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Image Stabilized Digital Camera on a boat
Does anyone have practical experience using a consumer grade digital
camera with high zoom and Image Stabilization on a sailboat (taking shots of distant scenery or other boats)? I am considering purchase of a newer camera with 10x or 12x zoom to replace my 3x capable camera. It occurred to me that Image Stabilization might be a good thing at these high zooms. I am considering cameras like the Canon S1 IS, Konica-Minolta Z3/Z5 or Panasonic Lumix series. While I read reviews that I.S. really helps remove a bit of "shakey hand", I am now wondering if the movement on a boat would be way too much for it and it might over-react giving a worse picture than without it. (Of course I could turn the I.S. off in this case but if I can't use it I wouldn't want to pay for it and add that complexity to the camera, as it is one more point of failure.) If anyone has used such a camera on a boat, I would love to hear your comments. Dave |
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"junktin" wrote in message news:TeASd.24583$NN.20453@edtnps89... Does anyone have practical experience using a consumer grade digital camera with high zoom and Image Stabilization on a sailboat (taking shots of distant scenery or other boats)? I am considering purchase of a newer camera with 10x or 12x zoom to replace my 3x capable camera. It occurred to me that Image Stabilization might be a good thing at these high zooms. I am considering cameras like the Canon S1 IS, Konica-Minolta Z3/Z5 or Panasonic Lumix series. While I read reviews that I.S. really helps remove a bit of "shakey hand", I am now wondering if the movement on a boat would be way too much for it and it might over-react giving a worse picture than without it. (Of course I could turn the I.S. off in this case but if I can't use it I wouldn't want to pay for it and add that complexity to the camera, as it is one more point of failure.) If anyone has used such a camera on a boat, I would love to hear your comments. Dave The image stabilization is for dampening out vibration due to shaky hands by using gyroscopic stabilization through the use of acceleration detectors and linear motors in the lens or camera. In my opinion it will not compensate at all for the action of a sailboat if you expect it to be used to track a subject as you pitch and roll. It will compensate for some pounding and your shaky hands. Of course you are putting an expensive camera in jeopardy of being damaged by the water. |
I have a Sony with digital stabalization. Anything over about 5X zoom
really needs a tripod or gimbled/counterbalanced mount. Digital stabalization is not like the mechanical stabalization in some binocs. It helps with hand vibration but does little for major movement. I have a Glidecam 2000 Pro mount (cheap Steadycam) http://www.glidecam.com/ that works well but it takes up a lot of space when working in the cockpit. For a fixed rail mount http://www.horizontrue.com/ works pretty well for keeping a reasonable horizon shooting underway but not very good for scenery shots. Niether will handle a camera over about 6 pounds so a waterproof case is out. -- Glenn Ashmore I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com "junktin" wrote in message news:TeASd.24583$NN.20453@edtnps89... Does anyone have practical experience using a consumer grade digital camera with high zoom and Image Stabilization on a sailboat (taking shots of distant scenery or other boats)? I am considering purchase of a newer camera with 10x or 12x zoom to replace my 3x capable camera. It occurred to me that Image Stabilization might be a good thing at these high zooms. I am considering cameras like the Canon S1 IS, Konica-Minolta Z3/Z5 or Panasonic Lumix series. While I read reviews that I.S. really helps remove a bit of "shakey hand", I am now wondering if the movement on a boat would be way too much for it and it might over-react giving a worse picture than without it. (Of course I could turn the I.S. off in this case but if I can't use it I wouldn't want to pay for it and add that complexity to the camera, as it is one more point of failure.) If anyone has used such a camera on a boat, I would love to hear your comments. Dave |
On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 06:24:51 GMT, junktin wrote:
