, a research ship off the coasts of Washington and Oregon during the
entire months of November and December (first time I "lost my
cookies" in over 30 years at sea), and numerous yachts and ships in
gales, I have two bits of wisdom to pass on:


Was that the "Cayuse"? I've heard more people say that was the only
ship they ever got sick on than any other. She was here in Maine for
a while but I don't know where she is now.

--

Roger Long

Was that the "Cayuse"? I've heard more people say that was the only ship
they ever got sick on than any other. She was here in Maine for a while
but I don't know where she is now.

Hi Roger,

I'm guessing your asking why one ship might be more prone to causing
seasickness than another?

There are alot of determining factors, to name a few (I'm sure there are
others, these are the ones that come to mind):

Seas - The most obvious reason. The seas off the Washington / Oregon coast
during the winter is about as bad as it gets. Gales hit every three days
(like clockwork) and the seas are big and steep. I've been in bigger seas,
but these seemed more uncomfortable.

Vessel Motion - A vessel's size, obviously, has a big effect on it's motion
at sea. Additionally, a more stable vessel will roll faster, thus making
the motion more uncomfortable. The further you go from the vessel's center
of gravity, the more motion you'll be subjected to. Yes, some ships are
just more uncomfortable in a seaway than others, and the research ship I was
on had a reputation for being a "puking machine". Since most of my waking
hours were spent on the bridge, some 30-40 feet above sea level, it was a
pretty "fun" ride. Below decks (in my bunk), it didn't seem quite as bad.
The Irony was that our mission was to count whales, but because the weather
was so bad, most of the scientists never left their bunks. Incidently, most
cruise ships have "roll stabilizers" and "bilge keels". These usually do
alot to reduce the vessel's roll.

Health - If you're otherwise ill (or tired), sea sickness will definitely
hit you faster. In my case, I had recently recovered from an inner ear
infection, which I'm sure had alot to do with why I became sick.

Smells - I know certain noxious smells trigger sea sickness in some people.

Psychology - I am one of those that believe that if you think about it too
much (or watch other folks that are sick) eventually you will get sick.
Consequently, I do everything I can -not- to think about it.

I know nothing about the circumstances with the cruise ship and students
that everyone is talking about. I only caught a few seconds of the video
that appeared on TV, so I'm in no position to judge or criticize, so I won't
even try. The last I heard, she was docked here in Honolulu.

Two other points on seasickness that are worth mentioning:

One is that the seasickness pills I took while working off Oregon (Dramamine
I think) worked like wonders for me.

The other is that extended seasickness can be a -very- dangerous medical
condition. If you (or one of your crew) should become sick, proper rest,
meals and lots of fluids are -crucial-.

Here's wishing everyone fair winds and following seas!


--
Paul

=-----------------------------------=
renewontime dot com
FREE email reminder service for licensed mariners
http://www.renewontime.com
=-----------------------------------=

No, I was asking which particular ship you were referring to. I'm
primarily involved with oceanographic vessel design so I get to deal
with motion and comfort questions a lot. I also hear lots of
scuttlebutt and that particular vessel was legendary. Even after she
came to Maine, people said the same thing about her.

--

Roger Long



"renewontime dot com" wrote in message
...
Was that the "Cayuse"? I've heard more people say that was the
only ship they ever got sick on than any other. She was here in
Maine for a while but I don't know where she is now.

Hi Roger,

I'm guessing your asking why one ship might be more prone to causing
seasickness than another?

There are alot of determining factors, to name a few (I'm sure there
are others, these are the ones that come to mind):

Seas - The most obvious reason. The seas off the Washington /
Oregon coast during the winter is about as bad as it gets. Gales
hit every three days (like clockwork) and the seas are big and
steep. I've been in bigger seas, but these seemed more
uncomfortable.

Vessel Motion - A vessel's size, obviously, has a big effect on it's
motion at sea. Additionally, a more stable vessel will roll faster,
thus making the motion more uncomfortable. The further you go from
the vessel's center of gravity, the more motion you'll be subjected
to. Yes, some ships are just more uncomfortable in a seaway than
others, and the research ship I was on had a reputation for being a
"puking machine". Since most of my waking hours were spent on the
bridge, some 30-40 feet above sea level, it was a pretty "fun" ride.
Below decks (in my bunk), it didn't seem quite as bad. The Irony was
that our mission was to count whales, but because the weather was so
bad, most of the scientists never left their bunks. Incidently,
most cruise ships have "roll stabilizers" and "bilge keels". These
usually do alot to reduce the vessel's roll.

