 12 kts beam reach, clear night, full moon and dolphins swimming
alongside throughout the night. My wife still thinks that this experience
borders on the mystical/religious.

Today, we daysail and weekend cruise on a J/32-a pretty serious performance
cruiser. I refuse to motor to an overnight destination (Catalina Island
typically as we now live and work in the LA area) because I really like to
sail. So, we wait for the right conditions to sail to Catalina. With the
J/32 we can usually sail in as little as 8 kts true windspeed and enjoy it
and get there in a reasonable time.

So, if you want to sail, get a performance cruiser- a J or Saga or whatever
and load it lightly. But most long term cruisers have heavy, comfortable
boats and load them up. In that case, you probably will be doing a lot of
motoring. But enjoy the sailing when you can.

David

On Carlisle lake here in IL, there are several 20-25 ft sailboats that
go out in the evening when people get off work and want to relax.
sometimes almost no wind, but people will take their boat out with
small outboards or inboard diesel for a smooth cruise.

I know of one guy that has a nice sailboat and it doesn't even have a
mast on it.
he and his family seem to have just as much fun and relaxation as
anybody.

Tim

On 23 Feb 2005 14:56:40 -0800, "dudley"
wrote:

From reading the posts, it appears as if the day sailors
are the ones saying they seldom use their motors. The
cruising sailors have a better grip on cruising realities.

dudley
."
Probably so, but it depends on the boat and general orientation of the
cruiser as well. We don't use the engine anywhere near that much, but
our boat is easier to sail in light air than most pure cruising boats,
and goes much faster to windward.

Also, our habits started long ago as day racers. My wife and I raced
505s for our first 7 seasons together (1965-1972).

The cruisers who motor sail make their own "cruising realities" and
why shouldn't they? If they want to spend more time sailing, they may
need a different boat, or perhaps they should leave a lot of gear
ashore, or spring for new sails.

Our habits entail a sail budget that I hate to think about. It would
be cheaper to have a trawler yacht.



Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC J36 Gjo/a


"Curse thee, thou quadrant. No longer will I guide my earthly way by thee." Capt. Ahab

"Tim" wrote in
oups.com:

I know of one guy that has a nice sailboat and it doesn't even have a
mast on it.
he and his family seem to have just as much fun and relaxation as
anybody.

Tim



I know someone who bought a 40' dismasted sloop really cheap. The yard
tore off all the sailing equipment left and cut down the keel by about
half, increasing their load capacity by a lot! He installed a 4 cylinder
Yanmar in his new "trawler" and off they went in their shallow-draft
trawler. They still have it many years later.....(c;

He always tells everyone diesel fuel and engines are LOTS cheaper than new
sails and rigging!