Does anyone have practical experience using a consumer grade digital camera with high zoom and Image Stabilization on a sailboat (taking shots of distant scenery or other boats)? I routinely use a Canon SLR (several film and digital models) with their IS lenses. I have used the Canon 100-400 IS as well as their 300 IS lens with both the 1.4x and 2.0x extenders. I also have some shorter Canon IS lenses for these cameras (D30, D60, 10D and 20D). (Anyone want to buy one of the older ones?) My experience is on a power boat rather than a sailboat, but in VERY choppy water. I was covering a tugboat race in the Detroit River from a 45' express cruiser. As you can see from the pictures, there were 6-10' pyramidal waves generated by the crossing wakes of these racing tugs (34' to 120' and 155 to 3400 HP). If the Canon IS lenses can prevent camera shake under these conditions, they are likely to help in almost any circumstances. Nothing can help if you get thrown to the deck, but if you can keep your target nearly centered in the frame, you will likely get a decent exposure. Here are a few of the shots (much reduced in size for web use): http://www.msen.com/~pwmeek/boat/tugs98.html http://www.msen.com/~pwmeek/boat/tugs99.html As you can see, they are grainy from reduction for the web page, but not much camera shake is in evidence. |
On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 06:24:51 GMT, junktin wrote:
Does anyone have practical experience using a consumer grade digital camera with high zoom and Image Stabilization on a sailboat (taking shots of distant scenery or other boats)? I am considering purchase of a newer camera with 10x or 12x zoom to replace my 3x capable camera. It occurred to me that Image Stabilization might be a good thing at these high zooms. I am considering cameras like the Canon S1 IS, Konica-Minolta Z3/Z5 or Panasonic Lumix series. While I read reviews that I.S. really helps remove a bit of "shakey hand", I am now wondering if the movement on a boat would be way too much for it and it might over-react giving a worse picture than without it. (Of course I could turn the I.S. off in this case but if I can't use it I wouldn't want to pay for it and add that complexity to the camera, as it is one more point of failure.) If anyone has used such a camera on a boat, I would love to hear your comments. We have used SLR cameras on sailboats for 20 years now. Until a couple of years ago we limited our focal length to 200 mm and used ISO 400 film (Provia 400F usually). For the last two seasons we have used a Nikkor 80-400 VR lens. VR is Nikon's name for image stabilization. It does allow 400 mm on a boat, and ISO 100 film. Last year we got a D70 digital SLR and use that along with the F5 film camera. We have gotten some spectacular bird pix, as well as shots of a float plane taking off and landing near our stern. Also, my wife got a Canon IS binocular 8X. It works splendidly on the boat. Indeed, I am sorely tempted by the 15X model, although retired I can't afford it. I haven't tried a P&S camera with built-in stabilization, but the technology appears to be pretty well established. Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC Let's Put the XXX back in Xmas |
On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 08:34:30 GMT, "Harvey"
wrote: "junktin" wrote in message news:TeASd.24583$NN.20453@edtnps89... Does anyone have practical experience using a consumer grade digital camera with high zoom and Image Stabilization on a sailboat (taking shots of distant scenery or other boats)? I am considering purchase of a newer camera with 10x or 12x zoom to replace my 3x capable camera. It occurred to me that Image Stabilization might be a good thing at these high zooms. I am considering cameras like the Canon S1 IS, Konica-Minolta Z3/Z5 or Panasonic Lumix series. While I read reviews that I.S. really helps remove a bit of "shakey hand", I am now wondering if the movement on a boat would be way too much for it and it might over-react giving a worse picture than without it. (Of course I could turn the I.S. off in this case but if I can't use it I wouldn't want to pay for it and add that complexity to the camera, as it is one more point of failure.) If anyone has used such a camera on a boat, I would love to hear your comments. Dave The image stabilization is for dampening out vibration due to shaky hands by using gyroscopic stabilization through the use of acceleration detectors and linear motors in the lens or camera. In my opinion it will not compensate at all for the action of a sailboat if you expect it to be used to track a subject as you pitch and roll. It will compensate for some pounding and your shaky hands. Of course you are putting an expensive camera in jeopardy of being damaged by the water. I agree, but it never occurred to me to mount the camera on the boat. I always use it hand-held and try to keep the shot framed. Thus the camera motion is aking to hand shake, not to the larger pitch and roll movements of the boat. Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC Let's Put the XXX back in Xmas |