Health - If you're otherwise ill (or tired), sea sickness will
definitely hit you faster. In my case, I had recently recovered
from an inner ear infection, which I'm sure had alot to do with why
I became sick.

Smells - I know certain noxious smells trigger sea sickness in some
people.

Psychology - I am one of those that believe that if you think about
it too much (or watch other folks that are sick) eventually you will
get sick. Consequently, I do everything I can -not- to think about
it.

I know nothing about the circumstances with the cruise ship and
students that everyone is talking about. I only caught a few
seconds of the video that appeared on TV, so I'm in no position to
judge or criticize, so I won't even try. The last I heard, she was
docked here in Honolulu.

Two other points on seasickness that are worth mentioning:

One is that the seasickness pills I took while working off Oregon
(Dramamine I think) worked like wonders for me.

The other is that extended seasickness can be a -very- dangerous
medical condition. If you (or one of your crew) should become sick,
proper rest, meals and lots of fluids are -crucial-.

Here's wishing everyone fair winds and following seas!


--
Paul

=-----------------------------------=
renewontime dot com
FREE email reminder service for licensed mariners
http://www.renewontime.com
=-----------------------------------=

No, I was asking which particular ship you were referring to.

Sorry Roger, I missunderstood.

The ship I was on was the NOAA ship McArthur.

--
Paul

=-----------------------------------=
renewontime dot com
FREE email reminder service for licensed mariners
http://www.renewontime.com
=-----------------------------------=

renewontime dot com wrote:


Hi Roger,

I'm guessing your asking why one ship might be more prone to causing
seasickness than another?

There are alot of determining factors, to name a few (I'm sure there are
others, these are the ones that come to mind):

Seas - The most obvious reason. The seas off the Washington / Oregon coast
during the winter is about as bad as it gets. Gales hit every three days
(like clockwork) and the seas are big and steep. I've been in bigger seas,
but these seemed more uncomfortable.

Seas and how a particular ship/boat handles them, vary as to what feels
good or bad, depending on size, load condition, swell period, etc.


Vessel Motion - A vessel's size, obviously, has a big effect on it's motion
at sea. Additionally, a more stable vessel will roll faster, thus making
the motion more uncomfortable. snip

Couple all this with where are you working/quartered on the vessel.
Surprisingly, I've noted that "accommodation" forward, tends to affect
more people, than "accom" aft.

BTW, Bilge Keels are great additions .... funny part is, that their best
reduction in rolling ( note I said "rolling" ) is a mere 10%.
As for blowing out windows/portholes.... heading is immaterial, vessel
size is immaterial.... the right sea at the right moment, now, THAT'S
important.

otn

over the knee, did you REALLY intend to say that waves on the bow of a ship can
blow out the windows on the stern?

If that is not what you intended, just why did you say it?

geesh.

From: otnmbrd
Date: 2/4/2005 8:59 P.M. Eastern Standard Time
Message-id: t

renewontime dot com wrote:


Hi Roger,

I'm guessing your asking why one ship might be more prone to causing
seasickness than another?

There are alot of determining factors, to name a few (I'm sure there are
others, these are the ones that come to mind):

Seas - The most obvious reason. The seas off the Washington / Oregon coast

during the winter is about as bad as it gets. Gales hit every three days
(like clockwork) and the seas are big and steep. I've been in bigger seas,

but these seemed more uncomfortable.

Seas and how a particular ship/boat handles them, vary as to what feels
good or bad, depending on size, load condition, swell period, etc.


Vessel Motion - A vessel's size, obviously, has a big effect on it's motion

at sea. Additionally, a more stable vessel will roll faster, thus making
the motion more uncomfortable. snip

Couple all this with where are you working/quartered on the vessel.
Surprisingly, I've noted that "accommodation" forward, tends to affect
more people, than "accom" aft.

BTW, Bilge Keels are great additions .... funny part is, that their best
reduction in rolling ( note I said "rolling" ) is a mere 10%.
As for blowing out windows/portholes.... heading is immaterial, vessel
size is immaterial.... the right sea at the right moment, now, THAT'S
important.

otn

Subject: Can a 45' sailboat survive a 50' wave ?
From: (JAXAshby)
Date: 2/5/2005 5:06 A.M. Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

over the knee, did you REALLY intend to say that waves on the bow of a ship
can
blow out the windows on the stern?

If that is not what you intended, just why did you say it?


I see you're still making stupid interpretations of what you think people said.
Just for fun, because you won't understand it and never will experience it, and
although otn didn't say it, .... yes.,..... seas coming over the bow can break
windows on the stern.