junktin wrote: Does anyone have practical experience using a consumer grade digital camera with high zoom and Image Stabilization on a sailboat (taking shots of distant scenery or other boats)? I am considering purchase of a newer camera with 10x or 12x zoom to replace my 3x capable camera. It occurred to me that Image Stabilization might be a good thing at these high zooms. I am considering cameras like the Canon S1 IS, Konica-Minolta Z3/Z5 or Panasonic Lumix series. While I read reviews that I.S. really helps remove a bit of "shakey hand", I am now wondering if the movement on a boat would be way too much for it and it might over-react giving a worse picture than without it. (Of course I could turn the I.S. off in this case but if I can't use it I wouldn't want to pay for it and add that complexity to the camera, as it is one more point of failure.) If anyone has used such a camera on a boat, I would love to hear your comments. Dave Dave, I'm a power boater, and I've always enjoyed taking photo's from a boat, their's just so many opertunities for great shots as you know. When I was using my old film camera I would get about one or two good shots out of a whole roll, not good. So I bought a Cannon 5MP camera about two years ago to replace it. I've found that if I use a high speed setting I can get consistantly great shots on the boat, and power boats really shake a lot. And, if the shot doesn't come out the way I want it to, you can see it on the spot, and shoot it again. You might want to try a non-stabilized digital camera first, you may be very satisfied with the results, and save the money you would have spent for an I.S. model. By the way, a 4 MP camera is just fine, I always use mine at a lower setting. Good luck! John |
"junktin" wrote in message news:TeASd.24583$NN.20453@edtnps89... Does anyone have practical experience using a consumer grade digital camera with high zoom and Image Stabilization on a sailboat (taking shots of distant scenery or other boats)? I am considering purchase of a newer camera with 10x or 12x zoom to replace my 3x capable camera. It occurred to me that Image Stabilization might be a good thing at these high zooms. It is a necessity at those higher zooms anyway. Shooting from both boats and airplanes, though, I can tell you that IS will dampen vibrations from things like boat motors, props, and sails, but not from waves. |
Interesting web site and certainly a nice product but even the
smallest/cheapest model is a bit expensive for a camera in the $500 range. Thanks for your interest, though. Dave B. Peg wrote: http://www.ken-lab.com/index.html B~ |
Rodney Myrvaagnes wrote: On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 08:34:30 GMT, "Harvey" wrote: "junktin" wrote in message news:TeASd.24583$NN.20453@edtnps89... Does anyone have practical experience using a consumer grade digital camera with high zoom and Image Stabilization on a sailboat (taking shots of distant scenery or other boats)? The image stabilization is for dampening out vibration due to shaky hands by using gyroscopic stabilization through the use of acceleration detectors and linear motors in the lens or camera. In my opinion it will not compensate at all for the action of a sailboat if you expect it to be used to track a subject as you pitch and roll. It will compensate for some pounding and your shaky hands. Of course you are putting an expensive camera in jeopardy of being damaged by the water. I agree, but it never occurred to me to mount the camera on the boat. I always use it hand-held and try to keep the shot framed. Thus the camera motion is aking to hand shake, not to the larger pitch and roll movements of the boat. Yes, I wouldn't be mounting it directly to the boat, or using a tripod on the rolling boat, so my body's corrections would damp out a lot of the motion of the boat. However I suspect what remains is still too much for the I.S. to cope with. |
Thanks Glenn,
The glidecam product is too pricey for my needs and the horizontrue product seems really only suitable for video cameras (I am considering a still camera). Interesting to read about the products out there, but my needs are as a simple (and poor) amateur. Glenn Ashmore wrote: I have a Sony with digital stabalization. Anything over about 5X zoom really needs a tripod or gimbled/counterbalanced mount. Digital stabalization is not like the mechanical stabalization in some binocs. It helps with hand vibration but does little for major movement. I have a Glidecam 2000 Pro mount (cheap Steadycam) http://www.glidecam.com/ that works well but it takes up a lot of space when working in the cockpit. For a fixed rail mount http://www.horizontrue.com/ works pretty well for keeping a reasonable horizon shooting underway but not very good for scenery shots. Niether will handle a camera over about 6 pounds so a waterproof case is out. |
Thanks Peter,
I enjoyed those web sites just for the content alone, without even thinking about the I. S. issue but it did provide valuable insite to that issue as well. Gee, it is hard not to like tugs! Peter W. Meek wrote: On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 06:24:51 GMT, junktin wrote: Does anyone have practical experience using a consumer grade digital camera with high zoom and Image Stabilization on a sailboat (taking shots of distant scenery or other boats)? I routinely use a Canon SLR (several film and digital models) with their IS lenses. I have used the Canon 100-400 IS as well as their 300 IS lens with both the 1.4x and 2.0x extenders. I also have some shorter Canon IS lenses for these cameras (D30, D60, 10D and 20D). (Anyone want to buy one of the older ones?) My experience is on a power boat rather than a sailboat, but in VERY choppy water. I was covering a tugboat race in the Detroit River from a 45' express cruiser. As you can see from the pictures, there were 6-10' pyramidal waves generated by the crossing wakes of these racing tugs (34' to 120' and 155 to 3400 HP). If the Canon IS lenses can prevent camera shake under these conditions, they are likely to help in almost any circumstances. Nothing can help if you get thrown to the deck, but if you can keep your target nearly centered in the frame, you will likely get a decent exposure. Here are a few of the shots (much reduced in size for web use): http://www.msen.com/~pwmeek/boat/tugs98.html http://www.msen.com/~pwmeek/boat/tugs99.html As you can see, they are grainy from reduction for the web page, but not much camera shake is in evidence. |
junktin wrote:
Does anyone have practical experience using a consumer grade digital camera with high zoom and Image Stabilization on a sailboat (taking shots of distant scenery or other boats)? .... If anyone has used such a camera on a boat, I would love to hear your comments. No experience, so take it with a grain of salt, but the rocking and rolling of a sail boat is fairly low frequency, compared to hand-held shaking. The motion from the boat should be catered for by shutter speed, while the IS will cater for anything that isn't helped by a (e.g.) 1/125 shutter. I'd say it will help. -- Ken Tough |
Ken Tough wrote: junktin wrote: Does anyone have practical experience using a consumer grade digital camera with high zoom and Image Stabilization on a sailboat (taking shots of distant scenery or other boats)? ... If anyone has used such a camera on a boat, I would love to hear your comments. No experience, so take it with a grain of salt, but the rocking and rolling of a sail boat is fairly low frequency, compared to hand-held shaking. The motion from the boat should be catered for by shutter speed, while the IS will cater for anything that isn't helped by a (e.g.) 1/125 shutter. I'd say it will help. Yes, that's a good observation and advice on using a high shutter speed. Since most of my photography would be in good light, I could certainly afford to use a higher shutter speed, and even the moderately priced cameras I am considering will allow me control of that. (instead of having to accept some arbitrary automatic settings.) |
Peter W. Meek wrote:
On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 06:24:51 GMT, junktin wrote: Does anyone have practical experience using a consumer grade digital camera with high zoom and Image Stabilization on a sailboat (taking shots of distant scenery or other boats)? I routinely use a Canon SLR (several film and digital models) with their IS lenses. I have used the Canon 100-400 IS as well as their 300 IS lens with both the 1.4x and 2.0x extenders. I also have some shorter Canon IS lenses for these cameras (D30, D60, 10D and 20D). (Anyone want to buy one of the older ones?) I've used a Canon SLR (film) with a 300 F4 IS with 1.4x extender too. It allowed me to get shots that I couldn't get in rough water with my 70-200 F4 non stabilized lens. Sorry I can't add more about the inexpensive IS digitals but I suspect they will help _some_ with hand motions and small boat motions. Evan Gatehouse |
Prter & Capt. John; Glad to see that you two responded, seem to be
the only folks the responded that had used IS as of this time. I've used and have nothing to add. Roe "Peter W. Meek" wrote: On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 06:24:51 GMT, junktin wrote: Does anyone have practical experience using a consumer grade digital camera with high zoom and Image Stabilization on a sailboat (taking shots of distant scenery or other boats)? I routinely use a Canon SLR (several film and digital models) with their IS lenses. I have used the Canon 100-400 IS as well as their 300 IS lens with both the 1.4x and 2.0x extenders. I also have some shorter Canon IS lenses for these cameras (D30, D60, 10D and 20D). (Anyone want to buy one of the older ones?) My experience is on a power boat rather than a sailboat, but in VERY choppy water. I was covering a tugboat race in the Detroit River from a 45' express cruiser. As you can see from the pictures, there were 6-10' pyramidal waves generated by the crossing wakes of these racing tugs (34' to 120' and 155 to 3400 HP). If the Canon IS lenses can prevent camera shake under these conditions, they are likely to help in almost any circumstances. Nothing can help if you get thrown to the deck, but if you can keep your target nearly centered in the frame, you will likely get a decent exposure. Here are a few of the shots (much reduced in size for web use): http://www.msen.com/~pwmeek/boat/tugs98.html http://www.msen.com/~pwmeek/boat/tugs99.html As you can see, they are grainy from reduction for the web page, but not much camera shake is in evidence. |