Shen

BTW, Bilge Keels are great additions .... funny part is, that their best
reduction in rolling ( note I said "rolling" ) is a mere 10%.

The way I understand it, bilge keels -increase- the rolling period (the time
from heeling on one side to the other), and I'd guess that 10% is about
right. I've never worked (or sailed for that matter) on a cruise ship
(well... not entirely true... I was a cadet aboard a retired US Lines ship),
but I understand their "active stabilizers" do a better job at keeping the
vessel flat.

Incidently (and we're way off topic), the most comfortable riding ship I
ever worked on was the RV Kilo Moana, a SWATH (Submerged Waterplane Attached
Twin Hull). You could literally leave your cup of coffee on a table in 20
foot seas and it wouldn't budge. SWATH's are actually -more- comfortable
with seas on the beam, we frequently lied abeam to do scientific work.

As for blowing out windows/portholes.... heading is immaterial, vessel
size is immaterial.... the right sea at the right moment, now, THAT'S
important.

Good point. Mother Nature is rarely nice enough to give us seas from
only -one- direction. Depending on your vessel's heading, your wake can
reflect or refract off the side of your hull, interact with a sea and send
it in nearly any direction at all.

On the ships I've served on, all portholes up to the main deck had
"deadlights", heavy, solid metal covers for when the weather gets nasty.
When it got nasty, we just dogged them down. Never had one fail (not to say
it isn't possible though).

But things are probably different on the modern cruise ships. I've berthed
near a number of cruise ships, and one I remember in particular had "sliding
glass doors" to cabins above the main deck! You wonder what the designer
was thinking...


All the best,

--
Paul

=-----------------------------------=
renewontime dot com
FREE email reminder service for licensed mariners
http://www.renewontime.com
=-----------------------------------=

renewontime dot com wrote:

a SWATH (Submerged Waterplane Attached
Twin Hull).

SWATH: SMALL Waterplane AREA Twin Hull

Rick

renewontime dot com wrote:
BTW, Bilge Keels are great additions .... funny part is, that their best
reduction in rolling ( note I said "rolling" ) is a mere 10%.


The way I understand it, bilge keels -increase- the rolling period (the time
from heeling on one side to the other), and I'd guess that 10% is about
right. I've never worked (or sailed for that matter) on a cruise ship
(well... not entirely true... I was a cadet aboard a retired US Lines ship),
but I understand their "active stabilizers" do a better job at keeping the
vessel flat.

Bilge keels have no effect on roll period, only rolling. Roll period is
determined by GM. The higher the GM, the shorter the roll period.
Active (fin) and passive (Flume) have a far greater ability to reduce
rolling. G probably the best system includes all three.


Incidently (and we're way off topic), the most comfortable riding ship I
ever worked on was the RV Kilo Moana, a SWATH (Submerged Waterplane Attached
Twin Hull). You could literally leave your cup of coffee on a table in 20
foot seas and it wouldn't budge. SWATH's are actually -more- comfortable
with seas on the beam, we frequently lied abeam to do scientific work.

For most conditions, these ARE considered about the most comfortable
surface types, though reports I've heard say the can be pretty wet in
beam seas and quite noisy in head seas.



As for blowing out windows/portholes.... heading is immaterial, vessel
size is immaterial.... the right sea at the right moment, now, THAT'S
important.


Good point. Mother Nature is rarely nice enough to give us seas from
only -one- direction. Depending on your vessel's heading, your wake can
reflect or refract off the side of your hull, interact with a sea and send
it in nearly any direction at all.

On the ships I've served on, all portholes up to the main deck had
"deadlights", heavy, solid metal covers for when the weather gets nasty.
When it got nasty, we just dogged them down. Never had one fail (not to say
it isn't possible though).

On the widely viewed picture of that Sea River (x-ATTRANSCO) tanker in
rough seas, the porthole which was taken out, was on the Boat Deck.
Having taken that ship through similar conditions, it was either bad
luck or age, G which caused that blow out. I always tell people to
look at the foremast on the foc'sle and the deck lights at the top of
that mast. On at least one of those ships (class) you'll find the
brackets which hold those lights, bent up, from seas coming aboard the bow.


But things are probably different on the modern cruise ships. I've berthed
near a number of cruise ships, and one I remember in particular had "sliding
glass doors" to cabins above the main deck! You wonder what the designer
was thinking...

G Aside from the fact of the type of glass used and
construction/location above the water, they probably considered that a
cruise ship will normally do everything it can to stay clear of most
serious weather.


otn