In article TeASd.24583$NN.20453@edtnps89, junktin
wrote: Does anyone have practical experience using a consumer grade digital camera with high zoom and Image Stabilization on a sailboat (taking shots of distant scenery or other boats)? In my experience, stabilization is not required. I have the Olympus C-700, 10x optical, and shoot at full zoom regularly as we sail along. Shake isn't a problem. More often, my trouble is getting things framed right as we bounce along. -- Jere Lull Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD) Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
junktin wrote:
Does anyone have practical experience using a consumer grade digital camera with high zoom and Image Stabilization on a sailboat (taking shots of distant scenery or other boats)? Jere Lull wrote: In my experience, stabilization is not required. I have the Olympus C-700, 10x optical, and shoot at full zoom regularly as we sail along. Shake isn't a problem. More often, my trouble is getting things framed right as we bounce along. You must be a lot better at it than we are. I find image stabilization helpful... not miraculous, as some people seem to expect, but it helps. This pic was taken with a relatively inexpensive ($450 all up) 3.2 megapixel digital camera with 12X zoom and optical image stabilization, range is a little over 1/4 mile http://community.webshots.com/photo/...31774987MikhhQ Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
Interesting to hear that you have had good success in exactly the
conditions I would be shooting in. (I assume your successes are in bright light to allow fast shutter speeds.) Thanks. Jere Lull wrote: In article TeASd.24583$NN.20453@edtnps89, junktin wrote: Does anyone have practical experience using a consumer grade digital camera with high zoom and Image Stabilization on a sailboat (taking shots of distant scenery or other boats)? In my experience, stabilization is not required. I have the Olympus C-700, 10x optical, and shoot at full zoom regularly as we sail along. Shake isn't a problem. More often, my trouble is getting things framed right as we bounce along. |
Doug,
Thanks for the link to this interesting photo. What make/model was the camera? Dave DSK wrote: junktin wrote: Does anyone have practical experience using a consumer grade digital camera with high zoom and Image Stabilization on a sailboat (taking shots of distant scenery or other boats)? Jere Lull wrote: In my experience, stabilization is not required. I have the Olympus C-700, 10x optical, and shoot at full zoom regularly as we sail along. Shake isn't a problem. More often, my trouble is getting things framed right as we bounce along. You must be a lot better at it than we are. I find image stabilization helpful... not miraculous, as some people seem to expect, but it helps. This pic was taken with a relatively inexpensive ($450 all up) 3.2 megapixel digital camera with 12X zoom and optical image stabilization, range is a little over 1/4 mile http://community.webshots.com/photo/...31774987MikhhQ Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
junktin wrote:
Doug, Thanks for the link to this interesting photo. What make/model was the camera? You're welcome. It's a Panasonic DMC-FZ1 Last years model, which is one reason why it's inexpensive ;) http://community.webshots.com/photo/...31774987MikhhQ DSK |
In article 34qXd.16646$KI2.5830@clgrps12, junktin
wrote: Interesting to hear that you have had good success in exactly the conditions I would be shooting in. (I assume your successes are in bright light to allow fast shutter speeds.) Thanks. Jere Lull wrote: In article TeASd.24583$NN.20453@edtnps89, junktin wrote: Does anyone have practical experience using a consumer grade digital camera with high zoom and Image Stabilization on a sailboat (taking shots of distant scenery or other boats)? In my experience, stabilization is not required. I have the Olympus C-700, 10x optical, and shoot at full zoom regularly as we sail along. Shake isn't a problem. More often, my trouble is getting things framed right as we bounce along. Yeah, we're normally shooting in good light, but that's not required. My last emulsion camera is a Minolta SRT 101, pretty much all manual and still good enough for professional work. I'm constantly astounded when I ask the Olympus digital to do something in low light, as the results always exceed my expectations. I have a monopod, but rarely use it with the Olympus since it's so good in "questionable" light. It has to be pretty dark before the Olympus needs an exposure beyond my hand-held capability. I haven't found a shot that required the absolute stability of a tripid. -- Jere Lull Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD) Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
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